How Free Food Brought down Guzman Y Gomez

Interesting read from IT News in relation to this Free Burrito deal.

He (GyG's CTO) said he didn’t realise quite how far people - mainly university students - would go to get their hands on free food when the marketing team came up with the idea of offering the first burrito ordered through the app at no charge.

“Some people figured out how to give themselves multiple coupons by changing certain details in the account - so we patched that up,” he said.

“But then we had students going out and buying new $2 SIM cards because we had phone level verification, and a $2 SIM card is cheaper than a $10 burrito.”

I guess with the prevalence of cheap/free sims and free debit cards it becomes quite difficult to police people using offers multiple times.

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Guzman y Gomez
Guzman y Gomez

Comments

  • Can't they IMEI lock the offer?

    • I don't think they can even check for that. If it's possible to get disposable emails, cheap sims and debit cards, there's really not much they can do.

      • +6

        Apps can access the device's ID. See here.

        Having a look at some of my installed apps (don't have the GyG). Deliveroo & Skip doesn't ask for ID. GoCatch, Uber & Oporto does via read phone status and identity. Just because they have that permission though doesn't mean they are actively enforcing opening multiple accounts. Also, its possible you could block the permission and have the app work.

        • +3

          Further in the article they mention they let their ssl Certs expire causing another outage. I don't think the schoolboys running their IT would be up to a technical solution.

        • +1

          Access to the device's ID was removed from iOS many years ago now. So I guess it would be only a partial solution (Android only).

      • there are plenty of ways they could do this actually
        ID verification for one is painless and only takes a matter of minutes
        simply upload your UNI ID with your Date of birth
        system then generates a one time code and bang problem solved

        Christ, if the UNI can install cameras that follow students around between blocks and gather stats surely GYG could implement some cost effective common sense solutions into their back end systems to ensure people don't scam them

        • +2

          ID verification, "painless"? a) it's a friction point, where you lose users because they're lazy, b) a decent number of people will outright refuse to do it, c) it's non-trivial from a technical perspective.

  • -1

    Damn, combination of cheap/free sim and debit cards? That's pretty sad and unethical. At least buy a drink or something on top to not completely scam them. On second thoughts, they probably go to the nearest convenience store and steal a bottle of coke just because they can get away with that too.
    They should just make the deal a buy one get one free burrito or something like that to deter these pathetic freeloaders.

    • +34

      They saw a loophole and took advantage of it. Half the people on Ozbargain would have done the same in their shoes.

      When I apply for a credit card to take the free points, get $500 worth of Woolworths vouchers and close the card is that the equivalent of going to a local convenience store and stealing a bottle of coke?

      Sounds like you have something against uni students.

      • +12

        Doing one thing unethical doesn't suddenly validate and allow all forms of scummy things to do. What entitles someone to multiple free burritos when clearly it's intended for one use? Because it's not technically illegal so you're given the green light? So ripping off a business with a loophole is totally ok but stealing a Coke bottle is now drawing the line? Is that not a loophole of security not checking customers as they leave?

        And no, I don't hate uni students, I am one myself. There's plenty of cheap eats around uni without having to stoop that low.

        • +25

          Stealing a Coke from a convenience store = Against the law.
          Getting a new sim card to get a free burrito = Against the terms and conditions.

          I just drew the line for you.

          Cheers! :)

        • -1

          @SnakeCasablanca: I'm aware. So anything that's not mentioned in the law is fine to abuse, got it. Didn't realise they needed to add common sense as a law.

        • +10

          @BlazinPast: Essentially you are correct. Outside the law you can only let your conscience be your guide. But after all is said and done, you are upset and offended at this situation whereas a lot of your uni colleagues are content and full of burritos!

          P.S. I didn't get a free burrito. But if I were at Uni I would probably have had many and slept very well after making my decison.

          :)

        • +4

          @SnakeCasablanca: trust me I'm not losing sleep if that's what you're concerned about. I'm more intrigued by people's vastly different ethical choices

        • +8

          Guess our politicians are the role models ……their perks aren't illegal but also not aligned to community expectations ….guess they set the bench mark …..if it's not illegal go for it.

        • +1

          @BlazinPast: You're both right - it's all gray areas in the end, but as a rule you just try and do the right thing and what you think is acceptable, without having to justify it to yourself.

        • +4

          @garage sale:
          Not at all!
          I have learned in life that you have to live by your on standards and morals. There will always by someone cheaper, meaner, more horrible you could point to but so what?
          If we all did that society would slip to the lowest level in no time.
          You need to live by your often morals and sense of right and wrong. Those choices all add up to how you will be remembered.

      • You're missing the point. Entirely.

      • +4

        Shouldn't we all be under the burden to be ethical? I actively try to (profanity) over Telstra for my own gain and even Woolworths is fair game to a point because I justify it by saying that they're global corporations so this is a drop in a pond for them and they don't have individual storefronts that would collapse just because of incidents like these where their sales are majorly dependant on a single product i.e. burritos. But this restaurant chain doesn't seem that big enough to ignore a hit like this. I'm not familiar with the costs of running a restaurant or the bottom line of the owner but I feel it's a real shitty thing to do to (profanity) over a "local" business like this just judging by the fact that I've never heard or seen of this chain in my whole life until now.

        I see this as crossing the line but if we're doing it just because we can, how can people expect politicians who have power to engage in countless greedy behaviours and are tempted with potential hundreds of thousands or in some cases millions of dollars to gain from selling out if we can't even control ourselves for a damn burrito unless you're like dirt poor. I realise what I'm saying is sort of a false dichotomy i.e. there's a difference between selling out for nest money vs squeezing out extra value out of your paycheck so your student debt is less crippling but this just seems like a bunch of people acting like greedy dicks.

        I just don't like that cut and dry statement of "They saw a loophole and took advantage of it." I think most people when they read that take that an admission that it's not a bad thing and inherently a good thing to do that to a business or justify it with "well, we're just helping out showing that businesses should lock their terms and conditions tight, for the greater good! /s"

  • +36

    Yes UNI students! Not just OZbargained lol At least Ozbargain now has a fall guy!

    • well they do open a ton of GYG on uni campuses. the 2 i go to (UQ and QUT) both have GYG on campus

    • +3

      Guys we need to get our story straight. Whenever we are blamed for anything just divert the attention to uni students… Sorry, those damn Bachelor of Arts students crashed the entire eBay website, again. Not us!!

  • +9

    Bit of an assumption to blame university students, considering GYG don't actually have that information

    • +4

      They might look at the coupon usage by outlet. The coupon usage in Randwick, NSW (right next to UNSW) was probably much higher than in North Sydney.

    • +6

      I suspect they would have flagged some of the duplicate accounts (looking at billing details) and then see that one at a gmail account and another a uni email account.

    • +1

      there is a GYG in UNSW and during the first few days of the free burrito came out, the store was packed at around lunch time.

      • +1

        Can confirm - people in my software engineering class found a way to cheat the app without requiring multiple sims, and went twice a day throughout the promotion

    • -1

      Bit of an assumption to say GYG have it wrong when you don't actually have that information

      • I didn't say GYG has it wrong… seems like you're making the assumptions

        • You appeared to be saying you know something more about this than the company involved or at least they they wouldn't/couldn't know about the people involved in abusing the offer. What makes you think they don't have information about what happened? As the CTO he would be accountable for the losses involved in this promo and I'm sure if he is competent in his job at all he wouldn't be reporting to the CEO and other executives that "it was some kids from uni?" "based on what?" "based on nothing, just a personal guess, you know what they're like". As someone else suggested elsewhere in this thread, they may have seen a significantly disproportionate spike in free burrito claims around the uni stores relative to the also highly frequented CBD stores.

        • -1

          @cxeq:

          oh ok no need to explain, just tell me to shut up. friendly bunch

  • +9

    Should've simply asked to check ID. That would've solved it.

    • +2

      How would this work in practice? They wait until you turn up in the store to check your ID, make sure it matches the account name and that you don't have another account? I doubt a minimum wage worker has the tenacity to do all of that.

      I've seen some apps take a photo of your ID, run some OCR etc … but that would just kill your user base completely.

      • +2

        it works for many other companies
        Why lock it down to your licence
        valid birth date, one time redemption and a quick check of your ID
        Quite simple really and even a 15yo counter clerk could work that out

        What gets me is the same people violate the system and the store manager does not bat an eyelid to whats going on

        Clueless

        • +6

          quick check of your ID

          I think you missed the point. Checking ID isn't quick - to do it properly, you need to run it through a database to make sure it hasn't been used before.

        • +4

          Obviously you haven't been to a busy GYG. In the Brisbane CBD the burritos were already literally piling up on the counter. I can't even imagine what it would have been like if they were doing 100 point I'd checks too.

    • +1

      They don't check the orders, I always have to ask the drinks I ordered

    • -1

      Could have gone further and required ID verification electronically via the app.

      • Then no one will get the free stuff and use the app.

        • You'd get A free burrito, which was the intent of the app. Personally I think it's absolute overkill for a fast food joint though.

        • @SirFlibbled:
          Who love to verify using ID? And how GYG going to verify ?they do not and will not able to access this data for verification?
          Just want to point out your concept of ID verfication is not fessible.

        • -1

          @LoveBargain15: Sure they can verify it. Google the Document Verification Service.

        • @SirFlibbled: So I googled it and this is noted down in their T&C

          Organisations must abide by the DVS terms and conditions of use, which include having an approved reason for using the DVS, client consent, ICT security and other matters. There will be occasional audits of users to ensure requirements are met.

          Honestly, they'd better off giving away free burittos than going down this path.

        • -1

          @jkcat: As I said, it's absolute overkill but it can be done.

  • Damn $5 one expired :( I think the app is a good idea though, the queues there at lunch are quite long

  • +16

    He (GyG's CTO) said he didn’t realise quite how far people - mainly university students - would go to get their hands on free food

    LOL, seriously…what rock has that dunce been living under…

    • +9

      If I had time to waste, I'd enjoy a day in the sun, sitting in a park across from a 7/11 near a University when the $2 sandwiches deal is on

      • That actually sounds pretty enticing at this point in time. :)

        • $2 sandwich deal is back in Wednesday's :)

      • +2

        O week and union free sausage sizzles were my go tos at uni.

        If only ozb existed back then for free burritos

        • i'm in my 3rd year and go to o week every semester - even go to market day at uni's i don't go to for freebies

    • +1

      Probably was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and never had to worry about the next meal during Uni days, assuming he went to Uni.

      • +3

        or he's just a hardworking entrepreneur who didn't expect so many scumbags to exploit his generosity.
        People who do cheat like this are absolute scum.

        • +1

          If he's not thinking one step ahead of the hackers who can think laterally, unlike him (and also letting his SSL cert expire) I'm not sure anybody should trust this "hardworking" CTO (employee, not entrepreneur) with their infrastructure.

        • You word it as if the pure intention of a promotion is to be "generous". Yes, as consumers we will get a free burrito which is our side of the win. What is their win? They get people downloading their app, trends on the app/play store.

          They're investing time and/or money into something because they expect a return. If they haven't thought it through properly, closed some loopholes of which the impact could've been alleviated by setting an end date, then who's to blame? There will be crooks/unethical people out there and this has to be factored in as part of your planning.. if you don't factor it in, then there'd be no need for firewalls, security guards, police.

          Getting an app trending on the apple/android app store is priceless.

          From here

  • +13

    My solution is more simple.

    They should have allowed this free burrito/$5 burrito promotion to only run for a couple of days instead of weeks.

    • +3

      Shouldn't have allowed the deals at peak time either.

  • -5

    Seriously
    simply could of done an ID / Age validation from a licence for each sale and limit it to one per person

    Uni Students always ruin it for the average punter wanting a free feed, you would have to be stupid to not work out the same people are coming in each day claiming a free buritto and then doing it day after day

    Simple methods implemented could of solved this whole issue locking it down to your ID with a valid date of birth and one time redemption process
    clearly not much common sense happens in the realm of the GYG head office

    • Agree on the first half. Second half, maybe they were just a bit naive and didn't realise how selfish people could be?

  • The lengths that some people go to in order to get a free/discounted feed is ridiculous. I'm a uni student and can't fathom why people would spend so much effort to get a burrito. It's not worth much, and $10 is not a huge amount of money anyway.

    • +5

      Uni student is always willing to spend. People who earn for living is a realtight ass,spend $10 for burrito is lurxary so some tightass.every cents count

      • +1

        I don't know why you're getting negged for the truth, the days of the struggling uni student are long gone IME…especially the international students, who more often than not come from very privileged families nowadays.

        Working class families really have become the new financial underclass in our society…fact.

        • +6

          Thank you for your support, people in here do not like to hear to fact.

        • -1

          The days of the whinging uni student are well and truly here though. They love to complain about how hard the world is without actually doing anything about it. This is based on my experience from the better part of the last decade at uni.

        • i see plenty of students (local and international) with designer clothing, macbooks, high-end smartphones and beats headphones, living off snacks and drinks from vending machines as well as overpriced uni food.

        • There are plenty of overseas students that do not come from a well off back ground and pay tens of thousands every month whilst being limited to working no more than 20 hours as well.

    • +2

      Yes but a lot of people have a real shortage of money but a lot of time. Work isn't always so easy to find. So some people really don't mind going above and beyond for something like this which at $10 a pop for a burrito (+ extra for guac and cheese) is a bit more than I'd like to pay too.

      Just to be clear though the nearest GYG to me is not close and I never took up this deal once. I probably wouldn't have gone to the effort for multiple but I totally understand why someone would.

      • +2

        it's wrong. It's unethical. It's blatant exploitation and unethical.

        • -2

          Are we talking about multinational tax avoidance?

          That's costing the economy far more than the odd uni student or bludger.

        • +1

          You're right, there's no arguing the facts. It's wrong and unethical. There are scales of unethical though. There's using your hungry jacks vouchers for months after they've expired (guilty of this) and there's bypassing software checks to score free food from a relatively small company.

          Then there's employing children to make your clothes in a sweatshop and turning a blind eye to potential human rights violations for profit. All of these things are unethical but it's a bit much to tar the uni student scoring a free burrito with the same brush. I think it's a bit extreme.

          It's dodgy but as far as I can see it's fair game really, if they'd have just talked to even the most casual ozbargainer for a 'stinge test' most of us could have seen it coming.

          I've created virtual machines running android to score multiple one-off vouchers before, it seems we are living in a golden age of less than savvy marketers because these simple tricks won't last forever.

    • +2

      I'm quite sure that the majority of the 'frequent flyers' were those who found a loophole in the app without having to activate multiple sims, ie. each additional burrito was no more work than the previous one.

  • +2

    well for most of the promotion they have had free burritos available but not $5 burritos which doesn't make sense. i don't assume its just uni students. but i do think alot of the people on here are ungreatful and they will take the free food but never support the business otherwise and infact even whinge about the normal price and encourage others not to buy.

  • +2

    SSL certs expiring is clearly incompetence, can hardly be attributed to the campaign. Although the campaign certainly amplified the reputational damage.

  • -4

    crappy Guzman burritos…eew

    • +2

      Go back to your activated almonds

  • +6

    They are mistaken to single-out uni students considering the frequency of sim card deals on Ozbargain and our propensity for nabbing freebies

    We shall continue to work from the shadows, bringing businesses down one by one. /s

    On a more serious note not that I ever participated in the promotion; at least they'll have the opportunity to re-examine their marketing strategies in the future. It's interesting how that Italian restaurant was quick to catch on during their Olympics promotion.

  • +3

    I did the same thing with dominos before claiming free pizzas with 2 accounts. I had enough dignity to not go to my local dominos the second time only to find it was the same guy who served me at the other shop the day before! He remembered me too but only gave me a cheeky smile.

    • +1

      Cheeky smile.. I would be very worry about my pizza if I were you. -)

  • +15

    I never underestimate students after watching young people in a Hong Kong Pizza Hut load their free salad buffet plate with 20 times what should be possible. They use carrot sticks and cucumber to make the plate three times the area then build a tower of babel with everything. There is no outsmarting the ingenuity and call of free.

    • +1

      Yeah, but that's their national sport!

    • we were all young once.. sigh

  • +3

    Oracle … Expired SSL certs … Letting people scam them for free food for weeks. What clowns

  • +9

    University students doing a Ozbargain degree.

  • +4

    I don't think it was a good idea to offer free buritos in the first place. I certainly enjoyed the deal as a customer, however, I still have my doubts that it was worth for the business.

    My point is simple: every free food promotion gets abused. In the end it is not good both for business and its customers who spend lots of time waiting for their meals because there are way to many people who want free food as well (Vapiano's case).

    I think the best promotion is one that offers a substantial discount over regular price, e.g. $5 dollar burritos or 50% off, etc. In that case people enjoy the deal and it does not get abused.

    • +3

      $5 burrito wont get people to install the app. A free burrito will.

      Getting an app trending on the apple/android app store is priceless. You can't put a price on that sort of publicity. I doubt the 'serial abusers' made up a big proportion of the free burritos. From the remaining 'legit' users GyG would only need to repeat business from a few to break even on the cost of the freebies.

      I think management knew exactly what they were doing (even if the CTO didn't).

      • "I doubt the 'serial abusers' made up a big proportion of the free burritos."

        But I thought that was the point of the article and a claim made the GyG CTO. That it was a big issue for them, not just a footnote to an otherwise successful promotion.

        That's the people that abused the hell out of the free burritos. They didn't even get started on the hit-it-and-quit-it $5 burrito folks like myself. Sorry GyG, I just don't pay more than about $8.50 for lunch/dinner where I can avoid it.

        • But I thought that was the point of the article and a claim made the GyG CTO

          I didn't get that impression from the article. The free burittos abuse was one of several issues. Let's not get into a English comprehension exercise though.

          You can tell the CTO isn't the sharpest tool in the shed though, with a statement like this: "a $2 SIM card is cheaper than a $10 burrito". No one on the app was paying $10+ for a burrito.

          The choice for app users was $5 burrito vs $2 sim + 15mins of dicking around signing up/swaping sims.

          That's why I suspect the serial abusers were a very small proportion and a calculated strategy by management

        • @sp00ker:

          But the $2 sim card could be used to create a new account and with that came a free burrito, as distinct from the usual $10 cost. That deal appears to have been running for about 5 weeks. The $5 burrito deal via the same app came later and only ran for about a week and a half.

          I don't care that much I just can't seem to match up what you're saying with the stuff I'm reading.

          I'm also underslept today so my apologies if I'm missing something.

        • @hetzjagd:

          The $5 burrito deal via the same app came later and only ran for about a week and a half.

          I didn't realize that - I thought they both run concurrently for the same period. I guess they introduced the $5 burrito to combat the free burrito abuse.

        • @sp00ker:

          No sorry :) The $5 burrito deal was announced at the same time as the free burrito deal, but it wasn't made available until later. Once people got their free one they peppered GyG social media and the OzB deal page asking when then $5 burritos would be available and they made a second statement saying a date was still to be announced. I don't know why I can't let it go, I just loved those cheap burritos so much

  • +6

    I stumbled upon a video of CEOs whose ambitious plans were foiled by suspected "university students". Senor Guzman appears at 22 seconds: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hXUqwuzcGeU

  • +1

    I remember i Domino's free garlic bread offer we had freezer full for the garlic bread. my uni day live on pizza and garlic bread.

  • My app didn't even come with a free sign up burrito, had to get them to reissue me one.
    Quite unethical how people are willing to continuously exploit this promotion.

  • Are they still accepting them? Still haven't used mine because I don't live near any.

  • So much effort just for a burrito

    Students must be poor these days

  • They really needed testers with an Ozbargain mentality…

  • -1

    Is the free burrito still available? was thinking of using it next Friday (16/09) but I don't know if it'll be available by then I checked the ozbargain deal and hasn't been marked as expired, and unfortunately I can't download the app to find out until I get home as Netflix blew my usage limit :(

    • Well you still have 10 days to get home and find out…

      • -2

        would have been easier to have said yes or no ;)

        • +1

          I suppose it's still on. It doesn't say anywhere that it's ended. I can't check on my app because I've already claimed mine.

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