tighta$$ rituals

Donaldhump on 02/01/2016 - 12:02

curious for ideas/tips

everymonth i do the following to save money, want to know if any others to do:

buy $400 of woolworths vouchers through racq get 5 percent off, so pay 380…. this is for our groceries.
look in ozbargain for online codes for woolworths for $10 off etc.
get petrol at woolies caltex get 4c off plus another 4c off a litre for spending $5 or more. i always get 3 milks for two dollars each, no brainer, i get the 3rd milk for 50c basically.

any other montlhy rituals/etc i could do, or others do.

am going to investigate cash rewards…
currently have no cc as i blazed through loads last yr for a holiday, so qantas points are on hold for the moment.

General Discussion

Comments

      • ilikeradiohead on 04/01/2016 - 19:08

        Do you mean that you have to wait 12 months for the statute of limitations on getting free points from each institution? I cancelled my ANZ about 3 months ago, hopefully I can get another 50k Qantas points in 9 months.

        • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:23

          yeh i think 12 months is a geenral grace period… statute of limitations is law related for civil and criminal cases, nothing to do with banks periods, im sure they can specifiy them as they please

  • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2016 - 17:02
    +8

    Rituals that I always stick by:

    Food related:
    - Buy a 1kg economy bacon pack ($7.50 - $9), and split it into single serves (glad wrapped) and freeze them. Single serves are anywhere from $20-$35/kg. Its also really handy having bacon on hand when you need it.
    - Electrolyte powder to make your own powerade.
    - Frozen veges instead of fresh when adding them to dishes. I can't taste the difference, so it doesn't bother me. Some pople can tell however.
    - Buy quick oats in a 1 or 2kg bag, rather than individually wrapped packs. Takes 2.5 minutes to microwave them, instead of 90 seconds for the quick oat packs, but its heaps cheaper in the long run.

    Tech related:
    - Cheap TPG phone plan: $18/month for 1.5gb/$550 credit inc. overseas calls (now a grandfathered plan, no longer available), byo phone.
    - ADSL: $69 a month + $12 for netflix = much cheaper than foxtel

    Going out related:
    - If Drinking: Hip flask with spirits in pocket for sneaky drinks throughout the night. If doing rounds with mates, then I usually get myself a glass of water when its my round.
    - Supermarket for snacks before going to the movies (with cheap racq tickets)

    Finance related:
    - Use CC for everything, pay everything off when due, leave all my $$ in an offset account to discount the mortgage as much as possible. Works out to up to 55 days credit.

    These are the only real things I can think of that are not one offs, but reoccurring things I do.

    • mmd on 05/01/2016 - 00:56

      Going out related:
      - If Drinking: Hip flask with spirits in pocket for sneaky drinks throughout the night. If doing rounds with mates, then I usually get myself a glass of water when its my round.

      Great idea. I'll try it out next time. Rounds are bloody expensive

      • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:24
        +2

        i just dont go out, probly older than you… drinking in bars, and especially night clubs is a waste entirely IMHO

    • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 11:04

      How does security not catch your hip flask, some venues make you take everything out of your pocket before you go through a security scanner?

      • [Deactivated] on 05/01/2016 - 11:13

        I live on the sunshine coast, none of our bars/clubs have metal detectors, security scanners or full body pat downs (On Ocean street anyway).

        Not getting caught with the hipflask is quite easy: just go to a toilet stall for a nip, or when in a booth/sitting down, top up your drink under the table from your hip flask.

        • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 14:10

          Very smart, where do I get a good hip flask from?

        • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2016 - 09:18

          @strikerzebra:
          No Idea mate. Got mine ages ago in NZ :(

        • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 09:31

          @TurtleMaster:

          Will look it up online I'm sure there are some good hidden ones

        • mmd on 07/01/2016 - 02:19

          @strikerzebra:
          I guess a plastic water bottle will also suffice in certain situations

    • macfanboy on 05/01/2016 - 11:15
      +1

      Use discounted iTunes cards bought with discounted egift cards to pay for Netflix.

    • Mrlai2 on 05/01/2016 - 17:10

      Which CC do you use?

      • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2016 - 09:17

        Just the one that came with my mortgage from bankwest. Zero fees while I have a mortgage with them.

        Had to get rid of all my CCs to get a mortgage (which was mid last year). Will apply for a rewards CC soon and do the same. Maybe take advantage of a balance transfer deal too.

  • PurchaseAnxiety on 04/01/2016 - 17:24
    +1

    If you shop at Coles / Woolies, then split your shopping between the two, and online shopping makes this pretty damn easy now. Here's my usual routine:
    - Make a list (honestly, I do this because I have a crappy memory, but it most likely saves me a few bucks too because I search directly for items, rather than browse through each section).
    - Go onto Coles online, and start a click and collect order. Add each item to your cart, taking note of each products per unit/weight price (this makes comparing prices much easier). Complete the order and check out. Coles allows you to cancel or modify an order up until a couple of hours before its picked. So unless you're doing this at the last minute, there's no harm in checking out now.
    - Now visit Woolies online shopping, and start a click and collect order with them. Again, look up everything on your list, and compare the per unit/weight price against the Coles price (trust me, using the search option makes this process much quicker than you would think). If it's a better deal, add it to your cart, and take note of that on your list. Finish your shop, and checkout (Woolies charges and finalises your order straight away, hence why we do their shop second).
    - Now simply go and modify your Coles order, removing anything that you ended up getting from Woolies (or cancel the order completely, if need be).
    - Then just swing by both stores and pick up your shopping. I would usually stop by Woolies on the way home from work, while my partner would do the Coles stop.

    Between the two stores, my shopping consists of probably 80% 'Special' items (if that's the best value option). Now you're probably thinking that this is way too hard, but honestly, it takes about 45 minutes on a Sunday afternoon, saves me a fair bit of coin AND I can drink a beer while I'm doing it. So for me, it's definitely the better option.

    • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 11:06

      Good idea with the shopping, so you basically buy whatever is cheaper at by simply collating all the items by click and collect?

      • PurchaseAnxiety on 06/01/2016 - 21:44
        +1

        Yeah, you're essentially getting the best prices from both stores, except you don't need to be in each shop for more than 2 minutes.

      • PurchaseAnxiety on 06/01/2016 - 21:41
        +2

        That is true. If its not a special, or 'everyday low price', then it will probably be marked up. However, I find their specials to be a bit better than woolies. So it kind of balances out.

  • centrelink on 04/01/2016 - 17:26
    +1

    I shop in some local asian grocery and it is far more cheaper than what you buy in Coles/Woolworths. I find that I spend $200/week in Coles/Woolworth but I can get the same decent chunk content for more than half (around $80-$100) in Springvale or Dandenong Market.

    Owners are quite competitive with one another and also offer quite low prices, thus you can get fruits and meat for alot less all in one small mall.

    Also:

    Riding a bicycle will save you lots of money on gas, parking, medical bills, and gym memberships.

    Buy things out of season, this can save you money. Unless its food, then buy it in season.

    If you get a ticket on the windshield of your car, you can potentially get away with parking illegally in the same lot for the rest of the day by keeping the ticket on your windshield. edited reduced from a few days for a single day.

    When you go to a restaurant where they bring you your drink in a cup/glass, ask for no ice or for ice on the side. Often what they do is load your drink with ice so that it seems as if there's more in there, especially at bars.

    More from here
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/c7wby/ok_reddit_…
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/un437/its_been_2…

  • justhooked on 04/01/2016 - 17:46

    I go to woollies at 9.30 every few days and get the markdowns meat, dairy, bakery normally 50% and freeze most and pay with my gift cards I get from
    RAC at 5% off

    • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:28
      +5

      when do the woolies close where you are…

      mine is 9pm, i try a sweet spot of 8pm… i sometimes have stand offs with the deli staff waiting to mark down the chickens…. FML i have too much time…

    • nanonoise on 05/01/2016 - 10:59

      Sunday afternoon are usually pretty good for markdowns where I am. Bakery stuff was marked down heaps on Sunday just gone.

  • cnrmlj on 04/01/2016 - 17:53

    I hate paying full price unless i absolutely have to so save money on the stuff that is easy to save on:
    - Gift cards for Woolworths/Big W/David Jones from entertainment book
    - Use entertainment book coupons
    - Use local coupons
    - Stockup when things are on special, especially things that has long shelf life e.g. half price deodorant or toothpaste
    - Use Amex cash backs
    - Shop around for insurance and electricity every year - never take the renewal as it is always more expensive (in my experience) and there is no reward for loyalty
    - Fly buys/Woolworths rewards
    - Everything goes on the card and is paid off each month so never pay interest

    If it takes to long to save or i have to go out of my way, it isn't worth it.

  • huybo on 04/01/2016 - 18:55
    +1

    this thread is turning into extreme cheapskates…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs27_4NFyIA

    get more ideas from the TV show… i'm all for saving money but any idea on this tv show is beyond me.

    • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:27

      yeh like the bloke who owned no jocks, or socks, furniture, no electricity, slept on foam, and got food from the bins….
      yet he didnt work..

  • Neoika on 04/01/2016 - 20:14
    +1

    Buy one 2L and one 3L milk to achieve $5.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/01/2016 - 08:45

      Can someone explain this milk deal to me? Its going right over my head.

      • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:26
        +2

        at caltex (woolies) if you spend $5 in store you get extra 4c off a litre.. milk seems to be the only thing the same price as the shops themselves..

        • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 11:08

          How long does the fresh milk last as I normally buy long life due to not drinking much milk?

        • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 11:10

          @strikerzebra: the used by date is anywhere from 3 days to 14 days in the future… i smash milk so don't mind but i always get the ones with the best used by date in terms of number of days… you can freeze milk, never really had a problem with it…

        • macfanboy on 05/01/2016 - 11:17
          +1

          @unclesnake:

          If you freeze milk it is a good idea to remove a little milk prior to freezing as it expands.

        • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 16:47

          @unclesnake:

          Alright cool

        • strikerzebra on 05/01/2016 - 16:48

          @macfanboy:

          Can you pour out a bit from the container and just freeze it in the same bottle?

        • Russ on 06/01/2016 - 03:46
          +1

          @strikerzebra:

          And don't forget to check the milk is FULLY defrosted before using it. Otherwise the first part you pour off will be nice any creamy, but as the remainder defrosts it will become increasingly watery.

        • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 09:31

          @Russ:

          Haha damn now it's getting complicated

    • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:25

      i like your work… never thought of it, maybe my local caltex doesn't have 3 litrres…

      • macfanboy on 05/01/2016 - 12:47

        Well just buy 3 x 2 litres and grab them from the back (longest expiry date).

        • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 13:58

          thats what i do

  • lcer on 04/01/2016 - 22:27
    +2

    Here are the rituals I stick to:

    1. Take advantage of 0% balance transfer deals which allows me to keep my money longer sitting in an offset account. This has saved me almost $2k in interest just over the last couple of years.
    2. Put purchases on the credit card to gain points which are then redeemed for Woolworths gift cards to be used on groceries or petrol. Clear the balance on credit card each month so I am not not charged any interest at all.
    3. Keep up to date with home loan interest rates offered in the market and re-negotiate rates with my bank to ensure the rate I am paying is competitive.
    4. Always shop around and negotiate best rates for car/home/health insurance and even gym renewals.
    5. Fill up petrol on the cheap days.
    6. Research prices online thoroughly before making big purchases such as appliance shopping and even car shopping, to ensure the price I pay is competitive. There are some great forums with people disclosing the best price negotiated for a car as an example.
    7. Love eating out and buying takeaway which can be a bit of a luxury for a tigha$$. So I tend to go to restaurants with BYO (save money on drinks) and get takeaway from Asian eateries that serve up delicious meals in massive portion sizes (which I can then divide up into two meals to take to work for lunches).
    8. Where possible, book holidays around cheap deals sourced online rather than choosing destination first, then booking accommodation/flights.
    9. Drinking pod coffee instead of paying $4 at the cafe and making my own fresh juices/smoothie using blender insteading of paying top dollar outside.

    I find by keeping to these rituals at most times, I can enjoy life and still save a lot.

    • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:38
      +1

      number 8 is good, go where its cheap/on special let that decide your holiday

      • smpantsonfire on 05/01/2016 - 23:45

        Just dont get carried away. 3 cheap holidays this year is still an expensive holiday :P

    • nanonoise on 05/01/2016 - 11:11
      +1

      No. 9, paying $4-5 for a coffee is such a money sink. Especially when a pod is 30-40 cents. I have a pod machine at home, and an aeropress at work with fresh ground coffee (even cheaper than pod). Cheap takeway type coffee mug for when you leave home and need a takeaway coffee. Plus occasionally when you buy a 'real' coffee they are more enjoyable. I always grab the instant coffee sachets/and tea bags from hotels I stay at for work, great for camping and for guests who want tea.

  • mmd on 05/01/2016 - 01:25
    +4

    When you go out for dinner, ask for tap water. Not only is it good for you (Jamie Oliver accent), it'll save you heaps of money too.

    Bring left overs from dinner to eat for lunch the next day. If you spend $7 on lunch daily, thats $1820 per year.

    Change your light globes to LED. Dick Smith were selling Philips LED globes for less than $5

    Eat your cereal at work and use the work milk. Your boss might be impressed that you're never late.:) (You also save money on water/detergent when you wash your bowl)

    Wait for ebay to have a sale. But make damn sure you have a list ready, just in case they pull the plug early. (I'm still annoyed I missed out)

    Check ozbargain regularly, but consider making a list of what you deemed is necessary/required or a desire/want. That way, you'll be less likely to buy on impulse. (Easier said than done)

    One thing you shouldn't skimp out on is eating healthy. Most of us can't afford to eat salmon/ eye fillet every night, so try and buy the best you can afford. Go easy on Dominoes, KFC, Delivery hero meals. Sure they're cheap, but you'll pay for it later in medical bills and medications to treat it.
    I buy discounted seafood at Woolies when its near the expiry date. Most groceries lines I buy are generics, except for Weetbix. Stock up when something is cheap and shop by the catalogue.

    • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 10:37
      +1

      do the LED light bulbs make much diff?

      • inherentchoice on 05/01/2016 - 12:25

        They use about half of the power of normal CFL energy saving globes, and will last you a decade or longer.

        • mmd on 05/01/2016 - 21:13

          Half or less.
          Philips 9.5w is equivalent to 60w :)
          They advertise it will last for 15 years

        • inherentchoice on 06/01/2016 - 03:52

          @mmd: 60w is the old incandescent globe which you can't buy any more.

  • Sydneyswans on 05/01/2016 - 07:56

    http://www.nmags.com/magazine/blacktown I like to read through negotiator magazines.. they always have cheap deals for Subway red rooster and the like…

    • Donaldhump on 06/01/2016 - 14:50
      +1

      thanks, looks like nsw only, looks good tho

  • kuhari on 05/01/2016 - 09:48
    +1

    I have many rituals, and many are already posted here. But for the most part for me it is seeing every purchase I make as an investment, and having common sense and appreciation for every dollar I earn & spend. Investigate each purchase to see if there is a cheaper way without sacrificing the quality, or going beneath the bare minimum I need from something. And also things I can do myself even before making a payment; like using my energy to walk over to a window & open the curtain thru the day instead of turning on the light. Just plain common sense will save you a lot.
    And don't be wasteful. My kids don't eat the crust ends of a loaf of bread, so I put them in the freezer in a spare bread bag. When the bread bag is full of frozen bread ends, I whizz them in the blender to make a whole bag of fresh bread crumbs that lasts ages in the freezer & tastes so much better than store bought dried ones. I use them when I buy a whole chicken on sale for $5 at the end of the day, and de-bone it. Make two large fresh crumbed chicken schnitzels out of the two breasts, those with the boneless thighs & legs, & added veggies make a very cheap & healthy meal for the family. Or a cheap healthy weeks worth of lunch meat for a working person.

    • kuhari on 05/01/2016 - 11:13
      +3

      Forgot to add, sometimes I also use the whole raw chicken carcass. When Campbell chicken soup 1L is on sale for $2.50 I buy & cook the chicken carcass in that, then strain & add veggies to the soup, & have healthy chicken based veggie soup from the bones before I throw them out. So leftover bread, a $5 chicken on sale & $2.50 campbells stock & vegies = 2 large chicken schnitzels, boneless chicken pieces & large pot of yummy chicken / veggie soup.

    • Ughhh on 05/01/2016 - 16:50
      +1

      I think only non-Asians put schnitzels under the "healthy" umbrella.

      • kuhari on 05/01/2016 - 19:18

        Depends how u cook them. I make them from chicken breast, crumbed in wholemeal bread crumbs, on the bbq with no added oil or butter. How is that unhealthy?

  • macfanboy on 05/01/2016 - 11:20
    +3

    We should make this a wiki (or whatever it is called).
    Other sites (cheapskates etc) charge for membership to see other peoples ideas.

  • JimB on 05/01/2016 - 12:18

    I'm considered thrifty by many people, but would be considered a spendthrift by many here :)

  • Succulent Synth on 05/01/2016 - 14:47
    +1

    After shave & perfume is expensive but at the same time you don't want to smell like a tightar$e.

    If you work near a Myer, DJ's, Duty Free Store etc. Stop by the fragrance section and spray yourself there each morning.

  • Donaldhump on 05/01/2016 - 15:28
    +2

    i live next to shops and walk past bakers delight and the butcher many times to eat free samples….. this is generally my lunch
    i often use a series of courtesy buses to get from my house to the gold coast airport for free… i just have to start at morning and fake playing pokies, where by i also get free biscuits and coffee

  • InfraRed on 05/01/2016 - 20:12
    +1

    When I get a text I wait til I have access to WiFi and reply via email/WhatsApp to save the money.

    • ilikeradiohead on 06/01/2016 - 19:24

      What plan are you on? A lot of prepaid plans like Telstra Freedom Prepaid Plus have unlimited sms.

      • InfraRed on 07/01/2016 - 08:27

        Amaysim as you go. Not a heavy user (due to ozbargainess) so I get charged <$5 a month.

    • freemoneyhunter on 07/01/2016 - 21:48

      I am Amaysim as well, I usually spend about $5 a month. For the 3G data, hardly use it, I only use it when necessary.

  • Crashdown on 05/01/2016 - 23:22

    I sometimes buy chicken bones from Coles/Woolworthes. It's quite cheap - about $2 a kilogram - and I use it to make stock which I freeze. The chicken bones usually have enough meat for a meal too.

    • coco1458 on 07/01/2016 - 03:33
      +1

      I buy my chicken bones for making stock from my local asian butcher. about $1 or $1.20 a bag with 3 carcasses

  • smpantsonfire on 05/01/2016 - 23:54
    +1

    I use the dryer all the time. In my job I have the option to do overtime. An hour overtime a month, is enough to pay for the dryer for that month.

    I'd rather work that hour each month than hang clothes on the line thats for sure. Time vs. Money.

    • freemoneyhunter on 07/01/2016 - 20:48

      If you already have the appliances, I would make use of them, it is fine to do.

  • Russ on 06/01/2016 - 03:38

    OP, there's a third discount you can get on your petrol purchases - pay for the petrol with your RACQ-discounted WISH gift cards for an extra 5% off.

    RACQ says "Retain your Woolworths fuel savings voucher and use together with your WISH Gift Card at participating Caltex Woolworths co-branded outlets nationwide to save even more." (emphasis added)

    From http://www.racq.com.au/membership/what-you-get/discounts/Woo…

    • Donaldhump on 06/01/2016 - 09:00

      I don't see the connection, this just says use your existing fuel voucher with the gift card…. but you dont get any more discount than you would get if you used cash….can you explain thans

      • Russ on 06/01/2016 - 11:27
        +2

        In the original post, you said you use

        • 4c/litre from Woolworths receipt
        • Additional 4c/litre from purchasing $5 of goods in-store at the service station

        Because you can purchase WISH gift cards at 5% discount, you could also get

        • 5% off (worth about 7c/litre if petrol is $1.50/litre) by paying for the whole transaction with a discounted WISH gift card

        So if your total spend at the servo is $50, although you are paying with a $50 gift card, that card only cost you $47.50 to purchase.

        In other words, you could be getting a combined discount of around 15c/litre instead of 8c/litre, almost doubling the discount.

        When purchasing 30 litres of petrol at $1.50/l, that works out to $4.50 discount instead of $2.40, and additional saving of $2.10. It's actually a tiny bit better that this, because the 5% off also applies to the goods you purchased in-store.

        Note that anyone can get WISH cards at 5% off, not only RACQ members, as CashRewards also sells the cards at 5% discount:
        http://www.cashrewards.com.au/woolworths-gift-cards

        • Donaldhump on 06/01/2016 - 12:15

          yeh i already use the giftcards for caltex, but thanks for tip… when i say groceries, i mean food, petrol, bigw

        • Donaldhump on 06/01/2016 - 12:25

          out of curiosity cash rewards do bigw cards at 7.5% off, can these be exchanged for woolies cards in store…about to go find out

        • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 13:27
          +1

          @unclesnake:

          They aren't meant to exchange them but if it's an untrained staff member then they might do it.

        • Donaldhump on 06/01/2016 - 14:47
          +1

          @strikerzebra: just did it today at my store, they didnt care less… not sure whether to get more now…

  • ca4cpa on 06/01/2016 - 14:19
    +1

    At Coles express, buy Coles' branded baby wipes (wroth $3.50 each x 6 = $21) and you will get 10c off.

    Next visit to Coles, return without receipt and handed over cash $21 back to me.

    Free 10c off fuel each time fill in.

    • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 15:41

      Do you need an excuse for returning them, can you do it with any coles branded products?

      • Russ on 06/01/2016 - 17:56

        I believe all the Coles products have a "satisfaction guarantee" written on them, that you can return for a full refund if you aren't satisfied with the item. Just say "My wife bought some too, now we've got too many for our visiting guests".

        I'm surprised the baby wipes are the same price at the servo as they are in a normal Coles. Usually the servo has higher prices. And you are supposed to show a docket, otherwise you could buy things on special and return when the price goes back to normal, and make a profit. They also write on the docket, so you can't re-use the same docket to return the same items more than once.

        • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 18:42

          Cheers, how would you return an item more than once when you've already returned it?

        • ilikeradiohead on 06/01/2016 - 19:26
          +1

          It's part of a marketing thing that the prices are the same. It's only on a few items like '2L milk for $2' sort of thing. Red Bull and durries are still more expensive haha.

        • Russ on 06/01/2016 - 20:22

          @strikerzebra:

          If you bought something and didn't like it, but lost the docket, you can't go and buy the same item again (just to get a docket), and use that docket to return both items.

          In my experience, if you don't have a docket, you can't get a refund. But they will let you exchange same-for-same without a docket.

        • strikerzebra on 06/01/2016 - 23:37

          @Russ:

          Alright cheers

        • ca4cpa on 07/01/2016 - 18:46
          +1

          @strikerzebra:
          No question asked as it is Coles Branded Product.
          Just say change of mind or quality is poor or anything.

          It is working with me.

          PS: Once I had returned 15 product at once and no question asked.

  • windrc on 07/01/2016 - 16:18

    I leave my leather shoes for work at the office, and wear durable/comfortable shoes for commute. The leather work shoes would last for years.

  • Make it so on 07/01/2016 - 16:27

    If you are able to control your spending, creditcards can save you heaps of money. If you have a mortgage, postponing a $1,000 payment by a month using the interest-free period saves you a few dollars of interest on your mortage. I save a few hundred a year this way.
    When you go on holiday, book using a Platinum or Signature creditcard for free travel insurance. A Bankwest Zero platinum does not cost you anything, and also has no currency conversion fees.
    Get a Citibank Debit Plus for free overseas ATM withdrawals and telegraphic transfers.
    As for petrol: keep in mind the cost of driving around to save a dollar, and the cost of your time as well (relevant for people getting paid by the hour).

  • freemoneyhunter on 07/01/2016 - 21:55

    I used to own a copy of The Complete Tightwad Gazette (it somehow went missing), it was ok but very outdated.

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