How to convince daughter she doesn't need a Mac?

zaqwsx3 on 28/11/2016 - 17:05

The school my daughter attends has a "bring your own technology" program. Basically, the students all need to bring their own laptop to school, and of course all kids at that age want an Apple Mac ("because everyone else has one so I need one too, and my friends say its the best one to get, and blah blah"). The only requirements the school has given is it must run Windows 8.1 or above, Max OS X 10.9 or above, support WPA2, between 11-15 inch screen, and weigh under 1.5Kg. Now I could go and buy a Macbook Air 11" for ~$1200 (1.6GHz/4GB/128GB), or I could use that $1200 and presumably get a lot more bang for my buck in some other brand Windows 10 beastie.

So what's a good spec laptop for around the $1200 price range, and any tips on how to convince the daughter she's better off without an Apple product even though all her friends will probably have one?

Computing

Comments

  • dealsucker on 29/11/2016 - 09:29
    +3

    Do whatever just dont buy into the hype called Surface Pro. By far the worst PC I have ever owned. Firmware issues, battery issues, backlight bleed. Microsoft support is pretty good though but you will still save a lot of time and headache.

  • CryssieJade on 29/11/2016 - 09:29

    Don't bother trying to convince her otherwise. A Mac is an investment. My Macbook Pro is 4 years old and gets a hammering for work (photography) and looks and performs like I bought it yesterday.

    And yet my friends who have 4 year old PC laptops are forking out money for new ones because their old ones look and perform like carp, with screens falling off and keys missing off the keyboard.

  • pclyne on 29/11/2016 - 09:36
    +4

    Check with he school - my daughter's school (she's yr7 currently) said that some of the software they would be using does not play well with Mac's.

    She has mentioned on more than one occasion that "so-and-so's Mac looks really really cool, but doesn't run [application] well".

    Go with the type (PC/Mac) that the school recommends…

  • urzu on 29/11/2016 - 09:53

    I used to work in sales and often had these situations. I would always show a PC alternative (same specs, cheaper - or better specs, same price). But let me tell you, most times, when the main user has their mind set on a Mac, they won't change, especially teenage girls who worry about their image so much.

    Don't let Macs discourage you though. They are great laptops. For sure, the specs are behind, but they run great on what software they use. Mac OS is a great operating system and while I am a PC guy, Windows 10 has been driving me nuts lately with all the annoying updates that prevent me from working first thing in the morning (and I use a Surface Book…). Should I have to choose a computer for work again, I'd go for a Mac, simply because I want a computer to work.

    Many others have suggested this here and I'll second that: I would find a computer with the same specs as a 11 or 13 inch macbook air and offer to pay that price. They can feel free to contribute towards getting a better machine. It'll serve as a life lesson as well that sometimes, wanting something isn't enough, you have to fight for it too and be ready to sacrifice things on your side (story of my life really).

    Good luck!

  • MrMcHairyHead on 29/11/2016 - 10:01

    Maybe you could try not being a (profanity) and let her choose what she wants instead of what YOU want.

    If it's too expensive that's fine, just tell her it's too expensive, but don't spend the same amount on a Windows laptop because YOU think it makes your dick bigger to go against the grain.

  • msmhw on 29/11/2016 - 10:03
    +4

    why are you spending $1200 on a laptop for high school student? she won't need the high specs. I think ~$500 laptop will be fine for her. If you are going to spend $1200 let her choose whatever she wants. doesn't really matter if it is Windows or Mac. Usually, people buy Windows because it is much cheaper.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 12:42

      Well you don't want to buy a new $500 laptop every year :/

      • msmhw on 30/11/2016 - 13:10

        It is for high school student, what about if you dropped the $1200? you will need to buy another one and spend more $$$. At least if I break the $500 laptop I won't feel sorry/sad as much as $1200 one. Also consider this as a good point, each couple of years I got brand new laptop.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 18:31

          A high school student especially a girl isn't retarded they know what $1200 is worth. A windows laptop in their mind just isn't as precious as a MacBook which they'd treat like a grail.

    • WT on 02/12/2016 - 09:15

      $500 lesson is cheaper then a $1200 lesson

  • donkeydoc on 29/11/2016 - 10:28

    get an ultrabook that looks good, maybe add some pink stickers to it, it will work

  • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 10:32

    It seems the Macbook Air is within budget, so I would just go with it.

    Yes, technically "on paper" it will be beat by many a Windows machine, but the reality is in day-to-day use (where it counts) the MBA will be streets ahead in battery life etc.

  • Baebs on 29/11/2016 - 10:41
    +2

    You're fighting an uphill battle considering your daughter probably isn't mature enough to understand such things as "bang for your buck" and "pc specs."

    • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 11:00

      more importantly wouldn't care less about specs too

      • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 12:43

        probably wouldn't affect what she's doing anyway

        • dbun1 on 30/11/2016 - 13:17

          exactly

          No point getting bogged down in 'paper specs' when real world use won't benefit at all

  • bobwokeup on 29/11/2016 - 10:53
    +1

    I haven't read all the commments as there are too many but in my opinion (as a parent) you shouldn't be convincing her. You are the parent and your decision is final. Might sound harsh but kids nowadays are spoilt (not saying yours is but just an observation). Unless she's saved up the money to help pay for it, she has to accept your decision.

    In saying that we have a MacBook Air and it's been going strong for 4-5 years. Have been converted from a PC user to Mac. If you have an iPhone they are even better as they sync really well. As someone mentioned above a refurbished Mac could be an option, they are on the Apple website and come with the usual warranty. But that's if I was buying it for myself or my wife. For a high school student I would be buying a cheaper laptop that still does the job. I haven't looked at PCs so can't offer a suggestion but a few comments above have given some options.

    Good luck ;)

    • dbun1 on 29/11/2016 - 11:05
      +1

      Yep - a decent spec MBA could potentially last right through high school.

      When I was in school we used Windows laptops and you got one in year 7 and then at the end of year 9 you could choose to take on a new lease for a new machine or buy out your current model. Nearly everyone took out a new lease because the current machines were barely hanging in there.

      Even at work we use Lenovo machines on a 4 year lease and by the end of the lease the machines are ready for the bin. We've just moved to a 3 year lease as nearly everyone's machines would be on their last legs after the three year mark and would have to struggle until they were due for a replacement; unless you could argue a case to terminate early and get a new machine.

  • blazer on 29/11/2016 - 10:59
    +1

    As someone who works in tech I would recommend you skip the Air and go for a Pro, yes it cost extra $$$ but will last her through uni. If possible you want the Early 2016/Last 2015 Pro retina models.

    Alternatively grab a 2011/2012 (Pro) for around 500/600, upgrade with cheap 500GB SSD + 16GB Ram for well under 1k. Problem solved. This model may be slightly heavier than the weight you specified.

    • Munki on 29/11/2016 - 13:49

      I've known people who work at the "Genius bar" refer to their industry as being in "tech"…

  • akastyl13 on 29/11/2016 - 11:00

    Tell her she will have to pay every single software, or go for windows and you will pay them. Or get them for free on OZB.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 13:37

      If she get's a Mac I'll pay for them

  • mrmark1970 on 29/11/2016 - 11:28
    +1

    The Mac book Air has a mediocre screen, but a great keyboard, SSD and keyboard. And the case is solid, drop resistant metal

    It is good value.

    That being said, you can get better value at the Dell Outlet. But don't buy under-built models like XPS or Inspiron. Get tough, repairable and upgradeable Latitude. The slim 7000 series are just as tough as a Mac, and almost as light. But you'll need to be patient to get it at a competitive price.

  • NovaNinja on 29/11/2016 - 11:37

    I suggest OP find a laptop that suits the school requirement and show your daughter about it. If she insist of getting a Mac let her to chip in for the extra cost. I guess as teenager the most important thing is they have a choice and not restrict by parents. Wish your relationship with your child can always stays positive.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/11/2016 - 11:48

    my wife has been using a macbook pro since 2008, updated the ram and a new ssd, more than enough for casual use . She did pay a fortune for it at the time but it has been durable

  • zqipz on 29/11/2016 - 11:59

    This was a good deal
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/278070

  • Cheapascents on 29/11/2016 - 12:09
    +1

    just get one with an ssd

  • Christop86 on 29/11/2016 - 12:22

    Go to the store and have look at the different laptops, show her how they work and what features they have.

    If she's dead set on a mac, you might be better off getting it for her. Maybe she can pay the extra it'll cost compared to a windows laptop.

    Trying to encourage girls into tech, STEM stuff - it's important they have a 'window' they like, which would be her laptop. Maybe say she can get the MAC if she does some kind of kids programming course and completes a task you set for her.

  • Krizy on 29/11/2016 - 12:53
    -4

    'My daughter's opinion is invalid because I'm a huge geek, help me convince her that specs are more important than reliability'. My dad has a Macbook Air 11" for work because PCs kept failing on him, and the only work my 13" MBP has needed in 5 years was a new SSD to keep it snappy and responsive. Any decent computer comes with an SSD installed in 2016/17 so that's not an issue. If you think she needs more performance for research assignments and notetaking then you're the one sucked in by marketing; if you just want to save a buck at the expense of your kid's academic career then that speaks for itself.

  • georgesc on 29/11/2016 - 13:15
    +1

    My 10yo girl wants a iphone because all the fancy girls have one,
    gave her a Galaxy S5 and told her that if she wants an Iphone so bad, she is welcomed to pay it for herself as nobody is stopping her.
    same with the laptop, gave her a new lenovo, if she wants something else, she can go a work for it.

    sometimes you just have to be stern, helps them grow a spine, some character and a sense of independence; and not end up being just somebody to be married off and to be maintained financially.

  • Battlestar666 on 29/11/2016 - 13:44

    Refurbished 2015 12 inch MacBooks from the Apple Store are pretty reasonable value for the specs. Retina display, 256gb ssd, 8 go ram, 8 hour battery life, and very light.

    Enough power to run photoshop on later years, single USBC port only downside. MacBook Air 13 will have longer battery life but lower red screen .

    Don't underestimate the power of peer pressure and iMessage. If she turns up with her windows PC and android phone (assuming iPhones are even poorer value than MacBooks), and all the other kids have MacBooks and iPhones, she'll have a hard time getting involved in iMessage group chats, don't work well with normal SMS. Eventually you'll have to capitulate as everyone migrated to common IM client after about 2 years.

    Seems to be more of a problem with girls from what I've seen BTW, boys tend to go Android and Windows.

  • MrGareth on 29/11/2016 - 13:51
    +1

    Am I missing something here? If it's just for school work - and taking it to school every day, wouldn't you want something cheap with a long lasting battery?

    i.e.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/261518

    $319 for a 11.6" Dell Inspiron 3000, the low end quad core N3710 CPU, 128Gb SDD and 4Gb RAM? They pop up often at this price in the 20% sales, I grabbed one a few weeks back.

    Wouldn't that meet the needs of pretty much all high school students?

    Why would you need 16Gb of RAM and massive hard drives if all they're doing is some word documents and powerpoint presentations… ?

    • jenkemjunkie on 29/11/2016 - 17:55
      -2

      Coz it doesn't play LOL or overwatch or mindcraft with the sweet graphixxxx!

  • Munki on 29/11/2016 - 13:53
    -1

    If your daughter is asking for it, I don't see why you would try and convince her otherwise. She should be old enough to decide what she wants. Why try to impose your ideas onto her? As a parent, shouldn't you just be there to guide her?

    • Brouw3r on 29/11/2016 - 17:08
      +2

      An 11 year old who wants what everyone else wants, just because everyone else wants one is hardly old enough to decide what she wants, especially if she isn't the one paying for it. Literally any laptop made in the last 3 years will do what she needs it to do.

  • nekro on 29/11/2016 - 14:14
    +4

    Tell your daughter she'll get what she's given, put your foot down dad… im old school I know :)

  • DeepSea on 29/11/2016 - 14:25
    +2

    Is she really better off with a PC than a Mac?

    A PC spec does not get you OS X with all the advantages like excellent multi-touch support and overall user experience (both software and hardware), a better and safer app store, and better overall security, including less chance of virus/malware. I also find Apple's philosophy with respect to personal privacy to be much more agreeable.

    I could hardly recommend a Windows machine to anyone unless they are a gamer or a Microsoft stack dev. It's unfortunate when some teenaged gamer or penny pincher pushes for a budget spec PC (with perhaps some better spec key components) over a Mac. It's a false economy. Even if you ignore the positives, you can often recoup the initial cost difference if you sell the Mac after a few years anyway. Maybe Apple have a bit of an image problem amongst boy teen techies who think Mac's are a bit basic, but they live in their own world.

    Personally I'm looking forward to using more Debian linux and firefoxOS as they slowly become more viable for wider use cases. Until then, most of us are better off with a Mac. That in my humble opinion is the unfortunate truth.

  • nahi11 on 29/11/2016 - 15:33
    +1

    Disown her for being an Apple loving pleb

    • Lockieasy on 30/11/2016 - 16:46

      Spoken like a true ignorant PC user

  • CarnivalMonkey on 29/11/2016 - 15:35

    my kids also go to a "bring your own tech" school, the school recommends MBA but also has an option to support windows laptops and I think there is an ipad option, can't remember exactly.
    watching the kids with them they serve exactly the need they were intended for with the programs the school uses (garageband, keynote, wordprocessing, etc) and at home they can play minecraft, watch youtube, etc.
    might be a better option to find out what software the kids school is going to be using over the next 2-3 years and see if there are viable windows options before going the windows route

  • Killer Inc on 29/11/2016 - 16:23

    Hi

    Here are the pro n con of PC vs mac

    Speaking from experience, owning both PC n Mac. Mac laptop does age better, compares to a windows laptop.

    therefore this is totally up to yo to decide if you want a laptop to last 3-4 yrs(mac) or 2-3yrs.(PC)

    Most mac still performs better compare to Pc around 3-4yrs of ownership. where Windows Laptop tends to feel slow and laggy and endless re-installation of Windows.

    IF you want the best value, I would recommend Xiao Mi laptop - under 1k and the hardware specs are pretty decent.

    No matter what the budget is, make sure the laptop you decided must have a FULL HD screen resolutions or else low res cheap laptop will be very difficult to work with in the long run. In terms of viewing aspect.

    http://xiaomi-mi.com/notebooks/xiaomi-mi-notebook-air-133-si…

    Hope this helps

    Good Luck :)

  • PVA on 29/11/2016 - 16:23

    Show her this ( it's a refurb) http://www.cfonline.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&p… $799
    Very mac air looking but more powerful and much better screen.

  • vinster55 on 29/11/2016 - 16:26
    +2

    Been using a Mac Pro for 6 years - zero issues
    Mac Air for 3 years - zero issues
    Bought a windows laptop - used for 2 years and completely went dead

    If it's my choice I would go for a Mac

    Macs have good hardware
    That's all I can say

  • Krish on 29/11/2016 - 17:07
    +2

    Once you go Mac, you never go back

  • [Deactivated] on 29/11/2016 - 17:15

    Get her a Mac, they are reliable and well built. I have both PCs and Macs. My primary computers are a Surface Pro and a Macbook Pro. I much prefer using the Macbook Pro. Its faster and better put together, and the operating system is much better. The widget app things on Windows 10 are a joke (like xbox music player, image viewer etc). I have 3 windows computers, 2 Macs, and only use the windows computers for specialised tasks or tasks that require me to take the computer somewhere it could get broken (cheap ultrabook). I like the surface book, its by far the best PC I've ever used, but it's not as good as the Macbook Pro. The touchscreen is sometimes useful, as is the pen, way better than any previous touchscreen/pen computers I have owned, but it's still not as functional overall as the Mac.

  • The Wololo Wombat on 29/11/2016 - 17:30

    I'm a teacher. I was forced by work to use an Apple. 3 days in, I'll never go back to a PC.

    Get a second hand air. Honestly, they are so much more productive than PCs. Students with good Macs are more productive at school and I think it'd be a great investment in her education. Some PCs are OK, but it's not worth the risk.

    • The Wololo Wombat on 29/11/2016 - 17:37
      +1

      Another thing to consider is their durability. Kids drop laptops. They get damaged. I literally exploded sodium on my Mac this year and it was fine. I had it slide off the roof of my car going 50k/hr and it survived!

      • CryssieJade on 29/11/2016 - 19:48

        My housemate dropped her MacBook Pro repeatedly from tall table to tiled floor and it never broke (she didn't do it on purpose, she is just a very careless person!!) MBP is built tough. It's kind of lifeproof

    • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2016 - 19:15

      I beg to differ. Get another *NIX on your table and you'll discover a new world in terms of productivity.

  • RuiWang on 29/11/2016 - 17:34

    Windows are good for work, thing might be a bit different on Mac, like Excel/VBA. But I use VM on Mac to run these if needed…

  • AlanHB on 29/11/2016 - 17:34

    As an exclusive PC user, I've noticed that Mac laptops have a generally longer lifespan than their PC counterparts. It could be that the extra cash is worth the extra couple of years use you'll get out of the machine.

    That said, Apple users tend to upgrade their gear a lot, so maybe that extra cash won't actually translate into years used.

  • fozzie on 29/11/2016 - 17:40

    I am not an apple person, however for laptops they are the best option (especially if you want it to last 6-7 years) My oldest got the most basic macbook air (11 inches) still cost us $1200. Soon we have another one which will need it too, I was contemplating a cheap laptop. However i think I will buy her a macbook as it will probably last her up to Uni.

  • 811b11e8 on 29/11/2016 - 18:22

    Get her a refurb mac.

    Pros:
    It will last longer, better build quality.
    Stupidly fast ssd, Apple is really quick when compared to windows pc of similar spec.
    All the kids have them, she will be able to get help support from her peers.
    Far more secure for less knowledgeable users almost no need for antivirus/reinstalling etc.
    Awesome support, if anything goes wrong you take it into the Apple Shop and they can fix it or swap it.
    They also hold there value if you need to sell it later.
    Also the other kids will have them so she can share chargers etc

    Cons:
    Costs a little more upfront.

  • blurrybird on 29/11/2016 - 18:24
    +2

    I work in the public school IT program for Victoria.

    Macbook Air 13" / Macbook Retina 13" (budget depending), Surface 3 / Surface Pro 4 (budget depending), or Razer Blade Stealth in that order I feel are the best BYOD options this year.

    We have also trialed the Dell Latitude 3379 (told it was too boring), the Lenovo Yoga 250/350 (told it was too old person-like), and the Acer Switch 12 Alpha (it's Acer, it's guaranteed to break before the 3 years is up), HP Spectre X360, Lenovo Yoga 11e Gen3, Acer TravelMate V5, and a variety of others that pass my desk from time to time.

    I don't do well at explaining things, but ask me questions and I'll answer them thoroughly.

    • blazer on 29/11/2016 - 19:46

      Fellow ST? +1 To what this man said. What you pay is what you get.

      • blurrybird on 30/11/2016 - 14:20

        Correct :) NEVR

  • Psychd on 29/11/2016 - 19:21

    Now I could go and buy a Macbook Air 11"

    Not for long you cant. Apple dropped them at the last Apple event. Its a discontinued product. Read, soon to be a lowly supported laptop. http://www.cultofmac.com/451438/11-inch-macbook-air-official…

    I thought their market share was higher than 5%, but check out https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share…. Best to get to know what she will be using later on.

    Also, who will help her troubleshoot it, if parents/support don't know OSX well, then she could well get stuck (cant FB a friend when the computers not working).

    But, if she NEEDS OSX software for her particular classes, she could have a case. Garageband is used regularly in Music & iPhoto & iMovie in Art here, but its not decreed they need to be used.

    Probably a larger life lesson is we really don't need to keep up with the Jones's. It is tough when all the peer group has the glowing apple on the outside, but investigate the right tool for the job. I like the HP Pavilion x360 with Core M or i3.

  • SBOB on 29/11/2016 - 19:22
    +1

    What software do they run that defines what is 'needed'?

    Im surprised more schools dont go down the chromebook path.

  • straphlinger on 29/11/2016 - 20:38
    +1

    I think it's interesting reading the comments about MAC vs PC's. And that got me thinking. Some MAC users have Windows Machines available with 'When they require a Windows PC to do such and such.' I have yet to hear a Windows user say they ' Have a MAC on standby for when then they need a MAC to do such and such.' (This from someone who's moved from Windows to Linux.)
    Personally I use Dell Laptops, not because they are better, faster or stronger.It's purely because I can get three years next business day on site warranty, and that's worth it for me. My suggestion is to sit down with your daughter and come up with a list of what is important to you both and go shopping with that. You might even get to spend some one on one time with her.

    • scrimshaw on 29/11/2016 - 21:34

      I'm a PC guy and I actually considered buying a Macbook few months ago when I thought I would get into Swift programming. Xcode only runs in OSX so I thought I'd either look into getting a Macbook or put in a litte bit of elbow grease and build a Hackintosh instead.

      I ended up getting a 2nd hand HP business ultrabook (Folio 940m) and as for Swift programming, I gave up on it :(

  • [Deactivated] on 29/11/2016 - 21:00

    Buy your daughter what she wants. She will be the one using it, not you.

    • xoom on 29/11/2016 - 21:32
      +2

      And when she asks for a bmw when she gets older? Same deal? Where does it end?

  • MrBillions on 29/11/2016 - 21:35
    +1

    Bought my kids a Chromebook and all works well. It was from an ozbargain post from Scotty if remember correctly.

  • Mcbargains on 29/11/2016 - 22:30
    +1

    I have found my mac, purchased in 2011, to be far more long lasting and durable than any windows laptop i have owned.

    • MrMarket on 30/11/2016 - 10:36

      Same, Macbook pro 4 years old with latest OS still just as fast as day one, love it
      don't think I ever go back to Windows just for the fact, it just works all day every day and not a single issue.

      I used to bag out mac users I move over to mac with a sceptical view because I was sick of PC laptop with drivers
      and windows update breaking etc… Longest I ever manage with a PC laptops is 3 years most between 2-3 years mark.

  • hibijibis on 29/11/2016 - 22:32

    guess depends how you are measuring good. i actually think the mba is the perfect student laptop. enough grunt for productivity. but not good enough to play a game. lol.

    plus excellent battery life, good build quality, still has ports, best in class trackpad, great weight/portability. if you are measuring just be specs/ram/cpu etc, then its a different story, but there is much more to a computer than specs. and i'll also attest to other posters than the mba lasts forever. we are still using 2010 MBA and its still the computer that we prefer to bring travelling.

  • technowiz11 on 29/11/2016 - 23:07

    As a student studying at a High school I understand her urge to fit together with her friends with a macbook LOL Half of the grade has macbooks and the seem to be the "fashionable" laptop… Coming from someone who hasn't spent any of my parents money in my own technology, preferring to buy sell and hunt for good new and second hand bargains, I really recommend you look into refurbished or second hand macbook airs! Recently got one for a steal price, near new It gives them a macbook which they want, but at price more worth, leaving you extra money for the accessories and software! I also recommend ThinkPads as I own an X1 Carbon and they are the best, but most students don't understand ThinkPads and think they look "old"

    • Tyrx on 01/12/2016 - 10:08

      Lenovo has a history of bundling complementary spyware/rootkits into their devices, so I'd steer clear of them just for that.

  • wanga1983 on 29/11/2016 - 23:45

    You could… ask for an Educational discount at the Apple Store (IIRC it's 10% off) plus another 10% rebate (via TRS) if on the off chance you're planning an overseas holiday soon. Hope that helps.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 30/11/2016 - 00:49
    +1

    So many people recommending Mac - odd since not many people in the world of the workplace actually use them outside either education or graphic design (whether that be purely cost base across corporations, its still a relevant lesson as my boss wouldn't give me a Mac just because I want one). As far as computers go, Macs still only make up 7.4% of the PC market - so no, not everyone has one. Even then, I use my PC for Creative Suite fine anyway as it is powerful enough.

    Sounds like education is the name of the game - Go for a PC and your daughter is more inclined to learn (1) how a proper / versatile / common business computer works, good and the bad, and (2) an important lesson in not getting caught up in superficial fashionable trends because all her entitled spoiled friends have been given one they haven't worked for - Far more important life lesson IMO.

    Even better, this is Ozbargain, do a quick analysis of actual needs (what software, capabilities), which would easily reveal a cheaper PC quite capable to meet a school kids requirements - save yourself money (go for like $800) - shop around and a Win10 PC will do everything she needs and importantly (3) involve you daughter in the decision process, and teach her the value of money by showing what else the $300-400 you save could be spent on that she also needs.

    Learning the value of a dollar is the best lesson I ever learned early in life.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 00:50

    Honestly man, I've had a look at A LOT of alternatives. If my daughter wanted a Mac and was willing to pay the extra $200 "Mac tax" just let her. You'll be paying at least $1000 for a comparable machine in terms of build quality anyway. If you decide not get a Mac, get a dell with 4-5 years onsite NBD warranty. If you're going to buy something without warranty or only 1 year warranty get anything else you're happy with, Dells usually have a higher price tag because of the warranty value. Lenovo I've heard is pretty good and HPs aren't half bad, don't touch anything Acer and I've heard bad stories about Sony warranty.

    This is what I would suggest http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-13-5368-2-in-1-laptop/pd#o… with 4 year warranty after remote diagnosis comes to $1080. It has a touchscreen but ignore that, it's got really good build quality.

  • 50cent on 30/11/2016 - 01:34

    Get her a Mac…she does not need Windows !!

    • ozbargainer88 on 30/11/2016 - 16:06
      +3

      Get her a Windows notebook. She does not need a Mac !!

  • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 03:05
    +1

    Ahhh yes. This happened to me. Daughter said "but everyones got a macbook air at school". After months of nagging I finally gave in. Thankfully I bought a 11" MBA back about 3 years ago on a ozbargain (the old) Dick 20% sale for about $850. So I gave her that. And am looking for a nice dell/alienware to come up at the right price.

    Seeing they are $1500 now, I definitely would not be buying her that.

    • jingsu6688 on 30/11/2016 - 07:28
      +1

      850？Good deal！

      • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 09:53

        Yeah. But the high AUD helped, I think was like 1:1 or a bit less. Thas probably why MBA are 1500 now.

    • voiletmay on 30/11/2016 - 09:34
      +1

      Beware alienware - I've got a 3K alienware laptop (big orange one) that is just a brick. They have a common problem where they know they are plugged in but not charging. I seriously can't believe how many people have this problem with them.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 09:54

        Thanks. I always thought they were the goto for gaming laptops.

  • WT on 30/11/2016 - 08:30

    put your foot down, niece and nephew have apple products, all they do is snap chat and play games on them when a phone/tablet under $100 will do the exact thing they require.

    the mrs uses a $1200 dell thats a couple of years old for work, if they werent paying she would have something cheaper that would be higher spec from another manufacturer. Point is you dont need some beast of a pc/laptop to do office/windows/email/browsing mundane stuff, it wont be cost efficient

    • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 09:55

      Yes, and stream music all day LOUD!!!!!!!!!

  • voiletmay on 30/11/2016 - 09:02
    +1

    Don't know how old your daughter is but macbook airs are great for students. They are light to carry, and battery stays charged for days, much better than the few measly hours on a windows laptop. My two uni student daughters have one each (that they saved up and paid for themselves). They have windows desktops aswell and have no problems transferring assignments/schoolwork between the two systems.

    I think for students they are the best option.

    My sons high school provides the laptops (all student have the same and they keep them their entire school life and get to keep them at the end of grade 12). The school fixes any issues that arise. It's a good system as every student is the same and the teachers only have to learn one system. The kids are also given these full on almost armour cases so if they fall they don't break.

    I's just get her the macbook air and find some sturdy case for it.

  • Zondor on 30/11/2016 - 09:40

    What is your budget?

    In the end as someone who used to work as a school IT tech. Mac's are decent for education even though a PC can do what they do.

    Consider Apple factory referbs, my 2011 mac book pro referb is still going strong.

    Making them save any money that's over your budget could be a good experience for her too.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 09:41

    The macs are worth the money though. Mac does free day/next day repairs on minor things if within warrantee periods.

    They are easier to use, break less, less chances of viruses etc. The general UI is far superior to windows. The build quality is much better etc.

    Maybe she doesn't need a "beastie", just an accessible device similar to her friends.

    She will feel more competent with technology, being able to share device experience with her friends than needing to learn some archaic operating system.

    The apple ecosystem solves many personal computing problems for the user.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/11/2016 - 09:58

    And Apple products last. And (I hate say this) Apple knows how to look after its customers. My son got a 5 yr old macbook pro he uses for video editing fixed FOR FREE! No warranty extended or otherwise. I'm sure he spun them some story they fell for though but good result.

  • shaybisc on 30/11/2016 - 10:28

    Is there any reason why you couldn't top the state in the HSC/VCE without ever using a computer?

  • MrMarket on 30/11/2016 - 10:29

    Mac are reliable computer, I used to be a PC users and hate mac in my early days, I still have 2 PC desktop mainly for games and other stuff that dont run on Mac
    apart from that I got all my kids mac book pro, I myself has mac book pro as well, it been 3-4 years and not a single issue

    Mac are not the fastest PC for its price but I am willing to pay for reliability and an integrated system where you don't worry about chasing drivers and other time wasting effort.

    My Macbook pro is now 4 years old and still running just as fast as the day I bought it with latest Mac OS Sierra.
    If you want hassle free and things just works get a mac and pay the price but if you dont mind fiddling get cheaper PC alternative

  • GordonR on 30/11/2016 - 10:36

    MBA is an almost perfect machine, well ahead of its time and very affordable except when it was first released.

    Super portable, brilliant battery life, easily lasting whole day usage (work, not games), and plenty of power, though I do always buy maxed out version.

    My daughter's school has MBA as required laptop and she loves it, and I've had one for years.

    Don't underestimate the value of lightness, it REALLY matters when you're schlepping it around all day, and whatever you do, do NOT buy a machine with a spinning disk.

    At uni where I work, the MBA, and Surface dominate by a huge margin, with really just a handful of ASUS ultrabooks and DELL slabs bringing up the rear.

    Unfortunately, It is showing its age - screen is low quality by today's standards and Apple have really dropped the ball on updating it. Three years ago they had real and growing market share among the students - tomorrow's professionals - but they've just ignored them since then, instead bringing out exquisitely crafted but not very practical machines at eye-watering prices that only today's professionals can afford.

    The famous Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey legend) said that his success was due to always skating towards the place where the puck is going to be, not toward where it is, and by ignoring the entry level, Apple are not doing that.

    Sadly, I think that my next laptop will be an XPS13 with Linux, though it pisses me off that DELL only offer such a machine in the US and Europe.

    • scrimshaw on 30/11/2016 - 22:34

      The MBA is an entry level machine and Apple wants to keep it that way. It will hurt their profits if every Tom, Dick and Harry find that the Air suits their needs because the MB Air only costs around $999 ~ $1200.
      It's clever market segmentation that helps prevent their lower end products from cannibalizing sales of higher end stuff.

      Apple would prefer that you splurge big money on their higher end machines with their better features, rather than just buying the 'economical' version of their products. The MBA is a good value laptop and Apple knows it, but it's not great for their bottom line if you bought the MBA over a Macbook Pro.

      The touch bar for instance, while it is a very cool feature, it doesn't really address any need, it's just a new innovation that's introduced to keep Apple ahead of the game (only slightly until somebody copies it) but they can charge a hefty premium for it.

      • GordonR on 01/12/2016 - 11:09
        +1

        That's all true, but they need to keep the MBA as a desirable entry-level option.

        A few years ago, the MBA was miles ahead of the entry-level competition with everything working together to give a super-responsive computer (e.g. all-SSD lineup since 2010/2011) with great battery life etc. that was only a few hundred dollars more than the alternatives.

        This led to massive adoption by students, many of whom learn to love Unix / OSX and who will presumably buy Macs when they graduate, become IT professionals etc.

        But since then, the competitors have lifted their game, while Apple has just done some minor spec-bumps, so the MBA is no longer the automatic choice, and Apple just don't seem interested in updating it.

        I agree that they don't want to cannibalise their higher end sales, but they really need an attractive entry-level proposition or they'll just lose those customers for life.

        And look who's stepping into the gap - Microsoft - which has been refining the Surface until now IT is just as desirable, leading on to the Surface Studio as the aspirational product… if Apple is not careful, MS is going to steal its lunch from right under its eyes.

    • decr on 01/12/2016 - 14:04

      Wow, read through the comments upto here and seems like yours is the first one to mention Linux in this holy Mac vs. PC (read Windows) war. I'm not a fan of Macs and have been Windows-free for years, good riddance.

      Sure chromebooks have been mentioned but they are not an option in this case. As for Dell you should be able to get similar models over here with slightly different configurations. I have a Precision m3800 (ships with Ubuntu in the UK as an option), works great with debian and I have no need for MS products, nor Apple, even in the current corporate environment I work in.

      • DeepSea on 01/12/2016 - 14:59

        Also prefer Debian to Windows for basic use, so long as somebody can install/configure it for them first. Simpler than dealing with Windows if you just want to get online, some music and video, or dev stuff. Other than dev stuff, a tablet would also suffice. For myself, I can’t properly use Debian/Linux until it can restore the user session after boot/crash (apps, windows, workspaces), and switch workspace/desktops with three-finger-swipe. And where’s the damn equalizer? Music sounds so fkn bland without the classical or dance setting. And finally there’s no proper app firewall.

        • decr on 01/12/2016 - 19:41

          "I can’t properly use Debian/Linux until it can restore the user session after boot/crash (apps, windows, workspaces)"

          Works fine for me in KDE5/Plasma, depending on your definition on properly though. Not that I have crashes that often, but when experimenting with unstable it does happen from time to time (and it's an intentional choice that this might break things etc). Apps that have crash recovery like chromium work fine, and the window manager nicely remembers the positions of my terminal windows. No problems, not sure about Gnome etc, I haven't used much of it in the past 10 years. I can't compare with Macs, but I'm glad to hear that MS finally implemented workspaces in Win10 (Yes. I used 3rd party tools ones faking it with win2k). Whether it works or not, no idea.

          Anyway, this is off-topic and doesn't help OP at all. Audio and wireless are show-stoppers but they seem to finally be getting better. And PulseAudio sucks. And systemd, and …. /end rant

          TL;DR: Linux works just fine on the desktop, otherwise suck up the price tag and get a mac.

  • username1 on 30/11/2016 - 10:58

    Just get the MacBook Air seeing as it will be what she wants and will be able to do everything a student needs anyway.

    Rather than buying a computer she doesn't want but has 8GB of ram and an i7 processor which she doesn't care about but just wants to fit in with a nice looking MacBook.

  • shaybisc on 30/11/2016 - 11:09

    "The new technologies were seen as the means to higher academic achievement and better numeracy and literacy because students would be more engaged and interested, but the data says otherwise.

    One thing is glaringly obvious. Computer technology was introduced into Australian classrooms without supportive longitudinal research to say that it would be demonstrably better for students.

    It is not going too far to say that if the same haste had been used in the introduction of a new drug without significant trials, then there would be little chance of the drug being available. So without research evidence supporting the introduction of computers into the classroom, this is highly risky. We think it works but the effects are unknown.

    The OECD report tells a very different story. In short, what the report found was that investment in computers and iPads does not improve literacy and numeracy. Moreover, the OECD report went so far as to say that use of computers is associated with lower results. The warning bells should be ringing."

    The report is unequivocal, "Students who use computers very frequently at school do a lot worse in most learning outcomes."

    Christopher Bantick SMH
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/time-to-close-the-l…

  • usbc activist on 30/11/2016 - 11:16

    Macsales has some unbelievable prices on refurbished macs….

    A mac will help your kid

    to play with unix
    less distraction from games
    try coding ios and mac apps
    will last very long till they gets bored with it

    better to get her a refurbished mac….

  • TheGloriousOne on 30/11/2016 - 12:01

    If you have a ~$1200 budget, just get her the Macbook Air.

    Obviously its a terrible option if you care about getting good value for money spec wise, and that's important to you.

    But this laptop is for your daughter, and its clear she probably couldn't care less about specs as long as it meets the school criteria.

    There's clearly something else about the Mac that would make your daughter very happy, even if you can't personally relate.

    This comes from someone who goes to great lengths to research the best value for money spec laptops when buying, and has never owned an Apple product in his life.

  • neophytte on 30/11/2016 - 12:28

    I have a MacBook Air 13" 2013 model, which I got secondhand for $600, this is capable of running both OSX 10.9 and Win8.1 via Bootcamp. You don't need a new Mac, but if you want to run both OS's, I suggest one with at least a 256Gb SSD.

  • snowcold on 30/11/2016 - 12:38

    get a lot more bang for my buck in some other brand Windows 10 beastie

    If you mean more capacity for the same price (e.g.: better processor, more RAM), you might be comparing apples and oranges. A mac, by design, is optimised to the hardware it runs on and a Windows, again by design, supports a vast variety of hardware and not optimised to one. This means that a Windows machine needs more hardware to compensate for the lack of OS optimisation

    Now that being said, Macbook Air is a product line that is almost dead and apple might discontinue that next year. As @neophytte said, a second hand laptop might be a better option for an air. I haven't read through the comments; but I am sure you have got plenty of suggestions on Windows alternatives

  • dbun1 on 30/11/2016 - 13:21

    If a MBA is within budget I would just get it and not get bogged down in getting the best specs for the money as it really won't matter.

    Pick your battles - with a teenage daughter there are bigger fights to come - don't sweat the small stuff on an issue like this.

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