Dear Tailgaters - What Do You Want?

Hi all,

Just wanted to understand the perspective of tailgaters and also hear from others in how they deal with the issue.

TL;DR: Why do you tailgate? How do you stop others doing it to you, even if you're going at the limit etc?

My most recent scenario was last night. 2am on the M4, on my way home. Posted speed limit is 90, so I'm doing 90, in the left-hand-most lane out of three lanes. The motorway is entirely empty except for one car behind me, which speeds up and sits ridiculously close to my tail. I mean, at some point the headlights were partially disappearing in my rear view mirror because the car was pushing up so close! The other two lanes next to me are completely empty. He stays there for a good 4-5mins, and all I can think is how unsafe this is, but I refuse to go over the speed limit because he can clearly overtake. Finally, I tap on my brakes lightly to try and get him to back off - once. Twice. Three times. He finally gives me some distance, but after 30 seconds he's back again. Sits there for another few minutes, and again I tap my brakes which causes my car to slow down a bit.. down to 85, 84, 83.. and finally, he changes lanes into the middle lane and zooms off.

I do notice I get tailgated every now and then - perhaps as I'm a P-plater, or just by coincidence. When I do:

  • I check to make sure I'm going at the correct and max speed limit (eg if it's 90, I'll be going at 90). All good.
  • I'm usually in the left-hand lane by default. If it's a single-lane road, I'll try to pull over as soon as I can (eg into a small side street) and just let the person pass.
  • Otherwise, if it's a single-lane road and I can't pull over anywhere yet (or I don't feel like it sometimes!), then I'll just hold strong and keep going as I am. Same for if I'm driving on a multi-lane road and the tailgating car has clear opportunity to overtake, but chooses to continue riding up behind me instead. I refuse to be intimidated by people driving up riiiight behind me as if they can just will me to speed for them (at least, I refuse to be outwardly intimidated by it).
  • I almost never tap my breaks as I've heard it can incite road rage or whatever.. but in last night's situation, it was just so ridiculous and unsafe I felt that I had to do something, and it eventually worked.

So my question to all tailgaters is - what do you want from us?
Is it a game to see if you can intimidate other drivers? (in my situation above, I can honestly not think of a single other reason. Open to any opinions though!) Or is it that you just want others to go over the speed limit too? Or.. when you have an avenue of overtaking available.. why would you not take it? And if you don't have such an avenue, but the car in front IS doing the speed limit - do you expect us to break the law because you're in a rush / late for your meeting / etc? Are car's odometers just calibrated SO differently? (I have a digital one).

And to others who deal with tailgaters regularly - Beyond what I've already mentioned, do you have any additional tips or techniques or advice in how to further deal with the issue, for a fairly new driver? What's your approach, and your experiences?

TL;DR: Why do you tailgate? How do you stop others doing it to you, even if you're going at the limit etc?

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • +53

    Could be a cop, or undercover copper trying to pressure you into speeding. Happens all the time with me.

    • +1

      Oh wow, are they allowed to do that? Didn't know. Luckily I refuse to speed up.

        • +5

          Stick to the textbooks, boy.

        • +44

          Irrelevant.
          The OP was in the left most lane. The other car should have changed lanes and overtaken if they wished to travel faster.

          Massive fail there. Try again next time.

        • -7

          @dbun1:

          Agreed. Didn't read the wall of text but was replying to the bolded part.

        • +4

          That's not true anyway. Radars have (or at least used to have, I believe the tech has evolved since) a 10km/h margin for error, so they won't book you if you are doing 69 in a 60 zone. You've obviously heard that wrong when someone told you. It isn't the case anymore anyway, the margin for error is 1-2km/h now.

        • +5

          @samruss3ll:
          You're looking at it from the radars accuracy perspective whilst I'm talking about speedometer's accuracy

        • -3

          @PoorStudent: Yes, but the Speedometer is accurate, the radar is not. If your car's (working) speedo clocks you at 60km/h you are travelling at 60km/h give or take a m/h. The indiscrepancy you speak of is with the radars on speed cameras.

        • +3

          @samruss3ll:

          I think he is talking about your speedo (which is normally off by about 4%) plus the 2-3% that is taken into consideration when a radar gun is used. So around 6-7% margin I think in total IMO.

          BUt yes his 9kmh reduction seems high

        • +4

          @samruss3ll: Patently not true. Ever compared it to a high end gps unit, or even your phone?

          My gps matches those speed check signs things. Good. Now my Speedo will read 119 while actually travelling 110. Or my Speedo says I'm doing 110, when actually I'm doing 102 according to Einstein's laws of relativity, and my gps. Happily sit at 110 according to the gps past radars, speed cameras, and just about every one else. Wife's car same story. Other work cars same story. Old car I had 10 years ago same story…

          A simple physics lesson will teach you why reducing your tyre pressure will increase your Speedos reported speed. How can that be considered accurate? Infact, Speedos - by law - will tend to over report your speed. Ie doing 109 but Speedo says 115…

        • +8

          Other drivers are smart and know the inaccuracies with car speedometers and actually travels at 90 km/h.

          No, other drivers think they are smart but they are actually idiots who should stick to driving and not worry about allowing for tolerances in indicated speed. Are you saying the driver tailgating is smart? Because if you are, well, I have news for you… If you're doing 90 (indicated or otherwise) and approaching a car in the left hand lane, either overtake or hold back. Tailgating is the domain of morons and anyone that tries to justify it is an idiot.

        • +2

          Apt user name if it's not referring to your personal wealth.

          If you think OP is a wall of text then suggest you look into a career where you get paid to break rocks with bigger rocks.

        • @samruss3ll:

          No the problem is the speedometer isn't accurate. Its usually overstated by at least a few kms on most cars. Can eaily test it. Get any gps and compare it to your speedometer figure. The gps is 100% accurate. Also its your speedometer that is wrong not the rader. That is why you people are not booked when they are doing 63km in a 60km zone, cause they were in actual fact doing 59km.

        • @PoorStudent:

          Why - is it a wall of text too?

        • Yes. Poor student.@PoorStudent:

        • @Themojorising:
          One sentence is considered a wall of text?

        • +3

          @gokhanh: Agreed. I shouldn't need to be worrying about plus/minus tolerances. As long as I'm doing the speed limit and on the left, that should be enough!

        • +1

          @gokhanh: One million upvotes!!

      • -4

        when I first got my license at 18 and I saw a speed camera I'd turn around go back 500 meters and get back into the lane. I'd purposely drive super slow to piss off drivers behind me. then 100 meters from the speed camera I'd move into the left lane and they's roar past me in the right feeling totally pissed off and ….flash….speeding fine.

        yeah.

        • Yeah no.

        • So you certainly put some effort into being a dick then? I'd hate to be anywhere near you when your karma catches up with you.

    • +4

      Entrapment?

      • +8

        Not a thing in Australia, and even in America that wouldn't count as entrapment.

        It's like when cops pose a drug dealers and arrest the buyers, not entrapment.

        • +3

          Perhaps, but maybe you might have a case if the cop is behaving in such a way (is driving dangerously close behind) that intimidates you, and results in your speeding to keep a safe distance.

        • -1

          @adumb:
          Nup, doubt it

        • @Drew22: Well then I guess if it happens to you you won't argue it and just cop it. Fair enough.

        • +5

          @adumb:

          If you had a rear dash cam, you may be able to argue that, but otherwise its your word against theirs, and the word of a police officer is worth more than the word of a civilian.

        • +1

          @lonix: Oh yes I agree. You'd need some sort of proof.

        • -2

          @adumb:

          Don't speed? Pretty simple.

          Are you easily intimidated?

        • +6

          @Drew22:

          Yes, if you speed you break the law, that is simple, but for example a cop tailgating a P-plater (ie an inexperienced driver) for several minutes in order to get that driver to speed so they can issue a speeding fine is OK in your books and totally legal? Not saying it does or doesn't happen, but I would think that practice is questionable.

          Am I easily intimidated? Do you tailgate in an attempt to be intimidating?

        • -6

          @adumb:

          I don't tailgate, so no.

          Is it legal for cops to do it? Yeah, probably. Morally, probably not the best practice.
          But hey, luckily we have a robust court system where you can challenge these things if you feel they are unjust.

        • +6

          Not a thing in Australia, and even in America that wouldn't count as entrapment.

          Not quite right. Back in 2013 NSW police would wait in an older model 4WD on Macquarie pass and pull out in front of a motorcycle approaching from behind. The car would then drive just below the speed limit. The motorcyclist as likely as not would at some point overtake, reaching speeds above the posted limit. Bingo.

          Several riders caught successfully challenged the tactic in court.

          So, AFAIC, there is precedent.

          SOrry I don't have links, but most of motorcycle magazines and blogs covered the matter at the time.

        • +4

          @GuiGuy:

          Yeh technically "Entrapment" might not be a legal term in Australia, but the act of trying to get someone to perform an illegal act they might/would not otherwise do could still apply, which was my point. I just thought it easier to use that word though technically incorrect for Australia.

        • @GuiGuy:

          Hey, good thing we have courts right?

        • @adumb: Technically they should be keeping a 3 second gap or 4 second gap depending on the situation if its raining or at night.

          easiest way is just pull your breaks and let them crash into you, they'd be at fault even if they're police. If you want a good reason to pull your breaks wait until you see something on the road and say you thought it was an animal, they cant complain. And if you got bumper bars then even better because then you won't take any damage.

          It happened to one of my uncles once. He wasn't tailgating but i'm guessing he was relatively close (I wasn't there to see) but then a dog ran past the car in front of him and the car pulled their breaks and he didn't stop in time and hit the car in front. By law he was the one at fault for not keeping his 3 second gap.

        • @adumb: I don't want to provide details but a cop once let me off doing significantly over the limit for this exact reason.

        • -2

          @michaeldinh: and if they have a camera you are stuffed. Brake checking is just as illegal.

          As is stopping for an animal, both will see you with a beg driving charge

    • +3

      I got done like this, Except the other way around. He was in the right lane doing 20km under and I sat on his arse.

      • So you were caught travelling unnecessarily in the right lane, or for going 20km/h under the speed limit?

        • Oh forgot to add, He moved over eventually and I sped off! Whoops.

        • +2

          @dylanando: Wow, ouch! So did you get done for "speeding" off?

        • +2

          @kyttiekat:
          Presumably he was tail gating a cop, and when he sped off he went over the limit.

        • Could be ticketed for "following too closely" if applicable; or speeding, assuming he took off too eagerly after having room to overtake

        • @Drew22: Thanks! Yeah seems so. Eek.

        • @kyttiekat: haha yes, He was good about it. Good way to get us however. Build up rage when hes going so slow so you'd obviously speed off when he lets you pass. Smart really!

        • @dylanando: So why were you in the right lane?

    • Maybe they wanted to pick a fight with you!!!

    • +11

      Tailgating is illegal. I seriously doubt the police force would want any cops to tailgate.

      • lol. Do you think they care more about the law or raising revenue? Times like this, I wish I had a dashcam for front and back of the car.

        • +4

          State police forces do have an ethical standards unit as well as an anti-corruption commission.

        • @inherentchoice: While you might be right and I know not every cop is bad, I have seen a lot of cops and first hand stories where they pressure you to speed up by tailgating and then give you a fine. Not to mention, some of them who are patrolling normally, and when they are about to go through red light, they turn on sirens to get through, and then turn it off again, but funny they only do it if they are ahead of the all the other cars. Then when you see them again on next set of lights with other cars in front of them, they don't do it, and drive normally again.

          Edit: I also remember a few times, some roundabouts near the stations have red lights (i.e. Heatherton Rd and Lightwood Rd corner), where signals are activated by trains. Which means even though it is a roundabout, if the light is red, you have to stop. Even a lot of civilians don't follow this rule strictly. Last time I was there and a cop pulled behind me, the light was red. I didn't drive through because of risking a fine, but the cop just went to next lane and drove through red light without any sirens. I have also seen them turn right where there are signs saying "No right turn". Some of them do break the rules.

        • Buy dash cams right now. ~$100 is a pretty cheap wish.

        • @inherentchoice:

          State police forces do not have their own anti corruption comission. It's usually a 3rd party or the AFP.

        • @charzy: Yes it's not 'their own' anti-corruption commission, but they are accountable to it nonetheless.

          With the advent of dashcams, illegal driving by police officers can now be better reported and investigated, and this should also deter officers from illegal driving in the first place.

        • I agree, I like to think we got a strong and competent police force. I've been driving for 5 years now and have never had a problem with police officers pulling me over.

        • @anonymous01:

          Not to mention, some of them who are patrolling normally, and when they are about to go through red light, they turn on sirens to get through, and then turn it off again, but funny they only do it if they are ahead of the all the other cars

          Definitely seen this happen once!

          Also driven on the M4 in medium-heavy rain during the day.
          I was on cruise control so I knew I was at the speed limit (80km/h), but saw a normal police patrol car (not HWP) speed past us without sirens, I'd estimate 90km/h+

        • +1

          there have been dashcam bargains (yicamera) on this website =)

      • -1

        So is speeding, and the police force do speed in normal situations.
        They do illegal u-turns all the time in normal situations.

        I'm sure many take bribes as well otherwise there wouldn't be any scandals or corruptions in history.

        Just because something is illegal doesn't mean they won't do it.

      • We've had it happen before when my friend was on his green P's in a sports car.

        Undercover cops were giving him shit by tailgaiting, he didn't speed up. Eventually my friend got sick of it and pulled over to let them pass.

        Two blocks later we saw the same undercover car with flashing lights pulling over another vehicle.

      • They do "illegal" (its not, they are exempt from the usual rules) things all the time.
        Unless someone raises a social media stink with a video of them doing it they get away with it.

        They have also been busted driving 20km under the speed limit on popular motorbike/sportscar roads with long double line sections and then busting people for overtaking.
        When video proof was published the officers involved got put in the doghouse for a while and the operation was cancelled. But it comes back a couple of times a year until more evidence is gathered.

    • No it doesn't.

    • -1

      This.

      I've heard stories of them doing this a lot.
      There was this girl who felt pressured to speed, the police pulled her over.

      • Laaame. I'm glad I refuse to be pressured, then!

    • +6

      Exact same thing happened to me on the M1 freeway in Melbourne a few years ago. Eventually the car stopped tailgating me, drove onto the median reserve and one donut later, took off up the other side of the freeway, WTF…….I managed to get the rego and the car was stolen and wanted for factory burgs. So there's a lesson about who you might be dealing with should you engage in any 'road rage'.

      • +1

        Wow, what the heck. Scary. Glad you managed to report them!

        • Yeah I rang 000 (on handsfree) because the car was tailgating extremely close at reasonably high speed and I was worried that car would cause a big prang. Was scary for sure; thank god I held back and didn't get involved in that road rage rubbish. I think about that incident every time another driver is doing the wrong thing because you may just have a psycho or crook behind the wheel.

    • Yeah this has happened to me before as well. Driving on a freeway, car right up your ar$e, you speed up because you feel unsafe or annoyed, then boom, the flashing lights come on. Used to happen all the times in Perth in the '90s, and I noticed it a few years back in Melbourne too

      • Way back in the day I was riding in the back of my sisters boyfriends valiant charger. It was a nice car. Metallic black with just a touch of chrome. We were coming from Wodonga and heading to Albury via the Hume weir.

        In the mirrors a falcon approached at high speed. It was unmarked but had a few antennas on it. It sat behind us, then dropped back and accelerated again. It did this maybe three times.

        My sister tells the driver to ignore him. We all know it's a cop and he doesn't bite.

        We got to the twisties at the bottom of the dam wall and it's right on our bumper. Then we hit the bridge to cross the Murray river (aka the NSW border). It pulls over and does a u turn.

        Mm hmm. Great idea guys.

    • +3

      It's happened to me. I only sped up to get into the left lane and get out of the way of the arsehole behind me, then the unmarked car moved over violently with me and pulled me over down the road. I have almost no respect for police anymore. All they seem to do is book speeders and prosecute minor drug offenders. I reported a hit and run on my car over a year ago and never heard anything even after giving the licence place. They apparently only solve 10% of burglaries here in WA. Yet their focus is deploying sniffer dogs at train stations and ruining peoples lives over possession of cannabis. The system is so broken and they are at the forefront.

      • +2

        Someone should start a thread about dodgy cop behaviour. I've got a few stories. Probably against OzBargain rules or something - cops being pillars of the community and all that.

        • +1

          You make it sound like the majority of cops are corrupt when it's only a minority (just like how only a minority will complain online).

        • @gokhanh: Actually, I think they are all morally questionable for joining the police force. Look at sniffer dogs and strip searches taking place on public streets in Kings Cross. Look at how they support the status quo where mainly the uneducated and the poor end up in jails. Sure they do good too, even heroically on occasion, but joining the police force is a compromise and not the optimal way to do good. Of course, you could say that their personality type means they are not naturally inclined to take an objective political and philosophical look at the job.

        • +2

          @worldwidehappiness: Well said. I often wonder about those police who feel guilty after arresting someone in possession of cannabis and kicking off a process which will impact their career and lives forever. I know most of them would have grown up and known kids at school who've done it and probably done it themselves. No doubt in their private life they know people who do it now, probably telling them 'just don't let me see it' or something like that. They might defend themselves as saying it's not their job to choose which laws to enforce etcetera. I wonder if they'd feel the same way if things like homosexuality and interracial relationships were still illegal and they were locking up people for that. Is the 'just following orders' defense ever really acceptable? I don't think so, and I think you are correct. Simply joining the police force requires you to compromise your morals.

          I harp on about the cannabis laws because it frustrates me to no end here in WA. Before the current liberal government it was decriminalised and the things that people get into very serious trouble for now were (rightly) ignored a few years ago. A political point scoring 'tough on drugs' approach and an overzealous police force mean we give people criminal records for things which would attract a fine at most in other states and is now completely legal across a lot of the US where common sense has finally prevailed. If I was a police officer I honestly don't know how I'd sleep at night being such an arsehole and spreading such misery.

          Ugh sorry for being so off topic, it's just a subject I'm passionate about.

        • +1

          @Talonparty: I think a lot can be said about personality types. Some people are natural followers of authority and laws, e.g. "just following orders". Others are motivated by achievement or status. For example, I remember seeing a sniffer dog catch someone at Kings Cross railway station. The dog's handler was patting the dog and really excited over the catch. That guy was a bulky pretty boy who would have a status/achievement personality type. But on a different occasion a sniffer dog was all over my shoes and legs and stopped me from walking ahead. Felt like the Gestapo. However, the female handler looked genuinely embarrassed. It was such an obvious case of unjustified body search and intrusiveness, and it was for marijuana, which might actually be a good thing for society.

          So we have three personality examples, and there are many more:

          Authoritarian - just following orders.
          Status seeking - morality doesn't even cross the minds of such people.
          High personal morals - the female cop feeling shame.

    • +1

      Nonsense.

  • -1

    keep left unless overtaking.

    • +22

      Always do! But always end up with tailgaters anyway. ><

      • +3

        "I am well within my rights (pun sort of intended) to travel on the right most lane in most roads."

        I'm well within my rights to do a whole heap of crap that that would annoy the hell out of plenty people … but i don't.
        Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it right!!!

      • I don't think a lot of people understand this. I had a jeep tailgate me then overtook me on the left exclaiming I should be on the left. It was a 60 zone.

      • -1

        You're not wrong, just an (profanity).

    • +12

      Did you read the OP's post?

  • +19

    They just like stuffing you around obviously… Apparently that's what they like to do.

    Last time someone tail gated me around midnight, I just slowed down to 30-40km/h at a 90km/h zone. Surprisingly he still kept going behind me for another good 5 minutes or so with high beam on. I literally couldn't see anything anyway so my safe driving speed was 30-40km/h.

    You see, the thing is, if he wants to follow you at 30-40km/h, just let him? You're generally more of the nuisance then he is right?

    • +1

      Good idea, thanks! I think next time I'll do the same, just keep slowing down. If they're that close, then the buffer space is way too small and we should be adjusting our speed anyway to keep it safe. Crazy that he stuck around for 5mins! Must just be a weird version of.. fun? D:

      • +1

        I always do that. I don't brake, I just lift my foot off the pedal and do a slow deceleration until they f#@k off. One time, on a 100 kph freeway, I actually came to a stop. The woman behind me had been texting and was on autopilot.

        Another time I put my hazards on while driving at 100 kph and the 4 middle Eastern guys in the SUV tailgating me went nuts. They pulled alongside and tried to throw empty cans at me, demonstrating their ignorance about throwing aluminium cans into a 100 kph wind.

        I don't know why but tailgaters and d@#%k heads are everywhere. I put it down to 50% of the population being below average intelligence, many of them well below.

      • +1

        Don't get yourself into a road rage situation.

    • -6

      unless the road was FLOODED and there was a thick fog or accident/obstruction ahead, there is NO need to travel at 30-40km/hr in a 90 zone. Its plain unsafe.

      • +8

        bao28 couldn't see because of the tailgater's headlights. Driving fast when you can't see is extremely unsafe, bao28 did the right thing.
        https://youtu.be/5FDSXKhkmlM

      • -1

        Or traffic… or a million other reasons

  • +38

    I'm very guilty of tailgating. I only ever do it when people are below the speed limit. My daily commute to work consists of people doing 50-60 in an 80 zone. They should either speed up or pull over and let everyone else pass.

    • +14

      What do you achieve by it though? Most of the time it just makes people slow down.

      • +22

        It's not always intentional. Most of the time the other driver is not capable of maintaining a steady speed and I'm constantly having to slow down and speed up.

        Intentional tailgating is usually on the highway when someone is in the right lane and not keeping left. The signs say that slow drivers must stay in the left.

        • +7

          youre the perfect driver to brake check….one day youll end up with very nasty accident repair bill for at least 2x cars and youll be 100% in the wrong….enjoy

        • -5

          @franco cozzo: Yup. I'll even hand them over my lovely dashcam footage. thanks for the support <3

          How close counts as tailgating? I don't go as close as possible and I don't spend my entire trip up their arse. It's usually for a few seconds… then I back off. It usually gets the message across.

        • +35

          @Clear: the dashcam footage that shows you failing to keep a safe adequate distance between you & the vehicle in front…? yeh thatll work in your favour…..

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