$500 fine for littering even though I didn't litter

rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 17:06

Hi all,

Thanks for you guys who decide to read through all of this..

Have just received a $500 fine in the mail from the council for littering. Was news to me as I wasn't aware of any littering I had done. According to the fine there were some bags of rubbish left across the road from my house sitting in a pile of verge collection rubbish that the council had themselves placed there.
The fine stated that the bags were found on a Tuesday afternoon and inside the bags was something with my wife's name on it and an aerosol can.
Now my normal bin day is a Friday and every other day of the week the bins are inside my garage. I thought back to the previous week and I remember placing the bins out late Thursday night and then leaving Friday morning around 8:15 to take the kids to school. I noticed the bin laying on my verge, not unusual from our rubbish collectors, and empty. I just assumed that the rubbish truck had already been but now it leads me to believe that someone had either gone through my bins looking for something and dumped them or thought it would be a funny idea to chuck my rubbish in a pile of other rubbish? Either way I've got no idea of what was trying to be achieved.

It unfortunately isn't my first run in with the council about littering, about a year or 2 ago they had found a bunch of items dropped in the middle of a construction site and a school letter with my sons name on it which I couldn't explain.

Nobody from the council came over to speak to me about it, just had the fine in the mail.

I rang them today and spoke to the ranger who fined me and she was adamant that we did it and adamant that it was us last time too refusing to hear me out. The circumstances that it has all happened doesn't seem to work well in my favor at all, but surely they could take into consideration what person would dump rubbish across the road from where they live seeing their collection day had just passed and was only another few days until their next.

I think I have a pretty good relationship with my neighbors, never had any issues with them. The only things in the street we have had is solar lights go missing, our letterbox being knocked over, some mail going missing and kids down the street doing knocks and runs or trying to sell us rocks for a supposed charity. So I'm pretty sure they couldn't have done it.

The only options I have are to touch my toes and pay the thing or appeal it in a court.

Has anyone else had anything like this happen to them at all, how can I fight this?

Cheers

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Davo1111 on 04/03/2016 - 17:34

    Nobody from the council came over to speak to me about it, just had the fine in the mail.

    What did you do about this fine?

    The fine stated that the bags were found on a Tuesday afternoon and inside the bags was something with my wife's name on it and an aerosol can

    Do you have aerosol cans?

    How old are your kids?

    • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 17:39

      I rang them today to talk about it but the ranger didn't want to hear about it. Very dismissive and was sure I was guilty.

      From the fine the can was an empty fly spray.

      I've got a 4 and 7 year old.

      • Davo1111 on 04/03/2016 - 17:44

        i meant the first issue, 2 years ago. Did you get a fine?

        From the fine the can was an empty fly spray.

        Do you own/use that type of spray?

        • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 17:54

          No fine from the first issue, just some hounding from funnily enough, the same person who gave us a fine for this. That is why she's so adamant that we are guilty.

          I haven't seen what spray it was as they haven't shown us any pictures or evidence of it. But if it was our rubbish bags there then I'm guessing it would be.

        • captobvious on 06/03/2016 - 13:15
          +41

          Find out the rangers name. Find out her address. (t wouldn't be hard, she is probably a JP)
          Print and envelope put it in a rubbish bag and dump it at the front
          take a picture

          Next fine she will be fining herself according to her rules.

        • rickmagnum on 06/03/2016 - 18:57
          +12

          @captobvious: I'd be lying if I said this hasn't crossed my mind haha

      • SteveOh on 07/03/2016 - 10:47

        Wow. I contact her again in writing via registered post summarising your conversation with her and asking her if she has anything to say. If you do this not only will you be documenting the lack of procedural fairness and natural justice you've received but you'll be demonstrating that you are a better investigator than she is and giving her more procedural fairness than you received. You can then add that to your complaint to the ombudsman, local MP and commission against council corruption, local newspaper (if such things still exist) and anywhere else you can think of!

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/03/2016 - 12:35
          +3

          "the lack of procedural fairness and natural justice"

          Is that you James Hird?

    • SteveOh on 07/03/2016 - 10:41
      +6

      'Nobody from council came over to speak to me…'

      Typical Council. Zero procedural fairness. Read the fine print if there is any and contest the fine. In my experience council workers are so lazy that they'll fold as soon as you contest it.

      But read the provision of the code they claim you've breached. Is it strict liability? What do they have to prove? Be sure to ask them in writing (and keep a copy) for the evidence that they have to prove each element. Chances are they haven't preserved the evidence or kept a proper chain of custody. Also ask them in writing why they failed to investigate anyone else (see below on this point)

      At the hearing, if it gets that far, you should be sure to ask them to produce the evidence and object to any testimony they try to provide if/when they start making claims about finding your wife's name on something and then can't produce it or document the chain of custody.

      You might also point out that it would be pretty illogical (both to them, to your MP, to the Police in charge of investigating Council corruption and to the Magistrate) of you to neatly bag up your rubbish and then place it across the street from your house! If you were going to do some illegal dumping surely you'd at least remove identifying info and then dump it in a park or abandoned lot away from your residence etc. It's pretty obvious that the council is blaming the victim. You should complain to your state MP and the Police that the council is corrupt and failed to properly investigate the offence i.e. they should have investigated the pranksters or vandals who tampered with your bin, stole your rubbish and then dumped it.

      • darkchoc on 07/03/2016 - 16:18
        +1

        This.

        Contest in the way that Steveoh suggests. Copy/paste/tailor the note above. Send via email and post.

        Ask for all evidence to be provided to you so you can contest.

        Ask for "state MP, Police, council, ombudsman" details to escalate the failed and unfair investigation of the offence i.e. they should have investigated the pranksters or vandals who tampered with your bin, stole your rubbish and then dumped it.

        Ask for council to provide all legal avenues that are available to you to contest.

        From my experience, they will either back down or fail to provide you with what you have asked for. Magistrate will be less forgiving to the council for not providing you with evidence to contest.

        Good luck.

        • darkchoc on 07/03/2016 - 16:19
          +2

          And don't waste your precious time phoning council. Phone calls are easily dismissed and forgotten.

          Remember to cc your councillor and elected official. Always go to the top!

  • timmeh15 on 04/03/2016 - 17:42
    -3

    Call the bikies?

  • altomic on 04/03/2016 - 17:45
    +77

    send the fine back to the council with an account for $600 for littering your letterbox.

    give them payment terms of 2 weeks and then an additional $300 "administrative" fee will be levied. after 4 weeks the fine will be forwarded to a debt collection agency.

  • oscargamer on 04/03/2016 - 17:52
    +23

    contest the ticket

    wait for the paperwork

    read the paperwork (make assessment of strength of their case)

    go to court and (depending on assessment above)…
    a) say it wasn't you
    b) say you're really sorry and it won't happen again - i GUARANTEE you, that you will get a smaller fine at court than the ticket

    • RocketSwitch on 07/03/2016 - 15:17

      If B, won't OP have to pay court fees?

      • oscargamer on 07/03/2016 - 15:22
        +2

        $40 costs and half the ticket cost… His decision

  • stevensx on 04/03/2016 - 17:54
    +4

    You live in a dodgy area, don't you?

    • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 17:56
      +6

      Lol yes and no..

      • stevensx on 04/03/2016 - 17:57
        +6

        Haha glad you someone can take a joke on this forum. Hope it all gets resolved mate, bloody ridiculous that the evidence is purely circumstantial and they can still pin you for it.

        • Davo1111 on 04/03/2016 - 18:04
          +3

          I dunno, occams razor.

          "Someone went into OPs bin, took some paper out with their name on it, put it in a bag, then illegally dumped it on the side of the road"

          VS

          "OP illegally dumped"

        • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 18:08

          No Davo, they took bags of rubbish out, not a piece of paper.

        • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 19:37
          +2

          I know right, it's a crazy world we live in.

        • Davo1111 on 05/03/2016 - 05:29
          +9

          @rickmagnum: why are you putting paper in your rubbish bin!!!!!!

        • overlord on 06/03/2016 - 12:25

          @Davo1111: why not? I don't have a paper shredder so papers with my name, address, personal information are always into rubish bin. Putting these into a recycle bin is a identity theft risk.

        • Love a bargain on 06/03/2016 - 12:29
          +11

          @overlord: You don't need a shredder. You can rip, cut or even burn the parts that contain your personal information.

        • Davo1111 on 06/03/2016 - 14:04
          +4

          @overlord: So instead of mixing it up with other similar products (which is all destroyed quickly), you isolate it in bags of different materials (rubbish) to sit in landfill and slowly degrade over time?

          not sure about that logic

        • overlord on 06/03/2016 - 14:17

          @Davo1111: afaik stuffs in recycle bin are sorted by human at depot. Rubish is pressed and packed when it's collected by garbage truck.

        • Davo1111 on 06/03/2016 - 14:26
          +2

          @overlord:

          https://youtu.be/2c8YxMb0tlk?t=69

          i think you should watch the video. I'd rather my sensitive information being mixed in with millions of other pieces and then shredded than having it compresed.

        • overlord on 06/03/2016 - 14:35

          @Davo1111: thanks for the video but you should also read this
          why-shred-and-destroy
          The recycling proccess is nice but there's chance it's done in … China.

        • Davo1111 on 06/03/2016 - 14:48
          +2

          Clutching at strings to suggest bails of paper are inspected by the chinese for sensitive information.

          Anyway, you'd probably find your recycling goes to Millicent, South Australia

        • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2016 - 22:18

          @rickmagnum: Pretty sure if you left it in the bins on your kerbside, that the contents inside the bins is council property (just like hard rubbish is council property once it's left out for them to collect). If someone has opened your bin to remove rubbish then someone else has tampered with council property. Shouldn't they fingerprint the bags?

  • cnmarine on 04/03/2016 - 18:20
    +5

    Are you saying someone took bags of rubbish from your bin and chucked it into another pile of rubbish that's across the road?
    You should lock your doors at night, there's a crazy person on to you, probably the council ranger lol

    • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 18:34

      That's what's spinning me out, how and why did it end up there?

      • subywagon on 05/03/2016 - 02:13
        +14

        Is it possible that they fell out, were knocked out perhaps when the garbo was picking them up and someone has come along placed it with the other pile of garbage trying to do a good deed?

  • boonanza on 04/03/2016 - 18:36
    +11

    Instead of bagging the OP how about helping. There are scumbags everywhere and unfortunately this is what happens in this day and age. I believe them when they say that they didn't do it. If you are you to chuck rubbish in the street you wouldn't do it in your street would you. Fight the fine and tell the ranger to go (profanity) himself.

    • rickmagnum on 04/03/2016 - 19:28
      +4

      Thanks for the support boonanza, it's easy to call bs, even I wouldn't believe it if I read it, the circumstances are nuts.
      I plan to appeal it, I'm just hoping that the judge thinks it's as crazy as I think it is.

  • Cave Fire on 04/03/2016 - 21:26
    +4

    Try going to the council's website and seeing if they have a dispute process or way to contact someone in a higher position than the ranger. If the ranger cancelled your fine, it would also imply that they were in the wrong. At the end of the day, they don't have any evidence that you placed the rubbish on the verge.

  • GOFYS on 04/03/2016 - 22:06
    +19

    Councils are a complete waste of time whose only purpose is to make enough money to support their ridiculous wages.
    Either someone dobbed, or they came snooping in your area.
    Tell them you are contesting the fine, and will be demanding all relevant documents, who reported it, who found it, a complete log of council visits to your street, statements from all council rangers ( or whatever bullshit names they give themselves) about their whereabouts and reasons. Tell them you regard it as a breach of privacy, and they had no right to make accusations without prior investigation, or acknowledgement by the rubbish collectors that they may have been at fault, etc, etc.They will all shit themselves, and either spend another fortune getting legal advice or dropping it.
    Whatever, they will avoid any responsibility, so keep prodding until they get real scared.

    • DarwinBoy on 07/03/2016 - 11:40

      I wouldn't go that far, councils spend the bulk of their revenue on rubbish collection, a little left over goes towards parks, libraries and other community infrastructure. Most road creation/repairs funds come from the government. Their regulatory section is generally quiet small and fines do make an impact on budget considerations but hardly what council requires to run itself(at least thats what its like in Darwin).
      I imagine you can request any information under a FOI but you are not going to get the the name of anyone apart from the Ranger under privacy laws.
      I would be disputing it through whatever their internal dispute process is, then move onto the alderman/mayor factor before involving the ombudsman who look into flawed processes of (local)government agencies.
      If it ends up in court i believe it is up for them to prove your guilt, i would look at the offence in the bylaws and see what you are exactly up against.

      • gtech on 08/03/2016 - 14:53

        Sorry to dispel your myth DarwinBoy but i can assure that the City of Perth collects approvimately 27 million in parking fines!!
        If you dont belive me you can review the financial documents for the council.
        Now you cannot tell me that 27 million does not impact the budget !

        • DarwinBoy on 08/03/2016 - 15:54

          Quick Google shows Darwin only takes in about 2 million. Wonder how that equates ratio wise in comparison? We had a story in the paper a few weeks back saying they were 10000 tickets behind expected numbers so that's almost $500 000. Apparently they budget based upon the previous years figures but noone seemed concerned about the loss. Guess it's community groups missing out rather then staff and services.

  • noz on 04/03/2016 - 22:08
    +9

    Seems strange that the ranger won't even consider your possible innocence. Makes you wonder, maybe if the ranger doesn't "find" enough of these supposed litterings, they may be out of a job.

  • burningrage on 04/03/2016 - 22:35

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if the booker is the same ranger and she is very adamant about it rather than considering the circumstances, then wouldn't that be prejudice?

    • Gershom on 05/03/2016 - 12:22
      +1

      Prejudice against what? Magnums?

      • burningrage on 05/03/2016 - 22:10

        "I rang them today and spoke to the ranger who fined me and she was adamant that we did it and adamant that it was us last time too refusing to hear me out. The circumstances that it has all happened doesn't seem to work well in my favor at all, but surely they could take into consideration what person would dump rubbish across the road from where they live seeing their collection day had just passed and was only another few days until their next."

        and this

        "It unfortunately isn't my first run in with the council about littering, about a year or 2 ago they had found a bunch of items dropped in the middle of a construction site and a school letter with my sons name on it which I couldn't explain"

        made me think the ranger had her eyes set on you from the first incident and that, in my opinion, would be prejudicial in a sense that "aha it must be them so I should book him" possibly without even thinking for one second given the circumstances may appear to be strange

        coupled with this

        "I rang them today to talk about it but the ranger didn't want to hear about it. Very dismissive and was sure I was guilty."

        So that's why I think the whole process appears to be prejudicial. The ranger may have an agenda set on OP.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2016 - 09:46

          They couldn't prove the original crime…

          That pile of rubbish across the road from your house that the council 'placed' there … was a honey pot

    • Davo1111 on 06/03/2016 - 11:40
      +2

      where there's smoke, there's fire.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2016 - 22:03
        +1

        where there's fire, there's heat.

        • Ploix on 07/03/2016 - 14:38
          +6

          Where there's heat, my armpits sweat

  • fickre on 04/03/2016 - 23:08

    Call them to provide evidence that it was you who did it. Beforehand, you should also prepare that you are not guilty. Hope that helps.

  • kima on 05/03/2016 - 07:42
    +5

    my friend was sent a fine in the mail for her dog pooping on the sidewalk and leaving it there. she doesn't even own a dog. council are ridiculous and i consider this behavior harassment. With this case I would personally would take it to court but you have to decide if its worth it to you.

    if you got a fine for this before, you would have to be very stupid to put anything with your name in it again. They have no proof it was you and the public has full access to your letterbox and bin. Your neighbor might have just picked the paper off the road after the garbage truck spilled it.

    That being said you claiming you know nothing about how your child's school letter is in the dumped rubbish at a construction site and rubbish with your wife's name on it is in bags opposite your house sounds suspicious i wouldn't believe you either. Regardless I don't think its worth a $500 fine and I also think the council should just get over it, lucky it was left neat and ready for collection and not dumped all over the road

    • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2016 - 12:55
      +4

      Heh getting a ticket for a dog you don't own… that is just pure stupid, like the parking ticket I got for parking on my own driveway. Had to pay it in the end too. Bumper to garage door but apparently 10cm of the car being over the grass (as the driveway was too short) counts as illegal parking in Brisbane.

      • tragic on 07/03/2016 - 11:19

        I got an $80 fine for parking in my driveway too. Unfortunately my wife paid it without my knowledge before I could contest it

      • JimmyF on 08/03/2016 - 13:45

        whilst its crap, I'm guessing your car overhangs 10cm onto the footpath area which is the issue.

        Time to downsize to a compact?

        • lousy on 08/03/2016 - 20:00

          I also got a fine for parking on my driveway. Guess this is more common than I thought

        • JimmyF on 08/03/2016 - 22:18

          @lousy: Once again, had you been 'over hanging' and covering the footpath? If so, then yep you'll be fined!

  • [Deactivated] on 05/03/2016 - 08:29
    +4

    They can prove that one piece of rubbish belongs to your family. They can't prove any of the other rubbish is yours. Paper is light and gets blown by the wind. It's not surprising that it would end up on the other side of the street

  • A Driver on 05/03/2016 - 09:26
    +12

    I always use my recycle bin for recyclables like paper/letters but I think after reading your story (and for security) I really should invest in a paper shredder… sorry for your predicament but thanks for the insight

    • smpantsonfire on 07/03/2016 - 00:04

      Or just get everything by email and save paper, time, money and it's far more convenient.

    • callum9999 on 07/03/2016 - 05:52
      +1

      I just rip the sensitive information off the paper (I don't have paper bank statements so it's generally just the address and maybe an account number) and either "manually shred" the sensitive part or put it in a pile to burn later.

  • Gershom on 05/03/2016 - 12:19
    +4

    I recommend that you listen to a recording of Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie. It deals with this exact circumstance.
    http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/arlo+guthrie/alices+restaurant_…

    • kima on 05/03/2016 - 22:53

      thanks for this, i looked up the video on youtube and I loved it.

      • Gershom on 06/03/2016 - 17:32
        +1

        I can not tell a lie, it was me that put that envelope under that half ton of garbage.

        Gotta love it!

    • macrocephalic on 08/03/2016 - 11:54

      I was thinking the same thing. This is all an elaborate draft dodge!

  • shroomish on 05/03/2016 - 13:19
    +8

    heres a tact - if you cant resolve the issue with the council then advise them you are making a complaint to the ombudsman and are prepared to take it to court, especially if you really plan on doing this.

    THis is a pain in the arse on the part of the council. they have to respond within a certain amount of time and taking it further means that they have to sink money and time into the effort.

    • Serapis on 06/03/2016 - 02:09
      +1

      Agreed, this is at best circumstantial

  • miles3719 on 05/03/2016 - 14:43
    +5

    You're just going to have to contest it mate, let's face it, it looks cut and dry from their perspective but they are council, you don't expect them to take anything at face value.. Just explain your version of events and your hypothesis as to how it got there. Ultimately can they show beyond a reasonable doubt that you did it given the ambiguity of your bin being over and empty on the Friday morning. Could it have escaped when the bin was being emptied and a good samaratin put it on the other side of the road thinking the truck may come back to do the other side? Long shot but anyone of your neighbours got CCTV outside their houses?

    Our council (Cardinia in Melbourne) sent us a letter saying to stop putting our bins onto the roadway.. I took photos showing Before and after the garbo had been clearly showing the truck was doing it along with an invoice for "administrative and photographical services @ my hourly rate of $180" and heard nothing back….

    • nautic on 06/03/2016 - 14:21

      did you take a photo at the exact time the garbage truck placed your bin to the ground.

  • rjstev on 05/03/2016 - 17:56
    +3

    Complain to your local Councillor that's what they're there and and usually council staff will back down from them.

  • geoffellis on 06/03/2016 - 01:29
    +1

    One piece of paper? Thats it? Did they say what the mail was for/where it was from?

    I don't know about you - but when I get someones mail and I don't recognize the name. I just bin it. Suggest maybe a neighbour could have done the same?

  • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2016 - 07:34
    +1

    Contact your local MP and take it to court if it still isn't dropped. Check the actual charge on the ticket and see what evidence they need to actually prove for that offense

  • chumlee on 06/03/2016 - 08:01
    +8

    Is your real name Steven Avery?

  • John Dough on 06/03/2016 - 09:28
    +9

    Hi there Magnum PI,

    I'd like to add my 2c. I have had my good friend and neighbor tell me a story that may be relevant to yours.
    He always has people putting rubbish in his bin, overflowing it, and once received a sticker on the recycle bin saying he had non recyclables in there(which he didn't do.

    Aside from this problem, people have squashed the rubbish bin down so tight it didn't fully empty! He even pulled a bag apart once, found letters in there from a few doors up and delivered the bag back on the persons doorstep (he is a little crazy!)

    I told him I always put the bin out in the morning, not the night before to stop people doing that. Side catch is sometimes you might miss the truck!

    Anyway, I reakon if you are truly innocent of dumping the rubbish, someone has probably taken your rubbish out of your bin, dumped it and put their own in there.

    I'd fight it, send a letter saying you don't dump rubbish and you believe someone else did. Say you have taken steps to protect your bin like I have stated above or say you now lock it up behind a gate until the morning of bin day. $500 for something you didn't do is ludicrous.

    Another tip is that every ( I mean every) item with my name or address is shredded securely at my work, never placed in a bin. Call me paranoid but it's a good measure to help stop Identity theft IMO.

    Good Luck!

    Cheers.

    • troy1976 on 06/03/2016 - 13:39
      +3

      Upvoted.

      I live in a CBD so the density of bins on bin night (especially if it's recycle fortnight) is unbelievable… there is literally not enough room along the footpath the whole way down the street for everyone's bins.

      Regularly I put my bins out and as I leave in the morning for work (usually just before collection) my bins will be overflowing with stuff other people have put in them overnight. Sometimes it's the wrong thing (in the recycle bin), sometimes it's loose rubbish in the normal bin (unbagged and if it's windy it can be blowing stuff out) and sometimes people put rubbish in my bin after collection - so I get a half full bin for the next week with someone else's garbage in it.

      So far I haven't had any hassle from the council - hopefully they recognise in this kind of density you simply can't control other people putting stuff in your bins (or taking it out, for that matter). Most recycle nights I will hear between one to three people going through looking for 10c recyclables and they don't always put stuff back in properly.

      So yeah… moral of the story. Get almost everything sent to you electronically and shred anything with your name and address before binning and put bins out in the morning. Both very annoying of course for a variety of reasons but sadly you have to manage other people's bad behaviour these days in addition to your own probably extremely busy life.

      • kima on 07/03/2016 - 09:15

        i had a complaint about the garbage man not collecting my rubbish once, during that conversation the manager said it doesn't matter if someone pushes your bin over and things go everywhere once it is on the kerb it is their responsibility to collect

    • Ploix on 07/03/2016 - 14:42

      What do you do with the shredded items?

  • r3volt on 06/03/2016 - 09:29

    Where do you live OP? We have an old guy in our area who goes through everyone's bins looking for cans. Something similar could be the answer to what happened.

    • rickmagnum on 06/03/2016 - 18:51

      I live in Seville Grove, WA. Haven't noticed anyone around, though I mean at night who really knows.

      • GameChanger on 06/03/2016 - 19:04

        lol the crib part south of the river.

        Council must have serial amounts of people dumping illegally can some what understand their stance.

  • movieman on 06/03/2016 - 10:36

    Hi OP.

    For future reference, may I suggest either shredding or burning (if you have a wood heater) all future documents with your personal details.

    That way they cannot find their way into someone else's garbage pile.

  • glengood on 06/03/2016 - 11:23
    +8

    "Making A Litterer" I see a Netflix hit series in the making here

  • girlshaped on 06/03/2016 - 11:33
    +3

    Lock up your letterbox and destroy any mail that has your personal information on it that you don't want to keep. It may seem paranoid and unnecessary, but there are a lot of shitty people wandering around. I read in our local paper about a local guy that had his mail taken from his recycling bin and they used the information to open a credit card in his name, running up huge bills. Obviously not something that could or would happen often but you never know. https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/other-scams/identity-fra…

    As for where you're at now, I think everyone has already covered it pretty well. If you're got the time and resources you should challenge it. Yes, it seems like you did it but paying $500 because of that is complete bs.

  • razorack999 on 06/03/2016 - 11:58
    +2

    they have to prove their case. The MERE FACT that you attend the mag court to defend this will lend a lot of weight in the magistrates mind. Just say it wasnt you- they cant prove otherwise.

    • chumlee on 06/03/2016 - 19:10
      +1

      This may be an absolute liability offense so OP needs to prove innocence

      • OzJD on 06/03/2016 - 23:09
        +1

        There's no reverse onus on littering. The council needs to prove that he did the crime. His name on a piece of paper is surely not enough evidence.

        • chumlee on 07/03/2016 - 08:20

          Google search shows littering is a strict liability offense so onus on OP

        • [Deactivated] on 07/03/2016 - 17:17

          @chumlee: It depends on the wording of the offense. I don't even know which council.

          If I pick a local council in VIC this is their wording:
          "Placing or leaving rubbish, litter, abandoned property or other waste or
          pollutants on any Council Land, Road or Public Reserve except in
          receptacles provided or in accordance with Council’s rubbish collection
          procedures."

          So if it was this council, they would need to prove that he placed or left it there. It's not an offense (for this council) to have items you own or have your name on it become litter.

        • chumlee on 07/03/2016 - 18:28

          I understand what your saying but the offense itself is a strict liability offense so council doesn't need to prove their case. It's not an innocent until proven guilty charge. It applies across all of Victoria and probably all sates have similar legislation in place making this a strict liability

        • razorack999 on 12/03/2016 - 07:36

          @chumlee:

          Maybe. but if he takes it to court, are you saying he has no chance of a reversal? I believe that a magistrate will ear the merits of the case and make a decision

  • Bonsaichop on 06/03/2016 - 12:31
    +1

    Easy fix for the future, get a shredder and shred anything with your name on it.

    Had a similar issue, now we shred all letters that are being thrown out. Get a cross-cut shredder just incase someone is having a particularly slow day!

    • troy1976 on 06/03/2016 - 13:44
      +2

      Yes, it's worth remembering that the sort of person who is prepared to go through your rubbish looking for identifying material probably has more than enough spare time, inclination and possibly obsessiveness to sit there putting cut up credit cards and quickly shredded or ripped bills/paperwork together.

      • SaberX on 06/03/2016 - 19:44

        I don't know much about 'privacy' but what will someone really do with shredded or even where you rip names/addresses out? Clearly they know your address (from your bin) so it is just your name you should be destroying? With share statements i rip out pieces of the HIN number, and usually par of my name. THat way the letter gets thrown and the little torn out bits (by hand) I throw in a seperate bag/bin so they're physically seperated?

        Is it still necessary to fully cross-shred? And can one get a cheapie <$100 cross shredder that can do a page or two at a time(dont' need to do a big 10 page shred at once).

        • Stoz on 06/03/2016 - 21:01

          ALDI were selling a cross cut paper shredder for $50 from the 30th of January 2016. Doubt you'd find stock left now but you never know.

          I have an older ALDI cross cut model that I purchased a few years ago for I think $40. It takes a maximum of 8 sheets at a time (which can be a little tedious) and it also has a slot for credit cards / optical discs.

          Try keeping an eye out for one in the future.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2016 - 22:06

        Assuming you neatly through out one document… Just collect up a full bin of documents (takes me about 3 months) with a bunch of non sensitive documents thrown in for good measure. Someone who goes through a decent sized garbage bag full of cross cut documents and manages to piece together even a name is really not doing anything else with their life for the next couple of years at least. My parents go to the next level and water and mulch them in the garden, they make great mulch.

        • IMFrugl on 09/03/2016 - 10:18

          Yes, I was going to mention this. I usually rip them up and throw them into my compost bin which also functions as a worm bin. Thus I can chuck a whole stack of paper in it with no issues.
          Only difficulty is labels on plastic mailing bags which need to be cut up with scissors, ripped, mutilated, and scratched out. Even shredders can't cut some of those. The bits are spread between recycling and trash or just in trash with a good dose of last night's curry, pasta sauce, teabags etc.

  • nikey2k27 on 06/03/2016 - 14:37
    +2

    Remove your name off everything? i have been doing this for years.

  • petesmith on 06/03/2016 - 15:23

    Can you post a copy of the fine? Did they fine you or your wife?

  • Hirolol on 06/03/2016 - 17:42
    +1

    not sure if its been said but here goes…

    i would suggest getting some cameras installed.
    from the things you said that have been happening- mail box knocked over, mail being stolen etc- sounds like you should have got some cameras a long time ago.

    apparently if you contest the fine and elect to go to court then the ranger that issued the fine must go into court as well? i may be wrong so more than happy if someone can correct me. So my point is that if you elect to go to court but then on the day call in sick so they have to re-schedule the court date. Keep doing this to waste the rangers time and maybe next time they will think twice about treating you like dirt.
    As i said im not sure how true it is…

    • rickmagnum on 06/03/2016 - 18:48
      +1

      I'm looking at getting camera's installed now. I've just placed a lock on the mailbox so hopefully that will help for now. Though most times the postman sticks the mail halfway out the slot anyways..
      It really is concerning these days that we have to go to so much trouble just to protect yourself from the crazies out there.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2016 - 19:23
      +1

      If there is a detected pattern of absenteeism from either litigant, the court has the right to rule against or in favour of either litigant, regardless of their presence in court.

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