Public & Private Schooling in The Penrith Region

cypher67 on 12/05/2016 - 17:35
Last edited 19/05/2016 - 09:19

Hi OzBargain,

My eldest Son is due to start Kindergarten next year and I am currently exploring my options & am I after some advice.

I live out near Penrith in Sydney, the local public school to whose catchment I fall has a terrible reputation and performance results.

I'm not against paying for my kids education (without going crazy, $5k a year max) so started applying to some Private Schools.

All the school so far have declined us because I am not affiliated to any specific religion and those that are; get priority.

Has anyone else faced this problem & what did you do?
Any school recommendations between Blacktown and Emu Plains?

I never realised how many private schools are tied to a specific religion, I didn't think it would be this hard to get my son a decent education…

Education & Work

Comments

      • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 20:20

        that's great hey! omigosh i didnt realize i had so many typos! damn touchtyping ugh

  • sal78 on 14/05/2016 - 21:35
    +2

    i was nust reading a testimonial this 14yo kid posted. he had suicidal thoughts but when reggie debbs visited the school and spoke to the kids.. he was saved.. religious or not.. that's a great thing!!! hems happy, enjoying school and joined youth ministry at his local church. pretty awesome whether you are religious or not!! he's happy now.

  • Audisez on 14/05/2016 - 23:39
    +1

    If you want your kids to do well I would recommend:

    1. Get them to develop good study habits and invoke in them a desire to do well. This is honestly far more important than anything else.

    2. Having a good environment, usually from their learning environment or friends. If you can't get this from schooling, try private tutoring. I know pre-uni was decent and Matrix was excellent but very expensive.

    To be quite frank I learned the bulk of my knowledge from private tutoring and studying from Syllabus focused textbooks or the material provided from private tutoring rather than public schooling.

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 00:56

      that's too much rote in primary levels. our school has extension classes, study groups and gifted programs in primary levels. it's great for kids that need to be challenged.

      tutoring is better for high school students.

  • Finde on 15/05/2016 - 00:28
    +4

    I have a primary teaching degree and have worked at both private and public schools.
    I personally would not send my children to a public school.

    I am not saying a private school is without it's issues, but there are far less issues. From my experience, the quality of the teaching staff is far better and students have access to too far more resources to be able to learn.

    The families also make a massive difference. The children at the private school are, in my experience, generally much better behaved. With some of the parents I have dealt with, I just feel sorry for the children.

    What hope do the children have though when I asked the parents to come in to speak to them about their child, and as soon as I mention the child in any negative light, the parents start screaming at me calling me every name under the sun. It got so bad to the point that the parents were banned from school premises. Sadly, things like that are far more common then you would think.

    I'm not saying every public school is like that, I would however strongly recommend to do as much research as possible before sending them to any school.

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 01:04

      spot on. more work in private school but still worth it and a nicer environment to work in. My hubby works at a lutheran school.

      • biozet on 15/05/2016 - 21:24

        maybe the children simply reflect their own middle class backgrounds…therefore its easier to teach in those environments

  • abh_gup on 15/05/2016 - 00:49
    +2

    I (along with my brothers and cousins) all studied at private schools, all 12 years.
    IMHO, private schooling is too much jazz and hype about it all is nauseous.
    Public schooling with just a bit of private tuition (if necessary) and parents enrolling their kids in a few extra curricular activities plus bit of annual travel would save the family lots of money and won't necessarily mean the kid gets any less education/benefits.

    Invest that saving for tertiary education instead.
    Initially, put money aside in a high interest bearing or online savings account of the parent with lower marginal tax return. On reaching a balance over ~$25,000, switch to investment bonds like IOOF WealthBuilder or Austock Child Builder, held and diversified within a Trust using 125% rule! Please note, these bonds can be cashed 100% tax free on redemption only after 10 years of investments, so timing matters - Can see a financial advisor regarding this.)

    A well educated kid with richer parents and no education debts on kids head at beginning of the career…

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 01:02
      +2

      my kids already appreciate our sacrifices for them to go to a nice school. we were walking through a shopping centre in a dodgy neighbourhood and a group of kids around the same age as my elder came flying past in skateboards and screamed 'watch out you stupid b^%$^' ..my kids were horrified and asked how people can be so mean when we don't even know them? they have never ever been expose to that kind of behaviour. hopefully I keep keep their innocence a bit longer.

      • abh_gup on 15/05/2016 - 01:09
        +2

        I would agree to an extent.
        Good public schools are hard to find.
        For example, in the entire West of Melbourne (Footscray to Werribee), and West of Sydney (Blacktown to Lakemba)… rare.

  • shaybisc on 15/05/2016 - 11:19
    +3

    I hate to be an oldie predicting the Fall of Rome again, but surely, objectively, social standards have declined and that's one of the reason public schools are not working as well as they did back in the day. Did people used to bash ambos, nurses, teachers in the good old days? Maybe they did but I never heard of it. Did parents used to defend their kids misbehavior and berate teachers? Maybe they did but I never heard heard of it.

    Unless a teacher can maintain order in their classroom and be supported by parents when they do they can't do a good job.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/05/2016 - 12:25
    +5

    I went to a non government school. Yes the ones that now cost 25-30k per year.
    Some people have done exceptionally well and others have done horribly.
    It depends on the person and the school and whether that school is right for that person.

    Have you considered what would happen if your child hates their school? It definitely impacts their marks.

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 20:22

      true true. i think its important to take into account what our kids want too.

  • Save Medicare on 15/05/2016 - 14:11
    +8

    I went to public schools from K-4, public OC classes from years 5-6 and a public selective school in 7-12. Graduated with an ATAR in the high 99s, currently studying medicine and my parents never paid a cent on schooling.

    Fees for coaching/tuition to get into the top-tier public schools are much lower than the cost of attending a private school, and the best public selective schools produce far better results academically than private high schools that can cost upwards of $25k a year.

    The median ATAR at my public selective high was 99.10 in my cohort of 178.

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 20:25

      public selective school is your answer!! you have a lot to be grateful to your parents!

      my friends are renting in the city just to get their kids into brisbane state high. they leased their house out for 4 yrs. sacrifices parents make for their kids. family of 5 living in a tiny 2 br. is that what the kids want? of course not. they already go to a private school in the duburbs but academically its not good enough. her kids will be thankful if they get into med.

    • cypher67 on 16/05/2016 - 09:25

      I think most people are missing the point of my post. I'm not saying all public schools are bad, they are simply not equal. If the catchment you fall in has a poor Public school, the options are move to a better catchment or use the Private sector. However the Private sector is overwhelmingly dominated by religion organisations and is not recognising our applications due to not having any specific faith.

      So am I left with 1 option … move to a catchment with a better school?

      • readyState on 16/05/2016 - 09:45

        Sometimes public schools take children who are outside their catchment area. Have you tried this? Maybe a school closer to you or your partners workplace?

        You can always move to catchment area of a better school and then move back again if you prefer living in your current area.

      • Save Medicare on 16/05/2016 - 09:50
        +6

        I don't think you're hearing me. The thing is, where your child goes to school for K-4 doesn't really matter. There's no use in paying $5-25k a year on a fancy private or independent school for a 5 year old.

        The trick is to get your kid into an OC class and a selective school, where the catchments don't matter and the education is free. Kids who got to OC classes consistently go on to selective schools (in my year 6 class of 30 - 30 went on to selective schools, 10 to james ruse). Kids who go into top tier selective schools consistently graduate in the top 1% of ATARs and go on to the medical school, law school, business school or whatever uni course of their choice. (Out of my cohort of 178.. approx 40 got into medicine, rest law, engineer, business)

        How do you get into this path of publicly funded success?

        Private vs public schooling in K-4 isn't going to make a real difference. What is going to make a difference is the parent having a real interest in their child's education. Teaching them at home after school, drilling through practice OC exams, etc. You need to take more responsibility than just paying for private school if you want your child to do well.

        • cwongtech on 16/05/2016 - 17:15

          The trick is to get your kid into an OC class and a selective school, where the catchments don't matter and the education is free. Kids who got to OC classes consistently go on to selective schools (in my year 6 class of 30 - 30 went on to selective schools, 10 to james ruse).

          Exactly what I did. Went from a crappy local school, to an OC class, then top top 10 HSC selective school.

          Private vs public schooling in K-4 isn't going to make a real difference.

          Never thought I'd agree with "Tony Abbott", but that's truth right there.

      • belongsinforums on 16/05/2016 - 16:01

        Or teach your child yourself, if you are that worried. If you think your child is bright enough to recieve a scholarship, gain entry to a selective school, or attend Oxford, then enrol your child in your local school and ensure they score extremely high scores on all of their formal tests.

    • readyState on 16/05/2016 - 12:08

      Great results. Congratulations on getting into med school.

      Did you take any coaching while High School for HSC? If so, from which year onwards?

      • Save Medicare on 16/05/2016 - 13:09
        +5

        Thanks. The congratulations really belongs to my parents as it does to me. I absolutely resented having to study so much during high school, but at the end of the day it was their "encouragement" that gave me the opportunities to do what I'm doing today.

        In my opinion tutoring is an extremely vital part of doing well in the HSC. Even though I went to the top school (academically) in the country with the brightest kids from NSW, I don't think that teaching at Ruse alone would have gotten me the marks that I got. Even though the teachers were for the most part very good and engaging, I found that the learning was simply too slow paced for me. We have to consider that even at the state's top school there will be some students who are better than others, and it is the teacher's priority to help those kids rather than to further help the top students. Tutoring allowed me to learn the course in depth, in less time, so that I knew what I was doing before the school covered it.

        One positive aspect of James Ruse that I will emphasise is that we were always given our ranks within the year after each semester. I don't think any other school does this, or at least did this at the time. This means that we always knew how we were tracking in relation to our peers, and which subjects we had to put more work into (hint: coming dead last in visual arts in year 8 doesn't mean you won't get into medicine!). We also had streamed maths classes, with the top 24 students in Maths 1, the next 24 in Maths 2 and so forth, so that at least for maths we were taught at the level of our ability.

        The below information comes from the aspect of someone who went from bottom-middle of the barrel at James Ruse in year 11 to a 99.80 ATAR and ranks in the top 20 in NSW state for chemistry, biology and agriculture.

        I personally did maths tutoring from years 8-11 with Ruben Guan, who is an ex-Ruse teacher who teaches out of Carlingford. Almost all his students are from selective schools and he teaches at a very high level, but expects the kids to be relatively intellgient (note: it's hard. the first 3 terms of years 7-11 are very useful and relevant to HSC). The last known details I have to contact him are 0451102066 and rguan314[at]gmail[.]com although I last went to him in 2011 so they may be out of date. He works on Weekends near the 7-11/train station/pool shop. It might be 1A Jenkins Rd Carlingford

        I did physics, chemistry and biology tutoring at ACE specialist hsc tuition in West Ryde (ascehsc.com.au). ACE was started by three UNSW med students, 2 of which were brother and sister and both got 100 UAI. While all the founders have since graduated and are working as doctors, they only draw their tutor base from 99.95 ATAR students or high state rankers. Their physics and chemistry programs are extremely good, and I know for a fact that I would not have done as well as I did in the HSC without them. They run through each module following the syllabus in depth, and also do practice questions and mock exams under exam settings. One of the best things that ACE taught me was how to answer HSC questions, targeted to the question stem to get the maximum marks. Not even James Ruse really taught me that.

        ACE has the best stats for any tuition company in Sydney, however we need to keep in mind their relatively small student base, drawn from mostly selective schools. My cohort had 87% of students achieve an ATAR of >99, which is more than most larger coaching colleges and even James Ruse could dream of. The latest cohort had 50% of students achieving >99, which is roughly in line with James Ruse. In comparison, companies like Matrix get excited when 64% of their students get an ATAR over 95. Talent 100 is proud that 16% of their students got over 99. What a joke. What we found was that at the end of the year we had the best of the best. I was ranked in the top 5 for physics, chemistry and biology at James Ruse. A number of my friends and colleagues did better than me, or slightly worse than me but still very well.

        tl;dr: Take your kids to tutoring. They will thank you, and so will your wallet. We paid $400/term for maths from years 8-11 and $900 per term for phys/chem/bio combined for 5 terms. It worked out to be far far lower than a private school. (Total approx $9700 over 5 years vs $150,000-$200,000 at scotch or kings or whatever)

        Disclosure: There are no ongoing relationships between myself and Ruben Guan or ACE Specialist HSC Tuition and I have not and will not receive any benefit for this post. Just extremely grateful that they helped me get where I am.

        • readyState on 16/05/2016 - 14:14

          Thank you again for the detailed response and wishing you a bright future!
          I have a child starting high school next year and I really appreciate your feedback.

        • hugh on 16/05/2016 - 17:54

          and then … Prime Minister.

        • cwongtech on 16/05/2016 - 18:56

          @hugh:

          The real Tony Abbott went to St Ignatius, this James Ruse med student is an imposter of the mad monk!

        • drrrr on 19/05/2016 - 18:34

          This sounded intense! You knew all the tricks in the book. I went to a normal selective school, it's interesting to know all the rumours about Ruse are true =P

          Personally, I only went to tutoring for 4U Maths and didn't think tutoring was necessary for other subjects. Then again, I also didn't score >99.5 in my HSC like I should have.

          I agree that going to a selective high school is important in terms of achieving a high HSC score. Primary school doesn't really matter up until Grade 5/6, which should be spent on preparing for the selective school exam (going to tutoring is helpful there).

          PS, I don't think many kids can stand going through what tony abbott did. I know many parents who forced their kids to go tutoring but they ended up much worse than me. Tutoring helps but only when the student is receptive.

    • hugh on 16/05/2016 - 20:58

      Hi fake Tony,

      Congrats if you achieved your goals of a high TER.
      But please do not rest on your laurels and think that a successful life is to get high marks in exams.
      The door is open to you for now so take full advantage of the situation, there will be far more rigorous and important challenges in your life than practicing past exam papers can prepare you for.
      The world needs more good doctors as it needs great teachers, leaders, engineers, entrepreneurs, artists, thinkers.

      To OP,

      Don't worry so much about your kids - they will turn out fine if you give them unconditional love and support.

      All the best.

      • Save Medicare on 16/05/2016 - 22:32
        +1

        Hi Hugh.

        My goal was to get into medicine, and I achieved that goal. That was 5 years ago. I'm currently working on uni and by no means resting on my laurels.

        Once you get into uni you find that no one asks or cares about your TER. My comment was about the economic advantage of the public school system vs private schools. Public schools can make teachers, leaders, engineers, entrepreneurs, artists and thinkers just the same.

        • hugh on 16/05/2016 - 23:22
          +2

          Good to hear.

          But take away your own personal experiences and look within yourself and you will see that it was you that made it happen.
          Nothing external could have forced you to commit to the work required to get where you are.
          Therefore whatever happened in your life didn't really have any lasting effect on the outcome because you would have tried your hardest no matter what.
          Essentially the road could have taken numerous different paths but you would have arrived at the same destination; through your determination.

          Private/private education is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
          I am sure you have supportive parents and most probably loving too which is the critical factor.

  • Findo on 15/05/2016 - 15:33
    +3

    There was a teacher at the high school I went (once top 2 HSC rank, in the Hills area) that said he sent his kids to a mid tier private school rather than let them languish at some shithole public high school in the Hills area. They tried the selective test but failed, so they went to a mid tier religious school. He taught in top private schools on the north shore and ended up at my school. For a teacher that's seen both sides of the story, I reckon there's something rotten about some public schools that warrants money being spent on private education.

    • Save Medicare on 16/05/2016 - 13:16
      +1

      I had a mate whose dad taught at the "once top 2 HSC rank, in the Hills area" school. He sent his kid to Ruse.

      • Findo on 16/05/2016 - 13:25
        +1

        I know a mate whose dad taught maths there, and sent his kid to Ruse.

        • Save Medicare on 16/05/2016 - 13:35
          +1

          Same mate then, given we're the same age.

          He's a good guy.

        • Findo on 16/05/2016 - 13:57
          +1

          @tony abbott: yeah he's a top bloke

  • Zondor on 15/05/2016 - 16:38

    IMO it really depends on the area and your budget.

    We are local to a very "prestigious" catholic school, however I ended up going to a public school because their support for the core subjects (Maths, English, ETC) was very good and their support for me to do IT got me my job today.

    Of course we ended up choosing the public, but it really is a case by case scenario in this regards.

  • AlanJ on 15/05/2016 - 20:11
    +1

    I think you have been given some excellent advice so far, but most of it has been on the philosophy of public schooling vs private schooling, and, since you already live in the Penrith area, I think you have probably made up your mind on this issue anyway, and for good and honest reasons. I admit I am surprised — shocked is probably a better word — that you have been rejected from some religious schools in the area because you don't follow that faith; I didn't think that kind of discrimination was allowed any more. In particular, I thought that the Catholic Education System was committed to opening their doors to children of any faith. Ask again. If the reason you are getting rejection messages is that, because of the exodus from the public system, there is such a heavy demand on these schools that, as someone commented already, they can afford to be choosy, considering going just one school west of your preferred area: St Finbars at Glenbrook is a fine school, and, as soon as you cross the river, the pressure on enrolments probably drops off…. Glenbrook is like a village, and the children in the area are "village kids". If I am wrong and even St Finbars won't look at you, then someone has already suggested St Paul's Grammar (it's not, however, at Emu Plains, it's at Cranebrook). It is also a great school, and, if its fees are a bit of a stretch, you can always ask (in later years, when the fee structure really goes up) for an academic or Music Scholarship. I sent two children through St Paul's (all five through St Finbars!), and they both loved it… one of them now teaches there, part-time: THEY asked HER… it's that kind of school: if you're the right kind of person, you're not forgotten when you finish year 12. Good luck!

    • sal78 on 15/05/2016 - 20:27

      they can be selective when they are full and there's a waitlist.

    • belongsinforums on 16/05/2016 - 16:05

      Discrimination is allowed when its pro religious, and in some niche jobs, like modelling

  • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2016 - 10:22
    +2

    Your kids education is only as good as his/hers want for being educated.

    If they care then you know that the money you dish out isn't going to good use.

  • nanonoise on 16/05/2016 - 12:55
    +1

    Consider spending the money on bridging the gap externally. Private tuition, educational camps during the holidays. Getting involved with interest groups. Music lessons.

    We went through a similar thing. The public schools are OKish but not great. We couldn't see the benefit in the extra dollars going to a private school so we spend that money on extra-curricular activity instead.

    Plus you can also take the time to understand the teaching syllabus and supplement the education yourself. Plenty of free online teaching resources to use now.

  • portard on 17/05/2016 - 01:27

    I went to a terrible primary school, parents sent me to Saturday school for English/Maths (<$2,000/yr) and I learnt so much more there. (1.5 hours each subject) I didn't have to actually learn or try at school until I got to year 8, and I only spent grade 3 to 6 at Saturday school. Highschool is a different story and I would actually recommend finding a good highschool. Primary school honestly does not matter much.

  • beatwixkid on 17/05/2016 - 11:30
    +2

    No-one may ever see this comment, but wanted to agree with all the comments saying that K-6 private schooling is not that important in the scheme of things. Direct parental interest in your child's education and teaching your child resilience is far more effective than private schooling.

    My (Muslim selective school teacher, ex-accountant) husband and I (Catholic doctor) decided to send our kids to a Western Sydney public primary school - a school with a high proportion of ESL students, poor Naplan results and very socioeconomically disadvantaged students. We feel this was the best way to develop his resilience and stay grounded as an individual. We do ensure our kids do their absolute best with all homework & assignments they submit (without directly interfering in their work); they also read a lot and do lots of problem solving questions and participate in extra-curricular activities in the community. We keep a tab on who they make friends with - at a certain point our eldest son fell-in with a "less-desirable" crowd, however after discussions, our son did come to his own conclusion: that was not who he was and made other friends.

    I feel we made the right decision - my kids get consistent top marks/banding, they are very involved at school and are happy kids. The money we save on a public school we use for drum/violin/dance/swimming/soccer/footy/art lessons. Our aim is to go the selective public high school route.

    There is no doubt that private schools offer many advantages. However, looking back at my life, my friends and family's lives, where your kid ultimately ends up will depend on how YOU have raised them as well as their inherent ability and interests, not their primary school. Point is, don't beat yourself up if you can't get into a non-Government school - what you do as a parent is far more effective than what a school can do.

    P.S. Interestingly - 8 out of the 10 kids I saw for bulling/anxiety issues when I was a GP in Emu Plains were private/Christian school kids.

    • cypher67 on 17/05/2016 - 13:10

      I seen it, as with everyone else's comments/feedback thanks :)

    • ozhunter on 17/05/2016 - 20:57
      -1

      P.S. Interestingly - 8 out of the 10 kids I saw for bulling/anxiety issues when I was a GP in Emu Plains were private/Christian school kids.

      I'm surprised. A lot of kids that came to the private school because of the bullying they received in public schools.

      • beatwixkid on 18/05/2016 - 13:19

        I would have thought that too. From what I saw, it was the clique mentality in private schools, maybe because certain social circles tend to send their kids together in groups and if you're not from that circle it's harder to fit in? But yes, bullying occurs everywhere.

        • ozhunter on 18/05/2016 - 14:17

          Cliques happen in both types of schools.

          But yes, bullying occurs everywhere.

          Agreed, but I think it's dealt with more swiftly. The higher teacher student ratio was also helpful.

  • 2ndeffort on 17/05/2016 - 12:01
    +3

    At the risk of sounding a bit snobby, there is more to kids education that passing exams. Young adults form social connections and certainly as teenagers seem to take more inspiration and direction from social networks and friendship groups than they do from parents. As young kids, sure they will just do what mum and dad say, this gradually changes though as they get older and try telling 17 year olds they arent to see a certain friend anymore etc, wont end well! in my experience, people that are prepared to sacrifice things to help their kids education are more invested in their kids in general. I know that some people simply cannot afford it regardless of their love for their kids, my parents were like that! Nevertheless, the friendship groups my kids hang around with seem to come from good families and they seem to all be pretty focused kids wanting to do well in life, not dropout future criminals, I could be wrong, there are no guarantees but I think the peers my kids hang out with are at the very least not a bad influence on them.

    Although none of this is certain and I am a product of government schools myself, I found that some of the other kids my kids were hanging out with at government schools weren't that great. One of my kids was attacked in grade 3 before we moved them from government schools by another kid with a leather belt, has permanent scars on his head from being hit with the metal buckle (he is 19 now!). it took 3 teachers to drag the little SOB off him, nobody knows why he attacked my son in the middle of a class. Apparently he was on his 3rd school. I know there are bad kids at private schools as well, the private school my boys went to expelled a bunch. My oldest boy was dumped by a girlfriend in yr 10 and became depressed, she continued to message him on facebook telling him he should kill himself etc. This was all at a private school but when we took it to the school, including the message history (that my son had tried to delete to protect her but that we used backup software to recover) they were fantastic, within a day they had interviewed everyone and had the girl expelled!

    I dont know that saving the fees and using them for tutors is a viable strategy. If your kids are hanging around with a bunch of losers at school and being influenced and wanting to fit in with people that dont value an education then there wont be enough tutors in the world to improve their grades. Tutors can only help someone that wants to learn, they cant improve the grades for someone that doesn't care and wants to drop out of school to hang out with his loser mates.

    • JimB on 17/05/2016 - 16:09
      +3

      I agree.

      Public school student myself, but sending both my kids to private primary (and in future high school).

      I went to school with a lot of dead beats in a working class suburb. A few did ok, but not many.

      Sending them to both private primary may or may not benefit them (over public schools), but just like myself I can see all of the other parents have a strong interest in my children's well being. They are also well behaved.

    • AlanJ on 17/05/2016 - 17:44
      +2

      Gosh, 2ndEffort, I was really relieved to see this comment, because I have been wanting to say the same thing for two days… But I had already contributed once, and I thought it mightn't be good manners to jump in again with another argument. But it did seem to me that so many of the above comments implied that ALL school is about is achieving an ATAR that's a world-beater, or getting into a Selective School. But I know that neither of these was anywhere near my top priority when I put my five kids through school. I DID want them, first of all, to be safe at school and protected from a small but significant part of the population that, frankly, I didn't want them to even know was out there until they were ready. Of course, as you say, there are bad kids in private schools. But principal of private schools have the power to get rid of them…and they do! That's far less-easy for the harried Public School principal…. Usually the best he can do is to work out a "sweetheart" deal with the school down the road: "if you'll take our worst kid off our hands, we will take your worst off you." It works, to a degree, but it's cold comfort to the parents of the good kids, who now have a NEW thug (and the family that goes with him) to learn from.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2016 - 19:28
    +1

    Private schools and the art of ripping off parents.

  • serpserpserp on 17/05/2016 - 20:18
    +1

    I went to public and private schools throughout my life, quite a few of them as I moved around a lot. I can honestly say that the expensive private school are good in the fact you do generally get better behaved kids that want to learn (or at least feel the pressure to learn!) while in the cheaper private schools you often have a mixture or good kids and basket case kids from public schools that were getting picked on so much the cheap private school was the only option (sometimes also less than stellar kids from rich schools also dropping down because they didn't suit the culture). The public schools I went to were a mixed bag, and were really different state to state (Canberra was excellent for one, but it was soooo cold).

    Now I wonder where I will send my kids. Although I see the merits of private schools I really believe it is the attitude of the parents which go 90% of the way to helping kids succeed in school. My parents were smart, but hopeless with helping their kids and we all struggled to even make it out of high school (all the moving probably didn't help too). But essentially, if you aren't there to help your kids in the critical moments through their school life (and life in general) things are going to be so hard when they finally form into that "young adult" through high school. I hope I get the opportunity to send my kids to a public school, and they get along with the other kids and if they have any learning issues I can help them personally or get good tutors to do so. Quite frankly I think killing myself to make the money to send them to the best schools will take away from the help I can give them personally to get through school and be successful in whatever they want.

  • maximum on 17/05/2016 - 22:33

    I sent my children to a brand new public primary school in a good area but for high school they are going private (catholic). as much as I would like to support public schools I was not comfortable with my son going to the local high school which has a terrible reputation. we are macedonian orthodox so 2nd on the religious list that our school takes.

    Not all private schools are equal though. Most kids expelled from my sons schools go on to be accepted by another local private school (which has much higher fees) usually after a "building contribution". I would be disappointed if our school took in kids who were expelled from another school.

    As much as I like the thought of saving the money for tutoring if your child loses the joy of going to school (through bullying etc) no amount of tutoring will help. good luck in finding a place

  • shaybisc on 18/05/2016 - 10:15

    How much of the school day do they spend on religion at religious schools?

    I went to a boarding school run by the Presbyterian Church for a while but Presbyterians aren't religious, as far as I could tell, and there was nothing religious about the school day. There was no religious instruction.They made you go to church on Sunday for an hour or so.

    • ozhunter on 18/05/2016 - 16:24

      At the Christian school I went to, a different student would pray in the morning, lunch, and home time(was around 5-15 seconds on average). We had a 45 minute church session each week, and we required to recite a small passage of Scripture(around 10 verses) each term.

  • tryagain on 18/05/2016 - 16:23

    OP to your original question, as this seems to have turned into a public vs private debate amoungst other things. If you want to get into Catholic schools you need to look at what you can do to move yourself up the list, My neigbours went through the motions a few years back of getting their child christened, this (and I expect claiming they were now Catholic) moved them to the top of the list even though they don't have anything else to do with the Catholic Church (not really that uncommon for "Catholics" really).
    Other options include moving into a differant catchment for a better Public school, this genreally doesnt have to be for ever as once they are in they can stay or, alternitavely chat to some other public schools to see if they take out of catchment places.

    With my Kids we didnt like the public school literally next door so looked at a local (affordable) private school as well as a nearby public school with an excellent reputation, We liked the public school alot better and applied for an out of catchment place and luckily got one, if we didnt I were seriously considering perminately moving or taking a 6 month lease on a premesis in the catchment, this would have been a small cost compared to 7 years of private school tuition and this Public school was better than the affordable private school.

    I would also recommend going and having a look/tour of our local public school, occasionally reputations arn't deserved or a change of principal can sometimes have a drastic change in the culture of a school but can take alot longer for the reputation to catch up.

  • Oliver on 19/05/2016 - 00:21

    Sorry you live out in those shit areas. Maybe apply to non-religious private schools.

  • eleon00 on 19/05/2016 - 01:15

    I started out in a catholic school all the way to high school. Through heavy indoctrination, I, like most kids, believed that sh!t. Only in uni did I become an atheist and with heavy tribulations. I had difficulty coming to terms with my belief and science. Thankfully, science and evidence won. Kids will believe things taught to them at a young age and it would be a prudent advise to not send them to a religious school. To quote Hypatia, "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them."

    However, considering your situation, the best option would be to either home school your kids or participate in distance education. The second best option will be to send them to a private school (albeit religious) but encourage them to think critically and rationally (if you really believe sending them there will be better for their education). I still turned out to be an atheist despite religious indoctrination but probably half of my class are staunchly catholic. On the one hand, I don't think public school teaching is bad. I agree with one poster who grew up in Japan - its the motivation and the drive that pushes them to excellence.

    I hope you find clarity with your dilemma.

    • ozhunter on 19/05/2016 - 01:43

      but probably half of my class are staunchly catholic.

      Couldn't you just show them the science and evidence? If it's that indisputable, wouldn't they also become atheists?

      • cwongtech on 19/05/2016 - 08:59

        Couldn't you just show them the science and evidence? If it's that indisputable, wouldn't they also become atheists?

        Unless you find a way to easily convert any religious person who's belief is the bible, it always comes down to "but the bible said this therefore it must be true". It's circular logic.

        • ozhunter on 19/05/2016 - 12:14

          If there was hard evidence that disproves the Bible(or Koran etc.), I think that would convert a lot of people.

          Imo, a lot of scientific studies are biased or completely unreliable eg. evolution.

        • cwongtech on 19/05/2016 - 14:02

          @ozhunter:

          If there was hard evidence that disproves the Bible(or Koran etc.), I think that would convert a lot of people.

          It's easy to say "Once a upon a time there lived Bob", but it's very hard to prove there was no "Bob".

          Imo, a lot of scientific studies are biased or completely unreliable eg. evolution.

          Survival of the fittest definitely works.
          Also, this video is quite a good depiction of the justification of most if not all wars

        • ozhunter on 19/05/2016 - 18:35

          @cwongtech:

          It's easy to say "Once a upon a time there lived Bob", but it's very hard to prove there was no "Bob".

          True, you would have to have faith in whatever you choose to believe. The complexity of the life, earth, the universe and everything it contains is enough proof for me.

  • The Gent on 19/05/2016 - 01:43

    OP: as an ex-private school student (this one was C of E) just don't.

  • shaybisc on 19/05/2016 - 07:49
    +1

    Many private schools now get more in public funding per student than public schools do.

    "At Dulwich Hill the government-run Dulwich Hill Primary gets $9130 of government funds per student, while down the road the privately-run St Paul of The Cross Catholic Primary School gets $9255, plus what it charges parents.At Rooty Hill, Rooty Hill Primary gets $9195 while St Aidan's Primary gets $9202. At Lidcombe, Lidcombe Public gets $10,623 while St Joachim's Catholic Primary gets $11,804."

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/election-2016-what-kind-of-gov…

    On present trends the average private school student will receive more than the average public school student in public funding by 2020. So the argument that private schools are saving taxpayer money is rubbish.

  • cypher67 on 19/05/2016 - 09:26
    +3

    Update
    I have changed the title as many people have gone off topic or I was not clear on what information I was after. This was less about should I go public or private, I understand that there is just as many amazing public schools as there is private, so telling me to go one or the other isn't really what I am looking for.

    Specific to where I live, my public catchment school does not meet my expectations and the private options are bias towards their religious affiliation. Specific to the Penrith region I was looking for options and opinions.

    Thank-you to everyone's responses, some were very helpful and provided some insight that has influenced our decision.

    We have decided to continue with the private application process in a hope we find a suitable school, however not too worried if we don't get in. We will use the public school in the interim with the intention of providing maximum support from us the parents and extra curricular activities to ensure he remains above standard. We would then explore our options of moving into a better catchment from around year 4 onwards.

  • tomorrows_angel on 19/05/2016 - 09:50
    +1

    I note that noone here has actually named schools…

    I used to be a primary teacher, I have a friend who lives in Werrington who is a teacher, and I have a house in South Penrith.

    Try asking around about Penrith South public. It's only 5 mins from you (maybe 10 with traffic in the morning) the school environment is encompassing, the teachers seem to be compassionate, and I know people who have kids there who are very happy with it. Whilst you're out of area, most schools will accept out of area enrolments if they have the space.

  • AlanJ on 19/05/2016 - 17:59
    +2

    I agree that the discussion swiftly branched off into philosophies of public vs private and even atheism vs religion, and I hope the new heading gets things back on track…. But there have been some specific recommendations for you, even though my own two (St Finbars, Glenbrook, and St Pauls Grammar, Cranebrook), are at the very edge of your preferred distance range. Here is another closer to where you asked: Penrith Anglican College. I can't speak from any personal experience (unlike with the other two), and I don't even know if they start from kindergarten… But I have heard that it is a particularly fine school, almost up there with St Pauls. I guess, however, you've looked at this one already.
    I hope, after reading everyone's advice, you are becoming a little more confident in your decision… As you will have noticed, there are successes and failures in all the systems, and strengths and weaknesses in any choice…but if you do find, in hindsight, that your choice wasn't as successful as you might have hoped, there are several additional avenues (such as coaching centres) to help turn the ship around. And your son already has the most important single asset which will determine his final outcome, in education and in life….a parent who really cares. So it's all looking good!

    • cypher67 on 19/05/2016 - 22:10

      Thanks AlanJ - We looked at St Finbars and it wasnt practical for us to travel that far, however given our current options we may end up applying. Glenbrook public looks amazing, and we will apply for an out of district application however it is unlikely, worth a shot though. St Pauls and PAC are both in excess of $10k a year and whilst I wish I could afford that I have 2 kids and I cant afford $20k a year.

      Thanks for kind words, we are trying our best and if the private system is not an option we will make do in addition to what our public school has to offer.

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