Metho. Spirits -vs- "Isopropol Alcohol"

IVI on 19/03/2015 - 05:17
Last edited 19/03/2015 - 05:38

Before moving to Oz, I knew only "Isopropol Alcohol" (a.k.a. "rubbing alcohol").

Only here did I learn of "Metho.Spirits" (ie, just after asking to buy some "Isopropol Alcohol" - at which point - someone suggested Metho' as the local equivalent, & I've been buying the stuff ever since).

So, on Wed., I noticed small, costly (atomizer-) bottles of "Isopropol Alcohol" beside the larger, 1 L bottles of Metho', at Bunnings.

(Is it Bunnings' high prices -or- is this just another case of "we don't make it here [any more], so, importers charge whatever they like for IA"?

Of course, no one there knew what the difference(s) were between the two, so I had to settle for reading labels for a hint of Ingredient(s):

  • IA was 100% of one substance (Isoproponol? from memory), %

  • MS was. 95% (something, maybe Ethanol? again, from memory), but no other ingredients were listed…

A Bunnings lass told me that MS had once taken car paint away (or significantly damaged its appearance), is, when inadvertantly used.

Now, the common use of IA - overseas, where it was sold cheap, in quantities not unlike the 1 L bottles Bunnings sells MS in - was on skin.

(This may also be so, in China or in its "beauty industry"… I once noticed a Chinese tourist using our MS after washing her face (& maybe before applying a moisturiser?); she told me she planned to enter a high-stakes beauty comletition, in Hong Kong, when she got back to China.)

Having heard ML damaged car paint, I'm now wondering if it's a mistake to use it on the skin.

(Eg, an Outback couple "swore by" MS, eg, as a "cure" for Times ("athlete's foot"); their method was to soak the foot/feet in a bath of pure MS, like one might soak feet in "Epsom salt" solution, at least in past.

So, who here knows MS & IA? What's in MS's last, unlisted 5% of contents? Is either one really good for topical use on the skin? Why is IA so COSTLY in AU?

"Is there a Chemist in the audience?" :-)

Let us know what you know about these products.

PS During my conversation with the folks at Bunning's, someone mentioned having seen MS in the refrigerator, at some smaller Outback food shops.
(I got the impression, that it wasn't there to reduce the risk of combustion, but so that some alcohol-affected, first nations people would find it more suitable for drinking(!). Don't drink either one!)

Home & Garden

Comments

  • IVI on 19/03/2015 - 05:43
    -1

    Here's an answer from online:

    "Best Answer: The only problem with methylated spirits is that it is an acohol based product. This being the case it will dry your skin, which in turn causes you to produce a bit more oil which will clog pores producing the pimples you see left behind. The recommendation is to put away any products with alcohol as an ingredient and provide your skin with vitamins and minerals that may be missing."

  • IVI on 19/03/2015 - 05:49
    -1

    For our friends in other parts of the world who have difficulty locating this product, here are some ideas you can try.

    Rubbing alcohol has in past been used as a cheap form of alcohol, which is why it is banned in some places or has tight restrictions. The additives in the product make it taste terrible and can cause unsavory reactions, so it is really not recommended to drink. That’s why some countries have actual bans in place, or price it high, or sell it through a chemist or pharmacist. You’ll have to investigate your local rules and regulations as they pertain to rubbing alcohol, surgical spirits or isopropyl alcohol.

    With that, here are some ideas of where you can go to find rubbing alcohol in countries where it is not readily available. Check your local hardware store, or a store where they sell items for home improvement (the North American equivalent is Home Depot). Check your local pharmacy or drug store and speak the pharmacist or chemist to see if it is an item they keep behind the counter. Large stores referred to as ‘big box’ or ‘hypermarkets’ may carry the product as well. Check the first aid section to start. Art supply shops may carry the product, as it has also been used to clean paint brushes. Surprisingly, there are many forums online where people talk about where to find rubbing alcohol around the world, so maybe key “where to buy rubbing alcohol+country” in to your search bar and see what comes up. If you still can’t find any, consider asking a friend or family member who can easily access it to bring you some the next time they visit. Ebay and Amazon also carry it, so you can investigate those options as well.

  • retiredfeline on 19/03/2015 - 05:52
    +2

    Methylated spirits is ethanol mixed with foul tasting substances so that it cannot be drunk. Perhaps a dye too to warn off people. Otherwise the ethanol would be subject to excise tax. Isopropyl alcohol is a different compound, look at its molecular structure. Can't comment on their usages for skin.

  • Ughhh on 19/03/2015 - 06:18

    There should be a msds for both products. I'm pretty sure she's ruining her skin in the long term. Some people believe in all sorts of crazy stuff just to be beautiful.

  • mskeggs on 19/03/2015 - 07:13
    +1

    As greenpossum says, metho is almost pure ethanol (drinking alcohol) with a substance added to make it unpalatable to drink - which is why it avoids the duty tax payable on alcoholic drinks. See this wikipedia article for info:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

    Isopropyl alcohol is a different substance. This is what is called "rubbing alcohol" in the USA, and I presume Asian countries. It is used for sterilising things, amongst other industrial uses. More info here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol

    Either product might be used in hand sanitiser, and both could applied to the skin without concern for toxicity. Whether you would want to soak your feet in hand sanitizer is up to you, I guess.

    In Australia, iso-propyl alcohol is available in a couple of products in the chemist shop. I think those products are US brands where it seems the common form of denatured alcohol. It is also available as a very pure solvent from Jaycar (and presumably Bunnings?) for use cleaning electronic circuit boards and tape player heads. In those applications it's main benefit is that it evaporates completely leaving no residue.

    My conclusion is that:
    - in the USA people make use of alcohol based disinfectants more than we do in Australia. We traditionally have used a product like Dettol (which amongst other things does contain isopropanol!) for stuff like wound care.
    - for uses where more volume is necessary, Aussies use metho. I don't believe there is anything added as part of the denaturing process to make it toxic for external application.
    - there seem to be a few products that contain isopropyl alcohol these days. I think this is in response to consumers from overseas seeking it out, but I don't think there is any reason to prefer it to metho.
    - I don't have a beauty regime that involves applying alcohol to the skin, so I can't comment on that, however, I would suggest any alcohol would tend to dry the skin. Maybe that is the use? To help oily complexions/acne?

    • Mr Wowtrousers on 19/03/2015 - 09:37

      One way to treat zits without squeezing is to dry them out. A dab of IPA will help that along.

      I also get quite oily skin on my face (occasional pimple) and a quick wipe with IPA after lunch cleans me up and makes me feel refreshed. It hasn't caused any worsening of my skin.

  • justpressplay on 19/03/2015 - 07:42

    Ha! I too came from overseas and found myself looking for rubbing alcohol and was unable to find it in any of the usual spots or quantities. I used to pick up 500ml at the dollar store for, well, a buck and tax. Anyway… Last weekend was the first time I noticed the small spray bottle of IA in Bunnings and likewise balked at the price - which I quickly put down to a convenience tax. Thinking back, the first substitute I used in Aussie was cheap vodka, though we've been using MS ever since (always as a general-purpose cleaner and disinfectant) and although I did give it some thought initially, I'm pretty sure the differences between IA and Metho are negligible (for my purposes). Rather than do any hard research on the subject I'll stick to the anecdotal nature of the post when I say that I have a strong recollection of a 9th grade science teacher warning the class that there were additives in the rubbing alcohol that made it undrinkable and would cause blindness. I suspect greenpossum is right in making the link to taxation. As for someone chilling either explicitly for human consumption, I'd much rather assume this was done to prevent evaporation in the extreme heat. Thinking about contract with skin I'd imagine soaking a large surface area in a great quantity may result in some form of intoxication; though, alcohol in many forms is found in all manner of cosmetics and lotions no doubt for its evaporative properties (which does take some surface moisture along with it). Cool post, thanks for sharing.

  • phluffed on 22/03/2015 - 11:08

    I use IPA for work. 20Ltr drum is about $120 from most wholesale cleaning suppliers. I prefer IPA over metho or white spirits or any of those types of products as it doesn't leave a residue.
    As for the skin, prolonged exposure on my hands leaves the fingers dry with cracking around the nails, but nothing too serious.

  • hsk on 29/10/2015 - 23:17

    my daughter is using this for craft and her girls brigade wants to get some at a good price as the $ charged in Woolies makes it expensive. Anyone in Sydney near Camden suggest a place to get at a cheap price in a large quantity… say 5+ litres?

  • Supersean on 24/11/2015 - 03:42

    Check out eBay. 5ltr isopropyl alcohol usually goes for between $35-45.

    For larger quantities contact a chemical supplier like Recochem who sell under the Diggers brand. They should be able to point you to a supplier.

    • IVI on 25/11/2015 - 01:58

      How to be sure that the product isn't mislabeled Metho'?

      Is there a test to distinguish the two,
      that one can perform at home?

      • Supersean on 25/11/2015 - 03:19

        One of the easiest ways is to ask for a Material Safety Data Sheet (msds) from the supplier. They are generally obliged to supply one on request and it will have the ingredients listed on it.

        Another way to test it yourself is to check the specific gravity of the liquid using a hydrometer. Pure isopropyl alcohol will have a specific gravity of 785.40 kg/m3 @ 20°c while methylated spirits will generally be heavier at between 787-790 kg/m3 depending on the ethanol/methenol ratio.

        Hydrometers are usually fairly cheaply available at auto supply shops (supercheap/autopro/autobarn) where they are used to measure electrolyte levels in lead acid batteries, or from home brew shops where they are used to indicate alcohol content.

        • IVI on 31/03/2016 - 23:02

          Thanks for that… Are cheap Hydrometers
          accurate enough to distinguish nearly-
          contiguous ranges of values?

  • leileiair on 25/03/2016 - 01:04

    Late to the party but wanted to add a bit for people who thought they might have a go at getting drunk of this crap.
    TL;DR see bold bits.

    Methylated spirits is 95% ethanol which is the same as the alcohol you drink, and 5% methanol which is toxic because your body converts it to formaldehyde and then other compounds which cause serious damage to the nervous system, blindness, and eventually coma, death when injested, etc.It is added because it tastes seriously bad and obviously because it will kill you if you drink enough and this is because people used to buy ethanol at the shop and drink it (they still drink metho in some parts of Oz) and as mskeggs said for tax reasons.

    Like most types of alcohol, it is a great solvent so you can use it to remove glue residue, ink stains, lift grease, sanitize and lots of other things involving cleaning. It acts as a solvent on the crap that is clogging pores, and leaves your skin stripped of gunk but also very dry! Good for white/blackheads and oily skin, bad for directly open wounds where it can get into bloodstream.

  • elcheapoinoz on 20/05/2016 - 14:54

    I'm quite late. But metho (at least in aus) does not have methanol. That is the original formulation during prohibition (where people died because of it) and why the name stuck. They want to discourage people drinking it, not kill them.
    It is ethanol+ stuff that makes it taste horrid

  • Boshy888 on 18/06/2016 - 09:22

    Curiosity prompted me to do a search on some MSDS sheets for products sold in Australia and one was pure methynol and the other one had:

    Ethyl alcohol up to 95.8 - 99.8% Denaturant <0.1% Water - varies from 4.2 - 0.2
    Denaturants may be one or more of the following: Methyl isobutyl ketone, fluorescein, diethyl phthalate, tertiary butyl alcohol, brucine sulphate or denatonium benzoate.

    One had a much larger % of water and less than 1% denaturant
    One had 98% ethanol and 2% methanol
    One had 95% ethanol and 5% water

    Going to try the metho, acetone, ammonia and bleach with creamy cleanser a go and see which one works best for cleaning what looks to be hair dye stains but we can't be sure because it isn't our shower.

    • mskeggs on 19/10/2016 - 16:43
      +1

      I presume the single comment from this account is because they did mix ammonia and bleach in their quest to remove hair dye:

      "It is also a reminder that the mixing of bleach with some household cleansers (e.g. toilet bowl cleansers that contain acid) can generate chlorine gas, and mixing bleach with ammonia generates toxic chloramine vapor. Mixing bleach and ammonia is extremely dangerous, since toxic vapors will be produced."

      https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-mix-bleach-and-a…

  • Hogg on 19/10/2016 - 16:32

    Would I be correct in saying that while Methylated spirits can be used as a disinfectant, it would not be wise to use it for disinfecting medical lines due to the methanol?

    Isopropyl alcohol would be the safe option?

    • mskeggs on 19/10/2016 - 16:41

      From Wikipedia on isopropyl:
      Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or skin absorption; therefore, well-ventilated areas and protective gloves are recommended. Around 15 g of isopropyl alcohol can have a toxic effect on a 70 kg human if left untreated. However, it is not nearly as toxic as methanol or ethylene glycol.

      I don't think either would be particularly suitable for medical grade use, that is why there is medical grade ethanol. Note that my opinion is not due to the specific toxicity of the fluids, but that non-medical grade could have all sorts of contaminants. But in an emergency first aid situation, either would be preferable to no disinfectant, I would think.

      • Hogg on 19/10/2016 - 18:02

        What about "hospital grade" 70% Isopropyl. For use of disinfecting water lines?

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