Sold The Car Without Having Buyers Details, Rego Not Transferred - Now Getting Toll Fines

Lharik on 12/05/2016 - 16:55
Last edited 12/05/2016 - 17:44 by 1 other user

Hello community,

I'm in big trouble. I sold my car via Gumtree, wasn't aware of having buyers information (name, address and licence no.). After 1 month just found out buyer hasn't transferred the car yet to his name. Getting lots of toll notice. Don't know what other fines are on the way.

Called Service NSW, they said they can't do anything without buyers information. Went to police they can't so anything.

Only information I have is him mobile number which is switched off, sent few text messages as well.

Please suggest me any solution.

I know I'm stupid. Have done very big mistake but I'm human and (expletive) happened. Please help me.

Thanks

Automotive

Comments

  • nocure on 12/05/2016 - 16:58

    seriously… try to google his mobile number…do you have anything in writing that shows the sale?

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 17:05

      I tried to search his number on google but no luck.

      • sv123 on 13/05/2016 - 11:06
        +7

        Install an app on your phone called Truecaller. It scans incoming and outgoing calls and tells you the name of the number. Also just ring up your VicRoads equivalent and cancel the registration. I sold my car on gumtree the other month. New owner also got a fine 1 week of having the car. Luckily I had a photo of their license and just filled the back of fine form in. Sorry to hear of your situation.

        • Nametab on 13/05/2016 - 14:35
          +4

          +1 truecaller, essentially if anyone has him in their contact list and shares/uploads the details to the database, you'll be able to retrieve that info.

          Same goes with Whatsapp/Viber - if he's in your address book it will show 'contacts' with using whatsapp along with their name/pic. You can try searching the number in Facebook too.

          I had to trackdown someone making abusive calls at work and was able to find them through WA/Truecaller.

      • Sandeepk on 03/10/2018 - 07:17

        Hi i sold my car via Facebook on 30 sep 2018 wasn't aware of having buyers information (name, address and licence no.). After 1day i realised i need his details for disposal and try to contact him though FB but he is not responding immediately i contacted nsw services just found out buyer hasn't transferred the car yet to his name
        Called Service NSW, they said they can't do anything without buyers information. Went to police they can't so anything.
        Only information I have is his facebook profile name which is blocked my FB, sent few messages as well. He seen the messages but not given any reply to i have the screen shots please advise me how you overcome from this situation thank you

        • spaij on 03/10/2018 - 08:33

          Read the advice below or open a new thread. This is a very old thread, not sure why comments are still open…

  • airzone on 12/05/2016 - 17:03
    +12

    Cancel the registration.

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 17:06

      Can't cancel the rego without returning the number plate.

      • battler on 12/05/2016 - 17:21
        +20

        there's a stolen/lost plates form.
        perhaps try this then unreg.

      • frutter on 12/05/2016 - 23:14
        +1

        just like the above comment lost stolen is the way to go

      • cozmo on 13/05/2016 - 04:42
        -2

        Report the plates LOST and pay the fines already racked up.

        • subywagon on 13/05/2016 - 12:36
          +22

          Report the car as stolen ;)

        • abh_gup on 14/05/2016 - 23:59

          @subywagon: and contact the police

        • TheMoDz on 25/05/2016 - 23:13

          @abh_gup:
          then when he gets caught break down and cry and point at him shouting, THIEF!!!

  • Olokun on 12/05/2016 - 17:05
    +5

    These are the things you should look into

    • Getting the vehicle unregistered

    • lodging a notice of disposal (don't worry about it being rejected) you want it on record.

    • Unknown user statements (we have them in VIC, i am unsure if NSW has the same)

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 17:08

      Can't unregister without returning number plate.

      Maybe submitting notice of disposal but son't have any information of buyer (only mobile number)

      Not sure about unknown user statement. Will look at it.

      Thanks

      • Olokun on 12/05/2016 - 17:10
        +7

        There is always a way without the need to return the plates. How would you do so if the car was incinerated?

        Edit. RMS page says to return them "if possible"

        Once you have done the above.

        complete an objection

        What ever you do, do not let the notices become enforcement orders.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 17:19
    +16

    As the number plates are still in your name, the chap who bought your vehicle is technically in unauthorised possession of them.

    Are the plates legally yours?
    * Yes, because they have not been transferred into anybody else's name.

    Do you have possession of the plates?
    * No.

    Based on these two questions alone, you should be able to visit your nearest police station and file a report outlining your circumstances with whatever evidence you have. In other words, file a report for stolen plates.

    Take that report to the RTA in your state and you should easily be able to dissociate yourself from the plates, given that they have been dishonestly used.

      • whooah1979 on 12/05/2016 - 21:35
        +11

        they are not stolen, he paid for the vehicle

        who paid for what?

        the buyer is using op's number plate to avoid paying tolls. op must report them stolen before they use the number plate for other offences.

        • whooah1979 on 12/05/2016 - 22:02
          +17

          @oscargamer:

          the car and plates are not stolen

          your right. the car/vin hasn't been stolen. the buyer paid for that. however, the number plate still belongs to op until the buyer contacts the rms and transfer them to their name.

        • whooah1979 on 12/05/2016 - 22:12
          +2

          @oscargamer:

          ok, i see where this is headed.

          op, you need report the number plate. you can expect more hurt if you don't.

        • oscargamer on 12/05/2016 - 22:13
          +3

          @whooah1979:

          what do you mean report?

          you need to contact the issuing authority for the fines and do a stat dec stating you have sold the car to an unknown person

          it's not that difficult

        • harik on 12/05/2016 - 22:36

          @oscargamer:

          I've tried to expain my situation at ServiceNSW, they says this is my responsibility to find out the buyers details. I'm really worried and helpless

        • oscargamer on 12/05/2016 - 22:45
          +8

          @harikarki:

          they are wrong

          sign a stat dec or an 'sold user statement'

          A user statement is a statement in writing which nominates the person who was responsible for the vehicle at the time of the offence ("known user statement"), or states why the owner is unable to nominate the person responsible ("unknown user statement"), or states that the vehicle has been sold ("sold user statement"), or states that the vehicle or the number plates where stolen at the time of the offence ("illegal user statement").

        • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 01:37
          +5

          @oscargamer: the car is not stolen but the plates are. Even if the plates belong to the State then OP does not have ownership to even "sell" them as they were not his in the first place. The buyer was only given possession of the plates for the purpose of transferring the registration and the OP is not even authorised to hand over the plates to someone else for any other purpose than what the law allows. By the buyer using them in this unauthorised fashion it is now considered "Lost" from OP's possession and "stolen" from the State.

          LosList and stolen plates come under the same banner

        • Nametab on 13/05/2016 - 14:35
          +3

          @harikarki: Don't go to ServiceNSW - go to an actual RMS if possible.

          You should also be able to provide anything along the lines of bank transfers, text messages, gumtree messages - not as 'evidence' but just supporting docs to back your stat dec.

        • BargainMyMiddleName on 16/05/2016 - 13:03
          +2

          @harik: Without making a scene, don't walk out of Service NSW without a getting a resolution or help. Their motto is not to let any one walk out of the service centre unsatisfied (all within reason of course). If they cant help you for whatever reason, then they should point you in the direction of the people that can.

      • shadowarrior on 15/05/2016 - 02:16
        +1

        Exactly. He paid for the vehicle, not the right to use the exact same number plates and the OP's registration details. Law says, once you make a purchase of a registered vehicle, you have to change the registration to your name within a strict dead line. Failing to do so, is a crime.

  • giu on 12/05/2016 - 17:20
    +18

    Report it as stolen? If the guy who "bought" it get's pulled over and says he paid for it, he won't have any way to prove it. You could potentially get your car back and keep his money. But the more honest thing to do would be to only complete the transfer paperwork once he pays the fines.

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 17:35

      He got the paper where I've signed it. It was last month 9th. Maybe he can use that as a proof..?

      • giu on 12/05/2016 - 17:45
        +3

        Car is still registered under your name. He has had 9 months to hand it in. Police will likely question why he hasn't transferred it.

        • spaij on 13/05/2016 - 10:25
          +3

          I think it was sold on 9 April… So it's been 1 month. Definitely enough time to transfer it.

        • Ametric on 13/05/2016 - 12:58
          +2

          @spaij: in VIC you have 14 days to transfer the car (If the form was filled by OP with dates and the like)…
          Cool, if you have more time in NSW for this :)

        • spaij on 13/05/2016 - 13:23

          @Ametric: I think it's the same in NSW. I was responding specifically to this quote:

          He has had 9 months to hand it in

          Which is not correct… ("Only" been 1 month).

    • oscargamer on 12/05/2016 - 22:21
      -8

      giu - ever heard of the charge of "false report to police"

      that's what you are suggesting the OP does……not a great suggestion i think

      • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 01:39
        +4

        Utter BS. If OP explains the situation to them, The police would not even file the report if they believe it's not an offence

      • abh_gup on 15/05/2016 - 00:04
        +1

        simply put, if reported as 'stolen regardless of anything else that I've seen oscargamer comment above, the police can pull over the vehicle if found driven or on roads, and ask for papers, the lack of which would prompt the police to call the owner of licence plates. Then, OP can pursue avenues.

  • AMLagonda on 12/05/2016 - 17:43

    If he does not transfer it then the car and plates are now stolen from you…

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 17:52
      +1

      Can I report as stolen as I've signed on the paper then. But its been more then 1 month he hasn't transferred yet.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 17:57
        +4

        You cannot report the car stolen. You should report the plates as stolen, then provide the police report to the RTA to dissociate yourself from the plates.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 22:43
          +6

          @oscargamer:

          You cannot 'sell' registration, nor does a sale 'include' plates.

          Why?

          Because neither the seller nor the buyer owns the plates, they are the property of the issuing agency. And I'm sure you'll agree that you cannot sell something that you don't own.

          Plates and registration can only be transferred, and you have a right to possess and use the assigned plates in a lawful manner.

          As the buyer is not possessing plates for which they have a right of use for, the buyer is in unlawful possession of the plates. BUT…

          The rights of use will only be transferred to the buyer, once the seller forwards a Disposal Notice to the RTA. For all we know the buyer may have forwarded the Registration Transfer Notice to the RTA but that is worthless and cannot be actioned until the RTA receives the DN.

          To lodge the DN, the seller would need the buyer's details. But that's unavailable at present.

          Given that the OP has admitted to not sending a DN, it is actually the OP's fault.

        • cDNA on 13/05/2016 - 19:45
          +4

          @oscargamer:

          You don't understand the fine print of the law, mate.

        • abh_gup on 15/05/2016 - 00:05
          -1

          @KaptnKaos:
          i agree with the part 'OP's fault'
          C'mon, who lets a buyer go with their registered number plates on a car that's sold and to be driven out of sight forever!?
          AND OP has not yet contacted the police! Where's the civic and common sense in that?
          Some people simply amaze me.
          Let OP bear atleast some consequence.

        • matt_will_fix_it on 15/05/2016 - 20:17
          -1

          @abh_gup:

          C'mon, who lets a buyer go with their registered number plates on a car that's sold and to be driven out of sight forever!?

          Umm most people do… however they also have the details of the person who purchased the car.

        • abh_gup on 16/05/2016 - 01:14
          -1

          @matt_will_fix_it: I've always removed the number plates before they go. Most of the people I know do the same too.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2016 - 14:00

          @abh_gup: I won't be buying a car from you then. I want a car I can drive away legally.

        • abh_gup on 23/05/2016 - 23:20
          +2

          @Euphemistic: Keeping it legal!

          You can obtain the Unregistered Vehicle Permit from VicRoads, by calling or visiting them.
          Unregistered vehicles cannot be driven on the road unless an unregistered vehicle permit has been obtained or the vehicle is exempt from registration.
          You can get a Unregistered Vehicle Permit (UVP) when your vehicle is unregistered and/or it is impractical or unreasonable to have the vehicle registered during the period of the permit. A UVP must not be used as a replacement for full registration.

          UVPs are intended to cover situations such as:
          -preparing an unregistered vehicle for registration
          -moving a vehicle from place to place on a one-off basis
          -using heavy earthmoving equipment which need to cross or operate on public roads in the -course of construction work and cannot meet registration requirements
          -using a rally vehicle on the road
          -using a carnival float on the road.

          It is the responsibility of the driver to demonstrate that the journey is covered by the permit.
          https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/limited-use-per…

      • Bargaingeek on 14/05/2016 - 12:07
        +2

        legally the plates are now stolen since he hasnt transfered, what are u still doing here waiting around?? dont wait and just go ahead and do it right away just like everyone advised you.

  • PVA on 12/05/2016 - 17:45
    +1

    report the car stolen.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 17:56
      +3

      You could report the plates stolen, but probably not the car itself if the OP received payment for it.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 22:27
          +3

          You cannot 'sell' registration, nor does a sale 'include' plates.

          Why?

          Because neither the seller nor the buyer owns the plates, they are the property of the issuing agency. And I'm sure you'll agree that you cannot sell something that you don't own.

          Plates and registration can only be transferred, and you have a right to possess and use the assigned plates in a lawful manner.

          As the buyer is not possessing plates for which they have a right of use for, the buyer is in unlawful possession of the plates. BUT…

          The rights of use will only be transferred to the buyer, once the seller forwards a Disposal Notice to the RTA. For all we know the buyer may have forwarded the Registration Transfer Notice to the RTA but that is worthless and cannot be actioned until the RTA receives the DN.

          To lodge the DN, the seller would need the buyer's details. But that's unavailable at present.

          Given that the OP has admitted to not sending a DN, it is actually the OP's fault.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/05/2016 - 10:11

          By that logic, I hope that no one was sleeping in the back seat when the "new owner" took "posession" of said vehicle.

          He would then own a person.

          Call the Confederacy! I've discovered a way to bring slavery back!

    • harik on 12/05/2016 - 18:09
      +5

      Yeah I can take any word at this stage

  • chumlee on 12/05/2016 - 18:02

    Follow what this old chap had to do.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/100yearold-man-fig…

  • me786 on 12/05/2016 - 18:28
    +2

    Sorry to hear your situation.
    There should be a sellers copy and a buyers copy Transfer Form.
    I hope you have signed the form. Did you submit your (seller) copy to the respective Dept?

    • chumlee on 12/05/2016 - 18:32
      +2

      I take it has doesn't have buyers details to complete and lodge his form and was relying on seller lodging completed forms

      • me786 on 12/05/2016 - 18:46
        +2

        In WA the seller needs to submit the seller copy form to Dept. of Transport within certain time frame (otherwise penalty applies).
        Does this rule apply to NSW?

  • dazweeja on 12/05/2016 - 18:37
    +3

    Check the locations and times on the toll notices. If there's a pattern, wait for him at the location and time and follow him ;)

    • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2016 - 18:53
      +2

      It's not worth the risk.

  • Katie2014 on 12/05/2016 - 19:07
    +14

    EDIT: Sorry, just realised that you probably can't submit the notice of disposal without the buyers NSW licence details. I'd still give it a try, and as mentioned above, then at least it's on record.

    It's probably a silly question, but have you lodged the Notice of Disposal?
    According to the RMS website, "the new owner can only transfer the registration online once you've submitted your notice of disposal."

    Link to Notice of Disposal info

    Notice of Disposal

    When you sell a vehicle, or it’s no longer in your possession, it’s your responsibility to notify Roads and Maritime by lodging a Notice of Disposal. There is no charge.

    If you forget to tell us that you no longer have the vehicle, you could be held responsible for parking and other driving offences until the new registered operator transfers the registration into their name. Lodging a Notice of Disposal helps you avoid unnecessary fines.

    If you receive an enforcement notice for a vehicle you no longer have in your possession, you normally have an opportunity to advise the issuing agency that you’re no longer responsible for the vehicle, generally by submitting a Statutory Declaration. Contact the agency that issued the enforcement notice for more information.

    Good luck. I'm sorry you're in this situation, and I hope it all gets sorted out quickly.

  • Aust on 12/05/2016 - 19:19
    +3

    I'd get a move on if I were you as i'm guessing the speed / red light camera fines are in the mail also.

  • thepigs on 12/05/2016 - 21:18
    +1

    Just keep complaining to different people at the RTA. You'll find someone competent eventually.

    • whooah1979 on 12/05/2016 - 21:38

      the number plate is technically registered to op. it's unlikely that the rms will do anything without the buyer's details or a police report stating that the plate has been stolen.

        • whooah1979 on 12/05/2016 - 22:08
          +1

          who commits the toll offence? the car or the driver or the owner?

          hmm, you do realise that the rms don't give a crap about who drives the vehicle at first go. they will go after the registered owner/s. the owner/s then has the opportunity to nominate the driver. op doesn't have those details. the rms will tell op "bad luck" and forward the fines to the sdro.

        • oscargamer on 12/05/2016 - 22:10
          -2

          @whooah1979:

          wrong again

          read the post above by Katie2014

          particularly the bit she has bolded

          you CANNOT be responsible for a car that you do not have control over…..or do you think you can be?

        • Baysew on 13/05/2016 - 00:27

          @oscargamer: The bolded bit, by Katie2014, doesn't appear on the link that was provided.

          Link to Notice of Disposal info

        • Katie2014 on 13/05/2016 - 10:27
          +1

          @Baysew:

          Sorry, link for that bit is here: http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/registration/transfer/

          (The section I copied and pasted is about half-way down the page, under the heading 'Notice of Disposal)

      • cozmo on 13/05/2016 - 04:48
        +3

        Lost… the plates are lost…. op just needs to submit form that they are lost then cancel rego….. they may even have to buy the new plates then return them… just so there is a number attached to the rego.

  • StewBalls on 13/05/2016 - 00:20
    +2

    Pretty sure Batman handles this kind of shit…

  • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 00:51
    +9

    Look for pattern with him using tollways, then camp out and wait for him to go past. Then hunt him

    • Hirolol on 13/05/2016 - 01:08

      Best commment

  • DarkOz on 13/05/2016 - 07:06
    +1

    The car looked to be sold as the paper work was completed. The plates should have been transferred but they haven't.

    Prove to the department that the vehicle doesn't belong to you any more.
    1. If they accept it then the new owner had stolen your plates so you should report it to the Police as stolen plates.
    2. If they don't accept it then the 'new owner' had stolen your vehicle so you should report it to the Police as a stolen vehicle.

  • ltjet on 13/05/2016 - 07:40

    Just report the car as stolen.That will fix him.
    Then you should be able to submit that report to the tollway company and get them cancelled.

    Not the best advice but it will work.

  • rt1111 on 13/05/2016 - 08:28
    +1

    I am actually surprised this doesn't happen more often. After buying a car recently, there is a big temptation not to submit the registration since you have to then pay the utterly ridiculous "stamp duty".

    It would seem more fair if there were two forms that were filled out at the time of sale, and that both the seller and the buyer can lodge.

    Anyway good luck OP, what a crappy situation to be in :-(

    • SnoozeAndLose on 13/05/2016 - 08:36

      In NSW there are always two part on the form to fill, one for seller one for buyer, they are to be filled and either side can bring to form to RTA/RMS or online.

      I do not know why OP can skip this step?

      • harik on 13/05/2016 - 08:39

        I wasn't aware of it. Car was from auction, bought it and after few months I sold it but with big mistake.

        • SnoozeAndLose on 13/05/2016 - 08:50

          Are you selling it for a profit or just you doesn't like to car or the car has faults?

          if the car has issues the person buying off you from Gumtree may be doing something this on purpose.

        • harik on 13/05/2016 - 09:43

          @LoveBargain15: Wasn't for profit. I won it on auction and it was manual car so I didn't like the car and sold it. My first car and having not much technical idea about car but i had done servicing 2 weeks. before sold it to him.

          As his mobile is switched off so I'm bit suspisious about his behiavour.

      • Euphemistic on 13/05/2016 - 09:14

        In NSW you are SUPPOSED to submit a notice of disposal when you sell, its not optional. Once it's in you absolve yourself of liability for the vehicle. The form is either online, or on the back of the rego paper and you tear the bottom off before you hand over the paper.

        • rt1111 on 13/05/2016 - 10:20

          oh ok, i didn't think it was required in Vic, at least i didn't when i sold my car…

  • huangjun604 on 13/05/2016 - 08:54

    You sold the car but not transfer your car registration? If so, how the buyer provide a evidence that the car is belongs to him? I live in VIC and bought a car before, both seller and buyer went to the VicRoads to do the transfer then the car was finally belongs to me. If you still the owner, you can do anything.

    • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 13/05/2016 - 10:34
      +1

      Technically in VIC only the buyer has to go into vicroads to lodge the rego transfer forms (if buying privately). And they have 14 days to do this.

      The seller just has to keep a copy of the signed transfer forms, so if any fines crop up in between when they sold it and when the transfer was processed, they have proof they sold the vehicle.

      Its in the buyers interest to lodge the transfer form as well, otherwise the renewal will go to the seller who obviously won't pay for it. Then the buyer will be driving around unregistered.

  • cowiie on 13/05/2016 - 08:54
    -1

    Go to the police and file a stolen vehicle report.

  • kima on 13/05/2016 - 08:59
    +7

    harikarki this is a question you should be asking the RMS or a solicitor. Your not the only person who has done this and yes its alot of hassle. You might have an easier time going through court but keep trying RMS first and ask for a manager if they aren't helpful maybe even nsw ombudsman? It was your responsibility to lodge a notice of disposal to start with so they are not going to be impressed with you.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 09:19
      +2

      Best advice so far.
      Why ask a bunch of people who really don't have a clue?

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