Have an ACT license, going to Melbourne for business. Heard from friends that there are certain differences between driving in Canberra vs Melbourne. Anyone care to elaborate?
Difference in driving in Melbourne
UncommonName on 20/06/2016 - 15:10
Last edited 20/06/2016 - 15:10
Last edited 20/06/2016 - 15:10
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So I need to sit there in the middle of the intersection like an idiot?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdoBNDYBl1A
Not in the middle, at the 40 second mark in the video it says to move off to the left side. You won't look like an idiot if everyone else is doing it. You will look like an idiot if wait in the centre of the intersection and block a tram. You can also get fined for doing that. Some intersections even have the hook turn waiting area painted in white lines.
Hook turns are only required at intersections where there is hook turn sign. Outside of Melbourne CBD they are rare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0EMYugsiQ
Honest question from a Sydneysider:
Hook turns seem like a good idea, but how would one block a tram anyway? In NSW and presumably every other state, drivers intending to turn right are supposed to move into the intersection within the right lane and remain parallel to traffic. Is the hook turn rule just to prevent people who don't adhere to that road rule from blocking a tram, or do they have some trouble with traffic waiting in the right lane?
Most roads in Melbourne city with tram is single lane. Without hook turn, traffic will bank up. Hook turn allows for 2-3(4 occasionally) cars to turn right at a time.
Some idiots can't judge the size of their car will usually move too close to the right and block(happens a lot in the suburbs) the tram, so hook turns in the city.
@Scrooge McDuck: Where there are tram tracks in the CBD, there are only 2 lanes. If a car was in the right lane trying to turn right and a car in the left lane trying to turn left but blocked by pedestrians, no one would get anywhere.
Using a hook turn, all turning traffic is in the left lane and through traffic in the right laneI believe that when hook turns were introduced the right lane was shared by trams and cars so a right hand turner in the right lane parallel to traffic would block a tram coming behind.
I was a bit hazy because I avoid driving in the CBD, but these days, you are not allowed to drive on most of the tram lanes in the CBD. Therefore you are correct, waiting in the intersection in the right (car) lane, parallel to the traffic, you wouldn't block trams, just cars. Cars could pass you on the left. Trucks might have a bit of difficulty. I guess the traffic engineers think that hook turns make for smoother traffic.
Not sure if you got the answer you're after, but in Melbourne CBD most lanes are two each way, with a giant tram strip down the middle. So naturally, if you are turning right at an intersection, in a bid not to block the right hand land, you would wait in the free space in the middle before its clear to turn (aka the tram tracks).
Where there is not a tram track, those in the lane turning right would naturally wait in that lane until its free to cross; hence blocking one of the two lanes (a pain in the arse, in Melbourne).
A hook turn eliminates both of these problems - it hides you out of the way from both lanes, and allows you to avoid blocking the trams.
Friendly warning, if you are turning right, the hook turn will require you to wait on the left. You have right of way just after the light goes red, just make sure no one is running a red before you cross over.
When i visited Melbourne for the first time, i was one of those idiots being honked in the middle trying to turn :)
I was very lucky not be taken out by a tram… Quickly learnt though
Driving in Melbourne CBD is is very easy, it is Sydney which deserves the bad reputation
You can easily avoid ever doing a hook turn in melbourne. The CBD is a grid.
Every intersection with a hook turn is followed by an intersection with a normal right turning lane.
Everyone is on the go in Sydney, its great.
Depends what you are used to i suppose.@captobvious: One way streets seem to annoy me more than they should. I suppose once you memorise the city it's fine
Having been to both for business I found the opposite to be true. The only negative about Sydney was I kept getting a bad selection of hire cars.
Nope, that's not true, there are plenty of locations where there's two hook turns in a row. Hook turns make absolute sense once you've done one, they're not worth avoiding.
In Victoria, we have a 3KPH speeding tolerance to save lives, but Vicroads youtube clip is promoting breaking the law, by commencing a lane change without prior indication. Vicroads should check the rules, remove and remake their clip.
90% of road accidents on Victorian freeways are from the side or the rear, and Vicroads carelessness or indifference could be why.
If it saves one life………..I'm not sure of the rules in ACT, but in NSW we get multiple warnings before speed cameras (except for mobile speed cameras, where there is usually only one warnings, or cops who provide no warning).
However, in VIC, there is no prior warning of fixed speed cameras.
I also remember hearing they are supposed to have "time of day" speed cameras - where it doesn't matter if you are doing the limit when you are at the camera, but if you arrived at that camera sooner than you should have from the previous one, they will know that you were speeding between the cameras. However, I'm not sure if this is actually the case or if it only applies for trucks? Perhaps a local can advise.
Otherwise I find a lot of people stay in the right hand lane, so you end up having a quicker drive in the left lane.
And I find it odd as to the number of level train crossings and the fact the train lines are not fenced off… That doesn't really affect driving but I find it strange that you could just walk or drive over some grass and on to the tracks, when Sydney's whole train corridors are fully fenced in.
You'll only look like an idiot if you do the turn the usual way and get cleaned up by a tram. Hook turns are actually less stressful than a regular right hand turn when there is trams and a lot of traffic around.
Also red light fine for turning right on a green hahaha
Hook turns look retarded as fuuuuck
You don't really need to hookturn, just drive across the intersection, do a Uwee and turn left, voila! Victoria for the UWeeeee!
them crazy melbournians and their hook turns.
Less roundabouts..
More hook turns.
You'll be fine.
way LESSSSSSSSSSSSS roundabouts
That's probably a good thing as they go around them anticlockwise down there don't they?
Yes, because we drive on the right.
Fewer.
Perhaps they're smaller in Melbourne…
Stannis, is that you?
Some Melbourne roundabouts are special 'gridlock roundabouts' - those roundabouts have pedestrians crossings at both entry and exit points, there are traffic jam in the roundabout during busy time!
Like the one sin North Melbourne? They're a terrible idea.
Those ones around South Melbourne Markets are arse when it's a busy day at the Market.
way smaller roundabouts
if you are caught for overspeed/crossing redsignals, yes, you'll be fineD
Information for tourists about Victorian road rules
If you are an interstate or overseas driver the information below highlights some of the risks and unique aspects of driving in Victoria.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/renew-replace-or-up…
I haven't driven in ACT but compared to Perth, drivers in Melbourne are much more switched on and keep things moving. If you aren't already rolling forward as the traffic light turns green people will beep. Whereas, in Perth one car can take a whole light change to move and no one seems to care. Drivers are more aggressive in Melbourne, not in a meth head way but they are just more confident.
Nah, it's not nearly that bad.. Travel to the Middle East though and you actually do get beeped before the light changes green.
By 'Middle East' you mean Greenacre Bankstown right?
You should travel to India and drive there to know how crazy traffic can ever get!
It is a norm there though..
If you can drive in India, you can drive anywhere in the world ;)
is that why I kept seeing Indian drivers (Male/female) turning left into small street from right lane in a 2 lanes road?
Because if they can drive in India, they can drive everywhereeee
Yeah, I said they can drive anywhere in the world, I never said they do a good job driving..
There is a difference
"they are just more confident."
Very true, but they also lack the skill the warrant that confidence.
Exactly.
You should see all the "confident" halfwits tailgating at high speed in the rain.
theyre also more rude
tailgating and speeding past
almost as bad as brisbane drivers
confidence doesnt come from driving like a tool, it comes from actually understanding the road rules and applying them correctly
Hook turns in only the city that is…
…and South Melbourne.
People have mentioned hook turns in the city already.
Read up about the rules on how to stop behind a tram when it comes to a stop. The lights on both sides start flashing and little stop signs pop out from the side of the tram. You must stop behind the tram regardless of what colour the traffic light is. As soon as the tram doors open, people start jumping off without looking. If you do not stop, you can easily kill someone.
buses also have right of way once indicators are going etc, not sure if differect in ACT.
Except this can catch you out sometimes.
Sometimes the tram drivers only start the flashing lights immediately before they open the doors. I have been in a car (sometimes as a driver, sometimes as a passenger), approaching an intersection, and the tram started to slow down approaching a green light, sometimes to wait for a car turning right, or other times to pick up passengers. Go to overtake on the left (as you would if a car was waiting to turn right at this intersection) as you drive past, they open the doors and switch the lights on, and ding ding ding their bell at you for not stopping.
They are called indicators for a reason.
Most times the driver will switch on the indicators as soon as they start slowing down, and you know that the doors will be opening, so you act appropriately. Most of the time, if the tram is slowing down without indicating, it is stopping to wait for an obstruction to clear, such as a car turning right.
Bugs me just as much as when car drivers don't use their indicators, but in a way, this is more dangerous.
Pretty much when I notice that there's a tram slowing down to a tram stop, I'd slow right down behind them, regardless of whether their lights are flashing or not. They don't seem to skip that many stops so I assume that there's a good chance the doors will be open.
What worries me most is, I see a lot of passengers jumping off without even looking. The law's not going to protect them when a driver isn't paying attention.
Hook turns and aggressive traffic could be the issues… However, you will be all right..
Do not forget to consider enormous traffic flow of peak hours, if you are going to attend any pre–schedule meetings. In ACT, usually we are not thinking about that, but in mega cities, that is very common… Anyway,have a safe drive and enjoy the trip!re the traffic, If you want an accurate estimate of your travel time, make sure to use google maps as it accounts for traffic. A tom tom could be off by 30 min in peak hour
my tomtom go6100 is in fact 99% accurate for traffic in peak hour for brisbane
maybe the prehistoric fm models of gps were slow to update but my sim card based model is definately better than google maps, usually showing me traffic issues miles ahead and in real time
technology has come along way
Can't speak for an ACT comparison, but compared to SA? Way more driver courtesy.
To be expected in SA since they dont have vehicles they are still busy dragging their knuckles around.
I'm a Melbournian that is in Adelaide every second week-end and find that driving in SA is far better. People are more courteous, unlike in Melbourne where when you begin to indicate on a freeway, people speed up to ensure you can't get in.
Ah, then maybe that's it, I've had much more experience in Adelaide rather than Melbourne, good chance that I haven't seen the worst of it and my impression was skewed.
In Vic, you can do a U turn at a set of lights…
I always find that generous.
Depends on the intersection. Some have "No U-Turn" signs at busy or black spot intersections.
Yeah, I kinda thought that was stating the obvious…
Yeah NSW is reversed. No U turns allowed at lights unless there is a sign saying they are permitted.
I can't believe you can't in some places. Where else would you do them!?
What if you need to turn around?!
Pretty sure Melbourne has those funny traffic lights that change really quickly when entering some motorways (possibly called a ramp meter?).
They also have tons of hidden speed cameras and you can get booked for going 1km/hr over the speed limit in Melbourne. Everywhere else you seem to get a 10km/hr allowance with speed cameras (although cops can ping you for whatever they like).
The allowance in VIC is 3 km/h. So you can get booked for going 4 km/h over the posted speed limit.
My wife got an infringement notice for exactly that a few weeks ago. They subtract 3 from the measured speed so at first glance it looked like she was pegged for 101 in a 100 zone.
Did your wife drive at 104 km/h on the car speedometer?
Dunno, wasn't there. The car's speedo reads pretty close to the gps calculation; she must have had a heavy foot that day.
@Darron65: my car speedometer somehow is 5 km/h faster than the gps (Garmin) so not sure which one is correct according to the speed camera -_-
@kungfupanda: GPS is more likely to be correct (although it depends how good the GPS is of course). Car speedos very often read higher than true, because it's illegal for them to read lower than true speed.
The lights you are referring to are just called ramp signals, they are to help manage the flow of traffic & reduce congestion on freeways during peak times.
Brisbane have them too
its to stop morons just pushing into the motorway and for people who can't mergebest thing they ever did up here
Sorry duplicate
There are some specials here that will make it easier with all the traffic infringements. I highly recommend the cocoa glow because you get a whiff of holiday every time you fart after being pulled over by the cops
They drive on the right hand side in Melbourne don't forget. (But not in the rest of Victoria).
when I visited Melbourne I plan my route to only do left turns when driving in the CBD!
In Melbourne, lots of drivers are more fixated on their speedo than the road. Speeding doesn't kill, fear of speeding kills.
Some new cars have introduced 'Head Up Display' to display current traveling speed on front windscreen. So drivers can focus on the road and getting speed reading as well.
Car companies, always thinking of Melbourne drivers. ┌[ ◔ ͜ ʖ ◔ ]┐
As mentioned above, you will find that they are very aggresive drivers. Bike rental is extremely cheap from the public system. Highly recommended if you're in the CBD
We actually go on red signal and stop on green. Also sticking your finger up and honking your horn is considered a hello.
One thing you might notice is that lanes are 50% narrower.
Also round abouts do not have your left slip for going straight, which is a great idea when I saw it in Canberra, but I can see how it doesn't suit Melbourne given that they occupy extra physical space.
The rule for u-turns at intersections is different compared to other states. Basically, you're typically allowed to u-turn at any intersection in Vic, unless signed otherwise.
Other states (at least NSW, QLD, WA - not sure about TAS, SA but I assume they're the same):
- No U turn at signals is the default, unless there's a sign saying you're allowed to (QLD road rule source: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumrr2009…)
- U turn allowed at any unsignalised intersection is the default, unless there's a sign saying you're not allowed to (QLD road rule source: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumrr2009…)Victoria:
- U turn at signals is the default, unless there's a sign saying you're NOT allowed to (VIC road rule source: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr200920…)
- U turn allowed at any unsignalised intersection is the default, unless there's a sign saying not you're allowed to (VIC road rule source: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr200920…)Hmm I like Vic U turn rules better :)
Besides from the hook turn which mostly centers around CBD and South Melbourne, watch out for the following:
-Toll roads.
-The definition of traffic jam.
-LOTS of fixed and mobile speed cameras.
I've lived and driven in both Melbourne & Canberra for many years.
The beat advice I can give is the difference in attentiveness required. In Canberra you can cruise around without really looking out or paying much attention. You still need to be wary but you don't need to be as active. In Melbourne you need to be fully altert and continuously reading the road signs, looking for other cars, pedestrians, cyclists, variable speed signs, traffic cameras and lunatics. This is more so in the inner suburbs and CBD of course. Outter suburbs are still much more busier than Canberra even during peak.
When merging into the freeways there may be a red stop light on the on ramp. These are used to control traffic flow during peak times.
Do not turn left on a red signal. This was or may be sill legal in the ACT but ist in Melbourne.
When driving along roads with trams, always stop behind a team that comes to a stop. Do not pass it as passengers will be getting on and off. The exception is if the team is stopping at a designated tram stop. What I mean by that is some tram stops are just part of the road and not separate. In these cases you must stop in your car. Other stops are separated such as along St Kilda road and in the CBD.
Always use your indicators. In Canberra I noted many wouldn't (this is going a few years back now) but in Melbourne you really need to let others around you know what your intentions are. Don't just swap lanes or turn a corner without doing so.
On some roads in Melbourne a middle lane may change direction. In the morning it may have traffic flow going north where as in the afternoon it reverses south. On these roads here will be arrow lights above the lane indicating direction.
Tollways require an eTag in Melbourne or a day pass that can be bought online. Using the Cittlink tollway won't necessarily be quicker or save time and there's often a breakdown, roadworks or other disruption on it so they slow traffic to 60kph anyway - especially through the underground Burnley tunnel. So use google maps and do a toll vs. no toll comparison. They charge an excessive toll amount so you may wish to avoid it. On the Eastern freeway there's a separate toll system "Eastlink" too.
Be wary of peak traffic times as a 10 minute drive can stretch out into a nightmare. Consider alternative routes as the most direct may not be best depending on time of day.
Motorbikes can legally park on footpaths. You'll see his predominately in the CBD.
Seriously consider public transport options as they can sometimes be far less stressful. Saying that, the opposite is also true and it really depends on where you're going, time of day and whether Metro has screwed up again.
I guess the question for you is will you be driving in the Melbourne city area or the outer suburbs. If the later then you really don't need to adapt much. If you intend to drive down parts of Swanston street - then pay attention because most of it is off limits!
I find it less stressful to drive in Melbourne's built up areas than in Canberra.
Tailgating is noticeably worse in Canberra.
Absent minded and incompetent Canberra drivers can get away with mistakes due to the wider lanes and excellent road design.
For example notice how terrible some Canberran's merge two lanes into one. In ACT both lanes have equal priority so there is no at fault party. The incompetent drivers will not improve their driving and rely on their SUV/4WD to scare others off the road.
In Canberra you'll frequently notice SUV/kiddie carriers illegally fail to give way at a roundabout. The SUV's accelerate so slowly expecting other drivers to activate their ABS brakes. The size of the dual lane roundabouts and their excellent road surface allow for emergency braking while cornering.
In Melbourne if you are already parked on the side of the road and trying to get into traffic someone nice will let you out. In the Canberra CBD you can sit forever with your right indicator on.
Melbourne has way more motorcycle riders than Canberra. Motorcycles in Victoria benefit from being allowed to park on footpaths legally.
Melbourne pedestrians are way more reckless than Canberra pedestrians. A Canberra pedestrian will J-walk but they will fear for their life. Some Melbourne pedestrians will not even do head checks before they illegally J-walk.
In Canberra the party at fault is whoever wasn't in front upon entry into the form one lane. Practically a lot of people do fly past you at the entry point with very little space which is very annoying and dangerous.
This differs from merging where a lane ends, where the car on the lane that ends must give way to the car on the lane that continues. This scenario is basically the only reason why we get peak hour slowing traffic in Canberra because one idiot gives way to a merging idiot who can't merge safely, which slows the continuing lane, which makes less holes for people to merge which slows the merging lane, so more people 'courteously' let people merge in which again slows the continuing lane, until both lanes are at a crawl and you have a one for one merging situation from 8:30AM until 9AM and from 5:15 to 5:45pm.
Those 30 minute instead of 10 minute car rides home in heavy traffic are the bane of my existence I tell you!
melbourne rules!!
As a general rules driving in the melbourne city cbd is nightmares. Lots of traffic light and slow moving. Not recommended at all. The city are planned for pedestrian and tram are free. So much more you can enjoy by walking in Melbourne than any other Australian city.
If you do drive in Melbourne city make sure you know
1. Hook turn, make sure you know where you need to keep left to turn right.
2. U turn almost everywhere are allowed except clear sign say no
3. Parking are monitored by sensor. Do not get even couple min late, you will get fine
4. Jay walker is every where
5. Make sure you stop if tram stop. Or you will mow down a lot of tram passenger exiting in the middle of the roadHope this helps
Melbourne has some tram lines that literally stop in the middle of a road surrounded by traffic. Cars must also stop otherwise you will mow people down. This road rule really surprised me when I first went to Melbourne.
Look out for trams, tram lines that go through roundabouts, trams with double-yellow lines or raised bumps on either side/structure that you must not cross under any circumstances except at the crossing points, and that we drive sideways.
Speed cameras everywhere.
The road rules are identical, aside from a couple of details.
While we're legally required to indicate left out of roundabouts in the ACT, it confuses people in Melbourne.
Form one lanes are across lines in Melbourne - if you enter a freeway from the left, you have to give way, you don't both have right of way - like most of the entrances onto Caswell Drive / the Tuggeranong Parkway.
Speed cameras are concealed. There aren't three signs before fixed cameras, or huge white vans with signs on the roof. They are generally Falcons and Commodores on the side of the road. If you're driving there down the Hume, there are a lot of speed cameras starting from about 50km out of the city.
Make sure you have a way of paying tolls if you're driving near the city - I use a Breezetag (Eastlink) and keep it on my car even in Canberra because there's no minimum balance, free to receive, no annual fees, auto top-up, and it works on every toll road in Australia.
While in Canberra you can perform a U-turn wherever a sign says it is permitted. In Melbourne, you can do one unless there is a sign saying not to.
Other than that, lanes are super narrow on suburban roads, traffic jams are much worse than here, giving way to trams is confusing (don't pass them when they're stopped and their signs are out), and hook turns are a thing (again, because of tram lines, but you very very rarely have to do one unless you're really unlucky).
That explains why no one here indicates left off roundabouts here, I learnt to drive in Queensland where it was always advised to indicate left off the roundabout to let people know where you are going but when I moved here I noticed no one does it even though it is advised in the road rules.
With the exception of trams, the rules for roundabouts are the same in Victoria and the ACT. If you are in Victoria and turning left you must indicate left, nothing if straight, and right if turning right. Where practicable, indicate left when exiting the roundabout.
I believe the rules may have been different at some point so a lot of older people do weird things. Then again a lot of people do weird things anyway. My grandmother once turned right to 'get onto the roundabout' and then went straight. I can't even conceive of how that could possibly have ever been a rule.
Nothing real exciting happens down melb unless you want a crappacinno every 10 paces.
With all the hoopla and crazy road rules I'll just avoid that state.
Location
SydneyLOL. Go figure
Most Melbourne drivers are barely conscious.
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Hook Turns