Hi, just wondering what Oz Bargains thoughts are on this.
[edit] Seems this post has pissed a lot of people off.
I was asking for peoples thoughts on weather taking your exact amount of paid sick leave every year is milking the system, weather you are sick or not.
I was not asking for "help" on what I should do, what the employees situation is, or the reasons my job requires me to look into this.
Whatever oz-bargain, have fun.
To another company (internally make you might get to keep it?); you would usually lose it. Unless you are one of those companies that pay out sick leave mentioned previously (which sounds awesome). Same as any other leave (e.g. annual leave).
Im pretty sure annual leave gets paid out, correct me if i'm wrong
I thought that was only if you were retrenched. If you choose to leave, you lose it.
annual leave always gets paid out. you'll also get a redundancy payout if you get retrenched
@terminal2k: Oh yeah, that's right, I did get paid out in previous roles…I forgot. That's why in previous roles they would always encourage (and sometimes force) us to use up annual leave!
@terminal2k: just don't get your super on it.
Better off using leave and then quit or using it in Leui of notice
You lost is all in most cases. Some businesses have schemes where you get paid out incentives for not using your sick leave.
Lose it all. So use it up before you leave. Which to me would look WAY more suspicious than what the OP asked about. But they're leaving anyway so who cares…
Not sure if this has been mentioned before.
But sick leave can also be used "to care for an immediate family or household member who is sick or injured or help during a family emergency".
If people seems taking sick leave regularly, maybe check if they actually being sick or caring for their family members (eg. taking them for regular check ups)
Parents with young kids tend to take more sick leave too. Younger kids, especially if they're in childcare, can get sick often.
Source: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave
Yeah but you don't say you're sick, you say you're caring for X.
Yes exactly… so OP need to look at the reason the sick leave used.
Wow, took this long for this to get mentioned, I was going to say the same. However unlike recommended below, in the last two work places I have worked in it comes from the same pool as sick/personal leave and there's no way to comment on it, except communicating it to your manager. This doesn't however get recorded in the HR system so the reports do not indicate whether it was sick/carer's leave.
As others have mentioned, I too had 60 sickies a year working overseas. Didn't really affect how many I used compared to my current job which has the standard amount.
That's just the way how things work. It's because sometimes you really need those days for sorting personal/family issues
WTF then you should take an annual leave day (unless the issue is illness either yourself or someone in your care) or unpaid leave if you don't have any annual leave. Seriously….
Your poll is bullshit.
The fact you even made the post in the first place says more about you than it does about the employee…
When I was running a business, initially it used to annoy me.But I took that and the attitude that usually went with it into consideration when revising annual salaries. What goes around come around!
That's just the adversarial relationship we all have with our employers. They've offered a contract that includes sick days but then if you try to actually take them they get to hold a grudge on you and surreptitiously cut your pay at the end of the year. :p
Honestly I'm not sure if I love or hate what you've said so it's a good effort overall. Worth a chuckle.
use it or lose it
simples
Start asking for medical certificates if you want, other than that you've got no grounds to assume s/he's faking it.
My job has 2 days per year no documentation required. The rest require stat decs. It's a high stress job, 12hr day followed by 12hr night shifts including weekends and management have problems approving leave not booked 6+mnts in advance.
Nobody at my work has any sick leave left.
Just sharing a story about where i used to work long time ago
If u guys know/ever heard this story, u would recall which company/ who this person is 😜
One of the newly appointed division directors really took sickies seriously that many employees thought this person was a psycho to some level. Once upon a day, this director told verbally to all managers that anyone in the division who takes sickie must call this director's mobile phone the morning they decide not to go into the office
Everyone who called the director for sickie was asked 3 things:
1. What sickness they have
2. Can u take panadol and cold shower?
3. please come to the office afterwards
Everyone was like WTF!!
(Well…. as least there was a please word was used)
This went on for a few weeks until director went on overseas holidays. Given the role as director, the phone must be on all the time with roaming….
During the holiday, many called the director at 9am sydney time advising sickie when it was 3am sleep time for the director
Lol
After that incident, the stupid rule stopped informally…
then what is personal carer leave…sometimes you tell your boss few weeks before that you are not coming on particual day,so boss can arrange things according to that.but in return boss doesnt give sick leave.isnt it unethical.means it should work viceversa.you are loyal to boss and boss should look after the employees.my personal opinion boss should pay sic leave….
Is this person approaching retirement age?
My Mum only took sick days when absolutely necessary. Very conscientious. Her sister-in-law had been the same and when she was diagnosed with cancer, she was paid right up to the time she died.
Mum had always banked it for this insurance. However, as she approached retirement, she figured she had enough insurance between the sick leave and long service leave entitlements, so she took her 10 days every year for the last part of her working years.
You have no idea what their situation is - chronic illness of themselves or a family member, sick child or grandchild …. who knows. Unless you ask those questions and find out more, you cannot make assumptions.
Just one other example, In today's world, it is so hard to have a sick child who cannot go to child care because they will not let them. Is your sick leave policies flexible enough for your employees in these situations? The first time I had this problem, I was told I was entitled to sick leave for a sick child. I have also needed to use carers leave for a dying parent. So many places have now reduced bereavement leave too and also included less significant others in that list.
So there are any number of scenarios your employee could be dealing with. Some of the issues could be coming from your workplace policies and cultures or even bullying. So don't just look at the employee as the cause.
.
One time, i took a sick day, went to the doc for a certificate, np.
Next day im feeling like crap, gradually getting worse. Turns out i got chicken pox froma (profanity) kid while getting a certificate for my sickie. I noticed him scratching at reception but thought nothing of it.
I was in my 20s and never had it before, bed ridden for 2 weeks, 3rd week i could at least play playstation.
I was furious, that shit hurts. Told the owner i will wont be providing a certificate from now on, going to the docs is like a cesspool. Still to this day if i ever see that (profanity) red head kid on fire, i wont be pissing on him.
Wah, that is terrible luck!
You do realise that the incubation period for chicken pox is like two weeks right?
Anyway, having it as an adult would be awful, I had it when I was 8 and even thinking of the blisters I had gives me the shivers.
Don't ever, EVER get shingles then
Yeah nah you can keep it ;)
Don't sick days roll over to the next year?
Only some places do this it appears. Doesn't seem to be in the professional IT market from my experience though.
If they are taking the sick days scattered here and there instead of as a big chunk, and if they aren't then taking unpaid leave for other sick days, it sounds fishy and like they are taking advantage.
A medium private business I worked for would pay out sick days at the end of the year. Sounded like a good idea but ended up with there being at least 2 or 3 people constantly in the office coughing and spluttering their germs on everyone else during winter.
Mo money, mo problems.
Whats wrong with that taking what he is 100% entitled to ?
I guess the OP was insinuating that they were taking "sickies"?
You are entitled to take sick leave if you are sick (or looking after someone who is sick and probably some other scenarios within reason). What you are not technically entitled to is "sickies"; i.e. taking days off work just because you don't feel like working (which for many people is everyday haha).
Unlikely it can be proven in many cases though and perhaps partly why people do it…
I supervise a couple of people as part of my job. From my perspective of they used up all their sick leave, and that was the only issue, I honestly wouldn't notice.
However, if they weren't being efficient in their job, and the regular sick leave days were adversely affecting the team, I might look into whether the sick leave claims were valid.
If the person Is doing there job and hitting there kpis who gives a shit. If there a shit arse worker and your finding reasons to sack them well go for it.
Don't see the big deal if they have doc certificate. Unless your one of those people that like to cause pain to other people's lives and make more unemployment. Then shame on you.
You should have a 3rd poll option of "or am i a d@ck?"
So I can vote for that 1 :D
I have had employees whinge that they have run out of sick leave when they need 'real' time off when they are actually sick…the same people milk the system each year and take them all. Save them up…you never know when you will actually need them. Its a free form of income protection…
it depends on the organization
last couple of companies I have worked for, sick leave does not accumulate, so it is use it or loose it.
I don't understand why there is any confusion at all. You should take all of your sick days every year unless they accrue in which case it might be best to hold on to them for an emergency or long term issue.
If the argument is that a casual wage pays extra because it doesn't cover annual leave, long service leave and sick pay then it means your full time wage is having some money put aside specifically for this purpose. This is your money. You aren't a charity and neither is the business you work for (probably). They took that money to cover you when you are sick and if you are unfortunate enough to be well all year then there is no reason for them to keep it. If they don't let you cash it out, let it accrue or give you a bonus you'd better take it or you're an idiot.
Too many times my sick leave has been wiped at the end of the year or because I left. That was my money they kept.
Contrast this with my latest job which has a great environment, grants additional sick leave and lets it accrue. I will never take a sickie for the sake of it I will hold onto it in case I ever really need it. If I ever need a mental health day or emergency day to take care of my family the work will actually help out instead of forcing me to take a sickie. It's amazing the difference being treated like a person makes.
On a side note. Casuals can get long service.
Agree 100%
A business is only as good as its employees. I'd take it as a reflection of the business.
I'm pragmatic and would treat each case on an individual basis. If the employee was a bargain; ie. incredibly high performing, dependable, low wage then as an employer I'd play it cool and consider it a fringe benefit to keep the employee.
You should be glad to have someone that organized on your payroll.
I worked for a company and rarely took sick days off, even when I was crook, meanwhile we had some people not turn up nearly every week, guess who the company looked after the most? :/
If I ever worked for someone else again Id take all the sickies I can get!
They looked after the one who most related to.
The Aussie work system is full of imperfections. Sickies are a good thing, bad is when they're used just for slacking off. I do believe a med cer should be provided, tho.
Such a shame the OP bailed. Seems like pretty benign comments overall, but a super interesting conversation…
The reality is there are always bad eggs and no policy will prevent them 100% of the time. With 0 context in this case, who knows. Things I've seen work well are essentially unlimited sick leave allowances (treating people like adults, weird right?) coupled with publicly available leave calendars and records. Leads to a well self regulated system, with people still taking the appropriate level of sick leave and mental health days.
Again, you'd be surprised what happens when you're transparent and treat people like adults.
Really it depends on the job the employer, the pay etc.
You'll find most low pay, what the person consider being low paid, will take 'sickies' . While those in position of responsibility and are paid what they believe is near/fair will rarely take sick leave.
Bump a pleb to a position of responsibility, even with out extra pay sometimes, and you'll see their sickies drop.
Different companies do different things because…… they CAN.
I notice big companies generally don't let you accrue sick leave and other small benefits, money pinching from some new Executive…
But smaller companies who are effected more by employees satisfaction will offer more benefits, like sick leave accrual.
What's the chance the original poster is 'milking the system' by posting this while at work not during a break.
Taking full sick days each year is a childish act. If I was their employer, I'd be more concerned about their productivity then sick leave for this is a sign of someone bored, stale or unhappy in their role.
One day that person is going to get a bad flu and they will fork it out unpaid.
It's a very two sided coin but there are a few people who are taking the morale high ground here.
I've been employed in a company for over 2.5 years. In my first two years I had taken 2 sick days. In the last 6 months however I took 6 sick days. I was legitimately sick and I'm one of those people who don't take kindly when a sick person comes into work ill and spread germs.
After the 6th sick day my manager pulled me aside and stated 'you have had six sick days in the last 6 months, is there anything you want to tell me?' I replied No, I needed the time off and my stance on sick people coming in. He then asked me again 'are you sure you don't want to tell me something..' and starred right through me waiting for a response.
Now I didn't feel guilty for a second because hey I was sick but the way that meeting went with his demeanor and him implying I'm faking being sick just wasn't fair.
I've worked my ass off for the company, after checking my paystub I'm still in the green with ~18 sick days and all the work that I didn't do on those days fell on my shoulders when I got back. I even worked on the weekend for a side project the week earlier.
It sucked. It really sucked. If I had now chosen to use sick days for just having some time to myself I honestly do not believe people can judge and I can totally empathise with the earlier comments in this thread where management was abysmal. People will not chuck sickies if their in the right environment.
You should report him to fair work.
I don't think it works like that and that would make him as petty as he is.
Enforce medical certificates
/Thread
Matters not. Just pay $25 at chemmart and you are done. I think its a bargain
Chemmart issues sickies for $25? More info pls.
http://www.chemmart.com.au/mobile/healthservices/in-store-he…
No appointment required all you need is a chemist
I don't feel like it's milking the system but I think it depends on the person, I get sick a lot but try to save up my sick days for when I'm really sick.
If I actually took them every time I have a bad cold or something I would be in the negative all the time.
Why on earth should employers pay sick leave….if your too sick to work tuff bloody luck.
This is tough in today's age when companies are cutting to the bone. At my place of work, the manager has to do unpaid overtime whenever someone calls in sick, and people call in sick a lot. Poor guy.
I can totally see it from their POV.
I think if it's legit sick leave, they should take it. If they are pretend sick just to use up their quota, that's dishonorable on the employee's part.
But also, corps should stop being greedy.
Fire them. Obviously someone who takes what they are entitled to are bad employees who will sow dissent among the other workers, leading to an uprising.
/s
If you are born and grown up in Austatra, I can only say shame on you.
Firstly, it's "whether" not "weather".
Secondly, when an employee take a leave with medical certificate, you should not question anymore because you are not medical professionals to decide if the employee is fit to work and any influence to urge its presence at workplace may be illegal with heavy penalty.
Thirdly, they are entitled to have all sick leave balance used annually. No one or even law can stop you to take their sick leave pattern into account during job promotion or termination consideration if you are not expressing that verbally or on paper. However, if a staff want a break just to adjust their fatigue biologically or psychologically and you tried to reject that, your cruelty may lead such employee to severe accident or long term injury also affect everyone's morale.
We are not a third world or developing country, so stay civilized.
Firstly, it's "Australia" not "Austatra".
Maybe he/she takes the exact amount of sick leave because in fact he/she needs more sick leave, but can't afford it. Therefore they take what they can.
Employers squeeze as much from their employees as they can get away with, it's the nature of capitalism, and we accept it, but here you are judging an employee for taking what they are entitled to.
Ask for a medical certificate, and respect their rights.
In WA Govt, "Sick" Leave is now termed "Personal" Leave. The Dept I'm in allows 10 days per year. May have 2 consecutive days without a Dr's certificate.
If you don't use any, 8 will accrue against your personal total allowed.
Sort of encourages you to have at least 2 per year. That's what I'm doing with my staff. The good guys that don't pull any sickies are really happy; + it gives the other "good guys" some extra hours to cover them.
I don't extend this to the ones who chuck a sickie at the drop of a hat, as they cause disruption.
Milking? It's a bloody entitlement you're lucky they haven't taken more with the negative culture and attitude they obviously have to endure. Milking. Unbelievable.
Looks like OP is off on sick leave, wonder if he is really sick or not?
in the end they are cutting their own throat i had a co-worker who had to have a heart bypass, 6 months off work all on sick leave
how would this employee get on in that scenario? sure they might have some long service & annual leave but when that runs out they are on leave without pay with medical bills coming in
Agree. I was "sickie free" for 8 years then got pushed off motorbike. = 6 months in Rehab Unit of Hospital + more Rehab after. Sick leave whole time in Hosp.
Thank God I didn't waste Sick Leave.
The other side of people using up their SL, is that when they do get sick they tend to turn up for work, coughing and spluttering all around the workplace, with pretty obvious results.
"Whatever oz-bargain, have fun."
Logged in just to say this made me LOL :)
good on them, the time is there to be used.
so why not?
"whether"
Sack them if they under perform.
Ah your attitude is what makes Australia Great. And to quote from our new president "your fired" oops sorry .wrong nation.
There is a responsibility to manage, too often the lazy way out is taken, it is everyone's fault rather than mine, I can sack mine, there are other options, train, develop, enhance the culture, if none of them work take some training courses which you may fund in the ozbargains posts Udmey and do better
terminate the employee - impossible to take exact sick leave for 6yrs straight. Unless they are a star performer then disregard, but get rid of them.
The results of this poll are pretty disappointing
insert "nobody cares meme"
are you his manager?
your spelling leans towards that way
If you have sick leave accrued and you change jobs, does any of the sick leave get paid out or do you lose it all?