Ute Reversed into My Car and Not Accepting Liability

pluto on 05/12/2016 - 12:25
Last edited 07/12/2016 - 14:09

Hi Guys,

I was involved in an accident in Melbourne suburb on 2nd December 2016. I was going back to my home and the driver in toyota Hilux Ute was reversing the car which had a towbar. I stopped my car, but the Ute driver continued to reverse the car hit my car on the right side driver door. I took all his details. He has Tasmanian Driver License with Tasmania address . He said he was driving his brother's Ute. There was not a scratch on his vehicle as his towbar hit my vehicle. The Ute is registered in name of his brother. I called his brother and he said he will talk with his insurance and will do what they say. Now problem is I have third party insurance with AAMI and they wont do anything. He has comprehensive insurance with AAMI and he is not lodging claim.

Two days ago his brother told me that he doesn't want to go through his insurance as this will lower his driver ratings and premium will go up , asked me to send him 3 quotes of repair . If its around $1200 he will pay me.Now he is backing out of that also.

I went to Police to complain about this matter and they also said its an insurance matter and I have to deal with insurance company. He said he only give a call to this person. I tried calling several times him and his brother and no response till one call picked by him and to ask about his home address to send him "letter of demand" and further legal proceedings and that he will have to pay a lot more and he said he will call police about harassment by phone. I got call from same police station which i had visited to complain about him about not calling him back. When I explained my situation to her, she said just text him one text asking for address for sending letter of demand.

Now I want to send him a letter of demand, I don't have his Victorian address. I need your advice regarding how to proceed in this matter and what are my options?

UPDATE :other party has admitted fault and has lodged claim with AAMI. I got call from AAMI and booked my car for repair and will also get the Hire car in the meantime. Thanks guys for all the help.

Automotive

Comments

  • Ryanek on 05/12/2016 - 12:29
    +3

    Brace Yourself. People commentating that you should have bought a dashcam is coming.

    • dixy on 05/12/2016 - 12:46
      +12

      I wonder if having a dashcam would have helped in this situation if the damage was done to the side door. That wouldn't be captured. Right?

      • Cheeper on 05/12/2016 - 12:49
        +1

        Eggactly :-)

      • Ughhh on 05/12/2016 - 13:01

        Even if you have all the proof, op is still bottlenecked by lack of address. I think op spooke/pissed off the other driver by mentioning letter of demand/legal proceedings, he pulled out his guns too early

    • chillin222 on 06/12/2016 - 20:46
      +2

      Soooooo much misinformation in this thread!

      1. This is not a police matter, there has been no criminal offence committed. Why did you go to the police?
      2. This is not an insurance matter, you are not insured. It's not your concern whether the driver was insured or not, and even if he was insured you would have no claim against his insurance company.

      This is a civil matter between you and the driver. You will need to claim damages from the driver via our standard legal processes.

      You should first attempt to settle the dispute by sending a letter of demand. If you have his details, you should easily be able to track down an email address/Facebook/workplace etc through Google searches. You don't need to send it to a physical address.

      If that fails, you will need to go to the small claims court. After filing a statement of claim, you will also need to serve it on the driver. This will likely be the most tricky part of the whole process.

      You could consider seeing a lawyer to guide you through, but it's definitely not worth it for $1200.

      You could also try other dodgy tactics, e.g. a phone call to his boss or family.

      • humdogg on 07/12/2016 - 12:35

        (mostly) this, still upvoted.

        This will likely be the most tricky part of the whole process

        There are probably a few complexities. Serving the claim (making sure the other driver receives it), winning the case, and enforcing the judgment if you do win, just to name a few.

        but it's definitely not worth it for $1200

        Most likely the case. In Vic, you will get some costs back in you do take it to Court (if letter of demand fails) but you will still likely to be out of pocket.

  • oscargamer on 05/12/2016 - 12:36
    +2

    or you should have fully comp insurance

      • Baysew on 05/12/2016 - 14:26
        +8

        I have third party insurance with AAMI

        • nikey2k27 on 07/12/2016 - 11:57

          progressive insurance is still cheaper fully comp insurance then Aami third party. i hate AAMI third party as lady crash into my car she only had third party with AAMI he say he did not hit me i hit her it go to court soon.

  • Scab on 05/12/2016 - 12:38
    +1

    Should have had both.

  • mrsi on 05/12/2016 - 12:51
    +13

    Send it to the brother from Tasmania. He ran into you. It's technically his problem, not the owner of the car. You should have his address from the license.

    • Seraphin7 on 06/12/2016 - 08:56
      +3

      Bingo. Liability is with the person who caused the damage, not the owner of the implement they caused the damage with.

  • Cheeper on 05/12/2016 - 12:58
    +1

    You took pics at the scene?
    Although the police said it was an insurance matter you should have still asked to submit an incident report.
    You have the 3 quotes? Copy them and send them to the address on the licence of the driver. Send a letter of demand requesting payment by cheque to you in say 28 days and wait and see. For now that is all you can do.
    Pursue the driver as he is responsible, not the vehicle owner.

    • oscargamer on 05/12/2016 - 15:47
      +5

      In VIC, police will not take a report in the circumstances outlined by the OP

      and they shouldn't

      the OP should have decent insurance, or live with the consequences……it really is that simple

      • JIMB0 on 06/12/2016 - 09:45

        Not sure if it's changed but the police used to be required to attend an accident if the damage was estimated as being over a certain amount. $1500 IIRC.

        • Finde on 06/12/2016 - 19:39
          +12

          Incorrect. I am a Victoria Police officer.

          We only do accident reports if it was a hit and run and the other driver left without providing details or if there were any injuries and someone will be making a TAC claim.

      • iamw0man on 06/12/2016 - 09:52
        +1

        But OP's insurance company shouldn't need to get involved at all. If OP isn't liable then they should just be able to submit damages to the person's at fault insurance company and not even deal with the driver/owner - the insurance company will chase that up if they have the rego/name etc.

        • Ughhh on 06/12/2016 - 10:40

          Except the other drivers insurance company doesn't work for op, nor does get paid by op (for comprehensive service). If the other driver doesn't want to lodge a claim, the insurance can't force him to pay.

      • taoz on 07/12/2016 - 08:47
        +2

        Why should op pay more for insurance for other peoples errors?
        Cant agree with that.

        • Ughhh on 07/12/2016 - 10:41

          He shouldn't, no one should. But if you want help, it cost money and time, which lots of people don't have.

    • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 16:36

      Thanks for the suggestion. I will contact police to file incident report.

      • Finde on 06/12/2016 - 19:36
        +5

        Incorrect. I am a Victoria Police officer.

        We only do accident reports if it was a hit and run and the other driver left without providing details or if there were any injuries and you will be making a TAC claim.

        It is a civil dispute, not criminal and so police will have no involvement. If you don't have comprehensive insurance, then you need to proceed via VCAT (civil courts) and hopefully this will be a lesson on the importance of comprehensive insurance for you.

        It is not our role to chase the money for you because you didn't want to pay extra money fit insurance.

        • captobvious on 06/12/2016 - 21:30

          BOOM! well said

        • Domingo on 07/12/2016 - 09:18
          +2

          What details does the other driver have to provide? In this scenario, it appears that the other driver has failed to provide an address and while they have provided a phone number, are not cooperating.

          Does that mean if I had an accident I could provide my mobile number and then never answer, but have fulfilled my legal obligations for being involved in an accident?

        • bobbified on 07/12/2016 - 09:46
          +1

          Now, would it still be a "civil matter" if by your observations the other driver "appeared" to be under the influence?

          I've never really understood where the line is drawn between what is classed as a civil matter and what is a criminal matter.

          There's a lot of things that are between two parties that can be classed as a "civil matter".

          To me, it sounds like the "civil matter" excuse is just a cop out (no pun intended) excuse because of limited time, budget and resourcing issues.

        • Finde on 07/12/2016 - 14:12
          +1

          @Domingo:
          The only details you Havre to provide are name and address and considering OP said the other driver had a Tasmanian license and address which says to me he provided those details.
          Whether or not they cooperate after is irrelevant. Once details are exchanged, police are no longer involved. Even if he was charged, it would not get his money back. He would still have to go through VCAT.

          As long as there are no injuries involved, once you have exchanged name and address, all legal requirements have been fulfilled and you can leave.

        • Finde on 07/12/2016 - 14:20
          +3

          @bobbified:

          If we had been called at the time of the accident, we could have come and conducted breath test then. Saying it days later is irrelevant as there is no way of proving it

          A criminal matter is if it is an offense against legislation. Civil if not.

          For example, you lend a friend a laptop and they refuse to return it. That is not theft under law. Theft under law states they had to obtain it dishonesty (taking it without permission). You handed over the laptop willingly, therefore it is a civil matter because he can't be charged with any criminal offences.

          It is not a cop out. Literally we can't do anything. In OP's case, the most we could do is call the other party and tell him to pay it. If he says no, there is nothing we can do about it because there are no criminal offences.

          The only civil matter police get involved in are intervention orders.

        • bobbified on 07/12/2016 - 14:49
          +1

          @Finde:

          It is not a cop out. Literally we can't do anything
          there is nothing we can do about it because there are no criminal offences

          So how many times have police turned up to these "Civil Matters" (car accidents) and issued a Neg Driving ticket (which is an offence) to one party ?

          I appreciate your response and I'm not having a go at you personally - there just seems to be so much inconsistency in the way we get treated.

    • buckster on 06/12/2016 - 18:37

      I thought the cops would only get involved if the other driver refuses to stop or give any information to identify themselves. Probably wrong though

  • try2bhelpful on 05/12/2016 - 13:00
    +1

    Did you take photos of the damage and the other person and their vehicle as evidence? Frankly insurance companies suck enormously.

    This is for NSW, but I presume it would translate to other states.

    http://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassist…

    Many years ago my other half got hit by another car that then took off. (Pre dashboard cameras). He got the number plate and reported it to the cops. Funnily enough when the cops contacted the other people they suddenly discovered their car had been stolen earlier that day - even more interesting was that the car turned up around the corner from them a few days later. Unfortunately there was nothing we could do about it.

    Good luck.

    • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 16:38

      Yes I have taken the photos of damage of car. Position of cars after accident and I have picture of the driving licence of ute driver.

    • kash1 on 06/12/2016 - 08:59

      I had the same thing happen but the guys number plate fell off when he hit me and yep 5 minutes later the car was reported stolen,

  • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2016 - 13:33
    -7

    typical tasmanian inbred hicks

  • dogboy on 05/12/2016 - 13:49
    +2

    Forget the police, forget the Australian legal system. This is clearly a matter where Bikies need to be engaged for a quick & just resolution.

  • pantsparty on 05/12/2016 - 14:12
    +5

    It sounds like you should be going after the person who was driving the car. Leave his brother alone, he didn't hit you. Send the driver the letter (which he will likely ignore).

    I assume your car is not worth much if you only have third party"? This is the gamble you take by not buying comprehensive insurance.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/12/2016 - 16:38

    Can't you put in an uninsured claim against him directly with his insurance company?

    That's how it works in NZ at least.

    • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 16:44

      He is also with AAMI and I have his policy no. But still AAMI told me he will have to lodge claim by calling himself. If he didn't had any insurance then I would have lodged claim myself and AAMI would have recovered cost for other party.

      • slikguy on 05/12/2016 - 18:43
        +8

        AAMI has to act on your instructions. If you call them and tell them you'd like to lodge a claim for Damage by uninsured drivers they have to process it. They will write to the person you have identified and ask for their version of events and asses who was at fault.
        They can't simply search their system for the other party and say no.
        The other party doesn't have to disclose to you if the have insurance.

        Call them, tell them the other person said he didn't have insurance, lodge your claim. Let them figure it out later

        • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 20:15

          I already told AAMI he has insurance with you. I also told them his policy no. So this is not an option .

        • slikguy on 05/12/2016 - 20:27
          +3

          @pluto: you mentioned it was the brother that hit you and not the car/policy owner. You are lodging a claim against the driver at the time of the incident. That person told you that he doesn't have insurance and he legally can't speak on his brothers behalf.
          Contact AAMI and lodge the claim. I would remccomend submitting the claim online. Yes, it will take longer then normal, expect approx 4-8 weeks depending on how quickly, if ever the other party responds. How do I know? It happened to me :)

          Put the onus on the other party to come to the party. AAMI has a responsibility to indemnify their policy owner against any loss as described in their pds. In your case, damage by uninsured driver.

          The answer is always no unless you ask.

        • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 21:00

          @slikguy: Thanks for reply. The guy who hit me didn't told me anything about insurance. He said it is his brother's ute and he don't know about insurance. He didn't said he has no insurance.

          It's good idea to lodge claim online. But AAMI told me if they find out the other guy has insurance later then they will bill me. If other person don't have insurance then they will fix my car and charge other driver.

          I don't know if there is difference between uninsured driver and uninsured car.

          Please explain what should be my next step and what was your situation.

        • andyken on 06/12/2016 - 22:22
          +2

          @pluto: I think you should listened or read all the advise just given it to you. Call AAMI again, and lodge a claim against the driver (the ID that with you) not against his brother, simple as that, dont make things complicated. his brother (who owns a AAMI policy) had nothing to do with you, as he is not the driver. you make thing complicated and your insurance try to do the same.

          my 2 cent, lodge a claim against the driver as you have the proof of the incident and the ID of the drivers, lodge via online if you cant make things simplify over the phone. stop mention about his brother about having a insurance with AAMI

        • pluto on 06/12/2016 - 22:26

          @andyken: I tried lodging claim online but it says "Claim online is not available for Third Party Property Damage (Car or Motorcycle)"

          Also when I called them they said as a TPP customer I cant lodge claim for my damages, person who hit me has to lodge the claim.

        • andyken on 06/12/2016 - 22:58
          +2

          @pluto: there is some panel beater will dealt with your insurance and third party that involved. i heard lots of good experience from smashrepair, give them a call and ask them (please make thing simplify, just say you are not at fault and you have the other party driver license and contact no). or if you live at eastern suburb, call this mob.

          next time, instead of taking a photo only, record the car as well, and while you recording it, ask the driver about his license and make sure HE ADMIT THE LIABILITY of the incident if you can.

        • Randxyz123 on 07/12/2016 - 02:44
          +1

          WRONG.

          This for comprehensive insurance.

        • wog_ta on 07/12/2016 - 08:57
          +1

          @andyken: My father did the same thing. Had 3rd party, other person was at fault and had insurance. Went to a panel beater that sent a letter of demand, a week later car was repaired.

        • andyken on 07/12/2016 - 11:14

          @knick007: you are WRONG, this is not through insurance, this is thru PANEL BEATER.

  • stemcell on 05/12/2016 - 20:21

    What suburb in Tassie?

    • pluto on 05/12/2016 - 21:03
      +1

      Mole creek

      • stemcell on 05/12/2016 - 22:17

        That's really out in the sticks.

        • Ozbargainite on 06/12/2016 - 02:34
          +2

          Ha Ha Yes indeed.
          Dueling banjos country out there.

        • captobvious on 06/12/2016 - 21:31
          +1

          and brokeback mountain

  • horice on 05/12/2016 - 20:33
    +4

    Doesn't AAMI third party pay up to $5000 for not at fault accident if you have the other parties details

    • affable on 06/12/2016 - 09:00

      My wife claimed on her 3rd party when an uninsured driver crashed into her and got $2k from the policy (many years ago!). Read your policy and see if it applies in your situation.

    • furys12 on 06/12/2016 - 11:52

      this OP should definitely dig into his policy and see if he has anything like this, it seemed pretty normal when i was comparing insurance offerings last time

    • Godric on 06/12/2016 - 17:25

      Isn't that only if they have no insurance?

  • kryptoz on 05/12/2016 - 21:49

    I suggest you ask AAMI more questions about what options are available to you, since you have already shown them all of your cards.
    Failing that, you could contact legal aid for your state for advice, they may be able to provide you with example letters to send to the uninsured driver, for example.

  • Geewhizz on 06/12/2016 - 06:49

    I think you'll find the car owner himself isn't liable. If he doesn't want to put it through on his insurance I don't see how you could force him to do so.

    Your issue is with the brother.

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 06/12/2016 - 09:09

    Pretty much exact same thing happened to me (although a few years ago now). Police gave me name and address of the other driver when I gave them the number plate of the car that hit me.

    • pluto on 06/12/2016 - 09:14

      what was the end result. Did he paid you damages?

      • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 06/12/2016 - 09:44

        She didn't even realis she hit me. Just drove off. I wrote a detailed letter to her including quotes. She paid me by cheque.

        • pluto on 06/12/2016 - 10:13

          is it possible for you send me that demand letter to look at the format. I will pm you my email. Thanks

  • EdAus on 06/12/2016 - 10:19
    +1

    Send a letter with the quotes.
    Usual blah blah.
    Then add at the end.

    I will be taking this to small claims court. If court is necessary to finalise this matter, I will be asking for court costs from you as well as vehicle costs.

  • Craigie on 06/12/2016 - 10:21
    +2

    Why not try those repairers that will repair your car and can deal with the culprit on your behalf without extra charge?

    • pluto on 06/12/2016 - 22:17

      yes I did that today. I went to get quote from different panel shops and I came across company that said we will take care off the matter from here and will contact insurance and third party and will also provide hire car while repair is done and they will recover all cost from insurance or other party.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/12/2016 - 10:17
      +1

      Why is OP asking all over the internet, but not asking the company who he pays his insurance premiums too? lol

  • furys12 on 06/12/2016 - 11:51

    this would be the big downside to third party, if someone else is at fault and they decide they don't want to pay for it you don't have an insurance company to got to bat for you.

    something i learned long ago was if you have third party (you should probably do this all the time really) and you are involved in any incident, no matter how minor, immediately call the (non emergency) police, take photos and record the details of the other parties involved that you can gather without talking to said parties, number plates, car make, model and color etc, and then get an official police report done when they arrive, it'll likely take ages and seem petty, the other parties may not even stick around, hence the documentation, but if it comes down to it and you have to do all the footwork that police report will make a huge difference in a "he said she said" situation, given how quickly car repair costs can balloon its worth having.

    getting a police report was the difference between my car getting repaired and me getting screwed after a pizza joint decided to pretend it never happened and ignore me.

  • CryssieJade on 06/12/2016 - 17:18

    If you have his rego and are with AAMI, they will sort you out at no charge. They did for me

    • gimli on 06/12/2016 - 17:22
      +3

      lucky

  • points4life on 06/12/2016 - 18:12

    You have his name, you have his policy number, you have his phone number… just call up AAMI and submit your own claim ;)
    Legal? Probably not.

    • matt_will_fix_it on 06/12/2016 - 22:35

      And pay the excess from your bank account? :)

  • OpayuOnam on 06/12/2016 - 18:34

    Surprised no one has mentioned these guys or any if the similar services:
    http://acornrentals.com.au

  • prinsenhof on 06/12/2016 - 19:30
    +5

    Id just spend $500 on a towbar and return the favour.

  • mp3police on 06/12/2016 - 22:19

    Someone in a ute in tasmania reversed into my partners 2008 subaru impreza pushing and breaking half the bumper off breaking the light $200+ on its own.
    He left a random business card because someone saw him do it and took off.

  • Marcsie on 06/12/2016 - 23:33

    You get what you paid for ? The third party insurance :)

  • shamid202 on 06/12/2016 - 23:58

    its surprising how how law protects us

  • partymix on 07/12/2016 - 00:24

    Check out this guy: http://jpauto.com.au/help-with-car-insurance-claims/

    You may have to pay a fee (usually equivalent to an excess) and get the car fixed through him but wouldn't hurt to contact him to see if he can help? His name is John Pennant.

    I used his services years ago when a guy with no insurance reversed into the car I was driving.

  • 973728 on 07/12/2016 - 02:33

    Send a letter of demand with the quotes attached stating that you will take legal action if monies are not received within x days or it is logged with AAMI for them to arrange repairs.

  • Randxyz123 on 07/12/2016 - 02:50
    +2

    Here are the steps

    1. Go out and get a quote to repair. Forget this 3 quotes bullcrap. Go to the closest place to your house and get a quote there.

    2. SMS the driver asking for the best address to get in touch.

    3. Send a letter of demand by registered post requesting payment within 14 days.

    4. If he does not pay, send another letter informing him to pay up or you will be taking the matter to court.

    Some incorrect information above…

    TPP will cover HIS car if you hit him. Most insurers won't help you with a no fault claim for TPP. No it doesn't matter if you have his policy number AAMI doesn't care. Police won't do anything because he gave you his details.

  • onlyletters on 07/12/2016 - 09:49

    If you think your in the right, go talk to a panel shop, they will quote it up and send the other guy a letter of demand, hopefully he pays up, if he doesn't then go see a lawyer.

  • Skramit on 07/12/2016 - 10:27

    Many panel beaters align with a legal firm to sort these sorts of not-at-fault claims out. They represent you at no cost and take their fee out of the claim from the at fault partys insurance.

    EG: NAMS http://www.namslegal.com.au/

    Motor Vehicle Collision Recovery
    At NAMS Legal we believe in personalized and comprehensive service. Just one call and we will provide you a complete solution for your vehicle recovery case. If you are in a motor vehicle accident and you are not at fault, NAMS has a wide range of panel shops that will repair your vehicle, provide you with a replacement vehicle at no cost to you.

    They basically do what other people are advising you to do yourself - but they are experts at it rather than you fumbling your way through letters of demand.

  • lint on 07/12/2016 - 11:20
    -1

    Wow, this is pretty confusing. I don't understand why AAMI won't help unless the at fault person lodges a claim. That just gives them no incentive to lodge a claim.

    As far as I can see, AAMI should be processing your claim, I don't really see how having third party insurance would make that any different from comprehensive. I don't have any experience with third party insurance though.

    • Skramit on 07/12/2016 - 14:08

      Because OP doesnt have comprehensive insurance. 3rd party insurance only means AAMI don't have to act on the OP behalf.

      It's as simple as that.

  • timon on 07/12/2016 - 19:10

    Go to any repairs and explain the situation and provide all the details with all the photos you took. They will fix your car as well as chase to pay them as they have their own lawyers if invoice not paid regardless where they live. Happened to me one time but it was hit and run case so I reported police. Hope this will help

  • garetz on 11/12/2016 - 18:45

    You are going to have to hire your own adjuster to battle with your own insurance company. It might end up costing you more in legal fees than the repair itself.

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