Verbal Reasoning Aptitude Question from a Practice Quiz

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  altomic on 04/02/2016 - 18:48

  Food made from unprocessed soy beans is unhealthy due to the mineral-blocking effects of the phytates .

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    InfraRed on 04/02/2016 - 19:06

    But the text doesn't mention that the mineral blocking effects of phytate is unhealthy just that phytate can be reduced in soy products. idk… Is it the fact it says 'essential' when describing the minerals?

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      altomic on 04/02/2016 - 19:51

      Food made from unprocessed soy beans may be less healthy (than processed soy beans) due to the mineral-blocking effects of the phytates .

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  josepet on 04/02/2016 - 19:32

  Its a hard one, but I would have said CANNOT SAY.

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  Ughhh on 04/02/2016 - 19:33

  +3

  The other questions you did, was "can not say" a valid answer in any of them? I always thought it basically means 'pass, no answer'.

  I answered "cannot say" because the because nothing is said to be healthy or unhealthy in the text. The answer was "False" because (direct quote for the answer);

  True, but the statement "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy" is very one side, not even a grey area. One thing I've learnt from bio exams is that words like always and never is usually wrong, most things are conditional and dependent on other things.

  My take anyway.

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    InfraRed on 04/02/2016 - 19:55

    Yeah there was a correct 'can not say' for the same passage. The statement was "People in Third World countries have low levels of calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc".

    And yeah it makes sense that the statement is false, but I thought with verbal reasoning stuff you can only factor in what's given in the text, and I reckon the passage doesn't contradict or support the statement. I guessing where I messed up was I had to connect 'essential' with healthiness but I feel like that's too much assuming oh well

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    scrimshaw on 04/02/2016 - 20:01

    +1

    agreed. Imagine that you are a writer for a well known publication — could be science mag or Time magazine.

    If you took the stance that soybean-based food are all unhealthy then you would be wrong because there are known methods to make soy-based food healthy.

    you also can't take the stance of 'cannot say' because the evidence is already there to prove that Soybean based foods can be healthy if prepared or processed in a certain manner.

    The most logical answer therefore remains is a 'Yes, soybean food can be healthy given certain conditions' so the most correct answer is False.

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      InfraRed on 04/02/2016 - 20:20

      I agree with that but from the passage alone, for this statement, the info I could pull out is;

      -Soy has a higher phytate content than other grains.
      -Phytate blocks essential minerals for people.
      -Soy can be processed to reduce phytate.

      That's why I felt it was 'cannot say'. Because more info would be needed like is the amount naturally in soy unhealthy.

      I'm just looking at this from a verbal reasoning point of view.

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        scrimshaw on 04/02/2016 - 20:49

        +1

        Sounds like you were overthinking things, and came up with the wrong solution.

        If you thought about it solely from a verbal reasoning point of view, your conclusion would be either a flat-out no or a yes.

        Rather, you chose to question other variables which were not immediately related to the quiz, and became confused / side-tracked as a result, and decided to pick 'no answer'.

        These types of questions are tricky because you have to treat it as simply a test of comprehension and reasoning with words. It has nothing to do with science. If you start asking questions like: "is the amount naturally in soy unhealthy" then you've veered off course

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        InfraRed on 04/02/2016 - 20:58

        @scrimshaw:

        If you thought about it solely from a verbal reasoning point of view, your conclusion would be either a flat-out no or a yes.

        But effects of health aren't stated, they can only be inferred, right? idk and yes I am waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy overthinking this.

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  jason_ruz on 04/02/2016 - 23:17

  The answer is false based on this sentence:

  Thus, fermented products such as tempeh and miso provide nourishment that is easily assimilated.

  Compare this to the statement:

  Food made from soy beans is unhealthy.

  "Food made from soy beans" == "fermented products such as tempeh and miso"

  "is unhealthy" =/= "provide nourishment":

  • "unhealthy" is defined by Google as, "harmful to health."
  • "nourishment" is defined by Google as, "the food necessary for growth, health, and good condition."

  Something that is harmful to health can't be necessary for health. Therefore, something that is unhealthy can't provide nourishment.

  ---

  In other words:

  • Miso is made from soy beans.
  • Miso is not unhealthy (because it provides nourishment).
  • Therefore, it is false that food made from soy beans is unhealthy, because miso is a food made from soybeans that is not unhealthy.

  Also, I love miso soup. :P

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    dazweeja on 05/02/2016 - 00:03

    Firstly, there are many, many foods that provide nourishment that no-one would reasonably consider healthy. Pure fat is nourishing. It is necessary for growth, health, and good condition. No-one would consider pure fat to be healthy.

    Even then, providing one counter-example does not falsify that statement that "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy". It does falsify the statement that "All food made from soy beans is unhealthy" which is a very different statement. Even based on the criteria in the text - there is the inference phytates are harmful and that only a long period of fermentation will reduce phytates - and also taking into account that many common soy products are not fermented - soy milk being the obvious example but even if we didn't know this surely it's reasonable to assume that not all soy products are fermented? - it stands to reason that some food made soy beans could be unhealthy. If some soy products are unhealthy, I would definitely not say that the statement "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy" is false. It is both true and false.

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      jason_ruz on 05/02/2016 - 01:58

      The statement isn't, "Food made from soy beans is healthy." It doesn't need to be true that the food is healthy. Consider if the text said, "Food made from soy beans is not unhealthy, but it's not healthy either." It's still false to say, "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy."

      Not having the word "all" is just how these kinds of tests are written unfortunately. It has to be reasoned that if some things are false then the statement is false.

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        dazweeja on 05/02/2016 - 16:23

        I agree with your second point but I don't think it's reasonable to imply "all" when it's not stated. It's contextual. If I said, "Is the following statement true or false: Human males have two testicles". According to the logic given above, the answer is false. I don't think that's a reasonable answer though. The set of all human males is virtually unknowable, so it's clear from the context that the statement is referring to a general characteristic. That's the most reasonable interpretation and a reasonable answer is therefore true, because it's generally true. If the statement was, "All human males have two testicles", then a single counter-example, eg. Lance Armstrong, is enough to say the statement is false. I just don't think that it's reasonable to assume that if asked about the first statement, you're meant to interpret it as the second statement, when that was not what was said (but easily could have been said). This is different to statements with knowable sets, eg. "Flags of commonwealth countries include the colour blue" and "All flags of commonwealth countries include the colour blue" are equivalent.

        Regardless, there are no claims in the text that any soy products are healthy. There is an inference that unfermented soy products are unhealthy and a claim that miso and tempeh are nourishing. Healthy and nourishing are different concepts. Put very roughly, nourishing is the presence of good bits, healthy is the balance of good bits and bad bits. Tempeh is nourishing but may not be healthy, eg. could have high levels of trans fat. We're not told either way about it's healthiness. So if asked if "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy", we just don't know. Given the information, it's a possibility that all food made from soy beans is unhealthy so there is the potential for the answer to be true.

        To get the answer they are looking for, we have to assume that "all" is implied (when there's no reasonable justification for this) and that nourishing and/or reduced phytate content means something is healthy. Neither are justified to me. It really only half-works if you approach it like you do, assuming "all" because that's how these tests are usually written. That doesn't sit well with me which why I've got this type of question wrong in the past and probably will in the future too ;)

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  dazweeja on 04/02/2016 - 23:38

  I'm in agreement with you.

  An answer of false to me means that they are positing the following statement: "Food made from soy beans is not unhealthy". That seems to me to be the most reasonable way of negating/falsifying the statement you were given.

  I don't see how this is supported. Food made from soy beans certainly could be unhealthy. I can't say based on the text. It's obvious from the text that one particular aspect that could considered unhealthy can be mitigated but a) is it commonly mitigated (eg. obviously not in the real world because people drink soy milk which is unfermented and not commonly taken with meat) and b) the issue of phytates that is mentioned is just a very small aspect of whether a food could be considered healthy (eg. it says nothing about other aspects which may be far more influential on this determination. Soy beans could be 50% arsenic for all of the information given here). Even just focusing on the phytates issue - which they clearly want you to do here - seems analagous to making a statement like "fire is not dangerous" and giving the reasoning that "it's explained in the text that it can usually be extinguished with water".

  I would certainly not agree that food made from soy beans is not unhealthy, given the information. It's clearly indeterminate.

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  Geewhizz on 05/02/2016 - 07:42

  The answer is FALSE.

  fermented products such as tempeh and miso provide nourishment that is easily assimilated. When precipitated soy products are consumed with meat, the mineral-blocking effects of the phytates are reduced.

  They've just finished telling you that the issue to do with phytates (vitamin and mineral absorption) can be dealt with via specific preparation methods.

  It would be like waffling on about the health risks of eating green potatoes, and then making the statement that potatoes were unhealthy.

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  shaybisc on 05/02/2016 - 07:58

  The passage says that fermented soy bean products are easily assimilated, so there is nothing to support the blanket statement that food made from soy beans is unhealthy. FALSE

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  StewBalls on 05/02/2016 - 08:18

  +1

  You should have told them that any good bro-scientist knows that soy products have phytoestrogens that will give blokes Betty bitch-tits…slam dunk! ;)

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  jatcave on 05/02/2016 - 08:53

  Based just on that text, yes the statement is false. The explanation makes sense.

  I was initially going with "cannot say". I thought about it, and have re-typed a few responses before my final post. My "cannot say" was based on the text and not the statement. So I saw the correct statement to be "cannot say', which makes the statement supplied, false.

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  pjetson on 05/02/2016 - 09:26

  At first reading, I supported the OP's answer. However…

  There is nothing in the original text that states that soy products are healthy or unhealthy. The text does state that unprocessed soy products have some properties that you could infer made soy products "unhealthy", and also states that with fermentation, those properties can be reduced, which you could infer made the product "healthy".

  However, because the text does not directly state that "Food made from soy beans is unhealthy", the answer must be false. Does the text prove the question? No, so the answer is false.

  Equally, if the question was that "Food made from soy beans is healthy", the answer would still have to be false. Again, does the text prove the question? No, so the answer would be false.