Wanted: Small, Harmless RADIOACTIVE Samples to Test GEIGER COUNTER (a Mobile-Accessory)

IVI on 03/05/2015 - 12:50

You may know that I'm passionate about "New Nukes"
(ie, LIQUID-FUEL Molten Salt Reactors) and Nuclear
Energy especially since SA announced a $20 Billion
PIVOT to a Nuclear Energy economy…

To respond to fear mongers (eg, AU's own Dr Helen
Caldicott, with whom I agree ONLY on Nuc.Weapons)
- & those who may buy-into her unscientific talks -
I want to be able to measure background radiation
(eg, outside & inside) using some modestly-priced
Geiger Counter accessories to eg Smart Phones and
tablets, into which they conveniently plug.

But - by way of doing some "due diligence" on the
low cost Geiger Counters, I'd like to find [buy],
of access [eg, at a Sci Lab or suppler] safe and
small samples, with known levels of radiation,
so I can check and (to some degree) calibrate my
little GC devices, using their app's, etc.

Ideally, a lab or sci equipment shop has BOTH the
sample(s) & some measuring device (reading out in
microSieverts, of some units that easily convert
to " ), whose readings I can compare to those of
my devices.

If no samples are available, I might begin with
some older watch-faces, which were (years ago)
painted with radioactive material (to enable
them to "glow in the dark" after being exposed
to light (allowing reading the time while the
glowing persists… a few minutes, maybe).

So, what have you got [to sell or lend]? Or…
where have you seen such samples [w/accurate GC's
near them]?

I'll be in Adelaide for some months, but, if it's
NOT illegal to post such samples, I can buy some
by post, from a reliable vendor.

TIA

Mobile

Comments

  • iridiumstem on 03/05/2015 - 12:56
    +3

    Just use banana and other naturally radioactive stuff? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

    • IVI on 03/05/2015 - 12:58

      Why didn't I ask earlier… I'd just bought 2 bananas (on special).

      So, what typical levels should I expect to measure [in microSieverts]?

      • iridiumstem on 03/05/2015 - 13:04
        +1

        Something very low but still higher than the natural level. If it can pick it up, I'd say your counter is extra extra sensitive.

        EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_XVRA5nD6M. From watching this, I have to say it's actually higher than I thought it might be.
        Why don't you just go to Woolies with your geiger counter and go to the fruit corner?

  • inherentchoice on 03/05/2015 - 12:57

    Just take it on a plane…

    https://youtu.be/TRL7o2kPqw0

    • iridiumstem on 03/05/2015 - 13:02
      +1

      I cannot imagine the horror/confusion the passengers would have when you pull out something like this. It would be funny if the geiger counter beeps as well.

      Though what you've said is completely valid and true. Higher the altitude, usually higher the radiation level.

      • IVI on 03/05/2015 - 13:06

        Phone's vol.cont can reduce it (as would earphones),
        & its app has a button to switch sound Off.

        • iridiumstem on 03/05/2015 - 13:09

          It was just my horrible imagination :)

    • IVI on 03/05/2015 - 13:04
      +1

      Excellent resource! Thanks! :-)

  • Bokoshi on 03/05/2015 - 13:48
    +6

    Your smoke detectors have a minute amount of Americium 241, you can pop the cover off it and check the radiation warning label for values.

    • IVI on 03/05/2015 - 21:17

      Good point!

      I happen to have an unmounted smoke detector on my microwave oven… ;-)

  • pjetson on 03/05/2015 - 17:48

    Do a google search for "how to test a geiger counter" and you'll find lots of handy hints and sources of radioactive materials.

    A search for "uranium glass" turns up a few items on eBay, some in Australia.

  • Bonsaichop on 03/05/2015 - 19:35

    Op shops might have older clocks with the correct radioactive paint. Old CRT televisions give off a significant amount of EMR, also Plasma Ball displays give off quite alot of EMR which the geiger counter will pick up.

    I know the last time I had a good play with my Geiger Counter was when I had to have a bone scan done, was injected with a radioactive dye (12 hr half life) when I got home the counter went off the scale!

    • IVI on 03/05/2015 - 21:21

      A surprise to me:

      • Smokers take-in quite a bit or radioactive material, with all the toxins that we hear more about

      ie, per the video I labeled "Excellent" above.

  • airzone on 04/05/2015 - 00:51

    tritium vials aren't hard to come by.

  • whatthecrappin on 04/05/2015 - 06:41

    I remember in high school the counter clicking very slowly due to background radiation. Then the physics teacher demonstrated the luminescent properties of his watc……it went nuts! He always knew it was radioactive so not sure why he ALWAYS wore it. His skin underneath it was a weird colour too…..I'm seriously hoping it was just tarnish, but he said it was due to radiation!

  • unclebill on 04/05/2015 - 09:12

    Am 241 in a neutron.. may not be picked up by your instrument…. the old hurricane lamp mantels do have a nuclear signature… about 10 will give you a good reading.. can get them at army disposal stores

  • Austhinker on 04/05/2015 - 13:37

    For someone who claims to be interested in nuclear science, you display a woeful lack of knowledge about how radium watches work!
    "If no samples are available, I might begin with some older watch-faces,
    which were (years ago)painted with radioactive material (to enable them
    to "glow in the dark" after being exposed to light (allowing reading
    the time while the glowing persists… a few minutes, maybe)."
    Radium watches glow in the dark continuously until the zinc sulphide phosphor wears out from radiation damage. They may glow more brightly for a short time after exposure to light, due to the light exciting the zinc sulphide, but their long term glow and radioactivity do not need light, as the radium radiates continuously with a half-life of 1600 years, exciting the zinc sulphide to glow.

    Only non-radioactive "glow in the dark" materials need light exposure to make them glow, and fade to virtually nothing after a few minutes to a few hours. From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium, "From the 1960s the use of radium paint was discontinued. In many cases luminous dials were implemented with non-radioactive fluorescent materials excited by light; such devices glow in the dark after exposure to light, but the glow fades."

    There is no known material which becomes radioactive on exposure to light.

    Whilst I agree with you that nuclear power can be safe if properly managed, unfortunately at our current level of "civilisation", the combination of big money, human error and ass-covering make nuclear power dangerous. For example, the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster could have been prevented if the operators had implemented a recommended safety upgrade.

    If nuclear power were safe then nuclear power plant operators would be able to get private insurance, instead of having to rely on government underwriting.

    • IVI on 08/05/2015 - 22:24

      Radium watch HowTo's I should have looked-up.

      NEW Nuclear Power you should, IMO, look up.

      For easy access to 20+ doco's via a very small app, try: "Thorium" remix.

      It's pretty comprehensive, moving from talks to expert interviews, Gov't lab tours, fear mongers (incl AU's pediatrician Dr Helen Caldicott), & some of the start-up (in Canada & USA) aiming to build MSR by ~2022, as I read them.

      I urge all OzB readers to study Nuclear Energy with "fresh eyes" as Safe, New, LIQUID-Fuel "nukes" (ie, Molten Salt Reactors… a.k.a. "MSRs") have impressed a lot of smart/knowledgeable people (who are NOT overly dependent on costly, fuel-inefficient, wasteful SOLID Fuel-Rod based Light Water Reactors (LWR) for their bread & butter…).

      Those in SA have a lot of good to look forward to, IMO, ie, if SA Gov't can AVOID GE-Hitachi's Fuel-Rod based IFR / PRISM "dinosaur" (IMO), & go straight to MSR's, like the WaMSR coming from MIT based start-up TransAtomic Power.

      WaMSR uses "spent" Fuel Rods' unused energy (it's like ~99.5% of what they started out holding) as its fuel.

      Big PROFITS from the need to replace costly Fuel-Rods, ~ every 18 months, explains why some folks "talk down" the cheaper-to-build / cheaper-to-run MSRs, that look to be getting built (in time) in factories, like big jets.

      Small, Truck-/Train-Transportable MSRs are the "Smartphones of Nuclear Energy" ;-)

      I don't think critics' words will stop MSRs, anymore than IBM could stop UNIX / Linux systems from grabbing market share from "Big Iron" mainframes.

  • Austhinker on 04/05/2015 - 14:00

    I've heard that Thorium reactors are intrinsically much safer, but there must be economic or political reasons why the industry hasn't explored that path.

    • IVI on 08/05/2015 - 22:40

      Looking to "broken" USA, political reasons arise from Lobbying & political donations by industries, I would guess. USA's NRC is said to have a "rules based" regulatory framework, that's geared to approving LWRs.

      (So, although MSRs run at pressures of ~ 1 Atmosphere, they may still need to build using 20 cm thick core vessels, needed by LWRs that run at 60 or over 100 Atmospheres of pressure… which I find crazy.

      I understand that, in USA, Canadian CanDU reactors don't win NRC approval…)

      Looking to "working" Canada, the Nuclear regulator seems to be more open to demonstrations of Safety, any good way you can design it in.

      Thinner-walled core vessels can be expected to duly win approval in Canada, since operating Pressures are so close to normal ambient pressures, like in my office.

  • backpaqer on 04/05/2015 - 18:34

    Smoke detectors are generally radioactive.

  • goosegog on 05/05/2015 - 16:30

    OMG - what's on T.V. tonight ? - anything with or without radiation would be more interesting than all this drivel from you all ! ( Negs. should be interesting now )

    • IVI on 08/05/2015 - 22:47

      Go ask the Kids & other people, who live near any of AU's Coal power stations how they're breathing these days…

      Didn't the (now-deceased) mayor of Port Augusta die of a lung disease, eg, 6 mon after her husband did the same?

      (Pt Augusta has SA's largest fossil fuel Power Station…)

      Go compare (mostly Nuclear Energy powered) France's lung-health records with AUs. Of course, AU has BANNED use of Nuclear Energy (in 1999).

      No one really has reason to consider AU's gov't of the day Smart, by any measure… and… Past is Prologue… but we can HOPE for Smart to win yet.

  • IVI on 09/05/2015 - 19:11

    I think I'm gonna have to "go to Russia" (as Ed Snowden did, a while ago), or at least send some of my meager funds there…

    To replace my mobile-accessory Geiger counter, I think I'll buy a stand-alone unit from a company, in Russia, that has good prices & Free Int'l shipping… not to mention INNOVATIVE multifunction designs & "sets" (buy 2 slightly different units & save).

    Eg, Nuclear radiation meter with nitrate tester (for foods)

    A set of units, one like the above, the other measures EMF (RF from transmitters).

    Also, cases are of modern designs, & functionality has come a long way, Bubula, from the 1960's Gov't-issue units in bright-yellow steel boxes.

    Their highest price is ~$1,300 (w/ Bluetooth) for the Pro market, but they start far below that amount.

    (I think you can find them on Amazon, but I doubt the S+H is Free there, ie, for non-US residents.)

    PS Anyone remember "The Farm" in Summertown, TN (from the 1960's days of Communal Living)? Well, among they surviving businesses: Geiger counters, & other high tech Electronics.

    Maybe China & Israel (with their Kibbutzim) have something there, after all… Surely, I jest. ;-)

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