Dodgy Work Practices - Heating Guy

LStallion on 12/08/2016 - 14:02
Last edited 16/08/2016 - 21:07

Hi All,

So I got the missus (as I'm at work) to book in a guy to come check out our central heating and clean the ducts.

The guy complains that the unit is too old and shouldn't be used (saying its 30+ years old)

So the jerk off cuts the electrical cord to it without advising my missus.

She goes to turn the heater on and nothing… so I told her to call RACV Emergency Home Assist and they advised that the connections have been cut.

WTF ?

How is this allowed ? The risk is up to the home owner to accept? You can't just come into someone's home and cut not even just unplug… CUT the bloody cord.

Advice on how to proceed?

I've asked the missus to call the company up and complain plus I'm going to lodge a formal complaint with Consumer Affairs.

UPDATE:- Thanks all for your helpful and unhelpful(comments which made me laugh). After 2 days of trying to contact the guy with no answer, the company called to say they don't know anything about it and have advised the guy to call back which he hasn't.

I've decided to take the plunge and upgrade anyway but I've gone with a different company, ColdFlow, they were courteous, explained everything and even provided a cheaper better quote, with a newer model than the dodgy guy (who was trying to sell me a 3-star old model). ColdFlow has given us a Braemar TQM520 20kW 5 Star Efficiency rated model for the same price installed. ColdFlow is also a more reputable company.

Thanks Again. You may now go continue discussing what standards allow you to do what =) I will be unsubscribing from this thread.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Car-la-la on 12/08/2016 - 14:11
    +21

    Whilst frustrating, i think you'll find that they're actually required to do this.
    If they spot something that is unsafe part of their licensing they need to take steps to disable it - whether you want them to or not - they're the experts.

    think about it, if they'd left it unsafe and something bad happened to your wife when using it you'd be understandably furious

    • Adz81 on 12/08/2016 - 14:20
      +4

      Exactly, this.

      "… and shouldn't be used…"

    • k-rokfm on 12/08/2016 - 14:21
      +14

      Whilst that is probably the correct action of the workman, wouldnt it also be required that he tell the home owners what he has done and why?

      • jaimex2 on 14/08/2016 - 23:47

        Not the correct action at all. To anyone who's going to downvote this at least post a legislative link.

        The workman broke a previously working heating system, the company should replace the whole system at their cost.

        • McFly on 15/08/2016 - 00:03
          +1

          Yes, the whole system… or a power cord - whatever is cheaper - if indeed they did the wrong thing.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 09:41

          I'm going to downvote you not because I have a legislative link but because of your idiotic suggestion that the company would be liable for a whole new system (got a legislative link for that?) and for telling how to use my downvotes (which I will use as I see fit)

        • abb on 15/08/2016 - 13:16
          +4

          AS5601

          3.9 DEALING WITH DANGEROUS GAS INSTALLATIONS

          Immediate steps shall be taken to make safe any unsafe gas installation or gas appliance
          that may be discovered.

      • RocketSwitch on 15/08/2016 - 09:48

        Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. Like when you get your car serviced, they call you before proceeding, otherwise they won't do it.

    • apple2016 on 12/08/2016 - 14:35
      +2

      " i think you'll find that they're actually required to do this. " - where do i find this?

      • StewBalls on 13/08/2016 - 01:44
        +69

        It's in the bible, old testament.

      • abb on 15/08/2016 - 13:16
        +3

        AS5601

        3.9 DEALING WITH DANGEROUS GAS INSTALLATIONS

        Immediate steps shall be taken to make safe any unsafe gas installation or gas appliance
        that may be discovered.

        • DWH on 16/08/2016 - 11:39
          +1

          So they could have just unplugged it? That would have made it safe.

        • Pinchie on 16/08/2016 - 18:18

          @DWH: That would just leave it able to be plugged in again once the tradie left. He has to play risk management and think "If I walk away from here, what's the safest way to leave it?". In this instance it's not just unplugging it, it's making sure it won't be used again until it's up to spec or replaced.

        • chumlee on 16/08/2016 - 18:34
          +1

          That's nonsense. This guy is only interested in replacing the heater to make more coin. If it was a matter of safety he could have informed the owner of the safety issue, perhaps even taken some photos on his phone to show OP or his wife.

          To claim the guy has to cut the plug is fanciful. He can just unplug it and give a report to the owner saying it is not up to standard etc. Claims that the guy could lose his licence, go to jail etc are BS. These things only happen in the most gross negligent cases.

        • iand on 17/08/2016 - 09:43
          +1

          @chumlee:
          He just unplugs the cord home owner then plugs it back in heater blows up,home owner claims serviceman never unplugged system or said it was unsafe,serviceman in poo

    • chumlee on 13/08/2016 - 11:45
      +7

      So from the OP saying the heating guy says it's too old and shouldn't be used you can claim with 100% certainty that he is actually required to do this for safety reason. I call BS on this. Unless you were there you have no idea of what the issue is.

      If it is so unsafe the heating guy can report it to relevant authorities to take up and enforce OP to comply with current regulations.

      If I was OP I would tell the heating guy to come back and fix the wiring he cut otherwise you will lodge a complaint with consumer affairs or any authority he is required to be registered with.

    • captobvious on 14/08/2016 - 22:08

      Did the bright spark also tag it out with a do not operate tag at the circuit breaker ?

      • iand on 17/08/2016 - 09:45

        He cut the cord from the heater to the power point not the power point so no need to tag circuit breaker as power point is still safe to use

    • fruit on 15/08/2016 - 10:16

      Citation Needed

    • Randxyz123 on 16/08/2016 - 07:20

      Agreed.

      OP have you noticed in many work places they have those test tags attached to computers etc? If they fail the test that is what they do they cut the cord.

      He came and checked it, found(and probably advised your misses) it was UNSAFE so in the event of a fire your insurance would NOT cover you. Sure it's your risk but you are putting at risk the neighborhood houses not to mention your own family.

      Lodging a complaint will do nothing. As people have posted YES they are required BY LAW to do this. They are the experts not you.

      I can't believe that he wouldn't have spoken to your wife afterwards unless she wasn't at home or something(is this possible??).

      I know this is OzBargain and designed to save you money and you don't want to pay for a new heater but the fact is he did the right thing. Your next post could have been "House caught fire and insurance won't pay out due to faulty heater"

    • npc on 12/08/2016 - 16:02
      +9

      You are thinking too good about the progress in technology of electrical heating. It is not like processors at all.

    • Stallion on 12/08/2016 - 16:04
      +17

      Let's see you take a $3000 hit and see how you like it?

      • scrimshaw on 12/08/2016 - 19:15
        +7

        Put it this way.. a 30 year old heater might not be worthwhile to fix, and it might be just as expensive to fix it versus upgrading to a new one.

        Besides, the company that produced that particular heater might not even be holding parts for it anymore, so it's not possible to maintain or service it, in a timely or cost-effective manner.

        That's my 2c anyway.

        • AlienC on 12/08/2016 - 20:43
          +1

          Pretty much this just get a new el cheapo one. Hell oil column heaters are pretty good these days depending on the size of the room.

        • MATTDAMON on 13/08/2016 - 15:50
          +1

          @AlienC:

          If you like getting reamed by the power company, they are stupidly inefficient.

      • cim85 on 13/08/2016 - 18:09
        +3

        @Stallion - wow I'm still shaking my head at the bozo worker cutting the cord like that without going through other options. I'm sure if some here took a $3000 hit, their posts would differ :/

      • immortalbjr on 13/08/2016 - 22:22
        -4

        Would you rather take a $3000 hit or you and your family die in a house fire.

        While your clearly upset about it, the guy did it to do YOU the favour.. even if you don't realise it.

        • smartazz104 on 14/08/2016 - 10:57
          +8

          30 years and not one fire, seems to be holding up just fine.

        • immortalbjr on 14/08/2016 - 18:44
          +2

          @gokhanh: Because the last 30 years of no fire is an absolute guarantee one wont start tomorrow.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 03:21
          +2

          @immortalbjr:
          And what guarantee is there that a newly installed heater will not start a fire tomorrow?

        • chumlee on 15/08/2016 - 17:22

          Disable it by law??

      • Slippery Fish on 14/08/2016 - 07:50
        -3

        Lol report to insurance as broken Nd ask for replace? Fast Nd loose but he did say it was unsafe Nd cut so you must assume its broken no?

        • fruit on 15/08/2016 - 10:17
          +8

          Your comment gave me cancer

  • Stallion on 12/08/2016 - 14:25

    It's a gas ducted unit. It has valves which can be switched off and the cable can be unplugged not simply cut.

    He can do the above and advise us not to use it. However it is our risk to accept, if we want to continue using.

    We had no issues apart from certain rooms were hotter than others.

    • scrimshaw on 12/08/2016 - 19:07
      +12

      You should call 1300 815 127 (Victorian Building Authority) to confirm if your heater should even be used or not.

      From reading some articles online: When a gas heating unit is very, very old, there is a possibility that it might

      1. Be unsafe to use because it might be leaking poisonous carbon monoxide fumes
      2. It no longer meets the stringent emissions rules and legislation set in your particular State, if you are using an unflued gas heating system

      For more information visit
      https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/gas…

      • Jesmond on 15/08/2016 - 15:53
        +3

        ITT: OP is a dead man walking and wants to sue the guy trying to save his life.

        • immortalbjr on 15/08/2016 - 17:23
          +6

          Exactly… so many dumb people in this world.

          If the guy had left it and the house burnt down the next week the moron would be here "A electrician checked my house and didnt even disable a completely unsafe unit! How dodgy are tradies everybody!?"

        • chumlee on 15/08/2016 - 17:25

          I thought he was a plumber doing gas work? This is confusing.

  • airzone on 12/08/2016 - 14:25
    +15

    Actually I would be asking for more of a reason than "it's 30 years old".

    What about it makes it unsafe? Can it be repaired?
    How about you inform the customer of what you're going to do?
    What options have been provided?

    • Stallion on 12/08/2016 - 14:26
      +12

      Exactly give me a detailed report first of why you think it's unsafe.

  • apple2016 on 12/08/2016 - 14:34
    +4

    "30+ years old" - This cannot be the only reason to disconnect/ disable the heater if its properly maintained. Also I don't think the service guy is "required" to disable a faulty heater. He can only refuse to fix it and ask you to replace it.

    • Stallion on 12/08/2016 - 16:03
      +3

      Exactly what I'm thinking, show me where it says by law he is required to disconnect it by cutting the connections which leaves us with an unusable unit in the middle of winter.

      Whereas before we could heat the house, and turn it off before we slept.

      • Slippery Fish on 14/08/2016 - 07:56
        +1

        I think you will find by law he must disable it if its at risk of major failure, in qld we have had some electrical stuff condemed like this, but the serviceman showed us the shit wireing blackening Nd such before we did anything. If he leaves it Nd it fails he would be liable, that said he did not tell you before so chase him.

        • chumlee on 14/08/2016 - 08:03
          +2

          Lol. Just like when Homer Simpson went to get new tyres and the store owner sucked him into all this extra stuff on fear he (store owner) would get into trouble.

          So you telling me you are not allowed to get a second opinion or shop around for a quote?? You gotta get it done by him and on the spot?? sounds like you were suckered.

        • Slippery Fish on 14/08/2016 - 16:07
          -2

          @chumlee: dont be a dick. I know the guy doing my work is honest, just because your guy is shitter than the chance to f a Cactus for 50cents doesnt mean anything.

          Go home internet troll.

        • chumlee on 14/08/2016 - 17:33
          +3

          I think you will find it's the law. It's mabo, it's the constitution, it's the vibe

          You don't know what you are saying. Never seen or heard of a law that says it has to be done there and then by the tradesman that is in your house, or he or she would be liable. The homeowner is the only one liable for their property

      • abb on 15/08/2016 - 13:21
        +6

        I've posted this already, but since you're OP…

        AS5601:
        """
        3.9 DEALING WITH DANGEROUS GAS INSTALLATIONS

        Immediate steps shall be taken to make safe any unsafe gas installation or gas appliance
        that may be discovered.
        """

        Obviously he should have communicated better, but it is a legal requirement that a dangerous installation be made safe. "Making safe" would probably include ensuring it can't be used while the dangerous condition persists…

        If you really want to risk it, you can buy a power plug for $5 and reconnect it. (Don't sue me though)

        • bs0 on 15/08/2016 - 20:18
          +4

          It's almost as if OP is ignoring you lol

  • hell0 on 12/08/2016 - 14:38
    +6

    I think you should name & shame them. Who are this mob?

  • bobbified on 12/08/2016 - 19:02
    +4

    I hope your wife didn't actually pay him anything for the callout!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2016 - 20:02
    +16

    I think there's more to this story. I'd try and speak with the person who visited the property.

    My thoughts are:

    1. No tech is going to cut the cable for no reason.
    2. The heater was probably unsafe and couldn't be made safe.
    3. The circumstances around this issue should have been better explained.
    • AlienC on 12/08/2016 - 20:45
      +4

      Regardless he should of explained to the home owner why he did what he did.

      Just plain common sense and good customer service / courtesy.

      • Euphemistic on 13/08/2016 - 07:35
        +6

        Yup. It isn't good business sense to cut off a cord after telling someone they "shouldn't use it". If, on the other hand the tech should have said things like: this heater is dangerous because of xxxxx. You must not use it, I will have to cut this cord as part of my due diligence. I'd hate to hear that 3 people died due to a faulty heater tomorrow. I'm surprised you haven't been injured yet. etc.

      • magic8ballgag on 13/08/2016 - 09:12
        +7

        Who's saying they didn't? OP could just be upset and frustrated at what happened and only telling us certain parts of the story.

        • Ayanami on 13/08/2016 - 09:24
          +5

          This. It's possible that the tradie told the OP's partner but it was lost in translation or something similar. Ask the tradie for an explanation before we start burning effigies.

        • eyeballz2770 on 13/08/2016 - 10:37
          +1

          @Ayanami: Which is why the most surprising part of this situation is that the service guy didn't leave a written report explaining his reasoning for cutting the cord. I'm sure most service people would know that things get lost in translation when tempers run high.

          For the sake of argument, though, why would the wife have tried to turn on the heating if he'd thoroughly explained what he was doing (cutting the cord), if not why. If I was the wife, I'd have called my husband as soon as I understood that the service guy was cutting the cord so the service guy could explain the situation to my husband.

        • Stallion on 13/08/2016 - 11:10
          +1

          There was no report. I was in meetings all day and didn't get a chance to talk to them.
          I've told you the entirety of the story that I know of.

          I have emailed the company and left a voicemail asking for an explanation and asked if there were other options less extreme they could have provided aside from simply cutting the cords.

          Now I've climbed into the roof cavity and inspected it. He's cut the electrical cord to the unit. All the gas plumbing is still connected, however he hasn't even turned off the gas plumbing valve.

          He's just simply cut the cord which plugs into the 240V outlet in the roof cavity.

          Could he not simply unplug the cable from the outlet, would've been just as effective, I don't know what he was thinking so I've asked for an explanation.

          Edit:- Also simply cutting it also prevents me from getting a second opinion, which for most building works you do. - How do I even know that this mob is even licensed? I've looked on their website, there's no ABN anywhere even on their "quote".

        • whooah1979 on 13/08/2016 - 11:20
          -6

          @Stallion:

          Could he not simply unplug the cable from the outlet,

          no. they don't want you to reconnect the power plug to the socket and continue using the item. cutting the power cord is the safes way to insure that the item isn't used after they leave.

          he saved your family house from burning down. a thanks would be in order.

        • kiitos on 13/08/2016 - 14:27
          +2

          @Ayanami:
          Sorry mate, effigy burning is against regs these days, I have to confiscate it. You can apply to the Effigy Burners Council for an approved kit, containing a flameproof effigy with nonspecific skin colour.

    • fruit on 15/08/2016 - 10:18

      Or they could just be dodgy…

  • Name on 12/08/2016 - 22:38
    +14

    Sounds like poor communication. Maybe he thought he had explained it to your wife but it got lost in technical translation. I doubt someone who is on a call out would cut the cord and dust their hands of it without explaining anything at all.

    In saying that it's easy enough to rewire a cut cord if it comes to it.

    • Stallion on 13/08/2016 - 11:11

      I could re-wire the cord, however being not licensed, should anything happen my insurance policy would not cover damages.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2016 - 00:09

        Can't you just whip out a cigarette lighter/matches and start it?

        • McFly on 14/08/2016 - 20:34

          Lol

      • abb on 15/08/2016 - 13:23
        +1

        Can you show me the law that states this?

        My understanding is that electrical appliance leads are allowed to be wired by non-licensed people. Although if it's in a ceiling cavity or behind a wall, there could be other rules at play.

        • Plug on 15/08/2016 - 21:09
          +1

          Correct. Anything connected via a plug can be installed by anyone. Anything fixed, i.e. no plug, must be done by a licenced technician. In SA anyway.

  • jhmtaylor on 13/08/2016 - 09:43

    Looks to me like he is exactly the sort of tradesman people should be using. He has assessed the risk and taken action to prevent people from being injured. I am 99% sure that we was required by law to disable the equipment under the terms of his trade license. If he did not disable it and someone was killed he could be charged with manslaughter and suffer some very serious worksafe fines. Think $100Ks.
    There is an electrician in Queensland currently facing manslaughter charges because of unsafe work practices.

    • eyeballz2770 on 13/08/2016 - 10:39
      +18

      You'd think that if the service guy took his job that seriously, he'd have paperwork in place explaining all of the above to prospectively irate customers.

    • chumlee on 13/08/2016 - 12:08
      +1

      What trade license does he hold?

    • apple2016 on 13/08/2016 - 12:21
      -1

      It's not about what you think. Where is the law that states that the tradie is required to cut the power cord?

      • jhmtaylor on 18/08/2016 - 11:51

        Assuming he is in Victoria, one or all of following could apply depending on the circumstances. There is similar legislation in all other States and Territories
        OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ACT 2004
        ELECTRICITY SAFETY ACT 1998
        Gas Safety Act 1997
        Crimes Act 1958

  • StewBalls on 13/08/2016 - 10:13
    +4

    Sounds like malicious damage to me…

  • whooah1979 on 13/08/2016 - 11:56

    (saying its 30+ years old)
    the cable can be unplugged

    does the plug have a "tick"?
    http://www.austest.com.au/au_nz_approvals.php

  • outlander on 13/08/2016 - 11:57
    +16

    He probably just needed a cord

  • mattyman on 13/08/2016 - 13:24
    +9
    • Gas tech tells OP that heater isn't safe to use.
    • OP tells missus.
    • Missus tries to turn on heater.
    • OP wonders why gas tech cut cable.

    Point 3 is exactly why they cut the cable. There are laws around this that they'll lose their license over if they identify a problem and you die as a result, not to mention the mental side of things. The tech informed OP who was representing his missus by being there when the tech arrived.

    I don't see what the problem is.

    • chumlee on 13/08/2016 - 13:56

      The problem is when did OP claim heater guy said it's unsafe?? OP's post said too old.

      what license does the heater guy hold??

      please direct me to the relevant law too.

      you're making stuff up without knowing all the facts.

    • ICMushroom on 14/08/2016 - 20:38

      If it's about safety then shouldn't they have turned off the gas to the heater as well?

    • fruit on 15/08/2016 - 10:19

      Link to the law?

    • Japius on 15/08/2016 - 10:34
      +1

      everyone keeps saying there's laws but no one has linked to one yet and i am struggling to find it myself

        • Japius on 15/08/2016 - 13:01

          yeah i got to that eventually but still nothing to indicate simply unplugging and then informing the owner of the defects wouldnt also be in line with the legislation (ignoring the OP stating no information beyond the units age was given) It also ignores section 3 of that same section that says the remedy if they are unable to make it safe is to notify the relevant bodies, it doesnt say to permanently disable the system

        • McFly on 15/08/2016 - 13:06
          +2

          @Japius: He did make it safe - a bit like 'curing' a broken nail by amputating the finger, but still…

  • cloo on 13/08/2016 - 13:29
    +5

    Not too long ago, I had my 20 year old gas heater (Brivis Buffalo) inspected just prior to the birth of our first child. The guy showed me where there were burn marks, meaning the thing had cracks and increased risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.

    He also did a test for carbon monoxide at the heating vents but there was none detectable so he said I should consider replacing it soon, gave me a quote and went on his way. He did say if it was unsafe, he would have disconnected it but it was ok to use in the short term.

    I ended up getting it replaced about a week later as I didn't want to take any chances, but continued using it in the meantime.

    Your guy should have at least given an explanation before cutting the cord!

    • Stallion on 13/08/2016 - 20:04
      +1

      That's the thing, he was up there for less than a few minutes.

      He was supposed to be there to check the vents for carbon monoxide. Equipment he didn't even take out of his Van.

      • whooah1979 on 14/08/2016 - 00:02
        +1

        Equipment he didn't even take out of his Van.

        you weren't there to see if he did or didn't use a meter to test? a co meter is no larger then a remote. your wife couldn't probable tell the difference between a meter or whatnot if he carried it in his pants.

  • aussieprepper on 13/08/2016 - 15:15

    Isn't there also the legal side where the heater may be a necessary and if he did cut the cord and now it will not turn on and some one dies from freezing its his fault? Or say some one gets sicks from the cold its his fault?

    I use to work Telstra as a technician and if we cut some one line with out notice and they died we could be charged.

    • whooah1979 on 13/08/2016 - 17:06

      some one dies from freezing its his fault?

      Only if op lives in Siberia. People don't freeze to death in oz of their free will.

      • MATTDAMON on 13/08/2016 - 19:36
        -3

        The way people act these days, anything below 15c is omfg im gonna turn into an iceblock1111

        Doesnt get cold in Australia, except for maybe the alpine region (Threadbo etc)

        • aussieprepper on 13/08/2016 - 20:53

          Maybe Tasmania. But if it was an old person and they can not get around by them selves and this tradie done that to them then what? Even in nsw in the countryside it gets below zero degrees some times

        • BartholemewH on 14/08/2016 - 15:10
          +2

          @aussieprepper:

          Sometimes it is minus 4 here (New England NSW) at 10am. It amuses me that city dwellers think only Tasmania is cold.

        • aussieprepper on 14/08/2016 - 15:24
          +1

          @BartholemewH: yea i spend a bit of time up and down the coast like when i am up around Newie its warm but i go fishing around Narooma and its freezing.

        • BartholemewH on 15/08/2016 - 11:21

          @aussieprepper:
          It's like living at the snow, except it's sometimes colder here…. and there's no snow.

    • Slippery Fish on 14/08/2016 - 08:06
      -1

      Lol bit extreme, put on a jumper.

  • kima on 13/08/2016 - 16:50
    +5

    I think there are a lot of assumptions and opinions on here. I would like to see the legal information whether to if he is actually supposed to disable such under his licensing or if he did so on his own back which he would be liable for. RACV are probably a good starting point they would probably know and get a report from them.

    If it is truly dangerous then i would be thankful to him but obviously discuss it with me first, as i would appreciate advice. However its not unheard of for tradies to do things like this purely for business advantage - just look at foxtel, they often find the free to air cable and cut it on purpose.

  • redforever on 13/08/2016 - 17:46
    +1

    At work, during one of the regular electrical test, the tester found a power board that failed the test that was in use at the time. He ended up cutting the cord to the power cord and said he had to it as per the law. Not sure what law but it was just a power board so no one gave a second thought.

  • MATTDAMON on 13/08/2016 - 19:40

    More then likely it no does not meet any of the current legislation or australian standards for a ducted heater (in particular insulation etc) so would be required by law to make it inoperable.

    TBH i think you are keen on running a unit that old, if the fan etc drops a bearing it can cause a fire pretty quickly.

    • chumlee on 13/08/2016 - 20:12
      +2

      Required by law?? Which law??? I really want to see this legislation

      So if I am an electrician and I go to a house built 30 years ago with original wiring, you are saying I, by law must cut the power to the house and leave the occupants without power??

      • MATTDAMON on 13/08/2016 - 21:15

        Read up on AS3000.

        And yes if you go into a property that has not been updated with the new earth standard (which should of been retrofitted by law years ago) you have to by law cut the power until the energy company can rectify (which is usually pretty quick ie same day)

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