iPhone 6 Plus Are "Items Not As Described" from Futu_Online and Updates

Allan on 05/08/2015 - 14:49
Last edited 07/08/2015 - 20:32

Did anyone else purchase an iPhone 6/6 Plus from Futu_Online via promotion https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/200301

Just had the Police come in to take the phone from us saying it's an ongoing investigation and it's "stolen goods"

Now not sure what to do? I assumed Futu_Online was reputable seeing as the other retailers in the promotion are also big and reputable.

They have come in and told me they have purchased phones fraudulently and on sell. Now I'm out of a phone + $1000+.

What are my options seeing as the police said I may get the phone back? Anyone else in the same boat and share how to get the phone or money back?

Story Timeline

5/8 - Police rock up literally to house. Shock ensues. Phone is seized into a "police bag" for further investigation. Phone was reported as stolen. They are collecting much more phones than mine and doing their rounds.

Filed PayPal dispute. Thinking what else to do? I know. Post on OzBargain.

Contact made by Futu_Online on working to clear this up.

6/8 - Head to police station to give statement. If no documentation I would have been interviewed as a suspect. Luckily I have documentation - receipts and emails proving I purchased iPhone from Futu_Online eBay. Police assure I am not in trouble. Phone is seized and is up to court to determine rightful owner. No timeframe to appear in court.

7/8 - Contact made by Futu_Online. Good news. They talked about what happened. The police talked to them too. It seems like it's a bad supplier issue and it is not in their interest to sell stolen things. Their stock is Australian and not grey imports. Offered replacement or refund. I went with replacement as that's what I was really after and if it were to happen again then it truly is gameover for them. If it's a good replacement, hopefully they learn to be more careful about their suppliers and offer better bargains for OzBargainers.

Changed title of post as I can't assume they knowingly sold "stolen items"

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Comments

  • nocure on 05/08/2015 - 14:55
    +12

    Paypal Dispute..Make sure you get a police report.

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 15:20

      Two options in the dispute center - Item not received or below.

      How was the item significantly not as described?
      Damaged
      Externally damaged For example:Scratched, cracked, chipped, ripped or dented Stained
      For example:

      Scratched, cracked, chipped, ripped or dented
Stained

      Internally damaged For example:Power doesn't turn on Doesn't function properly
      For example:

      Power doesn't turn on
Doesn't function properly

      Incomplete
      Missing parts that prevent item from being used For example:Missing computer processor or motor
      For example:

      Missing computer processor or motor

      Missing quantity For example:You ordered 12 units but received 6
      For example:

      You ordered 12 units but received 6

      Incomplete duration For example:You expected a service to last 2 hours but it only lasted 1 hour
      For example:

      You expected a service to last 2 hours but it only lasted 1 hour

      Materially Different
      Entirely different item For example:You ordered a book but received a brick
      For example:

      You ordered a book but received a brick

      Different design or material
      Different model, version or size For example:Incompatible operating system Motorcycle engine v. car engine Shoes too small to wear
      For example:

      Incompatible operating system
Motorcycle engine v. car engine
Shoes too small to wear

      Less valuable substitute
      Significant colour difference
      Slight colour difference
      Used when described as new For example:Original listing said it was 'new' or 'mint'
      For example:

      Original listing said it was 'new' or 'mint'

      Entirely different service/event
      Unusable
      Ruined food or plants For example:Spoiled foodDead or wilted plant
      For example:

      Spoiled food
Dead or wilted plant

      Time-sensitive item arrived late For example:Concert ticket
      For example:

      Concert ticket

      Time of service/event/travel was changed
      Other
      Postage cost issues
      GST issues

      Nothing for "Stolen Goods"

      Going Police Station tomorrow for statement and paperwork.

      • QuickToThePointless on 05/08/2015 - 15:24
        +1

        Just put it through as damaged, it wont matter given that police are involved

      • This Guy on 07/08/2015 - 04:10
        +1

        Different design or material
        Stolen vs grey import

        or

        Less valuable substitute
        Original listing said it was 'new' 'AU Stock', not stolen

    • battler on 05/08/2015 - 15:21
      +10

      lucky paypal increased timeframe from 45 to 180 days!

    • QuickToThePointless on 05/08/2015 - 15:22
      +6

      Really dont like the paypal economy but lucky this wasnt credit card or cash

      • Kenb0 on 07/08/2015 - 13:28
        +3

        why would it be so bad if it was credit card? just initiate a chargeback on the card and explain it was for stolen goods that wasn't disclosed

        • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2015 - 19:35
          +1

          Absolutely right. I have had two experiences in the last ten years where AMEX came to the rescue because the purchased goods were misrepresented.

  • KaTst3R on 05/08/2015 - 15:05
    +32

    wow this is pretty serious shit…

  • busterau on 05/08/2015 - 15:24
    +1

    I believe futu_online and shoppingexpress are one and the same. It maybe worth shooting the rep off a message.

    • 01011010 on 05/08/2015 - 16:06
      +43

      yeah good job, lie to the police.. well done.

    • Woodyg22 on 05/08/2015 - 16:44
      +7

      not like they clearly tracked it to OP's house…

    • altomic on 05/08/2015 - 21:34
      +22

      stargalaxy has a point, and then grab one of their guns…..

      • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2015 - 05:44
        +19
        1. Then run to their car that is probably stuffed full of collected stolen iPhones.
        2. Post OzB deal for iPhones.
        3. Profit
        • Zachary on 06/08/2015 - 14:44
          +4

          Before 2. Hijack the car with said iPhones before cops bust your ass.

          Grand Theft Auto OZ stories is born

        • tyler.durden on 07/08/2015 - 11:10
          -1

          1b. Police shoot you in the back and made up a story that you try to grab their gun

  • 2jzzzz on 05/08/2015 - 15:40
    +32

    You sure they were real police?

    • Hellfire on 05/08/2015 - 15:56
      +7

      Yeah. I hope you got a receipt from them.

    • DealzEddy123 on 05/08/2015 - 16:21
      +1

      haha nice

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 17:49
      +5

      That's a very good question. Fortunately yes they were real - badges/badge numbers/phone confirmation - you can always call up the police station to confirm.

    • altomic on 05/08/2015 - 21:35
      +2

      he means the real Police

  • Blugok on 05/08/2015 - 16:52
    +10

    how did the police even know where you live and have the stolen iphone?

    Did futu online release customer details on who had purchased their stolen iphones?

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 17:51
      +5

      I'm not sure how they managed to track down the phone. I am shocked as well!

      • peeweekathi on 05/08/2015 - 21:14
        +1

        They would have had a warrant to seize all materials relating to the offences! Computer and records would likely have been seized and examined. Hope this helps!

        • Allan on 06/08/2015 - 19:10
          +4

          Found out they track with IMEI and they examined whatever they could find to further investigation. Quite interesting! It feels like in the movies

        • whooah1979 on 07/08/2015 - 06:56
          +2

          @Allan:

          did the police show you a warrant to seize this alleged stolen item?

        • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 19:55

          @whooah1979: Not sure if this is a warrant but they talked in a very serious tone about seizing the phone in relation to the case. This was long after confirming they were police so I believed what they said. Full cooperation - just in a lot of shock at what was happening. Phone was put into a "police bag" and sealed up. They also wanted a statement at the police station. If I didn't have any real documentation I would have been suspect too :|

    • This Guy on 07/08/2015 - 04:12
      -2

      Owner would have used the find my phone function then given the location to the police in their police report.

    • ctrlaltdel on 07/08/2015 - 07:28

      police must be monitoring his calls :P

      or police got a warrant to get his address from ebay/paypal/futu.

      perhaps he had one of those counterfeit iphone factory that was recently caught and closed in china.

    • akastyl13 on 07/08/2015 - 08:38

      When iphones are stolen, company that own them send all IMEI numbers missing to Apple.
      once these iPhones are connected to the network, they are localized and Apple provide location to the Police. (IP address etc).
      You should not be penalized or anything as you were not aware it was a stolen unit.

      • windrc on 07/08/2015 - 16:56
        +1

        it's the right thing to do to hand the stolen iphone over to the police so they can close their case

  • stargalaxy on 05/08/2015 - 17:17

    So is Futu dodgy or just make an error of judgement buying this batch of stolen goods? I think I bought a laptop from them 2 years ago, wonder whether the police will come knocking my door.

    • KaTst3R on 05/08/2015 - 17:40

      If your laptop has an IMEI and GPS…then the answer if yes…

      • Zachary on 05/08/2015 - 18:06
        -6

        Well you can check using this site: http://www.imei.info/ Just enter your IMEI/MEID. But you'll have to pay 3.99USD to find out if it's blacklisted/reported as stolen…..

        Just used that on my phone and everything seems to be legit…..

        • KaTst3R on 06/08/2015 - 01:37

          I was being sarcastic…generally laptops dont have IMEI nor GPS…

        • Brendoo on 06/08/2015 - 08:02
          +6

          It doesn't cost anything to do an IMEI check in Australia. It's a free service provided by the Australian Mobile Telecommunications Association (AMTA), which Telstra, Optus, Voda are members of. I'd say that other site is using the official info and charging people for it to rip them off.

          http://www.amta.org.au/pages/amta/Check.the.Status.of.your.H…

        • Zachary on 06/08/2015 - 14:30
          -2

          @Brendoo: hm, interesting…

          My phone came up as unblocked - which is true(I didn't actually pay 3.99USD to check to see if my phone was blacklisted or not. :P).

          Doesn't detail you any more other stuff, like what plan you're on(prepaid/monthly), how much credit you have left and other technical specifications, etc., that that other website shows when you verify your IMEI/MEID #.

          @KaTst3R: Yeah, I didn't think laptops came with GPS and EMEI/MEID, but thought seeing I haven't been in the laptop market for a while, maybe they have changed and have embedded these codes just like they did with phones.

          I offered the link just as a reference if you wanted to check.

        • Gravy on 06/08/2015 - 23:04
          +1

          @KaTst3R:
          I have a little HP Mini 5102 that has a 3G card inbuilt, and GPS is part of that card. But yeah they are few and far between.

        • KaTst3R on 06/08/2015 - 23:41

          @Gravy:

          One of the rare ones…

        • shamid202 on 08/08/2015 - 10:10

          @Brendoo: if the phone is blacklisted/ IMEI blocked definitly OP will notice that as he wont be able to make phone calls. so it wont show up as stolen over there.

          I think supplier of Futu changed the IMEI numbers Illegally.

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 17:55

      Well we don't know what happened here and I don't think the Police are going to divulge this information. Since it's over 2 years I say you're safe. Too many unknowns but just a victim here

  • spychiatrist on 05/08/2015 - 17:40

    So the police can really track iphones. Good thing I handed the iphone we found to the police station.

    The words scam and accc haven't been used for a change

    • PVA on 05/08/2015 - 18:22
      +11

      they wouldnt be tracking the phone at all, they would have a list from the supplier as part of the investigation.

  • stargalaxy on 05/08/2015 - 17:44

    In this case, the buyers should not be penalised for buying a stolen property as the buyer buys from a deals posted on ebay, not between 2 individuals, any penalties imposed have to be on seller for not exercising cautions in making the purchase.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2015 - 05:51
      +1

      The buyer isn't being penalised, they are just out-of-pocket. Their issue is with the seller.

      If the phone was stolen, the buyer is not the legal owner as it still belongs to the rightful owner.

      • stargalaxy on 06/08/2015 - 10:55

        Out of pocket = penalised for loss of money as far as I am concern, buyer pays for a product, if he didn't get it and able to enjoy the use of it, he is being penalised.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2015 - 11:44
          -1

          Penalised would be if the police took action against the buyer, e.g. for being in possession of stolen goods.

          Instead the issue is "item not received". The phone wasn't the seller's to sell. Why should the rightful owner be deprived of their property?

          If your phone got stolen and sold to an unsuspecting buyer, and the police found who had it, wouldn't you want your phone back?

        • stargalaxy on 06/08/2015 - 11:58
          +2

          @Thrift: Yes, the phone should be returned to the rightful owner and the buyer should either get his money back or another similar phone, if buyer get neither, he is being penalised.

        • stargalaxy on 06/08/2015 - 11:59

          And buyer already being penalised for loss of use of a phone he have bought and pay good money for it.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2015 - 12:18
          -1

          @stargalaxy: So the buyer chases up their money, be it a refund from the store, a PayPal claim, or credit card chargeback - there's no penalty involved.

  • Richardc on 05/08/2015 - 18:10

    do u have tax invoice from futu?

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 18:14

      Yes I do.

  • Zachary on 05/08/2015 - 18:13

    Badluck Allan. Hope you get this solved and your money back for this. ☺ I wonder if there's anyone else who bought from that seller and had cops kicking down their door?

    • Allan on 05/08/2015 - 18:14

      That's what I'm wondering as the cops were doing their rounds :(

  • PVA on 05/08/2015 - 18:21
    +4

    The police would not be tracking the phones via the imie/gps. they would have an investigation with futu and suppliers about the goods and futu has supplied a list of where the items have gone.
    more likely the supplier that futu bought from are the ones that received the stolen goods (prob without knowledge) and passed on to companies like futu.

    • shamid202 on 08/08/2015 - 10:13

      thats what we get from goo deals

  • jd4free on 06/08/2015 - 01:43
    +1

    This is just crazy, please keep us posted I'd really like to know what happens in the I end. I guess someone has to wear it in the end, but it shouldn't be the buyer… Possession is 9/10th my ass…

  • knaff on 06/08/2015 - 11:24

    I bought a 32Gb memory card from them during the 20% off sale, no police visit yet.

    I guess it depends if they care about a $13 card

  • d3ft on 06/08/2015 - 18:01

    Well the same mob just sold me an obviously used MX Master mouse so not sure what is going on at the place… maybe it was stolen too.

  • Allan on 06/08/2015 - 19:07
    +2

    Ok update time. Gave my statement to police today. If I didn't have receipts I would be even in more crap. Luckily it was done through ebay with receipts etc. I didn't get much information from the police due to them working on the investigation but reassured me I wasn't in any trouble.

    Problem is phone is still seized and unlikely I will get it back. The police job is to retrieve. It's going to court to determine who the rightful owner would be. That could be weeks or in months, no predetermined timeframe.

    I'll try and get in contact with Futu tomorrow and see what they can do. Hope they come good and help out. Would you guys chance it with another iPhone?

    • WorkAround on 06/08/2015 - 21:13

      Just ask for one that didn't fall off the back of a truck. :P

    • twoface41face on 07/08/2015 - 00:08
      +1

      in that case you should be fine. if you bought it in good faith and was not privy to the fact it was stolen, it should be yours.

      reference: law subject at uni a few years ago

      • bobbified on 07/08/2015 - 10:23
        +1

        not sure why this comment was neg'd…

      • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:00

        According to the police, I would have had to attend court to plead my case and it was really up to them to decide who it belonged to. Wasn't the police job as they put it. I kept asking will I have a high chance of getting my phone back and based on his replies pointed towards unlikely. No determined time frame to go court too.

        • shamid202 on 08/08/2015 - 10:15
          +2

          if its a stolen property you have no right to keep it, kiss your phone goodbye.

  • Garagesale on 06/08/2015 - 20:26

    Credit card chargeback best idea.
    Go straight to bank.

  • pinkscarf on 06/08/2015 - 21:29

    Hi guys just read this & I did buy iphone 6 from the same deal!
    But I only just got back from overseas so yet to transfer my data from old iphone to new & start using it!
    But this has me worried .. I obviously hvn't heard anything from police yet but wanted to see if it's happened to others?!
    Now I don't know if I bother to use the phone or wait to see what happens with the case …

    • ProjectZero on 07/08/2015 - 13:00

      Contact futu via ebay… or perhaps take it up with the police?

      • pinkscarf on 07/08/2015 - 18:41

        Yeah I have contacted futu so let's see
        But with the weekend probably I won't hear anything until next week now

  • anonymous01 on 06/08/2015 - 23:43
    -3

    If it's an ongoing investigation, should you be posting it here?

    • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:04
      +2

      You know this is a good question too! According to the police I'm not committing an offence by talking about it but it's better to talk as little of course.

      I'm only posting here to keep the community informed and see what outcomes are available. Even if I'm the only one in this situation, at least others can learn from it and be wary.

  • jzdhgkd on 07/08/2015 - 00:27

    Definitely contact Futu before you do anything rash like a chargeback as others have suggested. They've got 140,000 transactions over 6 years with 99.9% positive so I'm pretty sure they're not knowingly selling stolen goods.

    IMO you should only do a chargeback if they don't respond within a reasonable time frame or refuse to provide compensation (i.e. a new phone)

    • MynyMouqe on 07/08/2015 - 11:37
      +1

      Err, no, the OP needs to secure his money ASAP - the vendor has already supplied what has been seized as stolen goods, therefore I would be putting no further trust in their word!

      I think it's particularly concerning that Shopping Express/Futu have not come on here and made a statement - they're big users of the site, and obviously will be aware of the issue.

      • fruxo on 07/08/2015 - 15:08

        The big wigs are probably in meetings trying to decide what approach to take to minimize brand damage

    • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:07
      +1

      I have filed PayPal dispute and have been contacted by Futu. I decided to go for a replacement.

      Reasons is they have reputation and big online presence. Do they want to lose much more $$$ over a few iPhones? As our community keeps growing, we can actually help or destroy businesses. If it happens to me again, then I took one for the team to stop other OzBargainers from getting into the same boat and hopefully sink the ship once and for all.

  • MynyMouqe on 07/08/2015 - 11:42
    +1

    Looking at their eBay feedback, someone else has had issues with a stolen iPhone as well - "sold me a stolen Iphone 6 plus.. the phone cannot be used with any sim card".

    Not looking good at all!

  • JimB on 07/08/2015 - 12:23
    -1

    They aren't going to deliberately sell stolen iPhones, it would be silly as iPhones can be tracked by Apple, that's why you don't need a receipt when you present your phone for warranty.

    They were probably sold a batch of stolen phones by their grey market supplier.

    • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:08

      Yes it would be silly to sell stolen iPhones as a big online retailer. Most likely bad batch from supplier.

  • t_c on 07/08/2015 - 13:39
    +4

    Contact ch 9 ACA, this story is prime time gold. Make sure to negotiate a replacement iphone for doing interview.

  • sengork on 07/08/2015 - 13:55
    +2

    I wonder if this also affects their recent SSD deals…

  • Saiya on 07/08/2015 - 14:55

    Let us know how you go OP. Shopping Express and Futu online are both the same company. Never liked Shopping Express since they tried to do a dodgey on me when I got a DOA micro server.

    • tyler.durden on 07/08/2015 - 19:57
      -1

      How did they do a dodgey?
      please explain

  • fruxo on 07/08/2015 - 15:02

    Obviously just contact futo and they will sort you out. Might take a couple of days to confirm etc as helpdesk person will probably not be aware of this. But afterwards, I'm sure they'll send you a new phone asap (or refund you if preferred) as this is a PR nightmare already and they don't want extra attention.

    I would also nicely but firmly demand an upgrade, ie if you have 64gb for example, I'd say that I'd expect to be upgraded to the 128gb version to compensate for all the trouble this has put you through. Or something like that.

    Edit: changed numbers

    • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:10

      I'm actually happy just to go for a replacement and a screen protector to be honest. Just want replacement for what went missing that's all.

  • TrinhBrothers on 07/08/2015 - 15:25
    -2

    I got my first SLK dealing with Futu, they told me will get me Tesla if I can continue my famous Mitete bundle that I used to do in SUGAR

  • centrelink on 07/08/2015 - 16:01
    +6

    Such bullshit. I know for a fact my iPhone was stolen once a while ago. Went to the police and told exactly where it is based on the find my phone app..

    They told me it wasn't enough evidence to goto their house and ask for the phone. I told them I could even further prove it while they were there and gave them a loud and clear beeping noise if they needed.

    Told me to piss off.

    Lost my faith in the police force that day.. Never believe the law.. its fulla shit.

    • booerns on 07/08/2015 - 16:09
      +1

      Don't believe in the law, take the law. With a baseball bat.

    • oliman on 07/08/2015 - 16:13
      +4

      100% agree with you.

      I lost $65000 in a scam, had all the solid evidences to prove I was a victim of deception. Yet police declared it a CIVIL MATTER and asked me to hire a LAWYER and did not investigated anything.

      Few months later I talked to criminal lawyer and he was totally surprised after listening to my case and looking at all of my proofs that why police brushed me off???

      Sorry to say, but police dept is corrupt.

      We pay taxes and that money goes to fund Police also, yet get no help from them.

      • windrc on 07/08/2015 - 16:51
        +3

        no, taxes are to fund the helicopter rides

      • bargdebarg on 07/08/2015 - 16:56
        +2

        Which scam, details please

        • oliman on 07/08/2015 - 19:19
          +1

          Its a long story, in short, a guy involved multiple people in a scam of purchasing a existing running coffee shop, and 3 people (including myself) lost money in that after that guy disappeared with the money.

      • grasstown on 09/08/2015 - 10:26

        getting compensation and your money back are civil remedies. Civil matters are proven on balance of probabilities. If police prosecute a crime, remedies are a fine, imprisonment etc. proof in criminal matters is beyond reasonable doubt, a much higher threshold. your lawyer should've made it clear you get zero from a police prosecution, as police act in interest of community, not the victim, and the remedies reflect this.

        • oliman on 09/08/2015 - 12:28

          Yes you are right and I was not expecting money recovery also from criminal prosecution. I just wanted the justice t be served, but apparently police was not interested. So now a complaint about police through criminal lawyer is my last option which I will use soon.

        • grasstown on 09/08/2015 - 13:36
          +1

          @oliman: deception is difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt. A defendant can create doubt that someone else made the representation (eg on a website, email, letter) or that they believed the representation was true. I'm not sure what you wanted them to investigate, which witnesses you wanted them to speak to, but I suspect they knew from experience that they weren't going to be able to prove every element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt even after an investigation. Many fraud matters are successfully prosecuted because of written admissions on forms that an accused has signed/certified certain things as true which can be proven to be untrue (eg Centrelink eligibility and workers comp eligibility, or first homer grant eligibility). Without an admission, deception is very hard to prove.

    • Allan on 07/08/2015 - 20:12
      +1

      The police are just doing their job. Just like in my case, it's not up to them to get me a replacement or money back. It's all on me to do everything. Their job was to seize back the stolen items and further their investigation. I understand that. It really sucks they can't do much more than that as we're the little guys stuck in this bigger problem.

    • McFly on 08/08/2015 - 21:08

      There aren't enough police/funding for them to do their job.
      Sure, some are slackasses, others are just overworked, just like any workplace.
      Then, if they do catch a bad guy some dipstick judge gives them a slap on the wrist and back into society they go!
      But they didn't literally say 'piss off' did they?

  • k3nnis on 07/08/2015 - 16:45
    +4

    Guys, simple just buy from the apple store and be done :)

    • windrc on 07/08/2015 - 17:10

      you've got a point

  • ankor on 07/08/2015 - 17:12

    Today, i am that guy.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/its-a-steal.86075/

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