Will we fully embrace a cashless system? Kensington St. eateries no longer taking cash

scrimshaw on 06/11/2015 - 14:50

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/sydney-street-could-…

Kensington St, in Chippendale, could be on the verge of a retail revolution — permanently banning payments in notes and coins by going fully cashless.

Australia is already a world leader in embracing new ways to pay.

And with innovative technologies, such as Apple Pay just around the corner, it’s likely more people will find retailers turning their nose up at notes.

Cash began to get the axe on Kensington St in August with the opening of a new strip of eateries. As customers headed to Kopi-Tiam Spice Alley, which has turned a row of former back gardens into an Asian style hawker food market, they were confronted with signs declaring only tap and go cards would be accepted.

Any thoughts on this? Do you trust contactless payments in general? Anyone paranoid enough to damage their ATM cards to disable the NFC module?

I work retail and I still have a lot of rich, wealthy customers (in most cases mainland Chinese background) insisting on paying cash. Even for big ticket items totalling $500 or more, they still pay cash even though they could be earning points on their AMEX / VISA.

Poll Options

  • 288
    Yes! Cashless payments are the future
  • 80
    Nope! Cash is King and is here to stay
  • 7
    Maybe Yes, I would go Cashless if it were more secure
  • 26
    Call the Bikies
Financial

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 06/11/2015 - 14:58
    +4

    Over here, there's still quite a few places with "CASH ONLY" signs.

    • PVA on 06/11/2015 - 15:39
      +4

      yep, lotsa stores are Cash Only, especially food stores, but no news story about that cos it's not hip enough I guess.

      • jaybmate on 11/11/2015 - 18:44
        -1

        There's no news story about that because that isn't even a story.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/11/2015 - 19:21
      +26

      Rorting the tax system one cash dollar at a time…

      • try2bhelpful on 07/11/2015 - 12:54
        +4

        I think you have hit the nail on the head. People paying in cash so the Government can't ask inconvenient questions.

        • GameChanger on 07/11/2015 - 16:16
          +7

          Its also to avoid the fee that banks take for each electronic purchase.

        • Gina Rinehart on 07/11/2015 - 17:07
          +10

          @gamechanger: Yes but even then, they could easily charge 50c or a % fee for using EFT and I'm sure a lot of people would still use it, it's just a LOT of small businesses refuse to get EFT (a few local takeaways spring to mind) because they are almost certainly dodging a lot of tax.

        • Rupture on 08/11/2015 - 09:57
          +4

          @brezzo: Yeah this irks me to no end. I almost never carry around cash so any place that is 'cash only' (I'm looking at you asian takeaway joints) or has a silly Eftpos minimum like $10-15 just doesn't get my business.

          As a side note, I'm fairly certain that having the option there for EFT purchase creates more business than the fees charged anyway.

        • saddybedangdang on 08/11/2015 - 19:29

          I lined up at Messina on Crown street(big gelato store if no one knows). I got to the front of the store finally and the first sign I see is "cash only". Could definitely think it had something to do with tax, I am happy to pay 50c or the %fee at other places to use Eftpos. The only possible reason I could think otherwise is slowing queues down (though paypass is faster than a cash transaction).

        • jonafern on 09/11/2015 - 02:00
          +1

          @saddybedangdang:

          Just carry some cash around and how about withdrawing more than $20 when you go to the ATM. How hard is it?

        • jackary on 09/11/2015 - 16:33
          +4

          @brezzo: Care to cite your references there champ or are you just making a (uneducated) guess?

          EFTPOS merchant fees are ~50c per transaction, regardless of the bank you deal with. So on your $3 hot chips, would you really be okay with accepting an effective 20% surcharge?

          Many retailers also shun cards because it's simply not worth it. For some small businesses, a $20 discrepancy/chargeback etc can make the entire prospect unviable. So why bother? If you're hungry, you're gonna find an ATM.

          I don't know what's more crazy - the fact that so many people seem to live their lives with empty wallets, or that the same people think businesses that won't pander to the same mentality are presumably tax theives.

        • SlickMick on 09/11/2015 - 16:46

          @jonafern:
          Nice hindsight, but it's an unnecessary pita. My wallet doesn't have provision for cash, and I don't want a bigger one.

        • Gina Rinehart on 09/11/2015 - 17:03

          @jackary:

          EFTPOS merchant fees are ~50c per transaction, regardless of the bank you deal with. So on your $3 hot chips, would you really be okay with accepting an effective 20% surcharge?

          Yes, I'd be fine paying a small surcharge on low-value EFT transactions.. It's a better alternative than simply not accepting cards at all.

        • jackary on 09/11/2015 - 17:07
          -1

          @brezzo: You're a vast minority. Most people just use common sense.

        • jackary on 09/11/2015 - 17:09
          +1

          @SlickMick: So no source referring to cash only business being tied to theft? OK.

          Seriously dude? A wallet with no space for a few notes is not a wallet. Where do your cards go?

        • Supe on 10/11/2015 - 14:08

          @jackary: @SlickMick: Show us this unfortunate wallet that is unable to fit in a note. Polymer notes are foldable to make them dimensionally smaller.

        • punk on 10/11/2015 - 17:53

          That place won't be getting my business if its just tap and go. tracking purchases is a nightmare. until they sort that out, I'd rather do a pin or pay the old fashion way.

        • punk on 10/11/2015 - 17:54

          @brezzo:

          that extra 50 cents could be the difference between you getting that coffee or walking down the street a few metres.
          Sometimes it comes down to the coffee ;)

          cash only places, can be annoying… My mate is a small business owner and he'll take the hit if the customer is paying by card. Anything under 5 dollars depends on the customer.

          As for payments by card is fine but I won't be force into using paypass,paywave. Hard to track my purchases.

        • jaybmate on 11/11/2015 - 18:46

          @punk: how is the tracking any different to using a pin?

        • SlickMick on 11/11/2015 - 22:09

          @jackary: what the?? think you might have your wires crossed there.

          As for wallets with provision for cards but not cash, welcome to the era of electronic payments. Kinda what this whole post is about.

        • SlickMick on 11/11/2015 - 22:11

          @Supe:
          you want to see my wallet? I don't even know you.

        • jackary on 12/11/2015 - 17:00

          @SlickMick: No, I read pretty clearly - you said your wallet has provisions for cards but not cash. I stated that if you can't fit notes then it isn't a wallet, because as others have stated notes can be folded into a dimensionally smaller size. Edit: ah yes - wires crossed.

          This is all irrelevant as I'm only really interested in your sweeping claim about cashless businesses.

        • jackary on 12/11/2015 - 18:06

          @jackary: Aaaand I placed my edit in the wrong place. My apologies to you, yes I did have my wires partially crossed there.

          Though to earlier commenters, does anyone have any actual evidence that any small business refusing to accept eftpos is doing so as a tax ploy?

  • swiggity swag on 06/11/2015 - 15:04
    +31

    Apple pay is hardly 'innovative'.

    • gimli on 07/11/2015 - 13:55

      pear eh>

    • Gina Rinehart on 07/11/2015 - 23:32
      +2

      You mean to say that NFC payments with smartphones have been around for years? Well, I never.

      Side note: I'm not sure what the hype is with phone payments. I used to use CBA's tap to pay before I switched all of my things to ING, but even with phone payments.. it was such a gimmick. It's faster to just pull out a card from your wallet rather than open your phone, (optionally unlock phone), open app, enter PIN - all just for a paywave transaction.

      Only when we don't need wallets for things like driver's licenses, medicare cards, etc (which currently cannot really be digitised), THEN tap & pay will be much more convenient/useful, since you won't need a wallet.

  • cypher67 on 06/11/2015 - 15:08
    +9

    Cash is king, why? Because businesses can always throw most of it in their pockets and avoid taxes. This is the only reason most small business even stay afloat. Equally they cant take the cash and deposit it as it would raise alarms, so they then need to spend said cash. I know it sounds dodge but a cashless business would not work for most, just the ones making 2 much money. Successful high earning business would highly benefit, no cash handling, instantly available, no money drops, staff cant rip you off, automated book keeping and taxes etc. Hugh benefits to a successful business, but avoiding taxes is way too tempting.

    • Davo1111 on 06/11/2015 - 15:21
      +8

      Cash is king, why? Because businesses can always throw most of it in their pockets and avoid taxes.

      It's also cheaper to deal with.

      Having an eftpos system is quite expensive.

      • cypher67 on 06/11/2015 - 16:02
        +5

        Yes and no, time spent counting the cash (especially after hours when the store is closed if you're paying salaries), sorting the cash, a safe to hold the cash, going to the banks to deposit the cash or if its large sums paying for a guard to come pick it up vs $60+ a month for an eftpos terminal & you have instant access to spend the funds, reduce balances on loans saving interest etc

        • chumlee on 07/11/2015 - 12:15
          +4

          Also stops staff from taking money out of the till and into their pockets

        • iridiumstem on 07/11/2015 - 18:08
          +2

          What you are saying probably applies to large retailers more than small retailers.

          My mother owns a small shop (in my home conutry). She does accept cash and card. All of the things you are mentioning can be done by a person within 10 minutes. We don't require a safe because we take cash to bank every day (+ the minimum amount of cash my mother requires for the store usually stays at home). The bank is pretty much few blocks away. Her shop is reasonably small, but I assume the profit and amount of cash flow that goes around my mother's store would be fairly large compared to other stores in similar industry.

          My mother prefers cash over card. It simply costs less for her. I know that many people go, retailers prefer cash? those bastards must be evading tax. I am sure that there are many retailers that fits your description. That said, card payments cost more for retailers and the fees incurred from those eat into the profit margin (sometimes the fees are enough to cause losses, usually on goods that are sold at close to cost price and during special sales).

        • redpump on 09/11/2015 - 22:12

          Lol, our EFT fees are ~$700 a month and it keeps getting higher! About 33% of our transactions are EFT so we don't really have a choice but to surcharge for low margin stuff (bloody OPAL) and surcharge under the minimum spend. The surcharges don't even cover half the EFT costs :(

          I say we need to put more pressure on the banks or whoever charges the merchants to lower the fees and make it more transparent. I still don't understand how half the fees are charged (premium, scheme debit and what not)

        • cypher67 on 10/11/2015 - 09:12
          +1

          @redpump:
          So I work for a bank and if you are charging a surcharge and still out of pocket, then you need to shop around and get a better deal. A $60 a month EFT includes $3,000 of transactions and anything beyond that you get charged 1.5%. So if you are charging 2% on every transaction, there is no way you can lose money, it would even cover your $60 monthly fee. That's just the entry level plan, spend more per month for more allowance and you should be able to make a small return.

        • redpump on 11/11/2015 - 16:29

          @cypher67: What really gets me is the paypass thing. I get charged 15c per tap under $15(MC) or 32c per tap for all VISA or over $15(MC). 50% of my EFT transactions are paypass.

          Then there's the confusing list of categories that all have different fee rates. If you can, can you explain what the below actually means? It's confusing as hell

          Transaction fees related to use of Credit & Scheme Debit Cards
          Merchant Service Fee (MSF) on Sales
          Electronic
          Super Premium
          Scheme debit
          Standard
          Premium
          Commercial

      • shamid202 on 07/11/2015 - 20:14

        as long as these eftpos fees are applying to transactions i dont think anytime soon something like this would happen. a business is paying bout 2% just in card reader fees. which means if they earn 1million a year they have to pay 2% of their earning to card.

    • EnALup on 09/11/2015 - 11:06

      True. Paying 2 % extra for card is much less compared to counting the money and then going to back to deposit it after standing in the queue or taking it home after paying cash or give to other sellers avoiding tax or GST. it is dangerous as well walking home with that much cash.

      But many might do it as to put sales down and might claim assistance from the tax payers money through centrelink. Not saying everyone does it, but it is one of the reason it is done.
      I cannot take it that the 2% is enough of the margin that the shops go in losses. They spend more time managing the cash than that.

      No receipt or no note in the shop means dodgy sales to me….

      • glenr on 09/11/2015 - 12:02
        +4

        Really? 2% of a shop bringing in $1.5m in takings per year is $30k. There's no way that's "much less" than counting cash @ the end of the day (5 minutes) + going to the bank 3 days a week (30minutes). Per week, that's 2h5 or 105hrs/year, or $285/hr. That's why (legit) shops prefer cash.

        The real question that should be asked is, why is it still 2%? Seems remarkably high in this day and age.

        • EnALup on 09/11/2015 - 13:25

          $1.5m?? Can it be a small shop? Can single person handle that much alone. Ask again.

        • redpump on 09/11/2015 - 22:19

          @Gaggy: newsagents do in excess of $1m per annum and they are definitely small (if not dying). I have no idea how they make money with their low margins AND paying EFT fees at the same time.

          Lotto = 5% margin
          OPAL = 2.5% margin
          newspapers & mags = 25%
          stationary probably 50%???
          mobile recharges = 2-5%
          bus tickets = 50c a ticket profit

          dying business…

        • EnALup on 09/11/2015 - 22:45

          @redpump: I still keep on seeing new news agencies. So not sure if it is a dying business. One got recently opened in my area ( There was one already nearby). They are either making money by selling something else or just want to loose money. $1.2 m is a lot of sale. If the $30k amount counted was for EFTPOS, I am sure it is not all EFTPOS.

          Anyway we are going in other direction. OP asked for cashless system and someone pointed out of few people evading tax by accepting cash only without any receipt. Discussion here is not about if to pay EFTPOS fees, it is about avoid paying Tax. For news agency, I am not sure they can hide sales as ticket sales needs to be legal.

          Secondly most of them have a note saying either no EFTPOS below $10 or many people pay cash. Point is if you are entering it in your system or taking money home just like that.

          I don't mind sellers taking all cash, taken they declare sales. They might be earning less, but might be grabbing a big chunk of benefits from tax money of salaried people…

          Bad about dying business.. but what about people paying taxes…

        • jackary on 12/11/2015 - 18:17

          @redpump: Yep, it's awful. We recently had to really rethink our GoCard system as we had a fraudulent transaction which was charged back. Of course, it was a $200 top up. At 5% margin it's going to take a bloody long time just to recoup.

          25% mags margin is on direct supply. It's 12.5 for sub agents. About as good as that's gonna get. The good agencies are diversifying with more cards and gift lines (higher margin) and aggressively marketing back to school. BTS keeps many afloat.

        • jackary on 12/11/2015 - 18:51
          +1

          @Gaggy: Area newsagency manager reporting! Few things:

          $1.2m is not a lot, when 80-85% of it is lotteries @ 5%. Easily done by one person as even large value lotto sales can be done in seconds. But your figures would equate to ~50k GROSS profit PER YEAR for the newsagent. With which they then need to pay terminal/line rental fees, spend time ordering scratchies, posters and ticket rolls, pay wages (if they can afford staff), account for shrinkage, and absorb your eftpos fee with. Though even this is an overstated figure, it often extrapolates worse:

          • You buy an $8 Quickpick.
          • Agent absorbs 50c transaction fee + 20c processing fee.
          • Agent receives 5% of gross sales. He receives 40c.
          • Agent has just made a 30c loss in one transaction. Without offering a receipt or bag.

          Don't forget the EFTPOS fees are on the gross sale, not the 5% profit.

          As said above, the only real items with decent margin left are gifts, cards and stationery - so the aim is to try and get as much of the remaining slice of the pie into those categories. Growth areas are in franchises (NewsXpress, Nextra etc) and in more gift-aligned stores (think stores like Wild Cards and Gifts). But in my local area 3 have closed in 18 months, and if some of the figures I've seen are to be believed, more than 100 have closed in SEQLD this year alone…

          They are a struggling as all those departments are shrinking - Think of Officeworks being nail one, Coles/Woolies expanding their magazine/stationary/gift ranges being nail two, and Golden Casket (or Tatts etc depending on state) drastically reducing lotto margins while siphoning all of their customers online, never to return again being nail three. Survival of the fittest I suppose, but there's not a lot of foresight in that.

          Many are doing it tough, and it's rather sad as many of these businesses are family (husband, wife, child) businesses. They're not losing their jobs, they're being locked out of them because the lease didn't get paid. I haven't come across an agent that doesn't have eftpos nor one dodging tax so I find your comments about them doing so uneducated and offensive.

          Feel free to disregard but I'm rather passionate about the local paper shop. Pick on another business, one that deserves it.

        • EnALup on 12/11/2015 - 23:09

          @jackary:

          " Pick on another business, one that deserves it."
          Nice story bro. As I said above, different discussion. I don't want to know how news agency works as the discussion was for cashless method and evading tax. You might think you are having a good life after hearing how local farmers are doing.

        • jackary on 13/11/2015 - 00:56

          @Gaggy: Great - so do you have anything of relevance to add?

          The whole "put yourself in their shoes" game is both futile and stupid. Plenty of farmers are up to shit. Plenty of farmers are doing great. Much of a muchness really, both industries are copping it from the bigger guys. But of course we're getting off topic again, aren't we?

  • Davo1111 on 06/11/2015 - 15:16
    +4

    i thought you legally had to accept cash?

    • scrimshaw on 06/11/2015 - 15:37
      +5

      Nope. You just have to have sufficient signage.

      http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/legal/legal-tender/

      If a provider of goods or services specifies other means of payment prior to the contract, then there is usually no obligation for legal tender to be accepted as payment

    • DealzEddy123 on 06/11/2015 - 16:23

      no… how would online businesses survive

      • Davo1111 on 06/11/2015 - 16:31
        +4

        i meant for brick and mortar stores.

  • timthetoolman on 06/11/2015 - 15:37
    +5

    And when the system goes down…how do they take payment?

    • Davo1111 on 06/11/2015 - 15:50

      When i worked at a chain liquor store, it happened quite often. Basically the eftpos machine accepts the payment, then when it reconnects, it sends them all off to the bank.

      There are some limits on the size of sale.

      You can tell when an eftpos machine was down because the balance of giftcards would say "Not Available". From memory you couldn't do cash out either.

      • macrocephalic on 11/11/2015 - 13:46

        The petrol station down the road from me (large, branded station) seems to run like this all the time. I use paywave every time and it always shows as 'Offline Approved' on the eftpos screen.

    • serpserpserp on 07/11/2015 - 13:32

      Also click clacks are still around for backup in dire need. But often a bank can get a backup out to you in a few hours if you are in a metro area.

      • macrocephalic on 11/11/2015 - 13:48

        Got I hated those things when I worked in retail! No one ever knew how to use them, and they took way too long. You may as well have just not used them for anything less than $100.

  • Ughhh on 06/11/2015 - 16:37
    +4

    I work retail and I still have a lot of rich, wealthy customers (in most cases mainland Chinese background) insisting on paying cash. Even for big ticket items totalling $500 or more, they still pay cash even though they could be earning points on their AMEX / VISA.

    Paying by card probably leaves a trail of black money! Also, when you're that rich, CC points are for peasants!

    On the more serious note, wouldn't it hurt their profits if I only wanted to purchase a ~$3 item? Or perhaps they have minimum spend, which would make me go elsewhere.

    • scrimshaw on 06/11/2015 - 17:30

      Good point on the black money.

  • tonyjzx on 06/11/2015 - 17:07
    -5

    CASH ONLY = DODGING TAX

    • [Deactivated] on 06/11/2015 - 19:21

      Agreed.

    • gimli on 07/11/2015 - 21:56
      +5

      I think you left capslock on

  • noyesmaybeok on 06/11/2015 - 17:48
    +1

    Even for big ticket items totalling $500 or more, they still pay cash

    That's a Chinese thing though. Even 'official businesses' like the trains are cash only. Our tickets were around $300 AUD I think, dozens of trains a day, thousands of people on each - huge turnover and still no cards accepted. Pretty annoying have to carry so much cash on you all the time.

    Business wise, eliminates the need for a register & counter which means another few customers can fit. Good for cities where space is limited.

    • FutureTech on 07/11/2015 - 15:32

      Purchasing train tickets online & eftpos machine at ticket window have been rolled out for more than 3 years in China.

      • noyesmaybeok on 07/11/2015 - 16:05

        I was there a year ago and had to pay cash. Maybe only in Beijing or similar.

        • FutureTech on 07/11/2015 - 17:00

          They usually have designated windows that accept card.

  • Randxyz123 on 06/11/2015 - 19:01

    I think it's a excellent idea going card only.

    As a rule I carry maybe $60 with me in cash and pay with a card for everything else.

    Cashless is definitely the future.

    I work retail and I still have a lot of rich, wealthy customers (in most cases mainland Chinese background) insisting on paying cash.

    As others have said that would be because it is untraceable.

    • FutureTech on 11/11/2015 - 18:52
      +1

      Last time I was at a duty free store in Sydney airport and I saw a group of Chinese tourists counting a stack of $100 bills at the cash register and I overheard the total was somewhere around $2000, which was awesome because I hadn't seen that many green $100 bills before. And this happened again at DFO homebush a couple months ago. That being said, I don't think all of them who are paying large amounts by cash are trying to hide something by not leaving a trail, it is rather a custom or habit that is deep in their minds, and a lot of people in China (expecially those who had the majority of their life living in a cash society where paying by card is not an option) do not want to change. As someone who grew up in China I have seen so many times my parents paying for TVs, fridges and other expensive items by cash when there was EFTPOS available, and just to give you guys a general idea, it was even not something uncommon in China to pay the down payment on a property in cash. I myself once carried 120000 yuan in 100 yuan bills (which is the largest denomination and equals around $20) in my bag from one bank to another because the inter-bank transfer cost money and time, and I have a friend whose parents always bring $20000 with them every time they came to Australia to visit their daughter and it got deposited into a bank right after their arrival. Police published antidotes on newspapers about them escorting people carrying large amount of cash inter-bank to let the public know they have this service available free of charge. As one in his early 20s I have fully adopted a paying-by-card-where-possible kind of lifestyle but I can understand other's propensity to use cash all the time.

  • onetwothreefour on 06/11/2015 - 19:41

    What about the businesses who charge you to use eftpos or have a minimum spend? Would they have to change their policy or would the shopper get stung?

  • altomic on 06/11/2015 - 19:42
    +4

    My drug dealer only takes cash :(

  • hilariouspowerr on 06/11/2015 - 20:10
    +3

    I don't like our oversized coins. Cashlessness will be inevitable.

    • fruit on 09/11/2015 - 14:49
      +1

      and heavy!

      • hilariouspowerr on 09/11/2015 - 19:42

        Mmm that too! I also have a grudge adhesive vending machines if any kind that don't take 5c coins, so annoying!

    • hamwhisperer on 12/11/2015 - 23:09

      God I hate the 50c coin. SO MUCH.
      It's like carrying around a garbage can lid.

  • inherentchoice on 06/11/2015 - 20:25

    I don't see cash getting phased out for the next 10-20 years. But after then I think there will be a political and/or cultural push to do away with it.

  • LakeVostok on 07/11/2015 - 00:47
    +1

    Chinatown will never embrace a cashless system! Cash will forever be king there!

  • BobD on 07/11/2015 - 07:29
    +3

    I bought a very large TV for cash recently. The guy nearly choked on his keyboard when I fished out my "gangsta roll" as he called it. It took him and another guy nearly 10 minutes to count it all twice. I got my TV cheaper for cash. It was worth the effort.

    Apart from that TV purchase, I use a mix of cash and card. Usually I use cash if I'm prepared and going for a larger, specific purchase. I use card for unplanned purchases to save always carrying a lot of cash.

    • nomoneynoproblems on 07/11/2015 - 17:31
      +7

      10 Minutes to count the cash? Why'd you pay in $5 notes?

    • tomsco on 07/11/2015 - 21:10

      Geez, why'd you get a discount for cash. The savings on merchants fees would be ate up in the 20 minutes of man hours used to count + further cash handling (end of day rec, bank deposit).

    • ruthlesskid on 08/11/2015 - 21:08

      —Back in Late 90's Early 2000's
      A Relative purchased a 42 inch Plasma TV, HUGE deal back then. This is when most people are still happy with Flat surface CRT!
      Got a good discount.
      Salesman had a face melted down when they said "CASH"

      10K of $50 dollar notes.
      Took them 20 minutes with three people.
      One said: "Never had this much cash in my hand"

      • hamwhisperer on 12/11/2015 - 23:07
        +1

        Tradie or drug dealer?

  • lost69 on 07/11/2015 - 07:33
    +5

    They are watching your registered Opal card, they are watching what you purchase on credit, how often, how much, and if there are any seasonal changes. They are listening and watching through that fantastic smartphone that is always online and has deep links to your vacuous "life". They have your social media on tap. They not only have a pattern of life, they have your entire life. They can predict what you will do before you do it. Stupid hipsters with their artisanal cheeses, barrel aged craft ale, and unpronounceable coffee don't realize this. Is this the future you want? It won't just be cashless, it will be mandatory chips and everything will be tracked and processed if you want to participate in society.

    • DrStinge on 07/11/2015 - 17:49
      +2

      I'm always curious about people like you - what's your ideal world?

      • Gnosh on 07/11/2015 - 18:22
        +1

        I find it odd how people think their data is so valuable.

        • noyesmaybeok on 07/11/2015 - 19:20

          Exactly, there's really nothing that unique going on.

          I'm not for tracking everything, at the same time pretty much the only real concern would be someone blackmailing you with something you wouldn't want released publicly.

        • meatgasm on 07/11/2015 - 19:49
          +19

          Edit: SORRY, INCOMING RANT

          Just because you believe that your data is not valuable, doesnt mean that we should accept losing the protection we get from anonymity, from overzealous government agencies.

          As surmised so succinctly by Mr Snowden:

          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

          This is why, on principle, I will always back cash, until we find something equally anonymous. Bitcoin whilst is decentralized, is not built around security or anonymity.

          Lets not forget, if just 2 years ago, you mentioned that you suspect that there are government backed agencies who monitor the worlds internet traffic, and intercept packages and modify networking equipment, or manipulate network packets to compromise systems, and who set up fake cell towers to intercept communications, you would have been called a paranoid loony too.

          Sure you an use cash for bad things (tax evasion, drugs, bla bla bla), but the same can be said for anything? What about the internet? You can find all sorts of shit on it. Dont get me wrong, it is censored and monitored, but is the answer to the negative points really "MORE GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATE CONTROL, LESS TRANSPARENCY FOR THE COMMON MAN"?

          So in summation, I will support cash until there is an alternative that is equally decentralized and resistant to surveillance, tracking, and government and corporate control.

        • Gnosh on 08/11/2015 - 10:16
          +2

          @meatgasm:
          I do agree for the most part. Data retention is a scary thing, no doubt.

          A little different to tapping your card to buy gum at the corner store.

        • meatgasm on 08/11/2015 - 17:58
          +1

          Oh sure, use a card to pay for gum, that's all well and good. I use my card for groceries and food all the time.

          I'm just unwilling to give cash up until I can get something which is more resistant to tracking/surveillance.

        • RefusdClassification on 10/11/2015 - 00:38
          +1

          You are right to fear big government. And powerful corporations as well.

          The problem is that sometimes governmental regulation is needed to keep corporations in check. We need some form of government, but government is constantly overreaching to censor us, spy on us, and to impose it's decadent progressive values upon us.

        • manager of democracy on 13/11/2015 - 10:03

          @Thaal Sinestro: But who keeps the government in check? I agree with your sentiment, and find it strange that people consider our governments to be inept and politicians incompetent, except when it comes to our security and its surveillance. Why would that be any different? If the US government experienced a breach the scale of the Office of Personnel Management - this, the country that invented computer security - can you imagine what kind of security breaches our bungling politicians will facilitate?

    • No ONE on 07/11/2015 - 20:13
      +2

      Is it person of interest talking. My favorite show, there you go I said it and add it to my profile.

  • Brendoo on 07/11/2015 - 08:32

    On the other side of the coin, cashless also means no more armed hold-ups for a shop's takings.

    • lost69 on 07/11/2015 - 11:11

      On the third side of the coin, you can just hold up the manager and force him to transfer takings into another bank account with a tablet/phone. Armed robbery v2015.

      • serpserpserp on 07/11/2015 - 13:35

        Pfft, that would take way too long. Some day managers wouldn't even have access to the bank accounts anyway.

      • kkmenon1156 on 07/11/2015 - 14:20

        You'd leave a trail if it goes into a bank account. Can easily be caught

        • lost69 on 07/11/2015 - 16:59

          Not if the account has an entirely different ID attached to it. And the manager has their own accounts to raid too.

        • Baysew on 07/11/2015 - 17:07
          +1

          Manager only has a Vodafone Alcatel 2052 $12.50 so can only call and text.

          Or

          Police arrive because manager has smartphone which always spys on you.

        • kryptoz on 07/11/2015 - 23:38
          -3

          Digital cash in their bank account can easily be laundered through a Paypal or WesternUnion account — instant transfer up to the senders preset daily limit, which is typically $1500. The crook would probably bring their own tablet to make the process faster and easier for their victim.

  • terrys on 07/11/2015 - 10:36
    +4

    When I first started work, the section officer and manager would wander down the bank, get the cash for the ~ 700 employees, then count it against the payslips and put it in envelopes for the afternoon pay-outs. When the banks introduced direct credit, it was touted as cheaper for the banks and employers - which it was. Some workers objected that they needed a bank account, but it was pointed out that not only were they free, if the money was left in, they would get a little interest.

    ATM cards were introduced at the same time. They also allowed the banks to reduce staff, cut out a large amount of forms filing and storage, and were free.
    Once the system was in place and ubiquitous, the fees came in. Not, of course, for those receiving Government money such as benefits or pensions - the banks had to offer free accounts for that otherwise they would be, in effect, placing a private tax on a Government payment.

    Those free accounts are apparently still available - it's a bit of work to find them, as account names are changed and fee's introduced for new "services" [ such as not having a hard-copy book to keep track of the account for those unused to computers] and you have to hunt for and justify the "new" free account, but everyone else pays the fees for checking balances, withdrawing, depositing, using the counter if you go over the ~ 5 transactions "allowed" during the month.

    Allowing the process where all our trades are by a card governed by thew terms and conditions of our Honorable and respected banks, the third attempt to be a bank by the financial paragon of virtues that is Woolworths, the not-grown-in-yucky-dirt people, or the overseas organisations with such dedication to Australian society?

    What could possibly go wrong?

    • lost69 on 07/11/2015 - 11:10
      +1

      All major banks will waive fees with a $2K deposit a month, if you earn less than $500 a week, you are likely entitled to a free HCC from Centrelink if you are a citizen. Both ANZ and Westpac will waive all fees with that. CBA is a joke and will give you a special poverty account that has limitations. That card can also get you out of fees for paying cash for telcos + bulk billing doctors. That said I'd prefer the old fashioned way of paying by cash on payday, which literally was payday, not some greedy middleman. Interest in banks is a joke, inflation is at least 2% (if not 3%), name a bank that gives you 5%+ now.

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