Job move after disappointing review

Hi OzBargainers,

Long time listener, first time caller.

Bit of a dilemma which I would like the collective input on.

My situation (take these with a pinch of salt. I don't want to be identified by friends/colleagues)
30s, Male
Anglo Saxon origin (I am going to say U.K for ease of writing)
1 baby (1 more on the way) + wife (Doesn't work)
$15k savings
$30k in super
Rent ($3200 month with 45min commute each way)
No debt or other assets

The above is low because I spent all my life savings on education (I have a BA, MSc & PhD) , and only recently moved to Australia (2 Years).

Work in financial sector (Derivatives Pricing)
Current salary $150k + Super (so about $165k inc super)
Contract says $15k bonus + bonus tied to performance of firm.
Been with them 2 years and never had raise/bonus before, and at current review got told another 12 months of no pay rise and 0 bonus.
Claims company wise they aren't doing great etc, when I know this is a lie.
This is a fairly large hedge fund, with offices in London and Sydney.

Contacted a few agents and they have proposed a couple of job options:
1) $160k-$170k inc super with a bonus of up to 100%
2) $140-190k inc super with a bonus of up to 50%

The second job has the opportunity of relocation to Houston (Texas), which is really interesting as I am getting quite tired of Australia.
Texas has a 0% Income tax, and housing is so cheap.
Plus it's an adventure.

We find Australian tax rates really high together with the cost of housing/cars/living in Sydney.
On current salary I don't manage to save anything each month.
We would love to buy but a decent unit is $1m, with a house around $1.5m in Sydney.

I actually enjoy my job, and if it wasn't for the financials, I would stay.

What are your thoughts.
Thank you!

UPDATE: 2 Sept 2016
Ended up taking option 2.
The job will be 2 years in Sydney then 2 years in Houston.
Salary quoted was actually in USD (250k AUD + bonus of $125k AUD) , plus managed to get a sign on bonus of $100k AUD.

Thank you to all the people who took the time to read and understand my actual dilemma, rather than villify me for having an expensive rent and not having saved up much so far.

I see no joy in saving $200 a week in rent and live somewhere undesirable to me, when I could fight harder at work and more than make up the difference.
This wasn't supposed to be a thread asking how I can save a few hundred dollars by living frugal.

I was asking about leaving an employer who didn't deliver on their promise and 2 jobs, one with a much higher bonus component, which as per my (now former) employer, is never guaranteed.

Whilst the other option had a higher base and lower bonus, it also has the opportunity to move to another country in a couple of years time, at their expense.

From my limited time on this forum, it appears that if you are not a property owner, make too much money in your job, are not saving every possible cent you earn by seriously compromising your lifestyle, you will be villified and called a moron.

I came here for advice, which from the small minority, I got.
The vast majority scalded me for spending so much on rent, and wondering where the rest of my salary went.

I never needed advice in that camp. I gave a transparent assessment of my situation for full disclosure.
I am more than capable to save.

I hope to remain an active member, and enjoy the passionate discussion, but this first experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Best of luck to you all in your quest for bargains.

Comments

        • +1

          She may as well stay at home because it would cancel out any benefits of her working.

          @Serapis: Only if work is part-time, not otherwise. I assume child care cost is somewhere around $20-22k a year.

        • he probably is not entitled to centrelink baby support money.

          Nor should he.

  • +32

    You possibly need a perspective shift - Australia doesn't have the highest income tax rates but it's higher than 0%. What we get for that is strong public healthcare, well funded schools, roads that are maintained and a strong support system for those less fortunate. If you're more libertarian leaning, this might not be the country for you.

    You are very close to, if not in the top 1% of earners - maybe be grateful for what you have? Learn to live within your ample means?

    • Agreed totally, but isn't 'maintained roads' a too basic need that government fulfills at least in any developed nation anyway?

      Also, public healthcare being strong or not is highly debatable. If you have gone through a wait period of several months for a specialist's appointment or a surgery, you would know how strong it is. I am not even starting on ambulance cost yet.

  • +25

    Worked in Houston, NY and Jakarta before, Melbourne is the best. Even then I won't be complaining about those other cities. They are just different, and I am grateful for the job opportunities those cities gave me.

    OP sounds like an ungrateful person. I don't think he will be happy anywhere, there will always be something better elsewhere for him

    • +11

      Melbourne is the best.

    • Worked in Houston, NY and Jakarta before, Melbourne is the best.

      In what sense? Salaries? Jobs? Lifestyle? and How? Explanation appreciated.

      • They all have their +- (traffic, health care, shopping centres, parks, people) but Melbourne is the best for raising family for me. With Australian excellent health care system (compared with the horror of US health care before the ACA/Obamacare) plus Melbourne's air quality and excellent transport system (less road congestion and great public transport despite the age of most of its trains) I think it is safe to say that Melbourne is the best for me. People have different opinions, this is just mine.

        Also I spent my childhood years in Memphis and Nashville and my memories of them are quite rosy also :)

    • -1

      I've worked in Hong Kong, Tokyo, port moresby, Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney and Wollongong. Melbourne and Sydney are at the bottom of my list.

      Does that make me ungrateful?

      • Just curious.. what industry or company did you work in Wollongong? It is odd one out in the list. Reminds me of 'circle the odd one' puzzle. lol.. may be Port Moresby too.

        • A bit late with this but anyway…legal work. The odd ones out were specific but long term (ie 12 months+) projects; when I was young and able to move around. A few years in Asia and cities in Australia. I've only worked for 3 employers over 20 years or so, I'm not flitting around between jobs; but I work in a reasonably specialist area and projects come up all over the place

        • @dtc: Ok.. Does Wollongong have any large company's office even?

    • I lived in Jakarta for 17 years and now couldn't even stand it for more than a couple weeks.

  • +17

    On current salary I don't manage to save anything each month.

    stop spending it on useless stuff
    there is people out there on <70k with a kid or 2 and still can save…….

    • +8

      listen to this guy!~ average joe with wisdom words…
      even if OP has $500k salary he might have 5 childrens, villa, and sport cars and then complaining of no saving

    • +5

      stop spending it on useless stuff

      that's like the antithesis of OzBargain…

      • Wiser words have never been spoken

    • By nothing I mean I probably have 2k left a month.
      Not enough to buy property.

  • +4

    I've heard Houston is good for astronomers as the stars at night are big and bright.

    If they are holding out on bonuses when you have been performing then leave. you have no loyalty or ties to them. and hence no need to stay.

    • +3

      With a handle like "syneybeachguy" wont be the same as "houstonstarguy"

      • I think I prefer HoustonStarGuy to be honest :)

  • +1

    i have lived in many places accross the globe but I still call australia home.

    I am not sure why you are "getting quite tired of Australia. "

  • +6

    texas might have 0% income tax but you still need to pay federal income tax.

    the US really isnt a low-tax country. australian taxes are actually quite reasonable given the services we get in exchange.

    that being said, i can definitely understand a desire to move overseas - ive just moved to melbourne from adelaide and while melbourne is awesome, if i got an opportunity to move and live overseas at my age/career level for decent money, id probably take it.

    that also being said, you are living way beyond your means if you cant save anything on your salary, even in sydney. in melbourne i earn probably 15% less than you and still pocket around $4k savings per month (i do live quite frugally in a share house though - going to buy a house shortly and move in with my girlfriend).

    if you go to the US make sure your employer gives you great health insurance - if anything ever goes wrong health-wise for you or your family, you will need it there.

  • +13

    So after PAYG tax and rent, you have $5426 a month and are unable to save? What are you wasting it on?

    • +12

      probably hookers and cocaine.
      or the wives hand bag collection

      • or the wives hand bag collection

        If he's using his salary to buy them, he's doing it wrong.

      • +10

        24k a year, not savings?

        most would take that anyday

      • +6

        What do you spend $3500 on per month? Your disposable income is some people's total household income.

        • +1

          Utilities will cost you about $400 a month. Food about $1000 a month, babies need to food to grow up. Car loan looking at about $1000 a month. Insurance, internet, phone another $200. So you have $900 left from the $3500. If you go out for dinner once a week, you have nothing left.

      • +9

        Wow, for someone so educated you're pretty deluded about real life.

        • +3

          If you deposited 2k per month for 30 years into a 4% interest account, after 33 year you would have 1.6 million to your name

          https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/tools-and-resources/calculator…

        • +1

          where can I find a 4% interest account? :P

          @btst7000:

        • @btst7000: Could also afford to buy a house and quickly pay off the mortgage. OP won't have to pay rent for the rest of his life.

        • @khonfahm: Invest in any good stock market index

        • +1

          @btst7000: After 33 years, 1.6M won't carry as much value though. Plus, depositing 2K every single month for 30 long years, isn't too easy. You might have tough times in between such as job loss, injury, recession, theft, what not. This looks good on calculators for sure though.

        • Hahah

          Unfortunately high IQ don't always translate to high EQ

          You put a high IQ person on an island, he/she probably won't survive for more than 2 days.

  • +1

    Move to Switzerland. Safe, clean, honest. Low income Tax and excellent salary. Good school system.

    • +1

      Good call.

      Thank you for actually reading my post.

      • +4

        Don't worry about people being douches. They're just sad. There's enough kind and real people who Will listen to you and actually understand where you're coming from. Probably about 20-30% of the total morass
        but there's enough :)

    • +1

      I thought I read somewhere that Switzerland is the most expensive place to live in the world for expats. Japan and Singapore were up there too.

      • +1

        Yes. IF:
        You always eat in restaurants.
        You stay in Hotels.
        If you go out often.
        If you shop in the main street in Zurich Down Town.
        If you have an apartment in Zurich Down Town.
        If you send your kids to private school ( which is ridiculous ).

        Once you stop living the high-flyer Expat Life, and behave like a normal person, and find your way around, the salary you get, combined with low taxes, allows you to save a truckload of money. Combine that with an extremely strong currency, and you will have a massive buying power when returning to OZ.

        For example, you can deduce 100% from your salary, what you put into the local Super ( Called Pensions-Kasse )
        If you want to withdraw, when you move overseas, and you use the right way, you will be taxed around 3%.

        You can deduce CHF 6000 for every kid.

        If you need a car to go to work, ( travel by public transport would take 1H more ) you can deduce those expenses from Salary.

        If you work in Switzerland for more then 2 years, you qualify, in case of unemployment for 70% of your salary, up to a max of ~6500 a month.

        Unemployment is low, and for skilled people, who really want to work, practically non-existent.

  • +6

    ah.. look at OP name.. sydney beach guy…
    of course.. we feel you man… its hard to live NOT next to the beach..
    what a wonderful view each morning.. sit at balcony with pretty wife and adorable baby…. and $150k salary.

    WOW. what a beautiful country we live on…

    • tell me about it lol

      and don't know how you can just move to USA just like that, don't you need a green card?
      unless i didn't read or missed the part where he said he has dual citizenship?

      • nah probably company sponsored. kind of work permit. it is possible.

      • My new employer, the insurance company, would sponsor me.

        Plus with a PhD it's pretty easy to get a green card even if I wanted to self sponsor.

        • yeah true if you got your company to sponsor you then yeah that makes it easier

      • Their H1B visa is near-equivalent of our 457 visa. OP never said he's moving on his own.

  • +3

    just don't fall ill in Texas. Or have anyone in your family needing urgent medical services, because the bills will break your bank.

    • +3

      US medical costs lol… 10 days in an American hospital for 5 EEG scans (minor head trauma) costs $250,000 from experience.

      • But literally everyone has private or employer-sponsored insurance though. So, it's like saying if we didn't have a medicare, blah blah blah..

        • +1

          My point exactly.

          Countries like the US, with very little safety net, are problematic for the lower portion of the income distribution.

          If you have an employer which covers insurance, plus a decent salary, I don't see the issue.

          A case of armchair experts it would seem.

  • +3

    150k wow. I wouldn't be complaining. You're living in one the best and highest rated countries in the world. I'd really put things into perspective for your families sake. With the current debt the USA is in and NATO on Russias border. A move to the USA especially with their current economic debt (up towards 20 trillion) would probably not be a wise decision. I live on the Gold Coast and trying to find work here is crazy. I am in no way a graduate so I'm stuck in shitty jobs with low pay. But you really need to rethink where you are at and what we do get here in regards to medical etc. Melbourne has been rated the best city in the world 2 times running. So maybe a move to start again with new surroundings?

    • +3

      Six times running.

    • I live on the Gold Coast and trying to find work here is crazy. I am in no way a graduate so I'm stuck in shitty jobs with low pay.

      It's not too different for graduates too, I guess. That's the main pain in our cities.

  • +17

    Thank you all for your comments.

    I think most of you missed the mark as my real issue was with staying with current employer or changing for something more lucrative.

    I am not really concerned about my current savings situation, as 1 bonus of $150k should pocket me $100k net. Few years of that and I should have enough for a deposit.
    My true salary should always have been around the 300k mark, so living on 150k is quite conservative. It's just that the 150k I have to live on day to day, and bonus comes in as one lump.

    The Sydney/Texas job was actually in USD I later found out, which I have been offered yesterday evening.
    We settled on $200k USD (265k AUD) and 50% bonus, with a 100k AUD sign on bonus.
    2 year rotation in each city (Sydney-Houston), with a comprehensive medical/illness/Life and disability insurance.

    They are actually a large insurance company, hence why the great insurance coverage.

    The tough bit will be handing in my resignation today and starting a new adventure with an unknown team and in 2 years a new city, but I guess that is part of life, trying out the unknown.

    • +6

      Congrats. Hope you enjoy the work and adventure. Good to hear focusing on education set you up with options.

    • +1

      Nice work, can't complain about that. Now to change my career… :)

    • +15

      Sounds exciting, this whole post comes off as a brag post then a dilemma though…

    • +13

      It's just that the 150k I have to live on day to day

      You shouldn't be on anything other than what you are paid and signed on to do. You never factor in a bonus…a bonus isn't an obligation but a reward for your job. I believe the OzBargain community is harsh but fair and we all like to see each other doing well.

      To say it's 'just' $150k is a joke in itself. There's a good portion of Australia who earn half of what you are on and they live a happy life with more than 1 dependant. Others are on 1/3 of your salary and they have a roof over their heads.

      It's good to find bigger and better opportunities, the moment you are content with life or feel like your employer is playing you for a fool, it's time to move on. I agree with that, but to put it down to your coulda shoulda woulda pay as a sizeable argument is kind of snobby and annoying.

        • +35

          Dude…you sound like a dick. Airports that way.

        • +14

          If people don't earn much, it is up to them to improve their situation.

          Some people have a bad start in life, out of them some can recover and some cannot. It is not always possible to improve the situation.

          I make millions of dollars for my bosses, so I do feel it would be "fair" for me to have a small portion of that.

          This is how every business works. I do a labouring job and I work my ass off physically to make a small portion of profit for the company along with thousands of other workers. I get a tiny portion of the profit, most of the profit that we workers make goes towards profit shared between management salary, rent, interest on the bank loans and dividend for the shareholders. This money is eventually squandered in speculative trading in stock markets.

          I am also aware that I could have lost them a lot of money, in which case I would not be liable for anything, but probably lose my job.

          If you can do that job on your own then you should've done it by now, fact is that you as an individual do not have that sort of capability to raise finance and even take impact of huge losses.

        • +2

          @StiffHindQuarters: i second your comment. We all work our asses off. we don't all have the same start-line or gifts as others but we still make-do and live reasonably comfortable lives.

        • +3

          No vilification meant on my behalf.
          It was the way I read your post that made it seem you were complaining about the quality of life in Australia when you are earning $150k and you were spending all of it and not being able to save.

          This to many people would rub them the wrong way. And you did ask peoples thoughts without clarifying their thoughts on what.

          I went back and re-read your post along with the heading and I think you needed to clearly state what are people's thoughts on moving to another country and leaving a job you enjoy in australia for a more 'lucrative' role.

          Further to the above it's a complicated post once you include rental and property prices etc.

          this forum is full of people that will jump at anyone for any reason but there are good people here as well.
          don't let this one thread deter you.

          btw good luck with the job move.

        • @zeggie:

          Apologies I made you feel that way.

          Didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way.
          :-)

        • +1

          @zeggie:

          Apologies if I rubbed you the wrong way.
          I was just venting some frustration.
          :-)

        • @SydneyBeachGuy: I keep telling the wife, that living in Sydney isn't expensive. Prada, Chanel are cheap. We just don't earn enough. So go out make more money.

        • +2

          @StiffHindQuarters:
          You are 100% correct.

          I don't have the means to start my own hedge fund or global insurance company.

          I have found an employer who values my time more, and I have no obligation to my current employer.

          If I feel I am not being remunerated enough, then I vote with my feet.

          I walked.

        • -2

          @zealmax:

          Ha, if you think that you are buying Prada and Chanel on 150K then you are dreaming.

        • @SydneyBeachGuy: I buy from BigW at the end of season sales. That is what I can afford.

      • +8

        I believe the OzBargain community is harsh but fair and we all like to see each other doing well.

        I'm not sure I agree entirely. I see a celebration of frugality, for frugality's sake, on a rather large number of threads. Admittedly, that mindset is rather useful when one is rather financially constrained. However, the bollocking OP is getting is unwarranted. Different people have differing priorities, and what may be an acceptable compromise for some, may not be for others. :)

        There's a good portion of Australia who earn half of what you are on and they live a happy life with more than 1 dependant. Others are on 1/3 of your salary and they have a roof over their heads

        This is true and OP should not be so blaise about this. That said, I must say that for a lot of expats, the numbers don't tell a true picture. The quality of life afforded by $150k can be substantially lower due to a significantly higher cost of living.

        @OP,

        I work in a team with origins from all over the world, and our salaries are comparable to yours as well. However, a number of members of my team have had to make substantial quality of life changes to allow for saving money in Australia… especially the folks without dual income households. Invariably, some decide to move overseas for more (relevant) experience as well as money.

        One of my very close friends, brought his fam across from Europe, and worked with a Multinational Defence/Aerospace firm for a bit more than a year after moving to the financial sector. He is exceptionally skilled (and is almost somewhat of a "celebrity" in my domain) and is presently takes home something in the $150k region. Due to a number of unfortunately circumstances, their stay in Australia has been rife with issues (both financial and social; some in part due to the ineptitude of the employer, e.g. missing super payments resulting in ATO kicking up a major fuss). The kids were also having a tough time in Australia due to a myriad of rather laughable reasons (e.g. harassment from some other parents who took umbrage to them packing hot meals for their kids etc). Thankfully things are looking up for them as they've decided to move again for almost 2x increase in wages, with "family expenses" like education, travel etc covered by the employer, and a 50% STIP. :) Yet, they're happy that they took the decision to move to Australia, as they made true friends who will always be there for them.

        The reason behind me telling you the above is to convey that sometimes it is okay to take risks. :) Treat this as an opportunity. One of my other colleagues worked in Texas for almost a decade at a tech giant (household name ;) ). They definitely recommend it!

        Buying a property in Sydney is something that requires a fair bit of forward planning. There is a lot to it.

        • I notice some cringe-worthy grammatical errors in the above. My sincerest apologies!

        • Hey i think your comment will dig deeper into OP's post than any of ours. You earn the same but see the world from both sides which makes you miles ahead of OP based on your mindset.

        • -2

          Thank you for taking the time to formulate a coherent answer, rather than some spiteful, mildly xenophobic comment.

    • +2

      Congrats and good luck

    • Well done on the new chapter

    • By the way, does the new company need a skilled, experienced Java developer? I have 4 years of experience in (re)-insurance business ( with SCOR-Switzerland )

      • I have no idea! I will start in about 3 months, as I have notice + garden leave to serve out.

        Will get back to you once I begin.

        • Please don't forget about it in 3 months' time. :)

        • +2

          @virhlpool:

          After his abuse in later posts, I don't think I will.
          How odd. First ask for a favour, then claim I am a fraud and will be found out that I am no good at my job.

          I am quite baffled.

        • @SydneyBeachGuy: yes. I never stop to surprise people.

    • +1

      All the best for your future endeavors :)

      • Thank you for the encouraging words. :-)

  • I'm kind of in the same boat as OP. I'm sick of sydney! But in reality, I'm just homesick. I've been living here for too long and I miss my family and friends back home.

    I would do what you did, take up the offer from the company that has the potential to send you elsewhere. Especially while your child is still a baby, he/she still has no attachment here (eg friends). The longer you wait, the harder it gets to move.

    Congrats and I envy you for the financial security you'll have when you move across the globe.

  • +9

    I lived in USA for 6 years. If you think there is $0 income tax in Houston then you absolutely do not understand US tax. There are 3 levels, city, state, and federal. You WILL pay income tax in USA, and plenty of it. There is also no national health. You also need to properly research what is meant by a "right to work" state.

    It is obvious to me why you have received no bonuses if this is the quality of your research. I think I can guess where the PhD came from too.

    • Hi Gershow,

      Thank you for your useful response
      I am was just stating that compared to California, or NY, there would be quite a saving. Fully aware of the various tax levels.

      If another employer was willing to compensate me for what they saw was market value in their eyes, why should I turn that down?

      I will be in Sydney for the next 2 years, and then move to Houston.
      If they are providing a very comprehensive medical insurance package, and I have $400k a year to play with, what more should I be considering before doing the move?
      Look forward to your response as you lived there before.

      I have signed their offer and handed in my resignation today.

      I am very curious as to where you think my PhD came from?

      • +9

        Bombay

      • +4

        Trump Uni!!

      • To say you are 'quite tired of Australia' is kind of annoying and ignorant. Where did you come from to say that? without being too personal, I'm going to assume you came to Australia for a better life for you, your wife and kids. You came here for different cultures and opportunity…opportunity, is that not what Australia gave you?

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