An eBay Seller "Force-Shipped" My Items

Lbrokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 18:03
Last edited 25/03/2016 - 14:39 by 1 other user

WARNING: this is a very long post

TL;DR by Ikitasa here

Here is a concise summary of the main discussion in this thread by JmanNick

For those veteran eBay users, who know all of the unwritten and unspoken rules of eBay, believing that pickup MUST be paid by cash regardless of what the listing says, or what eBay has made available to the buyers
This legend took his/her time looking into eBay policies, thanks :)

Lesson for newbie eBay buyers:
If you are just following eBay transaction procedure when purchasing an item
You are making mistakes, you are annoying, you have a lot of problems, and you are the worst scum there is
Don't make the same mistakes I did by not reading into the hidden hints ;)

Reminder from El Grande for eBay sellers who are still willing to learn/re-learn

Story starts here

Today I bought three electric winches amounting $897
I really need this item like Monday 28 March, but their express shipping only guarantees delivery on the 29th.
Therefore I chose to pick up the item and paid via PayPal.

(At this time, I went on with my life as per normal, not knowing the ugly situation waiting for me)

…

Minutes later (I was driving) seller sent me a message saying:

13:10 "Sorry, pickups are for cash only. If you paid with Paypal we have to ship, you cannot pick up"

I was like what the heck? (I started going nuts here because there was nothing on the listing that states what the seller claims)

I pulled over and immediately replied to them to cancel the order and get a refund:

13:28 "We need the items to arrive by Monday. All of your shipping options only guarantee shipment next Tuesday. Please cancel our order, thanks."

You know what?

13:49 eBay notification arrived: Hi XXX - Your order has been shipped to YYY.

!@#$%^&*()!!!!!

Seller replied:

14:18 "Sorry, not much we can do now, items were already dispatched"

Yeah right…

I said to them:

14:46 "By the time this item arrived, we won't need it anymore.
I've already told you we want to pick up and won't accept shipment.
And you guys just shipped it anyway without any confirmation.
What a bunch of scammers."

^ Well, this is a very bad lesson, don't learn from me

At this stage, I called eBay for help. All eBay said to me was: contact the seller, only they can process the refund
…right…

I sent the seller another one:

15:06 "I demand a refund!
We never wanted the items to be shipped in the first place.
Why did you guys just ship the item anyway?
Did you guys even ask for a confirmation?
We already told you before you shipped the items that your shipping is taking too long and we won't need them by the time they arrive.
Please respond.
Hello?"

Seller said:

15:54 "Scammers ? We did nothing wrong, quite the opposite
Not only our listing clearly states – cash only for pick up but you didn’t even selected pick-ups at check out. If you would, you cannot pay for them.
All purchases are processed and shipped automatically"

I replied (responding to their every sentence):

16:04 "Scammers ? We did nothing wrong, quite the opposite
- Are you guys serious? Before you shipped the item, I told you guys I want to cancel my order if I can't pick the item up!
- I don't need these winches by the time they arrive because the delivery is taking too long! Which part of this did you guys not understand?
Not only our listing clearly states – cash only for pick up but you didn’t even selected pick-ups at check out. If you would, you cannot pay for them.
- We clearly did select Pickup (see attached photo).
- Where in your listing states "cash only for pickup?" Show me.
- Then instead of putting the item on hold, you just ship them anyway?
- I clearly paid via PayPal and chose Pickup didn't I?
All purchases are processed and shipped automatically
- Automatically? So the items just flew from your warehouse to AusPost? Seriously? Come on man.
Please refund me my money!"

I made this order through work computer, which snapshots every second of my session.
I sent them screenshots of evidence that I chose PayPal and Pickup (which they claim is not possible)

Seems like the seller doesn't understand a thing I said to them?

Final message from seller:

16:37 "Yes, correct only you DID not select local pick up. You selected Paypal
And your items were shipped BEFORE you said you want to cancel.
I think this discussion is over."

Which part of it is correct? OMG, I just want to cry

All I want is just my money back (well it's my employer's)
All I want is just to pickup my item. If I can't pickup my item, I want my money back (well it's my employer's)
I have already opened a PayPal dispute, but I can't escalate it until 31 March.
My client is waiting for me to install these winches on Monday 28 Mar (the winches definitely won't arrive before then)
Which means I have to buy another set of winches that I can pickup from a more reputable seller and do my job.
Which also means the delivered winches won't be of use to me when they arrive.

What do you think?
Is it my fault? Theirs?
Will PayPal side with me when the time comes?
Should I cancel this transaction through my bank instead?
Will this affect my PayPal account reputation?

UPDATE
Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2 Screenshot 3

UPDATE 2
Thanks for everyone's response :)

After one final call to PayPal, eBay, and the bank, my options are:
1. Postpone installation for another day, acknowledge the "goodwill" of the seller, accept the item when it arrives (hopefully)
2. Escalate PayPal dispute, which I can do right now without having to wait 7 days, but PayPal advised me there's a high chance PayPal will side with the seller because eBay Buyer Protection does not cover Pickup (which I wanted so vehemently) even though the seller did ship the item without my confirmation
3. Go to the bank for the dispute - this will take 60-75 days for the transaction to be reviewed and then refunded

Anyone with rational mind would go with option 1…in which I need to prepare myself for my manager's wrath (and maybe client, for breaking the contract)

UPDATE 3 - 24 Mar 10:47
Still in the dark :(
Tracking code still isn't working :(
Not sure if I should get my hopes up and expect even a delivery.
I've bought another set of winches from another seller.
Will return the shipped item if it ever arrives.
Fingers crossed for them to refund my money after I called them scammers X_X

General Discussion

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Comments

  • scrimshaw on 23/03/2016 - 18:10
    +14

    Calm down first and think rationally

    as an ebayer, you cannot force your customers to only pay cash. They can pay in whatever method they choose.

    So that's wrong on their part. The Seller's Conditions cannot Overrride ebay's seller policies. They must accept Paypal if the seller only wants to pay via Paypal, even they have elected to pick it up themselves physically.

    The second thing. You can choose to accept the parcel, but ship it back to the sender and then recoup the cost of shipping via Paypal. go to https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns and then click Activate Now. Note that the maximum value you will recoup is $45 dollars only.

    In this scenario, I would contact Paypal first and see what your options are. Keep all communication between you and the seller as evidence that the seller is not complying with eBay rules — this makes it more likely that Paypal will side with you.

    • ozhunter on 23/03/2016 - 18:23

      The seller did have the option of Paypal.

      With the second thing, the seller doesn't accept returns for change of mind. Paypal does remimburse shipping a certain amount of times but doesn't mean the seller has to accept it?

      • scrimshaw on 23/03/2016 - 18:34

        The seller must accept Paypal, if the customer has chosen that option. It's not the same as offering the option of Paypal and then saying after the fact that customer has paid…. "you know what? We'd really prefer cash…"

        that doesn't roll with eBay! It makes the rule of compulsory Paypal useless, because Paypal exists to cover the butt of the buyer. It's always in the favour of the buyer to use Paypal because in case the item is SNAD or faulty, Paypal steps in and freezes the merchant's money, and gives it back to the buyer.

        • ozhunter on 23/03/2016 - 18:35

          The seller does accept Paypal, that's how he paid.

          To have to accept Paypal then allow pickup? I'm not sure if that is compulsory.

        • scrimshaw on 23/03/2016 - 18:36
          +1

          @ozhunter:

          The seller is taking advantage of a loophole in this case. Basically, saying we accept paypal, but if you want pickup, you may only pay cash. They use the very silly excuse of "we don't have EFTPOS facilities at the pickup center", who needs EFTPOS to accept Paypal payment? You're a web-based business…

          Recall: if you pay cash — no protection for you!

        • ozhunter on 23/03/2016 - 18:37
          +3

          @scrimshaw:

          Sellers don't have to allow pickup. I think it's good that the seller is allowing the item to be picked up, but him saying only cash I guess in a way is avoiding ebay/paypal fees.

        • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:47
          +6

          @scrimshaw:

          Recall: if you pay cash — no protection for you!

          pp and pick up. no seller protection. the seller is gambling $309 on the buyer not opening a inr.

        • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:48

          @ozhunter:

          avoiding ebay/paypal fees.

          the fvf has already been charged. it's the 2.6% pp fee that they don't have to pay.

        • scrimshaw on 23/03/2016 - 18:49
          +3

          @whooah1979:

          It's an uneven playground. Sure, some people lose, some people win, but ebay is a law unto themselves. If you've been had like the OP did, you would do anything within your power and leverage ebay policies to make sure you have your own ass covered. He's got that right to do so.

          If there is a chance that the seller is enforcing cash-on-pickups as a way of evading taxes and or as a way of not having to deal with product returns (SNAD, faulty) then they're not playing fair in the first place anyway.

        • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 19:04

          @scrimshaw:

          If there is a chance that the seller is enforcing cash-on-pickups as a way of evading taxes and or as a way of not having to deal with product returns (SNAD, faulty) then they're not playing fair in the first place anyway.

          the seller still has to provide a tax invoice. with that includes consumer guarantees.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2016 - 21:11

          yes $309 x 3 as well

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 07:04
          +2

          @scrimshaw:

          no, the fairest option (if the buyer really needs the item ASAP) is for the buyer to assume risk even if the item is faulty (they should inspect it when received), and then rely on the goodwill of the seller to fix their problem. its as if you were buying an item from classifieds.

          as it stands, if you pay through PayPal and choose to pickup, its like giving the buyer a 180 day 'give me my money back' button, that instantly gives them the money back and lets them keep the item. this is ridiculous as hell.

          the seller isn't trying to avoid fees, nor are they trying to avoid SNAD disputes for genuine faulty products (they have no problem shipping!!), they are trying to avoid the seller pressing the 'give me $1000 back button' that instantly activates and lets them keep the items. This is a billion-fold less fair than not giving the buyer direct protection for faulty item.

          Anyone arguing otherwise, has no logic, has no compassion, and has never experienced being an eBay seller with any decent amount of activity.

        • SirFlibbled on 24/03/2016 - 14:31
          +1

          @scrimshaw: I do this all the time when I sell on Ebay (not professional just my junk). If you want pick up you must pay cash. If you pay by Paypal the item will be delivered.

          The buyer has the option to pay by paypal.

        • scrimshaw on 24/03/2016 - 18:24
          +5

          @SirFlibbled:

          ebay lacks innovation. The problem with malicious buyers complaining about goods not arriving even when they have picked it up in person could be easily solved using a bit of software

          One method:

          1. Buyer wants an item on ebay, he purchases it, paid with Paypal but wants to pick it up,
          2. He clicks on a "pick up item from Buyer" button during the delivery method screen.
          3. The buyer receives a phone SMS from ebay displaying a random 6 digit code. Or he gets an email with a verification code, along with the address of the seller and the item in question. Let's call this the "PICKUP SLIP". Instructions are that the buyer must produce this unique 6 digit code to the seller during pickup.
          4. The buyer physically visits the seller, and exchanges the the Pick-UP SLIP (code) for the goods.
          5. Once the transaction is complete, the Seller has to input the PICKUP SLIP (CODE) into his eBay account to prove to ebay that the goods have changed hands and the buyer can no longer complain about "GOODS NOT DELIVERED"

          If ebay implements this system, this makes selling on eBay a lot safer…. but ebay is dumb.

        • peter on 26/03/2016 - 10:45

          @scrimshaw: The first rule of eBay is that "…ebay is a law unto themselves…". It is not a level playing field, buyer and seller should both beware.

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 18:26
      +1

      Haha, I can't believe I had someone telling me to calm down and think rationally (normally I'm in your position)
      Anyway, after posting this it seems like I'm okay now.

      Thank you for reading and responding (and shockingly, understand O_O)

      Yeah, activated that too, not sure if it would do any good if the shipping is FREE?
      I'm just kinda disappointed at this kind of behaviour (I had a really high expectation of local eBay sellers)

      Thanks again~

      • scrimshaw on 23/03/2016 - 18:29
        +1

        The cost return shipping back to the seller can be proved with a scanned docket or receipt.

        • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 18:30

          Ohhhh! So that's what that activate means, lol, I just re read the small details again because I thought it would never apply to me. Now it does…Grahhhhhh

  • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:21
    -3

    Payment details
    Payment method Preferred / Accepted
    Credit or debit card through PayPal
    Accepted

    Cash on pick-up
    Accepted

    Money order/Bank cheque
    Accepted

    Personal cheque
    Accepted

    Bank deposit
    Accepted

    You can pick-up from warehouse and pay cash here (no Eftpos):

    did you not read the listing?

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 18:22
      +6

      Well, did they say, to pickup, you must only pay cash?

      Literally 6 times before I made the purchase.

      • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:25
        -2

        Well, did they say, to pickup, you must only pay cash?

        hmm, i'm not sure how to read this.

        Literally 6 times before I made the purchase.

        you did what six times?

        • deanylev on 23/03/2016 - 18:49
          +5

          hmm, i'm not sure how to read this.

          He's asking if they said to pickup you have to pay cash

          Literally 6 times before I made the purchase.

          He read the listing 6 times

      • deanylev on 23/03/2016 - 18:27
        +6

        I saw you're in the right here.

        A) They only saw 'No eftpos' for pickup, nothing about PayPal

        B) Like scrimshaw said, they can't just make up their own rules. They have to accept whatever the buyer wants to pay if those options are listed, be it pickup or shipping.

      • sonic2011 on 23/03/2016 - 21:34
        +2

        don't worry you will win here if you dispute it via paypal. the seller didn't mention you have to pay cash for pickup. the seller only mention you can pay with cash when picking up (its general listing for seller). scrimshaw comment is right. keep your pics and evidence…screenshot their listing as well.

      • xuqi on 24/03/2016 - 19:04
        +3

        The problem for the seller if he/she accepts PayPal and pickup, is that there is not way for him/her to prove you picked up the item to PayPal.

        Many a scammer has paid by PayPal, picked up the item, and then claimed as never having received it. In all such cases PayPal will side with the buyer, and the seller loses their item, and the cash.

        PayPal won;t care if you sign anything saying you picked it up, or mark your name in Blood, leaving your DNA behind. One complaint from the buyer that they didn't receive the item they picked up, and the seller is screwed.

        This is why the seller will always ship items paid for by PP.

        The aforementioned scenario is a common scam, hence the path the seller has taken.

        • JH100 on 24/03/2016 - 19:54

          Isn't a good old fashioned signature acceptable any more?

        • Japius on 24/03/2016 - 21:17
          +2

          @JH100:

          No. PayPal will not give the seller any protection at all if they allow pickup.

        • ajwatts on 27/03/2016 - 16:47
          +2

          Bingo.

          Overnight, I sold a bunch of $0.95 items (Batman toys!) with $2 postage (but being nice, I combine postage for up to 5 items at the same flat fee - I'm so awesome). But the listing clearly states that if you pay via PayPal you MUST purchase delivery confirmation and insurance.

          IIRC, delivery confirmation alone is $2.95 and the insurance is more than that. :P

          This is because way back when, I got scammed MANY times by people paying by PayPal, then saying they never received the item. PayPal would ask me for proof of delivery (=tracking, signature, etc.) and I would say "The buyer chose not to purchase those options." Tough luck for me. A picture of the item packed and addressed was, fairly, not enough - it doesn't mean you actually sent it.

          There was one hilarious instance where someone bought a $115 item from me, that happened, they got their refund… then listed the item for sale on eBay themselves. The item was missing one piece - what are the odds the one they were selling was not mine and ALSO missing this piece? PayPal did not take action. :(

          Later, the same person tried it on again, using a different eBay account. This time, PayPal wore the cost of the refund, for some reason. But when I later listed an identical item, the buyer pointed this out to PayPal, saying I must never have sent it the first time. PayPal then charged me for the refund they had covered. I even sent a photo showing I had seven or eight of the same item… but it mattered not.

          So, yep. You pay PayPal, you also pay to cover my arse.

  • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:23
    +4

    So that's wrong on their part. The Seller's Conditions cannot Overrride ebay's seller policies. They must accept Paypal if the seller only wants to pay via Paypal.

    the seller doesn't have accept paypal for pick ups.

    • deanylev on 23/03/2016 - 18:27

      Not something they're allowed to do. Plus, under shipping/pickup they say 'No eftpos', nothing about PayPal.

      • ozhunter on 23/03/2016 - 18:33
        +1

        They said pay cash.

        • deanylev on 23/03/2016 - 18:50
          +8

          You can pick-up from warehouse and pay cash here

          IMHO, that implies it is an option, but does not rule out PayPal. They should say "You can pick-up from warehouse and pay cash here, but no other payment methods"

      • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 18:41
        +1

        Not something they're allowed to do. Plus, under shipping/pickup they say 'No eftpos', nothing about PayPal.

        the policy is that the seller must accept at least one safe electronic payment method (pp or cc). the policy also states that the seller is then allowed to offer other payment methods. payment (cash) on pick up is one of them. the seller can legally ask the buyer to either pay with pp and have the item shipped or pay with cash on pick up.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 06:50

          the seller can also wire money to the prince of nigeria and hope that he gives them his inheritance

          it takes three clicks for the buyer to get their money back from a paypal + pickup, no input necessary. 100% chance of success. keep the item and laugh your ass off.

          if eBay is forcing you to wire money to Nigeria, it doesn't mean you should do it.

          gonna put a huge wager down now that none of you have ever had any significant ebay activity as sellers. if you were in the same situation (and didn't employ double standards) you'd get your money and item ripped out of your pants faster than you can say PayPal.

  • Bonsaichop on 23/03/2016 - 18:29
    +37

    The reason there's no paypal on pickup is because its a common scam.

    1) Pay by paypal
    2) Pickup item
    3) Claim through paypal you never received it. Paypal protection states that it needs to have an tracking number that can be tracked online. If you don't have a tracking number, as a seller you're out of luck.

    Paypal seller protection does not cover local pickups: https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/paypal-seller-protecti…
    What’s not safeguarded?
    Local pickups or deliveries made in person.

    Also, the 28th is a public holiday (Easter Monday). Most, if not all delivery services will not be operating.

    Their listing did specify delivery was by the 29th, to me it looks like you just went ahead without thinking ahead. Live and learn.

    As a seller with a sizeable store, I would have probably refunded you and not dealt with the hassle. More-so, I no longer accept pickups except for expensive specialty items. If you as a buyer pay by paypal and want to pick up, I refund you. If you pay by paypal and want it shipped to another address, I refund you and tell you to pay with the correct address (another common paypal scam).

      • coolhand on 25/03/2016 - 21:49
        +2

        they can't make PayPal unavailable as a payment option for a selected shipping method the eBay system won't allow them, but they are allowed to have a policy of no PayPal for pick up.
        Did you contact them to make sure the warehouse would be open over the long weekend before you purchased?

        • brokenglish on 25/03/2016 - 21:50
          +1

          No :( That was my problem, my fault for not contacting them first.
          But they shouldn't even have a policy to just ship the item without telling the buyer when the buyer chose paypal and pickup right…

        • coolhand on 25/03/2016 - 22:03
          +1

          @brokenglish: yes that was very unusual behaviour on their behalf. I'm guessing you've learned a lot about ebay trading moving foward though and fingers crossed they accept your return request to avoid hassle, and you don't need to get paypal involved. Just try and be a little more logical and less aggressive in your communication with them

  • Axelstrife on 23/03/2016 - 18:31
    +3

    Good chance paypal will side with you. if you clearly selected pick up and they seller didn't state anywhere no paypal (they didn't i checked) then how could they not when you certainly did not agree to postage for a specific reason.

    • c0balt on 23/03/2016 - 19:46
      +4

      PayPal requires proof of delivery/shipment from an authorised carrier for seller protection.

      https://www.paypal.com/c2/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/s…

      Due to the prevalence of the PayPal then pickup scam over the years, I'm surprised that eBay even allows a pickup with PayPal option.

      • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 06:36

        Yes, its an archaic option that has 'scam me' written all over it. It's existence is a mistake, and it is generally understood by anyone but complete newbies that this option shouldn't be taken.

  • cameldownunder on 23/03/2016 - 18:37
    +1

    "Free local pick-up, Free, Australia, Local Pickup"

    Free local pick-up …. pay with PayPal and pick up. THis part is simple.

    They probably argue that Postage was an extra service you got "For Free"

    Where do you select "Shipment method"

    Do you have email confirmation of order and shipment method as Pick-up.

    I think the shipping is part of what you buy, and since you wanted Pick-up, and they used "sending package" you "Did not get what you ordered".

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 18:46

      They probably argue that Postage was an extra service you got "For Free"

      Didn't think of this, but not what I want :(

      Where do you select "Shipment method"

      I selected it before adding to cart, and double-checked that pickup was selected before clicking Pay Now during checkout.
      Yes, I have email confirmation from eBay saying I have to ask seller where to pick up the item and other evidence.
      Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2 Screenshot 3

      • cameldownunder on 23/03/2016 - 18:58

        "Postage Service: Pick Up" I guess you don't need more then this. You did not want shipping.
        Probably you get refund no problem, even from seller. Without Ebay/Paypal escalation.

        • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 19:00

          I showed these to them too, but their response:

          16:37 "Yes, correct only you DID not select local pick up. You selected Paypal
          And your items were shipped BEFORE you said you want to cancel.
          I think this discussion is over."

          They claimed I did not select pickup and that the items were shipped before I said I wanted to cancel the order.
          Like really?
          3x 37kg of items were given to AusPost within 1 hour? Without my confirmation that I want it shipped?

          13:10 "Sorry, pickups are for cash only. If you paid with Paypal we have to ship, you cannot pick up"
          13:28 "We need the items to arrive by Monday. All of your shipping options only guarantee shipment next Tuesday. Please cancel our order, thanks."
          13:49 eBay notification arrived: Hi XXX - Your order has shipped to YYY.
          14:18 "Sorry, not much we can do now, items were already dispatched"

        • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 19:08
          +2

          @brokenglish:

          3x 37kg of items were given to AusPost within 1 hour? Without my confirmation that I want it shipped?

          37kg is heavier then ap's maximum 32kg limit. this item is being shipped with a courier. they can collect any time of the day. some collect even twice a day.

        • whooah1979 on 23/03/2016 - 19:13

          @brokenglish:

          Listing says AusPost, which means, again, another bollocks(files.ozbargain.com.au)

          ap and hunter express. you should really read the listing.

          edit
          your link https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/122158/38163/delivery.… shows ap because ebay only allows one carrier to be listed for each shipping option.

        • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 19:38

          @whooah1979:

          ebay only allows one carrier to be listed for each shipping option

          I'm glad you know this information, how could I as a buyer would know this information

          Hunter express is just a logo on their listing.
          Going by your logic, since there's also FREE SHIPPING logo there, there shouldn't even be a $220 express shipping by auspost, should there?

          This isn't helping…

  • 2jzzzz on 23/03/2016 - 19:14
    +2

    Happenwd to me, i simply rejected the delivery. Then the courier gave me a receipt showing this.

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 19:35
      +1

      Oh wow, did you get the refund in the end?
      I just got off the phone with PayPal, they said that when the items are returned, the seller has the right to not refund the money (not covered under Buyer Protection).
      Arghhhhh

      • 2jzzzz on 23/03/2016 - 20:03
        +2

        Yep, got the money. I had proof items were not delivered. They weren't returned as such, they were returned to sender.

        Most people should have Paypal take frim a credit card could you do a charge back?

        • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 21:25
          +2

          Yes I can but it would be a nutcase, 60-75 days for my employer's bank (Westpac) to refund the money, I called them just now. I think we will forget about this $897 in 2 months…

          Oh, so if I reject the delivery, it would be counted as item not delivered…Interesting!
          I might just do this if tomomorrow is looking very grim in the office.

          Thanks for sharing! :)

          UPDATE
          Found similar case: https://www.facebook.com/australiapost/posts/101513702678806…
          I think I will just reject the delivery! :)

        • MATTDAMON on 23/03/2016 - 23:44
          -1

          @brokenglish:

          Yes just reject the delivery or mark it as return to sender.

          Oh and BTW reason why its marked for delivery on the 29th is because the 28th is a public holiday.

        • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 23:47

          @Copie: Appreciate it Copie, thanks :)

      • tomsco on 11/04/2016 - 11:23

        Hey OP - any update?

  • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2016 - 21:01
    +3

    because of BUYER scams it is not wise at all to accept paypal as payment for pickup (only cash)

    because buyer comes collects the goods goes home and files a claim they never got the goods and seller loses paypal case

    buyer gets refund through paypal and keeps the goods

    however the rest of what they did stinks they should have just refunded you without shipping the items

    • Hirolol on 24/03/2016 - 07:49
      +2

      That has already been established if you bothered to read any of the comments.

  • Save 50 Cent on 23/03/2016 - 22:04
    +1

    Well, I gotta admit how impressed I am with the seller's quick responses. I usually hear back in 24-48 hrs even when I reply 2 minutes after I get a message which makes the conversation so painful.

  • theclearout on 23/03/2016 - 22:08
    +4

    Block-quote
    My client is waiting for me to install these winches on Monday 29 Mar (the winches definitely won't arrive before then)
    Which means I have to buy another set of winches that I can pickup from a more reputable seller and do my job.
    Which also means the delivered winches won't be of use to me when they arrive.

    Don't worry mate. The next Monday 29 March isn't until 2021….I'm sure they will be here by then.

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 22:10

      Dope find! Although I really wish my typo comes true

      • theclearout on 23/03/2016 - 22:13
        +1

        Sorry mate, long day and couldn't resist.
        I hope it works out for you.

  • big on 23/03/2016 - 22:28
    +2

    Starting a fight and calling names like scammers
    does not really help any side.

    Why you are not going there tomorrow picking up the items
    and then return the unopened packages when they arrive.

    Need some agreement on both sides.

    Still a possibility you get them tomorrow, if sent via courier.
    Another option would be to call the cuorier service to see if you can pick
    up from their warehouse tommorrow ….

    Just ideas…

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 23:00
      +1

      Just like theclearout above, was a long day and couldn't resist :(
      I know, I should have played nice all along…

      That's one of my options as well.
      My worry is that if I pick up and pay cash for another set of 3, they might not want to refund me the previous purchase.
      Looking at the way they responded to me, not sure they can be trusted (same thing goes for me)

      Thanks big, I appreciate your reply :)

      • Ughhh on 24/03/2016 - 03:06
        +3

        Calling sellers scammers (prior to actually scamming you) is probably one of the most hurtful and damaging word. I wouldn't expect them to go the extra mile for your anymore

  • takutox on 23/03/2016 - 22:37
    +18

    I can tell you've never sold on eBay before, or very little.

    You are the epitome of a super annoying entitled buyer. You did not contact the seller before purchasing asking them if pick up was possible. There is normally an unspoken agreement that the buyer should do this - as the seller has 0% protection whatsoever from you just picking up the item and then saying you never got it (you'll be instantly refunded), especially for such an expensive item as this. This seller is in the right, and you are unreasonable for expecting otherwise and making the purchase instantly. I don't care what the damned eBay rulebook says. The seller obviously intended someone who was picking up to pay by cash, and put 'cash on delivery'. The fact that eBay forces the seller to also accept pick up and PayPal is a moot point, this option is extremely stupid and anyone who gets angry at a seller for not honoring this is unreasonable.

    The second thing is that its a huge eBay store. They usually DO have things handled quite quickly and shipped out within an hour, or handled by another person or processed ASAP. Chances are your message is not read if sent within 20 minutes. It is almost unspoken that if someone pays by PayPal they want the item to be shipped. Sure, that business sent the item to you regardless of your desire for it to be shipped, but you also bought the item without messaging the seller first. So you're both in the wrong, but he's a little less since I know with these big eBay stores things are usually forwarded/handled by a separate warehouse team and very quickly.

    Third thing is the item almost always arrives before the 'expected date' on eBay. Nor is the guarantee 'guaranteed' from the first date listed in the range. You act like you've never purchased anything before. Also, if this is your only avenue of obtaining the item and it is a critical item for your client, you have more problems than an eBay seller (get over it and don't make promises you can't keep!). Either you left it too god damned late or you shouldn't be purchasing this from eBay in the first place or accepting the client's demands. Especially from an obvious overseas seller (yes, even though they list as in AU, given their grammar and huge amount of sales their warehouse is usually not in AU, and eBay knows and allows that, but who cares, its 2016).

    Stop being a bloody douche please. Find another avenue and pay more in the mean time, purchase that, then when your item arrives, don't reject, just open dispute and PayPal will tell you to ship the item back. Don't pull any dodgy sh*t, and don't leave neg because you're a douche who doesn't message sellers before you buy. These are the worst scum of them all and make any seller rage out. Inconsiderate buyers are the worst.

    • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2016 - 23:12
      +6

      bit_deals… is that you?

      • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 05:59
        -1

        Nah you can tell by my grammar.

        On the other hand, annoying ass customer who expects 100% seller risk and asks questions after paying through PayPal while completely ignoring item description that says not to pay with PayPal, is that you? (scum)

        • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2016 - 10:28
          +5

          Scum? That is uncalled for.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 10:29
          +1

          @Drew22:

          buyers who do that are, not necessarily you.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2016 - 11:13
          +1

          @takutox:

          On the flip side he specified when he needed it by and specified to not ship it.
          They should have rejected the order, instead of going again the requests of the customer.

          This is a two way street and both parties are entitled to specify the terms of sale, if unsatisfactory either party can pull out. But, they chose to accept the sale.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 11:18
          +1

          @Drew22:

          Only someone very inconsiderate would pay for an item before asking the question of when it was needed. Even if it was a normal pickup item with a different seller you need it ASAP its best to ask when it will be ready to pick up BEFORE committing to the transaction. It's a long easter holiday too FFS.

          Not to mention, sellers do not like cancelling orders as it allows the same buyer to still leave negative feedback. It also becomes a huge hassle when your business gets into the hundreds of thousands sales and is handled by an overseas team (which genuinely is virtually automated - just like a big retail store), not so much if you're just a small seller.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2016 - 11:25
          +4

          @takutox:

          Only someone very inconsiderate would ship an item they know the customer wants to pickup.

        • maverickjohn on 26/03/2016 - 08:22
          +4

          @takutox: i really think you are being too inconsiderate to the OP. He actually didnt do anything wrong. You are blindly using your experiences against him. The poor fellow just put in a request for paypal and for pickup.
          Ebay allowed for this to happen. The seller was not clear on pick up options and did not state that cash was to be paid exclusively on pick up.
          The seller had no right to over ride the pick up order and deliver it without consulting the buyer. At that point communication should have been initiated from the seller unto whether they wish to pursue the order via delivery or whether a cancellation would have been appropriate

        • takutox on 26/03/2016 - 10:29
          -1

          @maverickjohn:

          its the followup attitude that matters - and that attitude is disgusting. its got nothing to do with the action itself. if OP and all the others in this thread didn't act like an entitledbrah (even when educated on 100% seller risk), i wouldn't be bagging him out.

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 23:19
      +10

      FYI I never neg anyone in this forum post.
      I get where you are coming from, but that is not the issue.

      I dont care about the unspoken rule whatsoever.
      I opened eBay, searched and found an item I want, there's a PayPal option (tick), there's pickup option (tick).
      Then I paid a friggin $897.

      What I dont understand from them is that, why would they ship my item without asking me first?
      I chose pickup ffs.
      I dont care, again, for another unspoken rule that picking up item is usually paid by cash.
      I never sell an item on eBay, I know nothing about this.

      eBay let me pay by PayPal and choose pickup item.
      I dont see the problem here, why would I question a procedure eBay gave me?

      They have acknowledged that I chose pickup, because they were able to tell me that if I paid by PayPal I cannot pickup the item.
      Then why the hell would they just ship the item? Without asking me?

      From what I see, the seller is "stealing" my money for not willing to refund my money because I am cancelling their $897 order.

      Inconsiderate (for not asking me if I want the item shipped),
      money-seeking (for not refunding my money after attempts to do so), and
      dodgy (two above combined) is what I would call them.

    • atotheb on 24/03/2016 - 03:31
      +8

      @takutox

      How on earth are buyers supposed to know about this "unspoken agreement" that they should contact the seller before buying?

      The seller has been exceedingly shifty here, from lying about the buyer not selecting local pick-up, to shipping the items against the customer's wishes.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 06:29
          -7

          Oh, and if you want evidence that this buyer had ill intent and knew they were pushing risk on the seller, expecting something to go wrong..

          screenshotted the checkout page before they even paid. who even does that unless they know they are doing something just a bit dodgy? you can always find information on your purchases through eBay history.

          ask a million sellers how comfortable they are with the PayPal and pickup option, and you are bound to see a consensus. its basic logic. who gives a rats ass whether eBay has it implemented as an option or not. eBay is wrong. Any option where either side has 100% risk is wrong. eBay even virtually tells you not to do it because there is no seller protection. its like how gumtree tells you not to pay electronically, but doesn't stop you from doing so.

          scammers would have an absolute ball if sellers accepted this option. luckily most of them are clever and don't.

        • Hirolol on 24/03/2016 - 07:59
          +11

          @takutox:
          i frequently buy off ebay and did not know about this scam.
          You really are making incorrect assumptions right here.

          If you select pickup on an item and they ship it without asking then thats not right.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 08:36

          @Hirolol:

          keyword, 'buy' - you're clueless

          you don't know about this scam because you aren't a bloody seller. the buyer is UNFAIRLY ADVANTAGED by this.

        • Tafe on 24/03/2016 - 15:07
          +6

          I understand seller frustration with the EBay's terms of sale, but you are coming across as a raving lunatic with a chip on his shoulder.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 24/03/2016 - 08:10

      I will neg this seller and open dispute to return the item to seller

      by doing this is to let them know they need to fix their listing not accepting pick up option so if people want to pick up they will always ask.

      • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 08:40
        -7

        OP should neg themself and return the item

        they already note it in the god damned description

        if you want pickup then pay for the damned item when you pick the item up and select 'pay on pickup'

        it makes no difference whether you create the listing before or after a seller wants to pickup, because the option to pay by PayPal is always there. its the buyer that should take the time to ask the seller especially when going contrary to their item description and basic human decency.

        in what fair transaction or world is the buyer given a completely no strings attached, no dispute 180 day 'give my money back instantly as i did not receive my item' option?

        • SnoozeAndLose on 24/03/2016 - 08:57
          +1

          I think it is the time for your to quit selling on ebay. ebay is unfair,however if it is not letting you earn money from it you wont be selling till now, if you still selling on ebay you need to accept ebay's policy.

        • tikei on 24/03/2016 - 13:52
          +1

          Selling on eBay, you need to play by eBay's rules which means needing to accept PayPal as a payment option.
          I sell on eBay and I always list in the description that if they want cash on pickup, contact me first and I will give them a discount in that case as an incentive. If they choose to pay via PayPal then no discount.
          It's only reasonable that each party wants to reduce their own risk, like how you as a seller wants to reduce selling risks. In that case you'll have to be willing to offer something in order to get the risk reduced, not just merely blaming the buyers. EBay is skewed, yes, but we are participants in it so we need to follow the rules. We need to direct the complaints at the system, not at the participants.

    • ninetyNineCents on 24/03/2016 - 10:37

      Couldn't the seller ask the user to take a photo of their license etc as proof and still take the PayPal payment ?

  • Chroma on 23/03/2016 - 22:43
    +5

    "Sorry, pickups are for cash only. If you paid with Paypal we have to ship, you cannot pick up"

    1) Blame PayPal, not the seller. I've been stung by this before. PayPal doesn't offer any kind of buyer OR seller protection for pickups. If anything it's to your advantage that you can't pick it up when paying by Paypal if you want to have any avenue of recourse if there are faults, returns, whatever the issues may be.

    2) I find your post very disappointing. The way you phrase it had me hoping for a seller delivering things with Jedi powers or dropped off by Stormtroopers. "Force delivered".

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 23:23
      +1

      2) I find your post very disappointing. The way you phrase it had me hoping for a seller delivering things with Jedi powers or dropped off by Stormtroopers. "Force delivered".

      I never wanted it delivered :(
      I know I want to get it fast which is very unreasonable buying something off eBay.
      Therefore, I just want to pick it up. I am the one willing to travel 70 km just to get and pick up this item, even after paying them $897 which includes free shipping (that I do not want).

      • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 06:31
        -2

        lmfao you're the one benefiting the most from this purchase as it is a required item for your client that appears to be hard to find, stop acting like you are losing out on this deal. especially if you were to pay through PayPal and give the seller 100% risk.

        if you wanted to pick up the item SELECT PAY ON PICKUP.

        • SnoozeAndLose on 24/03/2016 - 09:00

          why he need to select PAY ON PICKUP?

          it is just an option,people could select whatever option they like to pay.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 09:01
          +1

          @LoveBargain15:

          because any buyers who expect seller to take 100% risk are ignorant and inconsiderate

          the system already favors buyers, last thing seller needs is an instant $1000 return and keep item for free button

          this was already noted in the item description, but buyer wants to be a douche for not being able to read

        • SnoozeAndLose on 24/03/2016 - 09:03

          @takutox:

          You need to educate ebay not Ozbargainer.

          I will be more than happy for you to escalate this to ebay which will be beneficial with all the sellers.

          Also seller description can not over write ebay rules, that is how you sell on ebay.

        • takutox on 24/03/2016 - 09:31

          @LoveBargain15:

          no its very clear that OzBargainers are the ones that need to be educated

          take a look at the comments from some of the sellers, then from the clueless buyers with no empathy

        • SnoozeAndLose on 24/03/2016 - 09:42

          @takutox:

          Even some OzBargainers are being educated by you, buyer for whole ebay network will not heard you from here.

          So just save yourself and move on.

          And you are one of the buyer as well which are being protected by the ebay buyer protection https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/193521

  • r3volt on 23/03/2016 - 23:27

    I feel bad for the seller here.

    • brokenglish on 23/03/2016 - 23:29

      Hahaha, ikr, I would go crazy too if I have a buyer like me.

  • centrelink on 24/03/2016 - 00:13

    Well this is what you do, its going to be annoying for the seller but once you received the item, get it returned. If you prefer to make it easier for him return to them personally. But yes, the seller was only looking up to themselves and I think don't eBay allows you to set the option for Pick up Cash only. Because if you do PayPal and allow pick-up, it is so easy to just open a item not receive case and win because the seller did not have provide tracking (which they will need to win the case, if you don't its automatic win for buyer).

    So I would apologise to the seller for not thinking straight be being a bit selfish and see if he will accept a return. If he doesn't, open a return case anyways.

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