Hi all, just wondering if anyone had any tricks or even contacts of a lawyer who can help.
Basically, was involved in a head-on collision with a car last year while on my bike. Stacked it, and went flying across his bonnet and bounced off the windshield. Car was insured, I was not.
Fast forward 12 months later, I'll got a $10k bill in the mail from the other party's debt collection agents. Expensive I know… Audit TT or something like that..
Physics…
It's the vibe…
Hmmm, that kind of resonates with me…
No, it's the mabo
And can I just say how disenchanted I am with the legal system…
Blame Tray 2 on the photocopier
just wondering if anyone had any tricks or even contacts of a lawyer who can help.
Depends what you are actually trying to accomplish? You haven't said.
i assume you have been to court?
I see you're in Sydney, do you have membership with Bicycle NSW or Cycling Australia? Both of these have insurance coverage for when you are riding.
If the accident was your fault there is very little you can do. But it's little better if the accident wasn't your fault, because it's you V's the insurance company. I had a friend hit while riding (who incidentally works for a large insurer!) and he was slugged by the driver's insurance company for the damage the driver did to their car hitting him in the bike lane. It was a huge year-long fight to stop the insurance company chasing him.
https://cyclingtips.com/2011/03/bicycle-insurance-australia/
Most decent Home Insurance - it's actually the Liability cover attaching to Home Contents in this case - will have cover for using a bicycle
OP - did you have Home Contents insurance at the time of the accident?
Make a claim
I think that I might be at fault. I'm looking to see what people do to challenge the claim for the purposes of reducing amount claimed. In this case, it is substantial… European sports car…. $xx,xxx 5 digits claim.
But yes, lessons learned I do have insurance now.
$10,000, ouch can't work out how you do that much damage and live. Given you were probably seriously injured I assume there was a police report? that should clearly establish who was at fault.
At a minimum, you need to request an itemised bill from the insurer. They need to provide an explanation of all costs they are claiming from you.
I'm looking to see what people do to challenge the claim for the purposes of reducing amount claimed.
Absolutely the right thing to do in this case…insurers are all price gouging scumbags.
Remember, they are not claiming actual costs, they are profiteering on your misfortune (and lack of foresight, as you would agree). The real cost of repairs would have been much, much lower; and had they fronted that nonsense up to another insurer they'd have been laughed at raucously.
Just call a few solicitors until you feel comfortable with one to make representations on your behalf; they can not only advise you of the most appropriate strategy in your unique (read: financial) circumstances. They can also tell the insurer in polite legalese to pull their heads in, lest they work hard to get nothing! ;)
Party at fault pays….. Hence why you have a 'bill'.
So ducks & platypus are also always at fault…good to know! ;)
That's not true, I have been chased for damages for a car accident and it went to court & I was found not at fault.
Huh? so you went to court and found not at fault… so didn't pay?
So……. isn't that what I said!? Party at fault pays, you had been found not at fault, so didn't pay.
@Level380: No you said -
Party at fault pays….. Hence why you have a 'bill'.
Just because you receive a bill doesn't mean you pay. I received lots of bills, demands for payment and numerous calls from the insurance company and then debt collectors but believed I wasn't at fault so didn't pay.
You went flying onto someone's bonnet/windscreen and you think it's your fault?
Once I was on a straight road with a T-Junction coming. A car came to the junction, didn't see me and stuck half his car out before he realised.
I would have gone over his bonnet, that would not have been my fault.
@Yamai: I haven't collided head on with a car yet and gone flying across the windscreen yet, so working out good so far. I also don't owe anyone 10k.
I was walking my bike across a zebra crossing and a distracted mum didnt see the zebra crossing and hit me at 60km/hr. I went across her bonnet, into the windscreen and up into the air. Landed further down the road! Her insurance company also thought it was my fault and sent me a bill. Police on the other hand thought it was her fault and sent her a summons to appear in court. As another poster mentioned, I used my home insurance to deal with her lawyers. I am pretty sure I wasn't at fault although i did go across her bonnet!
Your situation is different fron OP's.
head-on collision with a car last year while on my bike
That implies that OP was in motion while on the bike.
I wanna know how you got into a head on collision with a car. Were you going the wrong way or was he? You're lucky you're alive.
Sounds like you never came to an agreement on who was at fault. In case of a head on collision, it is kind of difficult to have any ambiguity. The only circumstances that I can think of where the cyclist might be at fault involve the cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road or running a red light.
Another person on the road without insurance, at fault in an accident and trying to get out of it.
Why does there always seem to be a trend of threads on ozbargain? It seems that as soon as there is a popular forum topic suddenly another 10 the same appear soon after.
Insurance cost money, tight arses don't like to spend money. Therefore the circle of life continues and these sorts of threads keep popping up.
i tight arses that has insurance i allways have.
Or maybe 99% of people are not aware of insurance for cycling…
I notice you and everyone else who mentioned insurance hasn't provided any links…
..
thanks,
This thread has made me interested and I'll be talking to friends about this as well
@Baghern: a quick Google search will bring up many others.
I don't own a bike so no idea on which insurance to use.
My main point was that are all of these threads genuine or are they generated by the mods to get more clicks?
My main point was that are all of these threads genuine or are they generated by the mods to get more clicks?
I only ever see the threads when I am already on the site - how would the threads bring people to the site?
yes, but theres this thing called scale…
Ozbargain forums don't have that scale to take advantage
Insurance for cycling? Never even crossed my mind so you are right on the money there. I used to cycle a fair bit when I lived overseas but not anymore. In fact now that I'm forced to drive everywhere I find cyclists really annoying and a hazard to the rest of the traffic.
If you "need" ctp insurance to cycle I'm happy I don't even have a bike anymore.
As others have mentioned many people are covered under their home contents insurance for legal liabilities.
Also, membership of a number of cycling organisations includes third party insurance.
e.g.
Bicycle Network
Bicycle NSW
Cycling Australia
A decnet Home insurance policy will include Liability cover for using a bicycle on the road
Ironically it is more likely to protect the damage you do to others (the OP's Audi for instance) than your own bike
(SPorts equipment damaged in use is typically excluded)
TLDR
Specific bike insurance is good if you have an expensive pushie and you want it covered but you probably don't need bike insurance to cover third party damage if you have Home Contents already
Check your policy
Check your home insurance policy. I have mine with RACV and I remember reading in the PDS that they cover you whilst cycling.
Same here-with Suncorp
10k damage by a cyclist? Wtf.
$10k doesn't sound crazy, some nut case girl reversed into my parked Japanese sports car just the bumper and one headlight needed replacing and that already costs $6.5k, I sighted the transactions. Similar in your case a work mate J-walked and jumped onto the bonnet of an incomming car to avoid injury, replacing the bonnet, windscreen and front bumper spray of a affordable Skoda wagon was billed at $5k.
I would say Audi TT with an aluminium bonnet and windscreen that must be imported is not farfetched being $10k, especially if you are 100% at fault and the driver is entitled to brand new manufacturer replacement parts.
Just pay him $10,000, problem solved. And remember to get insurance from now on :)
Really? You're happy to pay $10k, no questions asked? I don't think he has all the facts yet.
Yep,really ! Just yourself in the other driver's shoes !
The other driver's shoes:
Oh, sweet my insurance has paid me out and my car is fixed. Not sure about the other guy, that's the concern of the insurance company.
@Kangal:
That would actually be my exact thought process.
I couldn't give a shit about the other guys personal situation. If you're of age, on a bike and on the road have insurance or deal with my insurance coming after you if you accidentally damage my property.
Good idea James packer, maybe get the Butler to drop off $10K worth of Gold bullion when the chauffeur next takes him out to pickup that beluga caviar from the providore!
So you totally supporting people driving around or riding without insurance ?
Not at all, I am a keen cyclist and have insurance through Bicycle network, my home & contents insiurance and also a velosure policy! If anything i am probably way over-insured! I was pointing out that there are plenty of people that would find it very tough to just lay their hands on $10K and write it off as a lesson. It is not a trivial expense for most people short of James packer! I for one would be doing everything I could legally do to minimize any payout i gave and the driver would only be getting the absolute minimum I was obligagted to handover. Just saying 'oh well' and handing over $10K is not something I would do! I would have legal advice, i would checkout my home insurance, i would negotiate with the car owners insurers, I would get alternative quotes, I woul get advice from the RACV or Bicycle Network. My foirst option would never be to pay up!
If you were at fault you'll need to pay up. If you 'think you were at fault' then you need to determine the actual fault. The insurance company might just be trying it on and hoping you don't have the resources to fight. Scenario 3 is that there is a combined fault and you need to only pay a portion.
Which one is it really?
I'm v.suspicious of any bill that happens to be an exact amount.
Anyhow, I don't suppose you were working as a Bicycle Courier or anything when this happened…
OP most likely was 'rounding' to make it easier. Could have been $8952.45 for all we know.
yeah, i know…
$9,876.54 …yeh, a ten grand
What a stupid reply! Dont you know that the LAW states that both parties must exchange details in the event of an accident. Otherwise its a hit and run. Don't give advice if you don't know what you are saying!
Irrelevant. Could be an accident between a pedestrian and a car. Its still an accident on a public road.
a bicycle is a vehicle.
@PVA:
yep…
as my friend found out while, standing astride his bike, he was walking home because he was drunk.
Cops pulled him over and he was done for dui, court appearance required
As you admit fault you are liable for the damages. You can always ask to get quotes to repair any damage caused yourself and see if the cost comes down. Problem is that once its with the debt collectors its well past the point of negotiating on that basis. Try negotiating with the debt collectors.
Try negotiating with the debt collectors.
DO NOT DO THIS. The best they will offer is a payment schedule, they are contractors who do not have authority to reduce the amount, they are just engaged to get it…and they are paid on a percentage of the amount collected, they are not interested in reducing the amount they get paid for the same job.
Get legal advice & let them do the negotiation, it is never too late to mitigate your liability here…remember OP, you are only liable for realistic damages, not any old astronomical figure that suits the insurer.
Not entirely correct. This depends on the debt collector. Some agencies will purchase debt, in these cases they can and will negotiate.
Fair point, I wasn't sure this was the case in Australia though…certainly the case in countries like the USA.
The other thing to remember is that quite often, there is no actual collection 'agency'; in the initial stages it is a pre-purchased form letter drafted & sent by the insurer…the perceived threat of third party involvement (and additional expense) is often enough to bluff the unwary into capitulation.
debt collectors, that would mean you ignored all letters from their insurance company then.
Which makes me wonder why he's wasting our time with this thread.
No insurance on a bike is one thing (I admit I never thought of it), but ignoring a debt and coming here for help…
No insurance and your fault = you pay.
The best case scenario you might be able to negotiate payment plan.
Just to throw a spanner in the works. As a now retired debt collector, ask the debt collection agent if they have a licence to collect outstanding debts. If not, then tell them where to go. Otherwise, contact the Insurance Company of the other person and come to some agreement to pay off the debt.
Thanks for all the feedback. All well and good advice taken on board.
The thing is that I have not had any communications from the insurance company, letters or phone call at all, until this letter showed up at my door step.
Is that likely because the insurance had insufficient information to contact you in the first place?
You could contact the insurance company and have them explain why they have not been in contact with you and what the basis of their claims is. Ask them to itemise all costs and to show proof of incurring them. Once you get that, obtain independent quotes to get an idea of whether the costs seem reasonable. Avoid dealing with the debt collectors if you can help it. Start saving up for the bill as you take your time with the above.
In the end, you should pay up for your stuff-up, but it does not mean that the "professionals" should take you to the cleaners in the process.
Fair enough, ignore my comment above about only trying to solve now that it's at the debt collector level.
Did the other party get your number/address?
As others have already mentioned, if you have home contents insurance, it is likely you are covered under the liability cover that comes as standard with your contents insurance.
For example, the insurer I work for has the following condition in their policy (while I do not know whether you have contents insurance, if you do, the liability cover is generally pretty standard):
If this Policy covers your contents, and your home is your primary residence, we insure you and any member of your family against any claim for compensation or expenses which you or the member of your family become legally liable to pay for the:
1. death of or personal injury to any person
2. loss of or damage to property;
resulting from an occurrence during the period of insurance, anywhere in the world that is not related to the ownership of your home.
If you do not have any contents, what exactly happened to cause the accident? I've got over 10 years experience handling motor claims so happy to give my take on liability if it's not clear cut.
These conditions make it sound like you can make a claim against your home and contents insurance even if you were involved in a car accident and were not insured? Am I reading the conditions correctly? Surely missing something
No, there are exclusions for liability incurred as a result of the use of a registered motor vehicle or vehicle that requires registration and the like. No exclusions that would apply in the policy I was looking at for liability incurred through the use of a bicycle though.
Ahh right. That makes sense. Trust an insurance company to protect themselves well!
just to further your point, the PDS for NRMA home and contents insurance even says
We cover the legal liability of you or your family for:
-death or bodily injury to someone else, or
-loss or damage to someone else’s property
in an incident that takes place outside the site, but within Australia.
For example, you may be liable if you are riding your bicycle on a road and cause an accident.
There is an exception in that they do not cover damages occurred during competition/races. However, racing on a bicycle requires a licence/membership to Cycling Australia which includes insurance anyway.
I mentioned above that i was hit whilst crossing a zebra crossing. I was covered by my home insurance under the liability clause. I received a nasty letter and court summons from the lady that nearly killed me wanting me to pay for her car damage, the dents in her car that my body made as she ran me down whilst i was standing on a zebra crossing! The lawyers from my insurance company laughed at her claim and told me not to worry about it they would deal with it. I heard no more about it!
Thanks Lucious, I'll had a look at my policy.
Debt Collectors on My Door
I thought you said they sent you a letter ?
It's a figure of speech I hope, otherwise he would have written NEED ANSWERS FAST… THEY ARE CLIMBING THROUGH THE BLOODY WINDOW AND I'M OUT OF SHOTGUN SHELLS…. AAAGH…. TELL MY FAMILY I LOVE THEM..
Forget the zombies, collector apocalypse…hey, we all knew it was coming… ;)
There's a difference?
@Namkcalb: One eats you alive while the other lets you live but very painfully and you'd wish they'd just kill you.
Have you been to court ? , How did the accident happen and whom determined who's fault it was ? " apologies if these questions were answered " .
Who was at fault…?