Microsoft Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book

ozhunter on 07/10/2015 - 02:46
Last edited 07/10/2015 - 16:48

Microsoft has been killing it lately with Windows, Office and their apps.

Surface Pro 4 is an expected upgrade of the Surface Pro line, but the Surfacebook is what stole the show. It's a convertible laptop with a proper keyboard that runs Windows 10. Hardware-wise it looks awesome. It's a bit pricey, but Microsoft calls it the ultimate laptop. As a Google fanboy :D, I agree.

What's your opinion?

Base model for the Surface Book starts from $2,299

If you didn't watch the Microsoft Event, here's a good summary of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=rAOISmMmloo

Computing

Comments

  • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 03:17
    +1

    I never thought I'd say this, but is MS trying to earn money from the laptop market as well?
    I thought their approach to it was, never invade their consumers' market (i.e. Laptop manufacturers).

    As for my opinion on it, I dare say this was my least anticipated (I've heard rumours on it, but I thought it'd be half arsed) yet the best electronics product that's released this year. Well at least on the paper, I have to say that it did more than I've expected, which none of the devices I follow this year have.

    I need to get my hands on them before I make a reasonable comment on it, since as with all laptops, what's on paper do not tell the full story. That said, I am thrilled and I can't wait till it arrives in Australia. :)

    • scotty on 07/10/2015 - 08:09
      +1

      I guess they are sick of OEM putting out mediocre laptops that cut corners trying to compete in price.

      • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 08:46

        It's still very weird though, there are not many premium laptops in market. Surface Pro series were already a decent series that could compete with the current market laptops (though it was still pricey and it being a hybrid made it slightly different to the normal laptops available). To me, SP series felt more of like Google Nexus series; they are just there to be a reference for manufacturers more (profit from them were their second objective). The latest ones feel to me that MS want to compete and profit from SP4 and Surface Book.

        • ozhunter on 07/10/2015 - 10:25

          there are not many premium laptops in market

          Likely one of the reasons they made it

          Surface Pro series were already a decent series that could compete with the current market laptops

          I disliked the keyboard/kickstand which put me off of the Surface Pro. Now that the Surface Book is out, it fixes that problem and the only thing putting me off now is the price :)

  • kirynflare on 07/10/2015 - 03:30
    +2

    Watched the entire live stream, and am blown away the innovation Microsoft is pushing!

    Hololens is an interesting device, and while I see it's uses for some people in their jobs, I hardly see it as a device for home users.

    The Microsoft Band 2 has some great improvements, however, they didn't touch on waterproofing, which I feel is quite important for a fitness device..

    The Microsoft Lumia phones sound absolutely amazing! Bit sceptical about how well the 20MP camera will be, especially since they didn't show/compare any photos, but if it's anything decent, I'll be considering upgrading from my Samsung Note 3 (been waiting for this phone to be announced for several months now!). The ability to use the phone as a computer is incredible too! Battery life is something they skimped on, so will be waiting for reviews before I jump on to the bandwagon though.

    Currently using a Surface Pro 3, and while I love everything about the experience (used a Surface Pro 2 before, and this is a huge improvement), the i7 has serious heating issues. A few Youtube videos is enough to set the fan to maximum, with the back of the Surface seriously hot (really struggled to function in Melbourne's 35 degree weather yesterday). Looking at the Surface Pro 4, hopefully those heating issues have been resolved, given it now uses the 6th generation Skylake processors. The newer screen, with thinner glass definitely helps with writing, especially when you're trying to do a smaller scribble. The keyboard seems like a great upgrade, since I do find the current one a little flimsy when typing. The way they announced the Surface Book completely blew my mind. I did not think for a second that it would detach! If I was to upgrade, I would definitely go for the Surface Book, even if it's a bit pricier, because you get a slightly bigger screen, with a dedicated GPU.

    TLDR:
    Hololens - don't feel it's a home user device
    Microsoft Band 2 - great features, but I think it lacks waterproofing (which I think is important)
    Microsoft Lumia 950 and 950 XL - powerful phones (especially since you can use it as a PC), but would wait for reviews regarding the 20MP Pureview camera and battery life.
    Surface Pro 4 - Skylake processors hopefully fix heating issues from Surface Pro 3. Bigger screen, with thinner glass definitely helps the writing experience.
    Surface Book - mind blown that you can detach the screen from the base. Really impressed you get a dedicated GPU, and may consider upgrading to this from the Pro 3.

    • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 03:54

      Hmmm, if you are going to go for a Lumia phone, don't expect apps to be there like Android. Do your research before jumping onto it.

      I don't disagree that Windows phone are decent phone given that you don't use your apps a lot.
      Nokia was famous for having a decent camera on Lumia series, MS driven updates, etc etc.
      The battery life on my old Lumia phone was alright considering how small the battery was on that.
      Apps that came with the phone and from Nokia were exceptional imo (Nokia Camera was amazing).

      That said bank apps were almost non-existent when I was using my Lumia phone, most apps were in US market.
      The biggest problem I had with it was, even if the app is there, the support on it is usually worse than what you'd see on an Android or iOS device.
      My gf for example decided to move to Android after Wechat stopped working, I had to resort to KakaoTalk on PC for awhile as well because of lack of feature. So do take that into account as well.

      Depending on who you are, that may be a minor or major concern.

  • Duoka on 07/10/2015 - 04:41

    Surface Book price

    i5 without dedicated GPU: US$1500 = $2300
    i5 with Nvidia GPU: US$1900 = $2923
    i7 with Nvidia GPU: US$2200 = $3385

    Any idea what GPU they are using?

    • Kozhutki on 07/10/2015 - 05:12

      I don't think they've said what GPU it's using, even the spec page just says "i5: Intel HD graphics (non-GPU) • i5/i7: NVIDIA GeForce graphics (GPU)".

      Beautiful laplet though.

    • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 05:51

      From what I've heard GeForce 960M in the keyboard dock.
      HD 5200 in the tablet.

      • Duoka on 07/10/2015 - 06:45

        Pretty sure it uses HD 520. Because that is the one used for SP4. and probably Iris 540/550 for the i7.

        • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 06:46

          Oops, made a mistake, yeah, 520.
          :P It was too early in the morning in my defence :P

        • Duoka on 07/10/2015 - 06:48

          @Oversimplified: I blame Intel for the naming.

        • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 06:50

          @Duoka: Yeah, I still don't understand how the Intel naming goes… I thought they named the GPUs like HD4000, etc etc (hence my mistake)

  • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 06:55

    For SP4, pricing seems to be (In USD, before tax)

    M3, 4GB RAM, 128GB PCIe SSD : $899
    i5, 4GB RAM, 128GB PCIe SSD : $999
    i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB PCIe SSD : $1,299
    i7, 8GB RAM, 256GB PCIe SSD : $1,599
    i7, 16GB RAM, 256GB PCIe SSD : $1,799
    i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB PCIe SSD : $2,199

    Yeah, after tax and with current currency, it's slightly (cough, cough) above my budget.

    • the frost on 07/10/2015 - 10:42

      The $1299 model for me, most likely, as my current 4-year old laptop with 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD is being pushed to its limits. I'd really like to try the new keyboard in a JB Hi-Fi before buying. Looks like they ship on 26 October, so we should be able to try it around then.

      • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 10:43

        Don't forget, it's USD :P with AUD it'd be around $2,000 AUD (Including GST).

        • the frost on 07/10/2015 - 10:47

          Weird. I went from the Microsoft AU page to the store, not realising that it switched me to the US store. The AU Store doesn't have the new Surface items in it yet.

        • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 10:56

          @whgb: I think the price I've mentioned would be a reasonable estimate since beginning price at https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-au pretty much comes up with AUD price that's just by exchange rate + GST.

  • scrimshaw on 07/10/2015 - 07:43

    That resolution of 3,000 x 2,000 on 13.5" display…. hmm, I think the high-res fanatics are getting moist in the nether regions.

    Wonder how long the battery will last (without keyboard attached) in real life scenario.

    • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 08:07

      They were saying 3 hours, so I'd assume around 3 hours with light usage?

  • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 07:59
    +2

    MS Store has the starting price for two as this:
    SP4: $1,349.00 AUD
    Surface Book: $2,299.00 AUD

    Within a reasonable price range from USD pricing at least I suppose (After 10% tax and after counting in exchange rate, it's around that), i.e. no pricing gouging, that said, it's bloody pricy.

  • plmko on 07/10/2015 - 11:56

    Pretty expensive, at the top model price range it's too close to the Vaio Canvas for such little computing power.

    • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 19:22
      +1

      VAIO Canvas starts at USD $2200?

      12.3-inch 2560 x 1704 WQXGA+ IPS touchscreen, an Intel Core i7-4770HQ Haswell processor and Intel Iris Pro graphics 5200, 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM 11.85 x 8.39 x 0.54 inch

      Whereas with $2100:

      13.5 inch 3000 x 2000 screen, a 6th gen Intel Core i7 (I assume it is ULV one? Not too certain), Intel HD520 + GeForce 960M, 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM
      12.30” x 9.14” x 0.51 inch

      It's heavier, GPU wise you get non-dedicated one. It's heavier in tablet form (1.21kg vs 726g), heavier when you count both keyboard and tablet 1.55kg vs 1.516kg (albeit negligible). CPU wise, it might perform better, though if what MS have claimed is true ("2x as fast as Macbook Pro"), it wouldn't be (though who knows what that actually means). I'd assume if you use it as a laptop, Surface Book would be better, whereas if you use it as a tablet per se, Surface Book would be underwhelming (though much much lighter).

      http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989727/laptop-computers/how-…

      So I don't think VAIO Canvas has an upper hand here.

      • plmko on 07/10/2015 - 19:52
        +1

        CPU in the i7-4770HQ walks all over the Skylake LV CPU's which is in the Surface range (Passmark score 9034 vs 4460), also quadcore vs dualcore. If you add in total computational power of the Surface Book's GPU then perhaps it will be faster, but GPU plays very little role in professional applications like Photoshop, so real world usage goes to the Canvas especialy the inclusion of triple fans to stop the CPU from throttling which I would bet the Surface products will. But then discounting the Canvas having iris Pro 5200 graphics which is just behind the Nvidia GT 940m would be missing a big feature.

        The Keyboard on the Canvas is also completely wireless and chargeable on tether or when used as a cover. Then we have the screen…oh boy the Canvas is rated at 95% AdobeRGB colour, whilst we don't know what the Surface products will end up having, the Surface Pro 3 had 69-75% AdobeRGB highly unlikely they will get anywhere near the 95% mark.

        The only drawback is that the Canvas isn't usable on your lap with keyboard, but then the Surface Book isn't usable in a form to bring the screen right up to you for drawing whilst having a keyboard reachable.

        For about $100US difference, I think the Canvas has a big lead here.

        • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 21:04
          +1

          As I've mentioned, the details on i7 used on Surface Book are not mentioned, some people are speculating (albeit it is on the unlikely side) that it could be quad core from what MS have been saying about the device "2X as fast as Macbook Pro". i.e. Please refer to the link I've mentioned before. I frankly think it'd be ULV, that said, I think it's a trade off thing rather than one is absolutely better than the other.

          At least for the display, I can say that it's better than SP3. 100% sRGB color gamut with individual calibration and 1300:1 contrast ratio. is what MS have said about the display on SP4, since it's using same technology "PixelSense display" as they call it, I assume the same for Surface Book.

          http://www.fudzilla.com/news/notebooks/38948-microsoft-annou…

          Lastly, eh, I don't think either device are absolutely better than the other, hence why I said I don't think VAIO Canvas has an upper hand. Both devices are decent enough at really pricy price. I'd probably go with Surface Book if given a choice, though I don't discount VAIO Canvas as a bad device.

        • plmko on 07/10/2015 - 21:14

          @Oversimplified:

          It's why I only commented on the top range variants, they're too expensive. Also I'd bet it is the ULV chips, since it's Skylake and the quadcores have only just updated to the i7 5700hq. Unless Microsoft has access to some secret intel chip supply or unannounced product, which I really doubt.

        • iridiumstem on 07/10/2015 - 21:23

          @plmko: Eh, it's expensive, but damn I want one :P

          Also, the guy who was saying it is not impossible for it to be a quad core (which I doubt, as I've mentioned before), was mentioning this three as possible culprit or the one below (which has less TDP). Who knows. Frankly I'd rather ULV than HQ on a device that thin, that said I think we can agree that at least nothing is set in stone at the moment?

          http://ark.intel.com/compare/88972,88969,88967
          http://ark.intel.com/products/90615/Intel-Core-i7-6822EQ-Pro…

  • jeeg on 07/10/2015 - 16:08

    The surface pro4 m3 is A$1349. The i5 is A$1499. which is better anyone knows? keen to pre-order since the starting price is almost the same as the current SP3 Pro.

    • ozhunter on 07/10/2015 - 16:24

      i5 is more powerful.

      • jeeg on 07/10/2015 - 16:33

        Thanks buddy but is it at the cost of battery life? something that is "powerful" with good battery life would be what I am looking for…

  • nagel on 09/10/2015 - 17:10

    They are now up for pre-order on Microsoft store Australia $4200 for Surface Book with i7 512GB, 16GB ram and dGPU…. would love one but bit pricey…

  • ProspectiveDarkness on 09/10/2015 - 17:43
    +1

    Well the pricing is a disappointment, but that should surprise no one. I'm glad they got rid of the Windows button on the SP4, it always looked out of place to me. I really wish they'd allow for an i5/128GB/8GB configuration. 4GB RAM is just not enough, but I don't want to pay a premium for SSD space I'll never use. Shame.

    • ozhunter on 09/10/2015 - 17:48
      +1

      Yea, that is a shame; especially since it's $500 more.

  • j03 on 09/10/2015 - 18:16

    Taking a look at JBs pre order prices…. Won't be updating from sp3 for a while.

    Also taking a look at dells competing range

  • the frost on 30/10/2015 - 12:19
    -1

    That Surface Pro 4 with 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM, the one I've been eyeing, is $1999 in Australia. USD1299=AUD1829 at the moment, so $170 markup. What a shame. I guess that's the GST, is it?

    Trying hard to justify it. I need a new portable PC as my 4-year old laptop is falling apart, its 128GB and 4GB are no longer sufficing for the kind of work I do, and using the pen in tablet mode would be great, so it's pretty much the best option for me… but that price…

    I think I should just buy it and move on, get a good case to protect it and take care of it. Wish I knew someone going overseas very soon.

    Anyone else trying to justify this?

    • Duoka on 08/11/2015 - 03:53

      US price is without tax/gst. But the upgrade from 128GB/4GB to 256GB/8GB is too expensive at $500.

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