Steering Wheel Lock Major Issue?

bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 13:51
Last edited 16/12/2016 - 14:44 by 1 other user

Hey guys, I just wanted to get some opinions on whether or not a steering wheel lock is a major issue.

The car is covered by Australian Consumer Laws and I'm wondering if I can request a refund as the car has been towed away and is apparently being fixed.
Is this a major issue to warrant me requesting a refund?

I am in NSW.

"If you discover a problem that fails one or more of the consumer guarantees, you may be entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. You can go back to the salesperson and explain the problem. The seller must assist you and cannot tell you to contact the manufacturer."
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/health-home-car/motor-cars

"When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund."
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

Again, a refund is only possible to be requested if it is considered a major issue.

Thanks.

Edit:
The car would not start (keyless car), the lights in the car would not turn on and the car would not lock. That's what they said but you could still move the steering wheel? I've also had two other issues with the car (minor) that have been taken back to the dealership. I've lost confidence with the car.

Edit 2:
What is a major problem?
A product or good has a major problem when:
it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
it is unsafe
it is significantly different from the sample or description
it doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Consumer_gua…?

Automotive

Comments

  • nocure on 16/12/2016 - 14:16

    Steering Wheel Lock

    So the steering wheel lock won't disengage with the key in the ignition?

    • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:26

      The car would not start (keyless car), the lights in the car would not turn on and the car would not lock. That's what they said but you could still move the steering wheel?

      • nocure on 16/12/2016 - 14:37

        Is there a secondary safety procedure maybe, foot on the brake or clutch in.

        • Adz81 on 16/12/2016 - 15:23

          This.
          My steering locks when the car is not running and I open the door… (again, keyless car).

        • Scrooge McDuck on 18/12/2016 - 13:22
          +23

          @Adz81:

          Anyone else not clear on what the issue(s) is/are from the thread title and description?

      • matt_will_fix_it on 18/12/2016 - 09:11

        Is the battery flat?

  • mskeggs on 16/12/2016 - 14:20
    +9

    I can't see how you would be offered a refund.

    • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:26

      Would not have purchased knowing that the car had this condition.

      • dlf73 on 16/12/2016 - 15:04
        +1

        what is 'this' condition to which you would not have purchased it?

    • Scrooge McDuck on 18/12/2016 - 16:09
      +1

      I can't see how you would be offered a refund.

      But thankfully, due to the Australian Consumer Law, consumers aren't at the mercy of retailers to "offer" refunds.

  • Gronk on 16/12/2016 - 14:24
    +4

    I'm going to assume this is a new vehicle that's still under warranty?

    Either way, I doubt it'd be considered a major fault especially if this is the first time it's broken.

    • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:27

      The car would not start (keyless car), the lights in the car would not turn on and the car would not lock. That's what they said but you could still move the steering wheel?

      What is a major problem?
      A product or good has a major problem when:
      it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
      it is unsafe
      it is significantly different from the sample or description
      it doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed.

      http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Consumer_gua…?

      • pyramid on 16/12/2016 - 14:30

        Did you check if battery is dead?

  • pantsparty on 16/12/2016 - 14:29
    +1

    What model car is it? Get it fixed and move on with life. It it happens again then you can think about kicking up a stink.

      • D6C1 on 18/12/2016 - 14:31
        +22

        You sound like a parrot repeating yourself

    • SwampCrack on 19/12/2016 - 11:05
      +5

      Its a Jeep, I bet its a jeep.

      • spackbace on 19/12/2016 - 11:52

        Hey just because it's had 3 issues in 6 weeks doesn't mean it has to be a Jeep. High probability though 😂

        • Jackson on 19/12/2016 - 19:51
          +4

          Or maybe a Holden Cruze…?

  • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 14:37
    +27

    Without knowing year and kms, we're just throwing darts at a dartboard trying to help you.

    Either cough up some more details so we can help, or we have to provide generalised info

    You haven't stated length of ownership or anything. How the hell can we help?

    • pyramid on 16/12/2016 - 14:40

      Well said. We can help in the same way as we did here -> https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/282515

    • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:45

      The car is currently at 40,000km, 2010 model and purchased 1.5 months ago.

      • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 14:45
        +23

        Yeah no you don't get a refund, you do get a free repair though

        • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:47
          -4

          I was under the impression that since it is within the consumer law and is:
          "What is a major problem?
          A product or good has a major problem when:
          it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"

          It would give me the option?

        • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 14:49

          @bich.light:

          You've owned it for 6 weeks… I'm sure you could've arranged that inside a week.

          Get it repaired and move on

          …unless of course it's a buyers remorse thing? You paid too much? Don't like the car itself?

        • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:50

          @Spackbace:

          I didn't have the issue until this Monday.
          I still have not received any word about when I can pick up the car.

          (probably the best car I've ever driven)

        • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 14:51
          +4

          @bich.light:

          OK so they're fixing it and you're happy with the car?

          Then forget the refund nonsense, get the car, be happy with the car.

        • bich.light on 16/12/2016 - 14:51
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          No I've lost confidence considering this is the third issue.
          Similar to the other thread, I believe it is a lemon. But the actual model and series of said car I like very much.

        • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 14:52
          +5

          @bich.light:

          No I've lost confidence considering this is the third issue.

          And the first 2 were…?

        • pyramid on 16/12/2016 - 14:52
          +2

          @bich.light: if you are talking about refund and cherry picking from rules/regulations, i think you better speak with lawyer.

        • Gronk on 16/12/2016 - 15:02
          +3

          @bich.light:

          It's a used car, so any expectation that it will function identically to a new vehicle is unreasonable. As someone's already said you're entitled to a repair if the vehicle was sold with a statutory warranty but that'll be it.

        • MCPokey on 17/12/2016 - 09:09
          +2

          @bich.light: I purchased a 2nd hand car from a dealership some years ago. Found out that the engine was cooked, many sensors was broken and it was just a poor car. It was in the shop for 8 months waiting to get a new engine and weeks after it was replaced, the air con went on it.
          I lived in Cairns at the time and you NEED an air con up there.
          Anyway, I saw a lawyer & nothing could be done.
          The only option you have is to go through fair trading and they'll act as umpire for you and the car yard.
          End of story. They cannot even force them to do anything.
          So, unfortunately, unless the car yard bends over backwards for you, there's not much you can do.

        • bich.light on 17/12/2016 - 10:54

          @MCPokey:
          That's a pretty crap go, hope you've had better luck.
          I've had a similar situation with a motorbike. Eventually, the engine just blew up on me. The issue just snowballed into it.

      • apple2016 on 16/12/2016 - 15:04
        +1

        what was the issue diagnosis?

        If its the electronic locking system or immobilizer that failed then you will not get a refund. But you can get it fixed for free.

        But you could chase for a refund if did find there was modification to the car that caused it to fail and these modification were not disclosed to you when you made the purchase.

        Now why did you loose confidence with the car? was there any mechanical issue?

  • dlf73 on 16/12/2016 - 15:01
    +3

    What is the issue you have that even warrants a refund course of action?
    You do not know what the issue is yet, so I think you have jumped the gun coming on here.
    Wait until you get the issue fixed, then you will know what it was, and what may have caused it, to then come back here and give people info so they can, in turn help you.
    I also dont understand what the topic of steering wheel lock has to do with the overall scope of your issue.
    I think your topic should be refund on possible lemon vehicle, or similar.
    what are exactly the 'issues' you have had for you to loose confidence? Some info please, unless you plan on running for POTUS……….

  • altomic on 16/12/2016 - 15:13
    +12

    from piecing together the very limited information provided by the OP and legal knowledge gained from watching Judge Judy - I decide in favour of the appellant and award damages of $6,200,000

  • enzioFirenze on 16/12/2016 - 15:13
    +6

    lol you didn't even buy the car brand new, there's no way you can get a refund mate, repair and move on, flip it if you don't want it. It does sound like buyer's remorse to me though!

  • ChrisLevo on 16/12/2016 - 18:05
    +5

    Coming up to 7 years old, and done 40,000km, and you want a refund?

    Would you offer that if you had sold it?
    I think not.

  • Mumbles on 16/12/2016 - 18:07
    +5

    The question isn't whether or not its a major issue. OP, you are asking whether you have rights to a refund on a new car. The short answer is not yet, its too early for your state's car lemon laws to kick in.

    I'm guessing the contract's cooling off period has passed. The issues are now Manufacturer Warranty issues. OP has mentioned that nothing against the repairing dealership. Has not even let the dealership and manufacturer to correct issues.

    If you want to see what car manufacturers can get away and not refund then Google:
    - VW diesel gate
    - VW DSG automatic gearbox failure
    - VW Golf 118 TSI engine failure
    - Ford Focus DSG gearbox failure
    - Jeep warranty complaint
    - Fiat warranty complaint
    - Alfa Romeo warranty complaint

    To put your mind at ease every car today comes with defects and recalls. If you really want reliability, quality assurance, testing, low cost of ownership then everyone would appreciate Korean and Japanese manufactured cars. Unfortunately trouble free reliability is not a sexy marketing point for Aussie car buyers :(

    If you already know you are unhappy with the car the best of your legal choices is sell/trade it for a vehicle with less issues.

    In future its best to vote with your feet and purchase from a reliable manufacturer. Otherwise you'll be helping to perpetuate sub-standard manufacturers.

    • spackbace on 16/12/2016 - 18:52
      +1

      a reliable manufacturer.

      Please, name 1 manufacturer that has never made a dud car, or that no one on the planet has had issues with. Not 1 single solitary person has had an issue with.

      Go on, I dare you

      • altomic on 16/12/2016 - 20:05
        +16

        Spackbace Motor Car Company

      • aussieprepper on 18/12/2016 - 02:29
        +1

        Honda lol plenty of dud cars but still reliable. Of course this does not sure out single incidents and the airbag problems.

      • smpantsonfire on 18/12/2016 - 10:21
        +15

        Hot wheels, never had an issue

    • bich.light on 17/12/2016 - 00:57

      Thanks for this.
      The car is Japanese so I thought it would be a bit more reliable.

      • Baysew on 17/12/2016 - 09:59

        Is it a Nissan Pulsar?

      • Hiroko on 18/12/2016 - 04:25
        +3

        Japanese brand… but was it "Made in Japan"?

    • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:18
      +1

      Has not even let the dealership and manufacturer to correct issues.

      Why should the OP let the manufacturer/seller to correct and accept a repaired car? Under the ACL, consumer has a choice to seek a refund or a remedy. It is the consumer's choice, not the manufacturer's or the seller's.

      • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 14:20

        Yeah good luck with that.

        • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:23

          As I have said earlier, the car dealership will fight tooth and nail not to honour the law (ACL).

          What if my lemon car has a ‘Major failure’?

          If the car you’ve bought from a dealer has a major failure, then you’re entitled to a replacement or a refund from the car dealer.

          What is a ‘major failure’?

          You have the right to seek a replacement or refund from a car dealership if your car has a major failure, but there may be an argument between you and the dealership about the term ‘major failure’.

          The motor vehicle sales and repairs industry guide to Australian Consumer Law explains that a ‘major failure’ is a problem with your car that is so significant that a reasonable consumer would not have bought the car if they had known about the full extent of the problem. This could mean that the car you bought is unfit for its normal purpose, unsafe, or very different from the description or demonstration model that was originally shown to you.

          https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/lemon-car-what-you-can-do…

        • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 14:26
          +2

          @surm:

          As you've already stated, defining a major problem is gonna be problematic in itself. If the dealer can fix the issue at not a big cost, then it's not major.

          If the fault is out of OP mistreating the car or some such, then court time will be a waste

          I'm thinking a lot of this boils down to OP having buyers remorse and doesn't wanna admit it.

          But hey all we're doing is guessing because OP is choosing to omit vital details.

        • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:29
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          If the dealer can fix the issue at not a big cost, then it's not major.

          While everyone is entitled to their own interpretation like above, the ACL says;

          The motor vehicle sales and repairs industry guide to Australian Consumer Law explains that a ‘major failure’ is a problem with your car that is so significant that a reasonable consumer would not have bought the car if they had known about the full extent of the problem.
          https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/lemon-car-what-you-can-do…

        • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 14:32
          +1

          @surm:

          Yep now put that in actual real-world effect. I've seen people dealing with ACCC over this, and it ends up in a lot more headaches for the customer than the dealership

          At the end of the day, no used car will be perfect, so what you're saying is that if any used car gets an issue that the customer deems is major, they can get a refund?

          That's not how the world works

        • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:38
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          Yep now put that in actual real-world effect. I've seen people dealing with ACCC over this, and it ends up in a lot more headaches for the customer than the dealership

          Yes, used car dealers have such a "reputation" because of this exact reason. Those who sell lemons will do everything to get away from the law. OP has to be persistent to get a fair decision. First get a ruling from the state fair trading department.

          https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/other-helpful-agencies/co…

        • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:40
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          so what you're saying is that if any used car gets an issue that the customer deems is major

          That's not now how the world works. When there is a dispute about what a "major issue" is, it is up to the authorities to rule what a "major issue" is ie a reasonable consumer would not have bought the car. That is why OP will have to get a ruling from the state fair trading department.

        • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 15:24

          @surm:

          Yep and what's the time frame? Your used car develops a fault in 6 months, do you get a refund? 12 months? 2 months?

          Cars are prone to issues. If what you're saying is true, used cars would be overpriced due to the overheads of allowing for refunds all the time. Dealers would just want to sell new cars, screw selling a used car that gets a fault after the new owner gives it a thrash and then wants to return it.

          Wouldn't need hire car companies

        • Scrooge McDuck on 18/12/2016 - 16:26

          @surm:

          What kind of reasonable consumer would buy any product knowing it had any nontrivial fault, unless it was adequately discounted?

        • Scrooge McDuck on 18/12/2016 - 16:41

          @Spackbace:

          Dealers would just want to sell new cars, screw selling a used car that gets a fault after the new owner gives it a thrash and then wants to return it.

          But the dealer could allege that the car was of reasonable quality but was misused.

  • try2bhelpful on 17/12/2016 - 07:25
    +3

    We had a lot of issues getting our demonstrator Mercedes fixed (air conditioning issue). It went back a number of times, ("fixed for sure" was the cry each time) but the problem always reappeared. They then made the mistake of giving us a loaner car whilst they had another go at it. We told them they get the loaner car back once they could prove it was fixed. Apparently further testing then uncovered the actual cause and we didn't have any issues with it afterwards. They were doing this all under warranty, so it was just the inconvenience factor for us, but they did seem to need the extra incentive to really investigate the issue properly.

    This is the legal position in Victoria. It only talks about repairing issues not a refund.
    https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/motor-cars/buying-a-used-car…

    The problem with second hand cars is that people will often pass on their lemons when they get sick of trying to get them fixed.

    • bich.light on 17/12/2016 - 10:32
      +2

      The issue for me is that the warranty ends in 1.5 months time and I do not want to take their word for it that everything will be okay and is fixed.
      I think I've decided to get a thorough inspection by an independent mechanic; which I guess is something that I should have done in the first place? Though the dealership was telling me that they could not have foreseen this issue occurring.

      • spackbace on 17/12/2016 - 11:22
        +2

        Though the dealership was telling me that they could not have foreseen this issue occurring.

        Well… how could they?

        • try2bhelpful on 17/12/2016 - 13:50

          Well all these dearlerships would have a mechanic that checks their cars before they are being sold. Won't bet on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if this issue was there all the time; just saying.

        • spackbace on 17/12/2016 - 13:53
          +2

          @try2bhelpful:

          Was there all the time? So how'd the OP test drive the car? How'd they drive it home? How'd it go 6 weeks without resurfacing?

          If it's an electrical issue that was a known problem, it would've shown itself a lot sooner, and I doubt there's any form of 'quick fix' to mask a problem like that

      • PVA on 18/12/2016 - 15:28

        I am guessing it is a KIA? 2010 model still under warranty. Or a car with an added dealer warranty?

        • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 15:34
          +1

          Statutory 3months/5000km warranty

        • PVA on 18/12/2016 - 15:46
          +1

          @Spackbace: ah, I see. ignore my comments, I dont know what I am talking about.

        • spackbace on 18/12/2016 - 15:48
          +1

          @PVA:

          We have it in WA, I'm assuming some other states get it too

  • highdealer on 18/12/2016 - 02:57
    +10

    Am i the only one who doesn't even understand what problem the OP car have?

    • smpantsonfire on 18/12/2016 - 10:22
      +1

      It's a riddle eh

      • altomic on 18/12/2016 - 11:48

        Wrapped in an enigma

    • bich.light on 19/12/2016 - 19:52
      -2

      OP didn't understand what problem was because dealership at time did not explain.

      • highdealer on 19/12/2016 - 22:48

        Their is a different between a "problem" and "the cause of a problem". You don't need an explanation for a problem to identify one. You didn't understand what cause the problem, but you didn't even attempt to describe clearly what the problem is/are from your point of view. Tell us how the car didn't operate in the way you expected it to and may be we can come to a conclusion is the problem if really with the car or with you.

        • bich.light on 19/12/2016 - 23:20

          "The car would not start (keyless car), the lights in the car would not turn on and the car would not lock."

          The car didn't operate period. There were no lights, the car would not turn on.
          I expected the car to turn on but it didn't.

          That's all the information I knew.

        • highdealer on 19/12/2016 - 23:23
          -1

          @bich.light: Then what does that have to do with a steering wheel lock?

        • spackbace on 19/12/2016 - 23:37

          @bich.light:

          How do you know the battery wasn't just flat in the remote? Could you lock and unlock the car via the remote?

    • jason101 on 18/12/2016 - 07:31
      +1

      Some pretty awesome detective work if it is that - I doubt a pre-purchase purchase inspection would have discovered that nugget especially if the car was a grey import with no recall paperwork making its way to Australia.

      • Hiroko on 18/12/2016 - 09:48
        +11

        im really just taking a stab at it, but
        - 2010 model with only 40k kms
        it would most likely be a non daily driven car
        - Japanese make which OP presumed reliable
        - Comprehensive keyless security system with Electronic Steering Wheel Disabler
        - The fact that it's a 100k car OP feels an entitlement to more than a "patch".
        - OP failed at least on 2 ocassions to reveal the make / model when questioned to protect the brand name… or possibly to protect his/her identity as theres only a handful in Australia.
        - In OP's words "best car ive driven"
        To me all that screams out 2010 R35 GTR
        * Detective Hat Off *

        • PVA on 18/12/2016 - 15:31

          would it have a 7 year warranty, OP says it still has warranty.

        • bich.light on 19/12/2016 - 19:51

          Pleaseeee I would love a 2010 R35 GTR. Or any GTR.
          Regardless of price I thought that it would warrant more than a 'patch'.

    • isthisreally_me on 18/12/2016 - 15:02

      Going by this doesnt seem like a major issue, no chance OP will get refund.

  • DiscoJango on 18/12/2016 - 09:39
    +6

    i like reading threads with some vague description given at the beginning.

    • McFly on 18/12/2016 - 10:00
      +8

      Future thread examples:
      "Thing in garage won't go"
      "Can't talk to other people over long distance"
      "Can't wash myself"
      "Can't find that place with all the cheap stuff!"

    • IceCreamBandit on 18/12/2016 - 10:06
      +4

      We should just respond with vague answers to match the descriptions. Or you know, suggest bikies.

  • surm on 18/12/2016 - 14:03
    -3

    OP,

    Australian Consumer Law applies to all new and used cars bought through car dealerships.

    Like other products that are protected by Australian Consumer Law, new and used cars bought from a car dealer have the following guarantees:

    1. Free from defects
      The car you bought also needs to be ‘free from defects’. The car dealer needs to guarantee that the car has no faults when you bought it from them.>

    2. Must last for a reasonable amount of time
      Your car needs to ‘last for a reasonable amount of time’.

    What if my lemon car has a ‘Major failure’?

    If the car you’ve bought from a dealer has a major failure, then you’re entitled to a replacement or a refund from the car dealer.

    What is a ‘major failure’?

    You have the right to seek a replacement or refund from a car dealership if your car has a major failure, but there may be an argument between you and the dealership about the term ‘major failure’.

    The motor vehicle sales and repairs industry guide to Australian Consumer Law explains that a ‘major failure’ is a problem with your car that is so significant that a reasonable consumer would not have bought the car if they had known about the full extent of the problem. This could mean that the car you bought is unfit for its normal purpose, unsafe, or very different from the description or demonstration model that was originally shown to you.

    https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/lemon-car-what-you-can-do…

    So, according to what is above, I believe that it is reasonable to determine that your car has a major failure that became apparent in such a short time (6 weeks), therefore, you are entitled to a refund. However, the car dealership will fight tooth and nail to say otherwise. So your steps would be to first complaint to the state fair trading department. If you get a favourable decision from them but the car dealership does not honour that, then you will have to take this to the small claims tribunal if the refund you are seeking falls under the small claims tribunal's limit

    • bich.light on 19/12/2016 - 19:48

      Thanks surm.
      These were the steps that I was following but I had wanted further clarification if others thought it was a major issue.
      Clearly not though.

  • captobvious on 18/12/2016 - 15:06
    +3

    When you get the car back, put it into a tree sideways. Thats the only refund you are likely to get.

  • Randxyz123 on 18/12/2016 - 16:39

    I doubt you will get a refund. If it is repaired and then continues to have the same issue then it would be reasonable to ask for a refund.

  • DiscoJango on 18/12/2016 - 20:33
    +4

    drive around dandenong until apex gang car jack you?

    make sure to jump out yelling omg! gta style tho

    • McFly on 18/12/2016 - 21:33
      +1

      Need to make sure someone is following with a camera to sell the footage to ACA.

  • huybo on 18/12/2016 - 22:02
    +3

    Its getting quite exhausting reading threads where OPs (not just this one) omits vital information whilst attempting to find a solution from the community.

    I understand its an information discovery process, but if you aren't willing to share all the facts pertinent to the case, perhaps posting it in a forum might not be the best.

    Kudos to OP though because at least they did not create a new account just to create this post like so many others who masquerade.

    • bich.light on 19/12/2016 - 19:47

      I can't speak on others behalf but I didn't see the significance in listing the make and model of the car.
      In retrospect, I can see the reason why the age matters though.

      • huybo on 19/12/2016 - 22:45
        +1

        If you had known of the steering wheel lock issue prior to purchase, i think for any normal car purchase it would put your off from the purchase.
        If it was a 2010 R35 GTR however, we are talking about something entirely different. You would most likely still purchase it anyway, but quietly harbor hope that yours isn't affected.

        From a car dealership point of view, if it can be fixed it will always be deemed a minor issue.

        So just bad luck really, and i hope it all works out for you.

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