Getting sued by SEEK.com.au - Advice

Associatedseekestate @ seek.estate on 02/04/2015 - 17:13

Hi

There is an old axiom on the internet that "you never really matter until someone decides it's worthwhile suing you"

Today that has happened to me.

In my spare time I run a hobby website. SEEK.com.au wants to take me down because the URL contains seek in the title. A copy of the legal letter is available here: http://seek.estate/sue.pdf

My current situation:

My website which generates little to no revenue. I have already declared as a foot note on the website in every single page in bold letters. "We are not affiliated with SEEK Limited" so noone is confused regarding the ownership and our logos are completely different.

"seek" is a common word in the English language which has been in use since biblical times, eg. Matthew 7:7-8 KJV seek, and ye: shall find

Seek's trademark and business clearly relate to Paid advertising in the Jobs market in Australia. My website offers a Free information service for Real Estate buyers in Au and NZ and in no way seeks to compete with Seek in any way and/or use their brand's goodwill.

I'm just after some advice as to what I can do. I like my website, I don't want to lose it to a AUD 6 billion corporation because they think they own a common English language word and can just bully me into the ground.

Internet

Related Stores

seek.estate
seek.estate

Comments

  • djones145 on 02/04/2015 - 17:43
    +10

    spell it seeek, people will still get it

    • shamid202 on 04/04/2015 - 22:15
      +2

      first of all, what ever you do, do not sign that papare

  • mrrizzle on 02/04/2015 - 18:10
    +4

    Have a JavaScript pop up disclaimer stating that you aren't affiliated with seek.com when a user loads your homepage for the first time. It's very easy to code

    Not ideal, but it's better than a law suit

    • Tuttorix on 03/04/2015 - 15:09
      -5

      I like this idea. I've done JavaScript pop ups before, they're really easy. Arrays and Floats FTW.

    • Gina Rinehart on 04/04/2015 - 03:26
      +11

      This will NOT make the lawsuit go away…

      • ItsMeAgro on 06/04/2015 - 09:29
        +2

        …plus it will be really annoying. Worst of both worlds.

  • Ughhh on 02/04/2015 - 18:15
    +3

    If it was seekestate without the dot in the middle, I think it would ok. But with the dot, I can see how some non tech savvy may get a little confused.

    • centrelink on 04/04/2015 - 13:30

      Probably better to use that as well..

  • mskeggs on 02/04/2015 - 18:51
    +28

    Regardless of what Seek does for a business, they have a trademark for the name seek for online classifieds. You have an online classifieds site with seek in the name. I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you have any hope of prevailing, as it is so blatant.
    Since your site is a hobby, I don't think there is much point hiring a lawyer to tell you the same. My best suggestion is to rename the site look4real.estate or similar. If you write a very nice letter asking to have 3 months to redirect visitors to your old site to the new one they might agree.
    If you do nothing, they can take you to court, where you then must defend yourself or risk a default judgement which will include you having to pay their lawyers fees, which will be thousands of dollars.

    Please note the three posts before mine are all inadequate and will still have you subject to a law suit, it is really black and white how these things go and none of those suggestions will stop seek from believing you are infringing on their trademark.

    • davedrastic on 04/04/2015 - 22:12
      +2

      You're right, but it doesn't matter in any case.

      Even OP was completely in the right, which personally I doubt (given that I just saw seekestate free calls or something and immediately thought, SEEK has a mobile service?) - but even if he is in the right, all SEEK need to do is push you until your credit card breaks. They can do that all day long.

      So can any other big business.

      OP has already lost, and frankly made a mistake in choosing the name.

      OP has one sensible option. Take it on the chin. Change your business name and move on.

      If you challenge this you will be throwing your life away. Or certainly your money.

  • mini2 on 02/04/2015 - 19:32
    +1

    Passing off, that's what it is.

  • Nilfunds on 02/04/2015 - 19:43
    +6

    all valid points, but

    i wouldnt do anything at this stage, NOTHING,

    the letter from Seek states that they can seek and obtain a court order to force you to stop using your domain,
    let them do this and if that happens then you need to take action.

    as things stand now, no action is required on your part. (except to post here) :)

    just my 5 cents

    • mskeggs on 02/04/2015 - 20:01
      +9

      The court order could include an award of costs against you. They have written several times, so I think you are taking a considerable risk if you ignore it further.

      • Nilfunds on 02/04/2015 - 20:18
        +2

        you have a good point, i agree..

        but my opinion is still that it's for the court to decide not Seek if said domain is an infringement or not,

        personally i do not think this is as blatant as some people claim.

        you know… if you think about the details, and i have a feeling this might be true. they can only pass on court costs to you AFTER the court decided it was an infringement, costs prior to this verdict can not be awarded to you.
        just seems like common sense to me.

        • hayne on 05/04/2015 - 01:02

          What? Where did you get your opinion on costs from? Not sure how that's common sense. The point of costs is that if a party is determined to be in the wrong, the other party should be compensated for their costs incurred in pursuing an action.

          If you have costs awarded against you, it will be legal costs incurred related to the "event", i.e. all legal fees related to this specific action taken against you.

        • Daabido on 05/04/2015 - 02:02

          @hayne:

          Well in reality it is rarely "all" legal fees, but I concur with your point.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 10:36
      +1

      So wait until they file proceedings (which they will do) - and then the original poster will have his own legal fees to pay to make it go away and potentially the costs of Seek.

      You can't ignore a letter like this - either get your own lawyer to write back defending the matter - or sign the undertakings.

      • Nilfunds on 03/04/2015 - 11:57
        -3

        no,not really.
        when they do get a court injunction you have the option to follow the court order?

        i could be wrong, not a lawyer, but its clear the letter is aimed to intimidate and not much else at this point

        • davedrastic on 04/04/2015 - 22:15
          +1

          Not a lawyer, but aren't most letters of this kind meant to intimidate.

          Just because it's intimidating doesn't mean there isn't legal weight behind it.

          SEEK, and their lawyers, are just seeking to get this issue sorted. They have no wish to destroy this guys life. But they will if he doesn't comply.

          If they can scare him off now, then great. Saves the client legal action.

    • dlakers3peat on 03/04/2015 - 18:08

      Yeah i agree. Like they say tell it the judge. The only thing of concern is court costs. If magistrate finds in their favour you might be made to pay for seeks legal council which undoubtedly be thousands of dollars.

  • rgr on 02/04/2015 - 19:48

    To the OP,

    You have a great idea brewing here. I hope you end up turning it into a large name business in the future. Too many middle men and fees involved with selling properties. I'm sure you'll be ok with this legal case and find a way around it.

    • davedrastic on 04/04/2015 - 22:19
      +1

      If he does have a great business idea he should concentrate on that, and this whole Seek nonsense will detract from that massively.

      For the sake of your finances, your sanity and your business, let Seek win. Even if they are in the wrong.

      There is no rewards for being a destroyed martyr.

      No one cares about this other than OP. I don't mean that in a mean way. It's just how shit is. I've personally tried to tackle big business on a point of principle, I was 1000% in the right, it was a nationwide issue - and if I had pursued I would have been destroyed. I'm so glad I bailed.

      I'd prefer it if society was more supportive to the little guy, to the general public. I'd prefer it is big business was subject to the laws of the land - but seemingly they're not (entirely). OP cannot change that. None of us can.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2015 - 19:48
    +13

    the letter from Seek states that they can seek and obtain a court order

    see the irony

  • chill on 02/04/2015 - 20:06
    +1

    Today that has happened to me.

    Not according to the dates on the document.

  • Lysander on 02/04/2015 - 20:11
    +35

    Don't have the time to answer this in detail but:

    • I don't think that the case is straightforward for SEEK as it can be argued that their trademark is for services which are different to those you offer (paid vs unpaid)
    • you have made clear (although you should use a pop up and make it clearer) you are not affiliated with them
    • you are in real estate business while they are in the employment business
    • they could have secured this domain a long time ago if they were in this business
    • check the Google Adword cases which could be useful for your arguments

    In any case, find out if there a free legal IP clinic anywhere (check unis) and go and see them. They are staffed by lawyers and are free.

    If you were in Brisbane (and I had the time) I could possibly help you and/or point you to an IP clinic/free legal service but in Victoria I have no idea.

    Also, be clear: having to transfer or give up domain is one thing, and damages for trade mark infringement are a separate thing.

    One last cheeky piece of advice: have the domain transferred to registrar and hoster in Europe - it will be much harder for Seek to do anything given data protection laws and different freedom of speech and trademark laws there. Also, seek will not have a trademark in UK for example, so if you open it up to the UK, you can argue Australia is not necessarily target audience. It is not your fault Australia also has English as its language.

    • Nilfunds on 02/04/2015 - 20:14
      +6

      love your last paragraph, good one mate!

    • Associatedseekestate @ seek.estate on 02/04/2015 - 20:23
      +13

      Thanks Lysander

      I already have www.buyday.co.uk a similar website for Ireland.

      I'm going to transfer all the webhosts over and see how it goes.

      I'll buy you a beer next time I'm in Brissie. :)

      • Marrk on 03/04/2015 - 15:57

        That is very good advice from Lysander, I would also look into whether it is possible to hide your registrant contact information from the domain, as it is all currently publicly available. Not sure how this works with .estate domain names.

        http://who.is/whois/seek.estate

        • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 20:36
          -1

          hide your registrant contact information from the domain

          What would be the point in that?

  • Gravy on 02/04/2015 - 21:01
    +1

    That's a real bummer, thankfully its not generating much revenue but I expect its taken you some time and effort to get it to the stage it is now.

    Since its not actually an Aussie domain name, perhaps a way around this might be to reinvent seek.estate as something other than a website that is readily categorised as class 35 and aimed at Australia (advertising services) and then simply have an obvious link on the reinvented site to a clone of your existing site but under a new domain name. Or else perhaps create an immediate redirect to another domain whenever someone taps in seek.estate

    Maybe you could still have seek.estate as a US centred advertising service in the same vein as the Aussie idea, and have a link off to an Aussie arm that is registered under a different domain name. However, its highly likely that Seek may also be trademarked in the US, even if its not by the same company as in Australia so you may come up against opposition again if its in a similar class.

    Also not a lawyer so advice above could be bad.

    Edit: By the way, with regards to your comment "they think they own a common English language word and can just bully me into the ground."… the reality is that they dont just think they own it, they actually DO own it with regards to its use in Australia under certain circumstances, however much we agree that sucks, its still IP law. Companies like this are also obliged to be bullies otherwise they risk losing rights to their trademarks, that's just the way it is.

  • robotdad on 02/04/2015 - 21:25
    +4

    Give it up. Seek have acted appropriately and your use of the seek mark is within the scope of the seek trade mark registrations. Seek have a very solid legal position under the trade marks act, with ACC Act/common law passing-off as suitable backups. Trade mark rights will likely trump anything you come up with unless you can show that your useage predates Seek, which I doubt.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 10:43
      +3

      It's funny how this website works- popular thinking versus correct advice. Robotdat has given correct advice.

      • robotdad on 03/04/2015 - 13:07
        +2

        Why thank you rpro! I may have had relevant training and a registration behind that advice, but I could never hold it out as advice here, nor receive payment for it ;)

  • scotty on 02/04/2015 - 22:11
    +11

    I don't want to lose it to a AUD 6 billion corporation because they think they own a common English language word

    That's more a problem of trademark office allowing them to trademark the term SEEK in those categories. However as @mskeggs stated — it's probably not worthwhile putting up a fight if it's just your hobby project. Even if you wish to engage a battle with that corporation, seeking legal advice on OzBargain (rather than lawyers) might not be a good idea.

  • dealman on 02/04/2015 - 23:30

    Deleted…

  • Davo1111 on 03/04/2015 - 00:41
    +1

    I agree with what scotty said, they will shit on you with a bucket of money in lawyers.

  • plowry1977 on 03/04/2015 - 08:17

    My mate had a similar issue with Red Cross threatening legal action if they didn't take a red cross off the company logo. Cant remember details but i coukd ask, but do know they changed the logo

  • PJC on 03/04/2015 - 10:11

    Just change it to seekingestate. They didn't trademark a verb.

  • DonnieDarko on 03/04/2015 - 10:40

    Change your last name by deed poll to "Seek". You can operate a business under your own name

    • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 16:44

      But you still can't infringe a trademark.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 10:40
    +1

    This is a hobby for you. Do you have significant money (ie $100,000) and time to defend Federal Court proceedings? I appreciate that this is a website you designed and set up - but seriously how hard is it for you to change the name to something that doesn't infringe someone else's trademark? You are sleep walking in to a train wreck and if you haven't already got legal advice from an IP lawyer you should do so quickly or sign the undertakings pronto.

    • tc4101 on 05/04/2015 - 22:10

      Well he can go to court himself and defend it. So no need for lawyer or se.

  • DelhiBelly on 03/04/2015 - 11:25
    +1

    Seek does have a realestate presence under the name SeekCommercial.com.au

    So assuming that they are just an online job ad website might prove costly.

  • Charity on 03/04/2015 - 13:00

    Firstly, great post. Very interesting.

    Seek.com.au definitely had some foresight. (MUCH MORE than IP Austrlia for granting them a trademark of a generic dictionary word directly associated with classifieds)

    IP Aust obviously thought the internet was a child's toy when they granted that. Extremely doubtful they could do that today. I can see a case for granting the 2nd employment classifieds class, but to grant classifieds - wow. Just wow!

    Having said that, they both seem to be class 35… which leads me to say… is this actually the case - or is it their lawyers being lavish with their interpretation.

    If it is the case, the fight is really with IP Aust. I wish I won the $30 million powerball last night to help you.

    BTW, No need to put pop-ups adverts. They don't deserve the free advertising.

    Whether you are, or are not, infringing on their extraordinarily-broad trademark, disclaimers won't make a difference. They could be viewed as an acknowledgement of "their TM".

  • dylanando on 03/04/2015 - 13:18

    change your domain to seekreal.estate :P

  • Cheap Steve on 03/04/2015 - 14:33
    +4

    IMO seek.estate is not a very catchy or clear name for your business and seek.com are doing you a favour to make you change. I don't have an alternative name but surely a clever Ozbargainer can help you. I do think you have a good concept.

    • gimli on 03/04/2015 - 19:57

      maybe we should change this post into a poll for names.

  • peterw1 on 03/04/2015 - 15:11
    +2

    I shall recommend to the religious order sikh.com.au that seek is infringing on their religious freedom by using an inappropriate sounding name that they use for employment.

  • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 16:25
    +4

    "seek" is a common word in the English language which has been in use since biblical times, eg. Matthew 7:7-8 KJV seek, and ye: shall find

    You do realise that the bible wasn't written in English, right? What you quote was only written a couple of hundred years ago.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 16:49

      It was 16th century. But still, hardly biblical times.

      And if memory serves the church considered it blasphemy when it was translated to English. There was a guy who was Sainted in part because he burned the English translator at the stake.

      Google says… yup, this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_More had this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale strangled while on the stake then burned.

      And the King James was early 17th century.

  • tohara on 03/04/2015 - 17:13

    Regardless of what you think is right chances are Seek has dealt with this on many occasions. If you try to fight it they will bully you with filings, paper work and eventually court appearances. Despite your views the legal system isn't always just - its more often about who has more money and timde.

  • truongster on 03/04/2015 - 18:03

    I'm assuming they are preparing to take on the real estate market like domain and real estate.com.
    They might want to "reserve" seekestate as their new name thus the action.

    If they haven't started, and you can prove that your business is not creating public confusion on your affiliation with seek then it is likely you can retain the name.

    BUT.

    In this case seek has other branches, seek learning, seek commercial and seek volunteer. Probably think they would argue that seek estate may be confusing.

    • euk on 03/04/2015 - 18:21
      +1

      In that case, take the site down but keep the domain name. They might want to buy it, and the OP can make some money out of it.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 18:44
    -1

    Op, You DONT NEED TO DO ANYTHING
    Dont let seek agents fool you, you are good, dont give it up to seek bully
    There are billions websites out there and the number of names limited so most of them maybe 99% have some exact parts but only those using very rare names like wd4e-34.co.uk,
    It is like amazon sues some environment related website about amazon, or microsoft sues any website uses soft!
    its ridiculous that seek lost cases before and they are still doing it, it is your time to make them cough up some money by suing them for bully and ask for compensation that caused to you.
    I am 100% sure you will win without spending a cent.

    • centrelink on 04/04/2015 - 13:36
      +1

      Well, lets see you may say this but the truth is seek will probably have the upperhand. They have the money and power to bankrupt anyone. Going up against a corp company is ballsy but extremely risky. Piss off the wrong person and they can sue you until you live on the street. Regardless if you win, they will force you to obtain a lawyer and BOOM money down the drain..

      If you win, you just keep the site name that makes little to no money but spend tons and tons of money on laywers and fees. They can also make up excuses on the fly to force you to keep using a laywer (ie: Pay more fees). You lose then it is even worse and perhaps you can pay for damages as well.

      So practically in either case the OP may just lose out on both situations and force you out on the street looking for a new job (ironic ey?). Without money and power it is very difficult to stand up to the evil foes.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2015 - 14:24
        -2

        no lawyer no money needed.
        Op is good.
        We have justice in Australia, Op can represent himself and sue them, even if he loses, which never happens, you know what, he won't lose so thats it.

        • centrelink on 04/04/2015 - 15:11
          +1

          "Justice in Australia"…

          lol

        • Logical on 04/04/2015 - 23:09

          the law is corrupt in AU… money rules, seek have money to burn and OP doesn't. OP needs to action immediately or otherwise pay up big time.

        • hayne on 05/04/2015 - 01:07

          and he can also pay costs if the court finds against him

        • leiiv on 05/04/2015 - 17:27
          +1

          @Logical: The law is corrupt everywhere. Tell me just one country where the law is just and protect the poor.. If you don't have money, you need the brain, and a really cunning one.

  • sagrules on 03/04/2015 - 18:46

    Look up previous cases like this and their resolutions.

    I am sure this happened before.

    If you find a precedent you will have the ground

  • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 18:48

    Seek will not buy the domain name - if they want it, they will ask the court to assign it to them.

    Seek have a valid trademark covering the type of business that the OP is running. This can only end one way, and it won't come down on the OP's side.

    The OP has two choices - sign the letter, or pay a lot in court.

    • kenm on 03/04/2015 - 20:55
      +1

      An Australian court would have no power to order a foreign domain name registrar to do anything. Also won't be able to order OP to assign it to somebody else if it is transferred now to a foreign entity.

      • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 22:03

        I think you're grasping at straws here. Firstly, the court would not be ordering a foreign registrar to do anything, they'd be ordering an Australian in Australia to do something.

        And which "foreign entity" is the OP going to transfer the domain name to? As far as I can tell by what has been posted here, the OP is running a business more or less a hobby. How does he have a "foreign entity" for a hobby business?

        And I think you might be surprised at what an Australian court can do if an Australian in Australia is trying to get around the law.

        • kenm on 04/04/2015 - 10:01

          No I wouldn't be surprised. That's why I say 'foreign entity,' whether that is an natural person or a company.

          OP also does business outside Australia so incorporating outside doesn't seem particularly far fetched to me.

  • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 18:50

    Seek's trademark and business clearly relate to Paid advertising in the Jobs market in Australia

    That's not what the letter says. Seek's trademark is in relation to classified advertising, and on that basis, you are certainly infringing their trademark.

  • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 19:14

    You will have to change your domain and business name, so in the spirit of being constructive, so here are my suggestions.

    In a quick search, explore.estate is the only "seek synonym" domain name I've found that isn't already registered.

    adverts.estate is also available, but it's very expensive. bargain.estate is even more expensive! If you need to ask how must list.estate is, you can't afford it.

    How about display.estate?

  • porsche26c on 03/04/2015 - 19:17

    like the post on the top said, change to seeekestate. keep seekestate and just port forward to your new website.

    • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 20:20

      The intent behind that would be so transparent that it'd just make the legal situation worse.

  • BlackV8SS on 03/04/2015 - 19:21
    -1

    Here's a similar story where a company who's ego is stronger than their common sense (Red Bull) tried to sue a Brewery over the word: Red…

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/small-business/an-ox-is-a-cas…

    Enjoy!

    PS: My opinion would be to let them sue you. See how far they get saying they own the word SEEK and nobody else can use it, lol.

    • pjetson on 03/04/2015 - 20:27

      That's hardly a similar story. And they didn't try to sue over the use of the word Red.

      Seek is not saying that they own the word, simply that they have registered it as a trademark for classified advertising. That means that unless Seek agrees, no-one else can use their trademark in classified advertising. Outside that field, the word seek may not be a trademark.

      The OP is using the term seek in their classified advertising business. Seek Limited has a trademark for the term seek in classified advertising. It's pretty clear cut to me how a trip to court will pan out, and yet you recommend it?

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 21:33
    -1

    OP you are going to be rich!
    thats what you do;
    Nothing!
    that name and domain and related business belong to you and that other company that has the same name and seek will start paying your copyright should seek anytime enters real estate business. just register all related domains and expand the business. just ignore them until they come up to negotiate about how much they pay you without doing anything you are going to be rich! sure you can sue them for bully and compensation too.

  • KaTst3R on 03/04/2015 - 22:16

    Is the trademark only in effect in Australia ? I'm just curious if a foreign entity uses seek as part of its domain name, will it run into similar issues as OP

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 22:42

    Consult a lawyer. Preferably a friend lawyer who won't just tell you what you want to hear to get you to pay for their services.

    As best as I can tell you haven't been sued. You've been notified of a perceived infraction that might be in some way actionable at some point.

    My opinion is that if they genuinely perceived you as a threat to their trademark they wouldn't bother with this "we'll give you 60 days" bollocks they'd simply file suit with the relevant court and make it official. And even then it could still just be an intimidation tactic.

    Consult a lawyer.

  • cheatGPT on 03/04/2015 - 22:49

    Go get a trade mark: seek.estate

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2015 - 23:04
    +1

    Seems like a battle not worth fighting to be honest, especially for a hobby site. Unless you have deep pockets.

  • anonymous8 on 04/04/2015 - 05:46

    The problem with big organizations is there are lots of people on the payroll that need to look like they are doing something. Basically its someone going through the motions making it look like they are doing something productive.

  • Lysander on 04/04/2015 - 13:01
    +16

    I think there are a couple of things that need to be clarified here as it really irks me how obedient people are to a piece of paper written by a company person, merely on the basis it originates from a company.

    1. A company (and their employees and lawyers) acts in its best interest. It will only give the interpretation favourable to it. It will only tell you facts favourable to it. It will NOT tell you anything which would be helpful to your case.
      Therefore, just because a letter from seek states this or that, does not make it necessarily true or correct.
      I give you an example: the Good Guys game disaster when the company insisted the people who bought games and did not receive them as they allegedly could not get hold of them, have to accept a refund - that was incorrect and actually infringing Australian contract law. Yet TGG never told its customers that but kept that info secret so customers could be bullied into accepting its "generous offer". I am sure there were people who fought and got what they wanted. I am not saying what they claim is necessarily wrong but don't take their word for it. Check for yourself as often bullying tactics are used.

    2. If you really want to keep the domain, here is what you could do/consider:

    • taking action to have their trademark revoked under s 84A of the Trademark Act 1995. Once you have filed such an application to the court I assure you that Seek will become very active as that is life-threatening to their business. Of course, your chances of successful of getting it revoked do not seem to be too bad in my humble opinion as (a) the word they trademarked is very generic, and (b) the class is too broad and generic. Alternatively, an application for amendment of classes could be filed (rectification).

    • try to negotiate with them. However, in my experience many in-house lawyers are pretty bull-headed and full of themselves so this is unlikely to be very successful.

    • transfer everything abroad, including domain control to a friend who is not in Australia. It would be very hard for Seek to do anything then and they might me more amenable to a friendly negotiation or settlement.

    • make the site international or even claim it is mainly directed at the US and the UK with Australia just being ancillary. You need the entries to back it up, in other words, Australian classifieds cannot make up bulk of the classifieds on the site to make your claim credible.

    • you could get a new domain for your business, and then turn seek.estate into a free speech/commenting/review/experience site where people could voice their content or discontent with Seek and its services provided. You have to make sure you put a solid disclaimer there. That way, Seek could not apply to have your domain transferred or deleted as it falls into a very separate class. However, that way they might still want to buy it from you in order to silence criticism or bad reviews in which case you could get some compensation for the hassle they are giving you now.

    • if Seek wants your domain, they will likely apply to auDRP/auDa (the Australian entity doing ICANN work, generally speaking) to do so as it is faster and cheaper. Courts are only a last resort.

    • you might want to have a look at sections 87, 151, and 88 of the Trademark Act 1995 - they all deal with cancellation or amendment of trademarks or punishments for claiming to have a trademark when that is not true. If you do register a business under Seekestate and then use the domain you have you might actually be fine. Please look at cases dealing with trademark infringement in relation to the use of Google Adwords - they are relevant and will give you an idea of how a court might decide. Alternatively, if you have a different domain, you could think about buying seek.estate or seekestate as an Adword as different rules might apply there as you will find out from those cases (check ACCC v Google I think).

    But the most important piece of advice is: find yourself some (preferably free) local legal advice on this matter, being honest and giving them all the info. Most people here are not legally qualified (and in fact might put themselves into hot water by saying anything legally relevant as that could constitute legal advice which is punishable by law and is pursued by the Law Societies. Don't believe me:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/tyre-king-bob-jan…

    http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/news/16209-legal-watchdog-pu…

    (Before anybody puts a comment: would I say this if it applied to me due to lack of relevant qualifications??!!!)

    • h4zey on 04/04/2015 - 20:41
      +3

      I log in just to vote you up :)

    • blitz on 05/04/2015 - 18:56

      That's OzBargain Hall of Fame material, that.

  • CacheHunter on 04/04/2015 - 18:27

    If you're running a business I Australia using anything other than your personal name our company name, you must have a registered business name. Rules for business names are published on the ASIC web site.

    'Seek' isn't permitted - see https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landi…

    Seek Ltd and those with registered variants can use those variants. I suggest you use a different name and consider whether to register your business name, which would give you some degree of protection.

  • SpaceNinja on 04/04/2015 - 18:55

    I will say this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, I mean people dream for letters like these from companies like Seek, ok I might have exaggerated a bit but here is what I think you should do:

    Reply back thanking them for their attention and write a very funny reply; I mean it has to be mental, insane. After that also post that reply on social media like Facebook, Twitter etc. And then watch, if its witty and well written, It will go viral in no time, bringing you invaluable exposure and traffic.
    Obligatory Disclaimer: You can't sue me if things go pear shaped. This is not a legal advice, its recommended to seek proper advice from a licensed professional. Good luck friend :)

  • subywagon on 04/04/2015 - 20:03
    +4

    Tell them you'll sell the domain to them for, ONE MILLION DOLLARS! MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAAARRR!

  • Wallyt99 on 04/04/2015 - 20:13

    In my view - at this stage people would be unlikely to confuse you with 'Seek' but what about in the future?

    As such I think its best to transfer the site to a new name. Then use the domain for some other purpose to see if you cant get them to buy it off you! (perhaps your plan all along?)

  • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2015 - 21:21

    Whatever you do, don't sign the letter.

    You comply with their request even if you don't sign the letter.

    If it ever gets to court, you have already agreed not to compete, so game over for you.

    I am not a lawyer, but have some experience with trademarks.

  • shamid202 on 04/04/2015 - 22:14
    +1

    well i will remember if anyone used word "ASS" in their business or whatever i can sue them because ive got one in my pant

  • kwv42 on 04/04/2015 - 23:32

    So what some are saying, Seek has a trade mark on the word 'Seek' and others cannot use in their business name say seek.org or Cadbury over the colour purple?
    http://ipwhiteboard.com.au/nestle-wins-latest-battle-with-ca…

  • mohan76 on 04/04/2015 - 23:51

    You may try to register Seek Estate as trademark

    Few Trademarks with "seek" has been awarded after Seek Registration

    http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.sho…
    http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.sho…

  • leiiv on 04/04/2015 - 23:55

    OP, is it possible for you to change the type of your website from classified advertisement into others, for example, search engine or forums? Obviously it will involve redesign of the website and some smart tricks to transform functionality in subtle ways.

  • kaos on 05/04/2015 - 11:46

    Seek are legally required to defend their trademark which is why they are after you.
    You would probably win a court case because your business is substantially different.

    However, you are screwed because you say you have no money to run the case.

    Under these circumstances you should simply change the name of your business BUT

    You should write to Seek and say to them that you are willing to consider a name change but that you have calculated the cost at $$

    Include a breakdown of these costs. They might simply send you a cheque.

    It might sound dumb but I've seen this work before- the same people who will spend heaps to search and destroy other companies will pay up to simply make a problem go away.

  • Boombadaboom on 05/04/2015 - 19:53

    Your domain is obviously seek.estate obviously different from seek.com or even seek.com.au
    What next? Sue your neighboring business address because it has the same street name though different number?

    Unless they have trademarked/copyrighted/pantented/invented the word "seek" they can't do anything about it especially as you are not in anyway even suggesting/implying any affiliation/impersonation of the said seek.com.au

    Technically you're not doing anything wrong. If they thought your "seek" is taking on their "Seek" clearly their staff needs to lean more IT lesson about domain name structures etc.

    Though if you are thinking of changing it you can do '.seekestate."whatever"'?

  • Topdog on 05/04/2015 - 20:29
    -5

    shit site anyway close it down

    • kwv42 on 07/04/2015 - 00:07

      So "topdog" what time frame well it be, before we see a better site from you?

  • garage sale on 06/04/2015 - 08:02

    Change your web site name, trademarks can be an issue as they are also weighted by who was actively using them first.

    Keep the domains, getting domains registered is easy if you can get , or have already, the business name registered (has been checked that your name and line of work doesn't clash done by state governments)

    Get the domains redirected to your new name, so even if people get the url wrong, they still get sent to your site, and you can call your web site whatever you like

    new site seekestate.com.au

    redirected from seek.com.au, seek.estate.com.au, seek.estate.net.au, seek.org.au,,etc.

    Domain names are cheap about $10 per annum at places like ventraip

    People make a living buying like sounding names and redirecting them when people make typos, and selling like services.

  • illumination on 09/04/2015 - 11:50

    Sorry I don't have much input for your legal battle, but nice website/concept.

  • jpl on 20/04/2015 - 13:34

    did a search for seek trademarks suggested by @mohan76 , you will be amazed how many other seek word related trademarks around

    1. 1044407 Seek Truth 14, 18, 25 Registered
    2. 970288 seekfinance 36 Registered
      Registered/Protected
    3. 973784 seekrealestate 36 Registered
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