VIC Roads - Refund for Overdue Rego Fines!

LDollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 10:20
Last edited 19/11/2015 - 19:52 by 1 other user

Edit 19/11/15: I just received a letter from Vic Roads saying that my fine has been "withdrawn to be re-assessed" and is not payable. This is without them receiving my letter so maybe part of their review on all fines.

…..

This year I got pulled over and fined over $700 as my rego was 9 days overdue. I was taken back by the size of the fine, and then frustrated that I received a "final reminder" notice to pay the rego 3 days later - perhaps should be renamed "overdue notice".
Many people have been fined without receiving any notice. There is mounting pressure on VIC Roads to refund these fines. Check out the following link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-06/vic-roads-admits-regis…

VIC Roads has already announced refunds for people that had bought new cars or second hand cars and didn't receive a letter at all.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/victorian-motorists-fi…

A win for the small guys here. Approximately 1,000 rego fines were being issued every week so it has been a big cash cow for VIC Roads. My heart goes out to those struggling to get by who have been hit with crazily high/ unreasonable fines which have put unnecessary pressure on their personal and family lives. Some people have bought a car and waited for the rego renewal to arrive. Not received it then been fined.

The issue in a nut shell:
1.) Vicroads switched from sticker system to user beware.
2.) Lots of people not receiving notices To pay.
3.) At the same time technology has made it incredibly easy for police to scan plates for late payment.
4.) IMO if Vicroads wants to operate without reminder notices then it also needs to do a better job of promoting it's website for people to check their rego and take responsibility themselves. People are still used to the old way and haven't been educated properly on the new way.

Please note the following:
1.) I fully endorse paying your rego in advance or at least on time.
2.) Check your expiry date here: https://vre.vicroads.vic.gov.au/MobileVRE/Home.mvc
3.) Police are scanning plates for overdue regos and the fines are $700+.
4.) If you didnt pay on time, have been fined and didn't receive a reminder notice you could be eligible for a refund.

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Comments

  • nocure on 12/11/2015 - 10:34
    +7

    So does Vic roads send out rego renewals well before it's due ?

    • pyramid on 12/11/2015 - 10:40
      +2

      yes it does and my renewal notice is sitting in my office bag..

      • nocure on 12/11/2015 - 10:44
        +50

        I don't understand why people don't pay them and then blame someone else when they get fined.

        • ykwon10 on 12/11/2015 - 10:46
          +1

          exactly what I am thinking.. I guess OP is upset with the fine amount of $700 rather than the act of being fined. Lesson learned?

        • pyramid on 12/11/2015 - 10:47
          +2

          Yes, Agree. thats why i pay it and keep notice in my bag. :D

        • QW3RTY on 12/11/2015 - 14:08
          +29

          Because we live in an age where personal responsibility is null and void. People perpetrating are "never at fault" and are always painting themselves as victims. It's exhausting.

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 00:46
          +2

          @ykwon10: definately lesson learnt. They could have fined me a lot less to learn the same lesson. The point of this post is just to point out to people that if they got a fine there is a chance that it will be refunded.

          I do feel for other people that didn't understand the system and we're waiting on a notice that never came before being slogged with a large fine.

        • Fuzor on 14/11/2015 - 01:14
          +1

          @Dollarsandsense: Exactly, when it gets to $900 thats just a money grab. Our living conditions have honestly gone to shits. Sometimes you're afraid to make any tiny mistake cause one fine and its at least a day or two wages gone.

          The authorities know full well of these cash cow schemes. The Warrigal rd camera that catches a car or two every five minutes is proof that they're getting too comfortable on this.

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 01:34

          @fuzor: Agreed that's how I felt when I got my fine. I go out of my way to keep costs down, mucked up in a due date and bang $700 gone.

          The easier it is to scan the identity of cars and people, the easier it is to create more laws and introduce more fines for things too.

        • poboy on 14/11/2015 - 08:38
          -1

          @fuzor:

          I have been driving for 10 years and received a speeding fine from that camera. It is the only motoring infringement I have ever received. I think that speaks volumes about its inappropriate placement. 3 lane highway, 40km? No school nearby?

          Fortunately I got off by writing a letter. A letter that I detested writing every word.

        • chumlee on 14/11/2015 - 10:05
          +1

          People didn't pay them because there is a system glitch at Vicroads and registration payment notices were not sent out to all motorists so these people were not aware their registration had expired. We are not talking about a handful of people here we are talking about thousands of people affected.

        • rodinthink on 14/11/2015 - 15:35
          +1

          @QW3RTY:

          Basically what 90% of OZB forum content is now.

        • johnno07 on 15/11/2015 - 09:42
          +2

          To once again quote Jim Carrey from Liar Liar:

          Stop breaking the law, asshole!

  • indium on 12/11/2015 - 10:42

    So had you already received a registration renewal letter before the 'final reminder'?

    I've never received a final reminder notice and paid mine 2 days late this year so they must only send it out when it's well past the date.

    • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 11:54
      +3

      Hi Phew, yes I received the letter about 12 days after it was due. I think this is the reason they are accepting that their reminder system is flawed.

      • indium on 12/11/2015 - 15:30

        But had you received any letter regarding your registration before the due date?

        • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 19:31

          In my case I am sure that I did a few months before but somehow lost it. As per Vic Roads there are many people that didn't get any reminder.

        • indium on 12/11/2015 - 20:53
          +2

          @Dollarsandsense: Problem is it says here that "VicRoads will continue to send vehicle registration renewals notices around six weeks before registration is due and a reminder letter will be sent if registration is not paid by the due date."

          So it wasn't a mistake by them that the reminder was sent out after the due date. I don't see the point in sending it after the due date when they could do it a couple weeks beforehand but I guess the final reminder may have a date on there where you can no longer renew your registration and have to register your car again with a roadworthy certificate (not sure about this).

          So I don't think they will let you out of the fine for driving unregistered even though it was an honest mistake. At least you didn't get into an accident during that period, could have been a lot worse.

        • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 22:29

          @phew: It will be interesting to see what happens. I was in full agreeance with your comment until these articles popped up. I'll send my letter and see if I get a free lesson rather than an expensive one!

  • swiggity swag on 12/11/2015 - 11:00
    +29

    You weren't fined for an overdue registration payment, you were fined for driving an unregistered vehicle. This is illegal and you are not covered by CTP insurance, if you were in an at-fault accident you would be liable for compensation. It is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle is registered.

    • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 11:57
      +6

      I accept that however a fine is a penalty and should be in place to deter an offense. Charging over $700 is taking it too far. Up to $200 would be a kick in the guts but lesson learnt. Why not charge $1,000 or $2,000. Where is the limit.

      • endotherm on 12/11/2015 - 12:57
        +13

        You might take the view that you can take the risk and drive around for the year without paying. If you play the odds you might think you get caught only once a year and the fine would be less than the cost of renewal. There are people out there that take the same chances with insurance and renewing their licence. $700 seems just about right to me as a deterrent to motivate people to paying their rego.

        • snook on 13/11/2015 - 17:18
          +1

          I agree. I think the fines should be more than the cost of what you were meant to do, otherwise there is no reason to do it in the first place.

        • bigticket on 14/11/2015 - 17:18

          "You might take the view that you can take the risk and drive around for the year without paying."

          Anyone would be foolish to think that. With most police cars with plate recognition technology, all you would need to drive by one and you will be flagged instantly. That is why the OP got caught soon after expiry.

          Agreed, in the the "old days" you could get away with it for a year or more if you keep out of trouble, but not nowadays.

          Yeah, the fine is hefty because of the implications, but the present technology is capable in catching people out regularly, so yes I think the fine is excessive for the unwary.

      • QW3RTY on 12/11/2015 - 14:14
        +16

        Why not charge $1,000 or $2,000. Where is the limit.

        Why not just pay your registration? It's not like it's a cost that jumps out at you like a boogeyman, hidden away off your annual budget. It's a car registration fee. If you're driving a car, it's a mandatory annual cost just like CTP. If you're not paying it when it's due, you only have your own irresponsibility to blame. If you do the right thing, you have nothing to fear.

        Fines for road offences in my state are clearly disclosed on their website. If you want to gamble by not paying registration to stretch your cash flow, click this link to find out how much you're liable to pay if indeed get caught out.

        Learn your lesson, and have a nice day.

        • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 14:33

          Fair call however Vic Roads is taking responsibility for their lack of warning before charging large fines, lots of people that slipped up on their due date may well get a credit.

      • Handsoff on 13/11/2015 - 15:24
        +3

        I don't you understand why it's $700 for unregistered vehicle.

        You can be speeding through an intersection and run a red light with a safety camera and get caught but they would have no idea where to send the fine.

        You could run someone over and even if the plates are captured they'd have no idea who to go to.

        You could get into a car on car accident (hit and run) and they'd have no idea who to go to.

        You may as well be driving a stolen vehicle.

        Now think about it again, is $700 appropriate? Personally, I think it is.

        In NSW doing a U-Turn at a set of traffic lights (even if you have a green arrow and it is "safe" to turn) is a $250 fine with 2 demerits. Do you think driving an unregistered vehicle (with the above possible scenarios) is less of an offence as doing a U-Turn?

        • thejew on 13/11/2015 - 17:15
          +1

          The car still has licence plates.

          If by no idea, you mean type the licence number in to the computer, then yes, you are right.

      • tee123 on 13/11/2015 - 22:36
        -1

        Accidently downvoted instead of upping. Agree with OP %100. They are abusing their power.

      • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:10

        Maybe they will take up your suggestion of a 2k fine! You should put it to them.

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 12:17

          Ha yes I should be careful about the suggestions I make, it won't effect me personally as I will never be late again!

    • [Deactivated] on 14/11/2015 - 09:22

      It is happening in other states too.

      Earlier this year, It took four weeks for a rego renewal notice from Qld Transport to arrive in the post. My guess is that it was back-dated two weeks by Transport as Aust Post's delivery times blown out from three days to two weeks in regions.

      No one was driving this particular vehicle at the time and nothing came of it, but It there was a problem it is 100% Qld Transport's fault the vehicle wasn't registered.

  • altomic on 12/11/2015 - 11:55
    +13

    side story but no help to OP.

    There was a huge action in Queensland 10 years ago. An old country bloke had his rego due. he lived in a rural area. the only place to pay his rego was the local "general store" which was licensed to do that. his rego was due on a friday but when he got to the store it was closed due to it being a public holiday. he went back on monday and paid. 2 weeks later he received a letter from Queensland Road stating he was late in paying his rego and he would have to pay a late fee of $40. The bloke wrote back and said that he had been to the office to pay on the day and it was closed due to a public holiday. they wrote back and said "too bad" but he could appeal the decision to impose the fee to the manager. he did appeal, and it was heard, and the decision to impose a fee was upheld but he had a second avenue of appeal to the internal review officer. that person reviewed the managers decision and upheld it. the bloke wasn't too happy but he had to pay otherwise he wouldn't have rego. so he wrote to his MP. who did little. he took it to QCAT and that didn't get him very far either, so the bloke wrote to a senior government member (I forget which one) and explained his situation. the senior government member thought it was pretty rough that this guy had tried to do the right thing and was being told to piss off. it went to the QLD ombudsman who said Queensland Roads was in the wrong and ordered them to pay the bloke back…….and the other approximately 128,000 "late" payments from when offices were closed on public holidays - total about $4.5 million.

    TL:DR - Queensland Road tried to screw over an old bloke and got they got done over big time.

    • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 12:01

      Thanks good side story. If we allow ourselves to be dictated to without question authorities will have free reign to do whatever they want.

    • ESEMCE on 12/11/2015 - 13:46
      +10

      TL:DR - old bloke left it too late to pay the rego on time, "tried" to pay on a Public Holiday. He paid his fine late and was justly forced to pay a late fee.
      Then for unknown reason the Ombudsman overturned the late fee.

      • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:13

        Public holiday that falls on a Friday too, So that can only be 4? Good Friday, Anzac Day, Xmas/Boxing day. I think you'd know if any of those days where on the Friday you are literally driving a country mile to get your rego paid.

        • altomic on 16/11/2015 - 17:10

          it mightn't have been a public holiday and the store was just closed. anywho, this was a fairly remote area in QLD.

        • serpserpserp on 16/11/2015 - 18:52

          @altomic:

          Mate you are telling the story, you tell me if it was on a public holiday or not! I'm just going off what you are saying. I use to live in remote QLD and we wouldn't drive donkeys distance to go to a general store that was closed! Out there you know when things are going to be closed :)

        • altomic on 16/11/2015 - 19:11

          @serpserpserp: I guess you're going have to eventually die wondering

    • Olokun on 12/11/2015 - 13:55
      +13

      Do people realize they can pay before the due date. Its like those people who rock up to the airport minutes from the gates closing even though they opened 3 hours before hand. Just because you have to do something by a certain date/time it is generally a bad thing to leave it to the last minute. Case in point.

    • Baysew on 16/11/2015 - 17:29

      Link to Story

  • donbot on 12/11/2015 - 12:20
    +8

    Ever heard of Future Dated/Scheduled Transactions? Particularly useful for paying by credit card on BPAY.

    1. Get bill.
    2. Schedule bill payment day of (or day before) due date.
    3. ….
    4. $$PROFIT$$ from not having to pay fines/late fees/penalties for late payment.
  • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 13:39
    +1

    To be clear my post isn't intended on being a personal sob story. I'll submit my dispute letter and by the look of the linked articles I have a very good chance of my fine being reversed. Hopefully others will benefit in this same way.

    Vic Roads clearly accepts that their current system needs to be improved and they need to take more care to ensure that their customers are warned of due rego.

    I agree with Vic Roads that they need to improve their system and am glad that they accept this responsibility.

    • hayne on 13/11/2015 - 19:04
      +2

      Only problem is that it looks like you're not accepting responsibility. How hard is it to pay your rego on time?

      Driving an unregistered vehicle is irresponsible and I personally think $700 is an appropriate amount to act as a deterrent

      • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 01:14

        I didn't pay it on time which is my fault. This is one bill that definately needs to be paid on time. the fine amount was a big shock, at over $700 I felt like a criminal for paying a bill late (Always pay other bills on time).

        Vic Roads is reversing some fines so this will hopefully benefit some that have made the same mistake. I received the final notice after being fined so sent a letter but am not sure what will happen.

        This is the only bill I have that carries a $700 late fee. The figure is starting to normalise with me as I have typed it so many times now..

        • xsacha on 14/11/2015 - 07:08
          +5

          They don't mind you paying the bill late.
          I think you still don't understand.

          They fined you $700 for driving an unregistered vehicle. That should be criminal. Your car shouldn't have been on the road. You had no insurance. No one knew who officially owned the car.

        • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:18
          +1

          @xsacha:

          Exactly, this isn't a "late fee" like you are returning a movie to the video store a day late, you are literally doing something illegal which you may not really understand the far reaching ramifications for. I mean would you be cool with seeing a doctor that isn't registered because he can't manage his bills properly? How about a taxi driver taking you are your family home? How would you feel if an unregistered driver was in an accident that you were a part of?

        • HeartlyMyProblem on 15/11/2015 - 13:21

          Hmm.

    • Dan_ on 13/11/2015 - 19:51
      +2

      But according to you, you received your renewal notice. VicRoads have done their part. You have not.

      Those articles talk about people who did not receive their renewal notice at all.

      You are not one of those people. The mistake is entirely yours for losing the renewal notice and driving your car unregistered.

      Stop complaining and take responsibility for your actions.

  • Olokun on 12/11/2015 - 13:46
    +3

    Seems strange that people don't realize that their rego is due on the same day of every year. Was funny listening to those people on 774 talk about being out of rego for 6+ months.

    An easy solution is to have your rego and insurance due on the same day of the year. This is something that should be already for most people.

    Or if 1 needs visual cues, set up calander reminders or something similar to this

    • Forfiet on 12/11/2015 - 14:14
      +1

      I forgot birthdays (my own included) and happen the same day every year. I don't have Alzheimer or some memory related disease, but I'am human…. However you aren't wrong in suggesting people take steps to avoid this such as paying bills on the same days or calendar….

    • thejew on 13/11/2015 - 17:19

      Its not on the same day, if you have annual car registration it should fall on the same DATE.

    • hayne on 13/11/2015 - 19:05

      Isn't your CTP usually due around the same time? In which case you have both VicRoads and your insurance company chasing you for a renewal as well.

      Having your comprehensive insurance due at the same time is also not a bad idea

    • smpantsonfire on 15/11/2015 - 19:07

      I would split them 6months apart IMO. it's like bill shock Rego and Insurance at once!

      • endotherm on 15/11/2015 - 20:19

        I agree, buy a new car and your rego/3rd party and comprehensive insurance are due on the same day. The biggest expense of the year for me. Followed by the same thing again a couple of weeks later for the bike. It's not easy to get them to split it to another date for you though, I've tried.

  • oscargamer on 12/11/2015 - 19:12

    i think you'll find that YOU are responsible for YOUR rego

    no-one else is

    Road Safety Vehicle Regs 2009

    66 Notice of renewal of registration
    r. 66
    (1) The Corporation may send the registered operator of a vehicle a notice of renewal of registration stating that if the registration of the vehicle is not renewed on or before the date specified in the notice the registration of the vehicle will expire.
    (2) If the Corporation fails to send a notice of renewal of registration for a vehicle, the failure does not affect—
    (a) the expiry of the vehicle's registration; or
    (b) the obligation of the registered operator of the vehicle to renew the registration of the vehicle if the operator intends to use the vehicle on a highway after the expiry of its existing registration.

  • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 19:38
    +1

    Good extract and this is the perfect scenario (paying on time). however for those who have made a mistake like myself there is a chance that we will get a refund. I definately endorse paying on time and will never be late again.

    Hopefully others in the ozbargain community can get a refund. I was in the wrong and am not disputing this but a fine refund of over $700 will be a great scenario.

  • donbot on 12/11/2015 - 19:56
    +5

    You received your renewal. You didnt pay. You got fined.

    Some people never received their renewal due to problems in the vicroads system. They couldnt pay. They got fined.

    Both are two very different scenarios. I cant see why you should get your penalty reversed?

  • Olokun on 12/11/2015 - 20:06
    +1

    They couldnt pay.

    You mean chose to rely on others to remind them of their obligations.

    You can pay without a renewal notice on the VIC-Roads website

  • Dollarsandsense on 12/11/2015 - 20:17
    -6

    Going by the article its not exactly clear who will get a reversal. Personally I will submit a letter as "final notice" arrived after I was fined.

    I don't know if it will work but it is worth a shot. $700 would be a great Christmas present personally.

    What's funny on this site is that people post thousands of ways to save $2 on batteries yet info on getting reversals on large fines is not taken with a more positive light.

    If you had an opportunity to get a refund on a fine would you take it?

    I have gotten out of a speeding fine in the past (1st offense and barely over). I will always avoid being in a position to get a fine but if I muck up and get one I'll always check whether I actually need to pay it.

    • QW3RTY on 13/11/2015 - 16:05
      +14

      What's funny on this site is that people post thousands of ways to save $2 on batteries yet info on getting reversals on large fines is not taken with a more positive light.

      Breaking a law to save money isn't in the same realm as buying cheap batteries.

      What kind of reaction would you get if you posted deals stating:

      "Get free home delivery every night! All you have to do is stand outside your neighbour's front gate after you overhear him order a pizza!"

      Or

      "Free Bananas at Woolworths with Self-Serve check out — just don't pay for 'em!"

      Or

      "Free money (100% off RRP) — rob a bank!"

      You were pulled over driving your car that you hadn't paid rego on. Your rego was overdue by 9 days. Literally nobody can be blamed other than you.

      While I do wish you luck in obtaining leniency, if a case came across my desk stating "Individual driving unregistered vehicle requesting fine to be reversed", I'd be shrugging my shoulders and moving on.

      • Dollarsandsense on 13/11/2015 - 23:42

        your post is taking this way out of context. I encourage people to pay on time.

        If someone made a mistake and got a fine then this fine may be reversed in certain situations. This is coming from Vic Roads it isn't my point of view.

        Assimilating stealing with paying a bill late? No comment needed on this one..

        • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:22
          +1

          To be fair, they are both illegal. Someone robbing your mothers house it just as guilty as someone downloading Dallas Buyers Club on torrents.

        • Ocean on 16/11/2015 - 05:31

          @serpserpserp:

          However forgetting your rego payment is no scienter or without intent to commit a crime.

          Personally I preferred the old sticker system, and agree with OP final reminder should arrive before due date.

  • burningrage on 13/11/2015 - 14:16
    +1

    My personal view is Govt agencies (Vicroads) included are quick to fine and take monies from people but very slow to admit fault and pay compensation if it is them who are at fault.

    Experience from colleague (vouched as true, she took public transport to work for next 2 days). Paid her rego on time, system failed to update, got pulled by that 'mystery van', Sheriff said she hasn't paid, She showed them tax invoice, they say effectively get f**ked and car frozen. Went to Vicroads, got held for hours, got clearance - no apologies, went to cops station, scoffed at the clearance, called Vicroads, gave the key back to her - no apologies.

    When she got back to car. Car still clamped. Was told 2 days to get it off.

    She hates cops ever since.

    • endotherm on 13/11/2015 - 17:05
      +2

      I think there is a bit of misdirected rage there. VicRoads is a corporation and their function is to collect money for licences and registrations. It's pretty black and white that if you commit an offence they will issue a fine. Saying they are quick to do their job is actually a compliment that they are an efficient organisation and doing what the taxpayer is paying them to do.

      I'm sure there are two sides to the story too. I'm sure it is possible to pay your rego, but not have the system update. It is highly unlikely though and would be pretty rare. If you've worked in government handling money you'd know the books have to balance, if you've got too much money at the end of the day you'd take steps to investigate why and rectify it. I don't know what the mystery van is, I'm assuming VicRoads? They act in good faith doing their job that the public expect them to do and their taxes pay for. She claims she paid it (just like the hundreds of others that get pulled over for expired rego, or the "I wasn't speeding" excuse). Just because they don't believe what she says and go by the officially documented record showing the vehicle is unregistered doesn't mean they told her to get f**ked. If the car was immobilized and booted I would assume it has been unregistered for some time (a case against your "quick to pay" comment). It would suggest the car was wanted for more than just the current year's rego. I'm not aware of their procedures but I doubt that they are that quick to immobilize a car — you could typically otherwise pay immediately and therefore drive off, or tow the car away etc. Are you sure there weren't also thousands of dollars in unpaid fines as well? Seems likely if it was the Sheriff doing the enforcement.

      What sort of receipt was it? Was it paid at an agency like AustPost who hadn't forwarded it yet? Was it paid immediately before getting pulled up, and the record wasn't processed yet? Or was it conveniently paid on the same day so the date of payment = the date of offence, in an attempt to get off the fine?

      She had to wait in line at VicRoads, what a shocker. Then I don't understand why the Sheriff would seize the keys for the car. Makes sense that they drop it off at the Police Station for collection (yet another independent agency!).

      I'm sure after all this perceived injustice she went to the police station with a cheery disposition. It's human nature that if you turn up at the police station with the associated histrionics you won't be received well. Why exactly were they apologising? Their function is to verify the car is clear to be released. For some reason they had doubts about the clearance that was presented and they investigated and verified it — just what we taxpayers expect and pay them to do. Whether they "scoffed" at her or it is just inflammatory language, there seems to be more to the story here.

      After dealing with VicRoads and the Police, she just assumes that the Sheriff's office will automatically act and remove the boot? Did she contact them and let them know she has a clearance? I don't know why it takes two days to remove one, but I wonder if her attitude may have made the wheels of justice turn slowly? Are you sure day one didn't start at 4.30 pm after all the preceding activity, and they took it off the next day? Or perhaps it was Friday night? I'm sure the Sheriff would need to make the same enquiries as the police to verify the debt is paid (and ensure there are no further matters pending) and organise the workmen to attend and release the car. Are they perhaps outsourced labour?

      So in summary:

      • it's everyone else's fault
      • payment agency hasn't processed payment
      • VicRoads records possibly stuffed up
      • Sheriff seize car
      • police hold key until collected

      And somehow this is the Police's fault and reason to hate them forever? Sounds more like a reason to justify hating someone she already hated, or just to hate them as a symbol of the nasty authoritarian government and their oppression. From the tone it doesn't seem to matter — any authority is "the cops".

      Your initial comment "quick to fine and take monies from people but very slow to admit fault" would apply to just about anyone. Call out a plumber and get them to do some work. I bet they want to get paid pretty quick, and would resist any claim that they have made a mistake and need to pay compensation. Caution in applying refunds and compensation is understandable; doing the same thing all day every day would suggest you know what you are doing and getting it right a lot more than you are getting it wrong.

      There are two sides to any argument.

      • burningrage on 13/11/2015 - 18:19

        Mystery Van = That white van that sticks out that camera (licence plate recognition) so that 100m ahead you can be stopped if you have outstanding warrant or fines. The Eastlink incident a few days ago exemplified how that system works.

        • endotherm on 13/11/2015 - 20:14

          Not much of a mystery if everyone knows what it is. The Eastlink incident could also exemplify the ramifications of not paying your rego — get shot at, have the police track you down and charge you with unregistered, stolen plates and that pesky attempted murder thing.

        • Baysew on 13/11/2015 - 20:30
          +1

          Picture of Mystery Machine in Action

      • burningrage on 13/11/2015 - 18:38

        Your story above exemplified how a Govt Agency stuffed up and people got into trouble unnecessarily and yet they refused to apologize.

        Doesn't matter they are cops vs Vicroads. They both Govt agencies.

        She had no outstanding warrant/fines other than happen to pay the rego on the day and got pulled over the next day.

        What should have happened was Police should have checked Vicroads before clamping her cars. SHe should not have to queue at Vicroads for something she did not do wrong. Even if she was angry about it, she was entitled to it. Who wouldn't be pissed?

        This is exactly how if a public makes a mistake, they pay hefty price for it but if it is the other way around, they can shrug it off.

        • endotherm on 13/11/2015 - 19:54

          Your story above exemplified how a Govt Agency stuffed up and people got into trouble unnecessarily and yet they refused to apologize.

          Huh? It's your story. I still can't see where you indicate a stuff-up. Who needs to apologise for what?

          Doesn't matter they are cops vs Vicroads. They both Govt agencies.

          Really? They are completely different organisations. Vic Roads. Victoria Police. Sheriff. Lots of places operate numberplate recognition technology these days. In your mind anyone who works for the government is a cop. I really hate those pencil-pushing CentreLink cops that hand out welfare payments, those bloody unapologetic bastards…

          She had no outstanding warrant/fines other than happen to pay the rego on the day and got pulled over the next day.
          What should have happened was Police should have checked Vicroads before clamping her cars. SHe should not have to queue at Vicroads for something she did not do wrong. Even if she was angry about it, she was entitled to it. Who wouldn't be pissed?

          As far as I know the police don't clamp cars. I don't know who did but I bet there was a reason for it. It might have been only one day after payment, but if the rego had been expired for some months there might have been something else going on e.g. the registration was in the process of being cancelled and the file is active. Maybe that's why it didn't appear on the system, and it took a while for the registration to be reinstated. We have all experienced waiting in queues and having to go somewhere when things don't go completely to plan. Usually there is a logical explanation. Sometimes things go wrong. This is just bureaucracy. Most people accept it as a side effect of government regulation. Deal with it.

          I don't have a problem with her being upset by it, I was just saying don't expect other people to be sympathetic to you and eager to assist while you are tearing them a new a**hole.

          This is exactly how if a public makes a mistake, they pay hefty price for it but if it is the other way around, they can shrug it off.

          Everybody is human and we all make mistakes. She was inconvenienced and took it personally. I'm sure the other side didn't, they were just acting in good faith on the evidence before them and went about their job. Easy to interpret that indifference as unapologetic, shrugging off, effectively saying get f**ked etc.

          We still don't know the reason for the clamping, as I said before it isn't done lightly. More information from your friend would need to be forthcoming. Did she even find out why? All we know is she hates cops ever since, but that seems to include anyone in authority that works for the government just doing the job we pay them to do on our behalf. Perhaps some data-entry pleb at VicRoads did make a mistake entering some data, but I don't know how you get to "hating all cops forever" from that.

        • burningrage on 14/11/2015 - 13:27

          @endotherm:

          If you accept everybody (including cops/government agencies) can make mistake and human themselves, then would it be reasonable to expect the same if citizens make mistake too? Without having to be penalized?

        • endotherm on 14/11/2015 - 23:15
          -1

          @burningrage: Well, you are living in a democracy where majority rules. The majority wants laws and penalties and police to enforce them. Seeing as you seem to have an "us" and "them" attitude, "us" thinks it is reasonable to penalise "us", and "them" are employed by "us" to carry that out. With some exceptions, the laws that apply to "us" apply to "them". Plenty of Judges, police, politicians etc. get penalised for making mistakes all the time.

      • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:26
        -1

        TL:DR people here is a summary:

        People get annoyed when they feel like a victim and carry that with them everywhere. People posting other peoples stories love to put their own spin on it too.

        • burningrage on 14/11/2015 - 13:25
          +1

          Of course… people would say this until it hits them.

          If some people in here feel they or other people are done injustice by the authorities and condoned them, then I guess there is no point for justice.

        • endotherm on 14/11/2015 - 23:21
          +1

          @burningrage: I don't condone injustice. You are the only one seeing injustice. Yes it stings when you get caught or get sent a fine in the mail or get a parking ticket. Most of us have experienced it at some time in our lives. The difference is most of us are mature enough to admit we made a mistake and accept it and live with it without hating the government and their servants.

          If there is clearly a mistake or a genuine reason to contest it, then the same people you hate provide a mechanism to appeal the process. Take it to a Court and convince them of the injustice, and get your compensation from them, and if not, you have someone new to hate.

        • burningrage on 15/11/2015 - 08:23

          "You are the only one seeing injustice"

          I highly doubt that but fair enough, if she felt aggrieved enough, she should have taken it further.

  • smartazz104 on 13/11/2015 - 15:54
    +3

    Wait, so you received your renewal notice several months before rego was due, lost it and somehow forgot when your yearly rego is due, were fined for driving an unregistered vehicle and feel as if you are in the wrong? Am I missing something here?

    • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 00:01

      On a personal front I know that I made a mistake, it was on the back of my mind that it must be coming up but I didn't pay on time. I am from NZ and have had a work car for the first 10 years in Aus so this is the first year that I have had to think about rego (I got off to a bad start).

      When the policeman produced the fine he handed it to me folded in half. How much did that set me back I asked him. He let me unfold it to see. At first I thought it just said the rego amount that I owed. When he told me that was just the fine he said that he gets the same shocked reaction from everyone.

      Once he drove off I got on my phone and paid the rego in 2 mins. Highly recommend anyone in doubt of rego date to jump on vic roads site and check when due.

      I called Vic Roads to complain about the high fine and the lady said that if the date is close cops often just ask the driver to pay on their phone while in front of them otherwise it is what it is.

  • thejew on 13/11/2015 - 17:29

    What people should really be focusing on here is the big picture.

    Due to a crappy cost cutting measure by a government department, more cars are on the road unregistered and uninsured

    That insurance Im talking about is whats going to pay for you, the registered car owners, 24/7 nursing care after you have a bad car crash.

    unless the other car is unregistered and uninsured…

    Dont worry about your $50,000 car, that $50,000 wont even pay for 3 months 27/7 care.

    The government has a duty of care to its people, bring back car registration stickers!

    • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:29

      How is the new system a crappy cost cutting measure? I mean, you get your bill, pay it, then you don't have to bother with changing stickers, nor do you have to get your CTP or pink slip or whatever people in NSW do. I think the Victorian system is one of the more streamlined, easiest systems out there.

  • snook on 13/11/2015 - 17:31
    +3

    You got fined for DRIVING an unregistered car, not for failing to pay rego.

    If my vehicle falls out of rego, happens all the time to bikes, nothing happens. Vehicle isn't registered. Big deal. If I leave it 3 months I have to get a blue slip. I've lost count of how many times i've paid the rego just before that 3 months is up … BUT, I'm NOT operating the vehicle.

    Serves you right IMO. You're just lucky nothing happened. How would it be if you forgot to pay your house insurance and it burned down? Would you try to take the insurance company to the highest court in the land for not sending you a reminder letter? I guess not but it's the exact same thing.

    • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 00:06

      I'm not trying to take anyone to court. Vicroads is giving people refunds on fines.
      Your scenario would be more similar if you were late paying house insurance so a cop knocks on your door and fines you $700.

      • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:30
        +3

        lol no it wouldn't! I don't drive my house down the freeway @ 110kph potentially risking other peoples lives!

        • hayne on 15/11/2015 - 00:02
          +1

          Exactly right. There's no legal obligation to have house insurance. That's a choice. The impact of paying your home insurance late is that if your house is robbed or burns down in the intervening period, you have no coverage. It's not doing something illegal.

          However, you ARE legally required to have your car registered.

          A better parallel is if you were late renewing your licence and got caught while you were driving with an expired licence. In that case you can get fined up to $3,300 and/or go to jail for 18 months.

          So maybe you should compare your $700 fine to that instead.

          Amazes me that you keep trying to minimise what you did (driving an unregistered vehicle on the road) and pass it off as a "late fine" while drawing absurd analogies.

  • denuto on 13/11/2015 - 17:57
    +1

    When you receive an infringement notice it has a fixed penalty for the infringement (in this case driving an unregistered/uninsured car = $700). You can pay the fixed penalty and that will be the end of the matter. In some cases when you pay the penalty you may receive demerit points (no demerit points for driving an unredgisterd vehicle) and some infringements where you pay the penalty are recorded as if they are a conviction (e.g. speeding offences).
    If you believe that the circumstances of the "offending" do not warrant the fixed penalty you have the right to ask the matter be referred to a Court and you can go before a magistrate and explain the circumstances. Magistrates then have a wide discretion about what they do with you, you can be fined (substantially) more or (substantially) less and that can be with or without conviction. In some circumstances, I have seen Magistrates dismiss a charge on the basis that it is "trifling" (and we all know the law is not concerned with trifles).
    There's always plenty of self righteous criticisers and also a goodly number of sympathisers when you complain about something after the event, so no surprises here!

    • StewBalls on 13/11/2015 - 21:42

      It's the vibe of the thing, your honour.

  • p1 ama on 13/11/2015 - 22:22

    The way I see it is that 'late is late'.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the 'system is broken', but that seems to be what everyone dumps responsibility on - some 'system' out there that is apparently broken.

    Approximately 1,000 rego fines were being issued every week so it has been a big cash cow for VIC Roads. My heart goes out to those struggling to get by who have been hit with crazily high/ unreasonable fines which have put unnecessary pressure on their personal and family lives.

    You were driving 9 days after your rego was overdue. The problem with having an allowance is that people are always going to push for more. For example, let's say that you want to give people two weeks until after it's due to pay it, then the guy who got fined because he was on his 15th day is going to complain. The way to solve this problem, obviously, is to have a concrete due date - you pay it before that day or you get fined if you get caught driving unregistered.

    Yes, it is a cash cow, but it's not hard to get your rego paid on time or to not drive until you've paid it, is it?

    • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 00:18

      Going by the articles Vic roads is confessing to 1.) Taking away stickers, 2.) Not sending reminders to certain drivers, 3.) Giving large fines to thise drivers.

      From the article:
      "Are VicRoads accepting accountability if our system is wrong? I'm here to say that we are,"

      "If you have not received a registration renewal and that is because of our error then we will seek to have the infringement reversed."

      RACV is opposed to the current system.

      • p1 ama on 14/11/2015 - 01:30

        I'm not sure what is wrong with the current system or what you feel could be improved? What do you propose to be a better way of getting people to pay their rego?

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 01:43

          I didn't write the article but in the article Vic Roads addresses the need to better warn people of due dates if they are going to issue hefty fines.

          I think that Vic Roads has a really easy to use mobile friendly site to check if rego due and to pay it. However I didn't know about it until I was fined..

          There is no silver bullet to get every person to pay a bill on time.

          Perhaps marketing on social media, encourage people to talk about it and check if rego due. I am sure that if everyone new there was a $700 fine involved they wouldn't leave it to the last minute or forget about it so easily. A couple of billboards would help to get this message across.

        • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 09:32
          +3

          @Dollarsandsense:

          How many letters do you want from VicRoads?

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 10:07

          @serpserpserp: the issue according to Vic Roads is that many people have received no letter

        • serpserpserp on 14/11/2015 - 10:19

          @Dollarsandsense:

          Which most likely is due to people not having their address registered or simply on even opening their mail.

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 12:15

          @serpserpserp: if you read the article it is a system failure at vic roads not sending the letter out when it should. This is Vic roads stating this.

        • p1 ama on 14/11/2015 - 12:26
          +3

          @Dollarsandsense:

          Perhaps marketing on social media, encourage people to talk about it and check if rego due. I am sure that if everyone new there was a $700 fine involved they wouldn't leave it to the last minute or forget about it so easily. A couple of billboards would help to get this message across.

          Why should Vicroads spend money on marketing to make sure you pay your rego on time? That sounds a bit ridiculous doesn't it?

        • Dollarsandsense on 14/11/2015 - 20:37

          @paulsterio: the point of marketing is that they made some big changes; no stickers and at the same time missed sending many letters and at the same time ramped up scanning of plates.

          If they want to switch to full responsibility of paying to a date on the user they should promote this change.. unless they just want the extra fine money that is

        • p1 ama on 14/11/2015 - 22:36
          +3

          @Dollarsandsense:

          If they want to switch to full responsibility of paying to a date on the user they should promote this change.. unless they just want the extra fine money that is

          The responsibility of paying is always with the owner. I don't understand how it was ever Vicroads' responsibility in the first place. So I don't know why Vicroads has to fork out cash to advertise and market these plans to people.

          Let's not forget that if they took out advertisements, it would be coming from our tax dollars - so essentially you're willing to see your money spent on advertising campaigns because people can't pay their rego on time? That sounds silly.

          When you register for a car, you know the responsibilities you have, you know the date on which your rego is due and you know how to pay it. Most people are capable of paying their rego on time every year, so I don't see why Vicroads has to spend money educating people what they should already know before they even buy a car.

        • Dollarsandsense on 15/11/2015 - 16:54

          @paulsterio: your statement is not in line with Vic roads actions. They are reversing fines for people that they didn't send a letter to. My marketing idea would help them to hand over responsibility so that they don't have to reverse future fines.

          I suggest that they put some of the 500-700k per week that they collect in rego fines on the marketing, not tax payer dollars.

          However I am sure that vic roads wouldn't be happy to reduce the amount of fines that they budget for..

        • endotherm on 15/11/2015 - 18:30

          @Dollarsandsense: They have already handed over responsibility to the owner by virtue of Road Safety Vehicle Regs 2009
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/219372#comment-3196775
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/219372?page=1#comment-3202…

          Also VicRoads do not collect the fines nor keep the money. They do not "budget" any amount of fines.

          Fines are paid to the Justice Department and go into Consolidated Revenue, the government's coffers. The government decides what it spends that money on, you know, like schools, hospitals, transport, welfare… I'd prefer that than pissing it away on some stupid advertising campaign. They didn't send me a letter this year reminding me that armed robbery and rape were illegal either. Can I go on a rampage and claim it is someone else's fault they didn't remind me of the law? There is an assumption at law that everyone knows the laws and ignorance is not an excuse.

          There are already monies being collected and poorly spent in the name of educating the public on matters that they should already know. TAC takes a hefty amount from the rego bill each year, and they spend it on silly campaigns like "Wipe off 5", because they have a big bucket of money they have to spend, and they give it to some advertising company in the name of road safety. Wipe off 5 is a marketing idea, it has no force under law, there is no real argument for it. I am allowed to drive at the speed limit but someone thinks it is a good idea to drive a little bit slower because of advertising signs, in the name of road safety because slower is automatically safer. Try driving at 40km/h on a freeway and try to tell me slower is safer. Add the 5km/h that most modern speedo's read under actual speed and you are going 10% slower than you are allowed to. That is a large difference between people driving "cautiously" and people driving "legally". It creates animosity between drivers and upsets the flow of traffic — you are either held up behind a slower driver or people want to cut them off to stop them speeding and claim road rage etc. All this stop start and lane changes upsets traffic flow. That impacts road safety and the smooth flow of traffic more than having everyone traveling at the same speed.

          The other stupid case that comes to mind is that as a pet owner, they collect an extra levy from me, a responsible owner that registers and pays for the privilege of owning an animal, to pay for an education campaign for the irresponsible owners that don't pay.

          I'd prefer everyone just do what they are expected to know, and stop wasting money on "education" campaigns. It obviously didn't work the first time 'round so why believe it will fix the problem. Same with issuing rego labels, the only people who put them on are the law abiding ones that pay their rego. Some people can't be bothered attaching the labels even when they were sent out so resurrecting this practice is yet another wasted expense.

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