New Electrical Wirings in Old House - Probably Containing Asbestos

jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 18:24
Last edited 25/09/2016 - 18:25

Hi guys, I am thinking of redoing some of our wirings in the house to rectify some faulty GPOs (1 at living room, 2 at other rooms, 1 at garage) as some circuits are suspected to be faulty and I am thinking of adding new CAT6 data outlets to the all the rooms while I am doing this. We have an old house (build in the 1970s) which we are not the first owner. Not sure if there are any asbestos in the ceiling, roof areas but i think with a house build in that era, it cannot be avoidable.

At the moment we don't have ceiling issues so I think the asbestos are contained and not dangerous (fingers crossed). The question is…if I ask an electrician to do these works, and assuming that most of the works would need access into the ceiling space, would they cause bodily harm to themselves and cause breakage to the existing asbestos building elements and then become a health hazard for us.

What do you guys think?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • nocure on 25/09/2016 - 18:40
    +10

    if I ask an electrician to do these works

    If? This type of work must be done by a sparky.

    • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 18:42
      +18

      No need to get technical over wordings….yes these works will be done by a sparky.

    • outlander on 25/09/2016 - 22:11
      +3

      Maybe he didn't intend to ask, maybe he was thinking of demanding, you don't know.

    • Jackson on 27/09/2016 - 21:37

      Don't get a sparky to do it, waste of money. Buy your powerpoints on Alibaba and do it yourself

  • nrg2010 on 25/09/2016 - 19:05

    Advise your electrican of your concerns, and if you think you have the asbestos loose fill then….

    http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tenants_and_home_owner…

    Hopefully you don't have a Mr. Fluffy House.

    If you have asbestos sheeting consider how you/they will clean up from any penetrations, and avoid if possible.

    Dude ….can it be wired from underneath? It is often easir to do rather than brigning the cables down the wall.

    …good luck

    • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:21

      Thanks. Don't think it is possible to be wired from underneath without breaking all the tiles but i will ask the contractor when they come for a quote. I just wanted to know how people get wirings done in an old house…surely this has been done before…

      • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 19:30
        +1

        Have you considered netgear powerlines products or similar?
        Whilst you will have to sacrifice speed and dollars, you maybe able to avoid the whole asbestos issue, provided outlet issues are easy fixes.

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:33

          Yes. I have tried a powerlines Tplink one…too slow really to be useable. Returned shortly after.

        • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 19:42
          +1

          @jeeg: wow you must be doing somoe serious data use or the ones you did use were very entry level low bandwidth stuff.
          If you did use higher end ones then I think that will concur you have wiring issues, maybe worse then expected!

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:44
          +1

          @dlf73: might try the netgear one as you suggested. will do some price shopping after.

        • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 19:49
          +1

          @jeeg: netgear suggested was only that was make and model that first came to mind. In no way am I recommending it, just to be clear. However there are very high speed models around. 5 years ago I did setup a few for movie streaming from pc to tv 200mbps units were fine. You have the choice of gigabit and faster models now!

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:51

          @dlf73: Ok. Will do some research too before buying. thanks bud

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 20:11

          @dlf73: Great stuff bro. Appreciated your help!

        • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 20:13

          @jeeg: most welcome. Sorry just saw my 2nd website paste not right. Just Google best powerline for reviews, etc.

      • StewBalls on 25/09/2016 - 19:36
        +3

        You won't get a definitive answer here, you haven't given enough info about the house for starters…there's a few variables that a decent tradie will need to take into account when planning his work.

        Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you don't have much experience with this stuff. Best to speak to your sparky…onsite!

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:37
          +1

          fair point stewballs. duly noted.

        • StewBalls on 25/09/2016 - 19:39
          +3

          @jeeg: Be sure to get 2-3 different quotes though, make sure the comments from each independent contractor match up too! ;)

        • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 19:43

          @StewBalls: and make sure you ask and see their credentials!

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:43

          @StewBalls: Yes will do that. thanks

        • StewBalls on 25/09/2016 - 19:44
          +1

          @dlf73: Yes, that's a very good policy before you let them start working on your property.

      • outlander on 25/09/2016 - 22:18

        Tiles? As in bathroom tiles?
        Generally, cables are run through the crawl space under the house, accessed by a manhole on the side of the house. Not by grabing a sledgehammer and creating a hole in the bathroom. Wires then run up the wall inside the cavity space, and are terminated where you need the outlet.

        • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 10:17

          Thanks mate. when you say "crawl space" I hope I understand this correctly as in not a physical space for people to "crawl" under the house but an access whereby sparky can reticulate their cables from/to. I don't think I can identify this kind of physical manhole…

        • outlander on 26/09/2016 - 11:50

          @jeeg:

          Well, its usually the apprentice that does the crawling. Sometimes a dog. If there's not one there already, and I don't know if this is to code, but they can put make one by knocking out a few bricks. All depends on the construction of your house, how high the floor is off the ground. Other times I've seen entrances created by cutting through the floor, usually in an out of the way place like a closet.

        • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 11:59
          +1

          @outlander: I hope you are not joking when you say a dog is the one that crawls through with cables in its mouth… :). The house is built on top of a concrete slab which I believed is 200mm high. I have not measured it but it looks that way.

        • outlander on 26/09/2016 - 15:01

          @jeeg:

          Haha only half joking. I heard a story of a sparky who looked under a house, saw a bunch of cobwebs, said no way am I going under there, so tied a rope to the owners dog, and got the owner to go around the other side and call him :P

          Concrete slab, might be out of luck there.

        • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 18:13

          @outlander: Thanks. while I don't feel better I feel better informed :)

        • StewBalls on 27/09/2016 - 00:17

          @outlander:

          Concrete slab, might be out of luck there.

          OP's dog might beg to differ, he's dodged a fireproof bullet! ;)

  • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 19:47

    I get the overall idea…engaging a sparky to quote for the job (and comparing quotes, see credentials, etc) but is it common (or not) for new wirings to be put through the ceilings of old houses?

    • dlf73 on 25/09/2016 - 20:06
      +5

      I am no sparky, so happy for one to correct me, but I would think they will follow path of existing wiring, barring any safety issue. A simple cut old wire at both ends, tape new wire to old wire and pull through and reconnect. Done.

      • outlander on 25/09/2016 - 22:24
        +3

        Depends on the house, but a lot of times it doesn't work that way. If the electrical wiring was installed when the house was built, it will be stapled to the stud making it hard to pull up like that.
        Likewise, if you have a room with a single brick dividing wall, the cable can be physically embedded in render. My man stewballs is right, there's too many details to consider. "Its an old house" doesn't cover it

        • dlf73 on 26/09/2016 - 15:49

          Ah really? I thought they stapled or clipped when running on side of beams etc, like in sheds. Its good to know, thanks.

    • aussieprepper on 26/09/2016 - 08:23

      My house is about that age and it's under the house. It depends on your foundation? Do you have a crawl space under the house?

      • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 10:15

        I walk around the house trying to find this crawl space…don' think I can identify anything that allows a sparky to run cables under the house…but i am not technical enough to know this for sure. I will find out more.

        • StewBalls on 27/09/2016 - 00:20

          Keep looking, you'll find it eventually…to assist you, go to Bunnings & ask for a left-handed hammer to help you gain access, and some striped paint to mark the ingress & exit points when you do find it.

          Sorry, I couldn't resist…

        • aussieprepper on 27/09/2016 - 13:30
          +1

          @StewBalls: Relax the best way to find a crawl space is to go and buy a longweight! Just ask at any hardware store for a longweight they will be glad to help you!

        • StewBalls on 29/09/2016 - 17:02

          @aussieprepper: I've preordered mine…thanks for the heads-up! ;)

  • BensonP on 25/09/2016 - 20:32
    +8

    Firstly you need to determine what asbestos product you have.

    http://www.electricalsolutions.net.au/content/business-and-m…

    If you have asbestos sheeting, most electricians will be happy to crawl through the roof. I always come prepared with the correct protective equipment and dust masks. Asbestos switchboards are EXTREMELY common and are worked on everyday.

    If you have asbestos insulation, 99% of electricians WILL NOT even think about going in a crawl space until they see some form of paperwork showing you've had the insulation tested.

    As for the rerunning of new cable, cutting and taping the cable to the old stuff and pulling it straight through is the way to go.

    Source: I am sparky

    • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 20:40

      Thanks mate. Very glad to have your input here. Answer my question totally.

      • StewBalls on 25/09/2016 - 20:50
        +8

        Dude, remember that you don't actually know for sure if you have any asbestos in your house…you're just making an assumption based on the vintage. You might be pleasantly surprised to find out that you don't…

        I have multiple properties spanning the 50's to 80's and none of them have asbestos in the house proper (sheds however, different story). That's why you should talk to the tradies first, if they're worth their salt then they will take one look & know exactly what they're dealing with…

        • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 20:56
          +3

          Very good point and I thank you. Yes I have not get an asbestos specialist to do an inspection. I will certainly do that. I guess I am just planning for the worse and hope for the best.

        • Dr Techno on 26/09/2016 - 20:59

          If you take the proper safety measures you can take your own samples and send them into a certified lab. I think its roughly around $50 to $90 per sample to get tested. Otherwise you can get someone to come onsite to take samples.

          Example company - http://envirolab.com.au/perth/asbestos-testing-33.htm

  • raytriplej on 25/09/2016 - 21:32
    +9

    The wiring my be ok and it could just be the GPO that is faulty.

    Only getting an electrician to test your circuits could confirm this.

    As for internet, I would be looking at other options to simplify
    the job (wifi or POE).

    I do commend you for considering the Asbestos risk. I think
    far too many people jump into these jobs without stepping back
    and considering these things.

    I am an electricain.

    • jeeg on 25/09/2016 - 21:33
      +1

      Thanks ray.

  • boccos on 26/09/2016 - 10:16

    Asbestos was mainly in Fibro sheeting used for walls and ceilings. In that state it is safe if left untouched. If the house has Asbestos tiled roof or soft insulation, forget it, it is too dangerous to deal with. Call in the experts. But be fair to Electicians, they need to check out the job and ensure they are happy to get into your ceiling.

    • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 10:23

      No I am not going to do the work myself. Am going to ask the right people to do the job but wanted to know if it is common for new wires to be installed to an old house. From this idea I get the idea that this is fairly common.

  • tanksinatra on 26/09/2016 - 10:17
    +1

    I have been in a similar situation. As ~90% of houses from that era contained asbestos (usually in the form of fibre cement sheeting), most electricians are very well equipped to manage any potential risks (usually dust from drilling). Loose fill insulation is a different story but I presume you are talking about cement sheeting.

    Technically speaking in this particular country data cabling needs to be done by a qualified professional. However politicians haven't yet found a way to ban screwdrivers, cable pliers and instructional you-tube videos, so it is up to you whether you choose to follow the letter of the law.

    • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 10:24

      Well…my thought is…if i am going to call in the sparky, might as well let him do all the work….

    • dlf73 on 26/09/2016 - 15:52
      +1

      Sorry just to confirm you are saying by law data cabling must be done by a registered installer? If so I take it that then also applies to cctv cables, and well any cable for that matter! Just wanting clarification as I did not know this may be the case!

  • ramshead on 26/09/2016 - 16:19

    What is faulty with the GPOs? Unless you've had rodent issues , the 1970 wiring should be fine. Is your earth leakage breaker tripping regularly?

    • jeeg on 26/09/2016 - 18:11

      No..no rodent issues. There is no power supply available from the GPOs. and no….the RCD did not trip….as suggested it is either the GPO faulty or the internal wirings. I will get the sparky to check.

      • Jackson on 27/09/2016 - 22:26

        Sorry are we talking about 1 GPO or a bunch? (3 I see from your post) Because the chance of more than on GPO being faulty is minuscule, even if they are 50 years old. That leaves you with a circuit problem. If breakers/fuses are fine, and the board is fine, the cabling is usually the last thing to go unless it was physically chewed by eg a rodent or someone changed something or overloaded something greatly. Cable is usually rated far higher than anything else in the electrical system and it follows that it usually isn't the issue

        • Euphemistic on 28/09/2016 - 08:38

          It is quite possible that the connection at the GPO wasn't done properly and has over time degraded to now not work.

  • raytriplej on 26/09/2016 - 22:31
    +1

    The main electrical problem with old houses is rubber wiring insulation which perishes and then you can end up with bare conductors that can cause electrocution/fire risks. The insulation liturally crumbles when it is flexed.

    I have been involved on many jobs myself gutting a house of all of the rubber wiring, disposing the asbestos switchboard and rewiring with new wiring/switcboard and associated circuit breakers/RCDS etc.

    I am releived to hear you have RCDs which are an excellent form of protection. Does your test button trip the breaker? If not the RCD may be faulty? RCDs are good but these will not replace the piece of mind that a full electrical inspection will give you.

    Only an electrician will be able to visually identify if you have cables that are old rubber insulation or the newer TPS (thermoplastic sheath) insulation. Your electrician will probably also do an insulation test. This will test the cable to double the working voltage which identifies any breakdown points.

    With any luck the electrician will give you good news.

    ** You will need an electrician to do all testing/electricial work. I recommend getting an electrician as soon as possible.

    • jeeg on 27/09/2016 - 00:06

      Thanks mate. The RCD does not trip but yes I am guilty of not pressing the test button to trip the breaker as a test. I will arrange for a time to do this. Have noted the insulation test as a scope of works for the Sparky when he comes for inspection.

      If the rubber insulation is deemed to be a risk for old houses (even though the wires may test okay for now but one day may still go kaput), does it make sense to do a complete re-wiring or not….given you are a sparky..what do you think?

    • Drifta on 27/09/2016 - 00:09

      "Your electrician will probably also do an insulation test. This will test the cable to double the working voltage which identifies any breakdown points."

      How does this work in practice? As in, how is it tested and what sort of results are you looking for?

  • raytriplej on 27/09/2016 - 21:33
    +2

    If I had rubber insulated wiring I would re-wire. The house would have to be pretty old though. Your original post said 1970s house so you might have nothing to worry about regarding rubber wiring. Only an inspection can tell. My parents house was 1970s and it had the new TPS wiring (asbestos switchboard and fibro though).

    This link below suggests houses older than yours had rubber wiring

    https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/water-energy-and-environment/el…

    Drifta - An insulation test does as I have suggested, applies double the working voltage to the conductors to help identify any breakdown of insulation. I am hesitant to give specific methods of testing and recommended results as I think this is best left to the on site electrician. I do not want to encourage non-electricians to start attempting their own tests. This is dangerous and illegal.

    There are a series of tests that your electrician can do. The insulation test is only one of them.

    • jeeg on 27/09/2016 - 22:35

      thanks mate. I will check if the cables have rubber insulated wirings.

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