Received this coupon code discount in my inbox. CMI is celebrating Australia Day by giving away a special discount coupon— which expires at midnight tomorrow.
Use the following coupon code at checkout when you shop at creation.com/store
So if they paid tax you'd consider buying from these creationists?
I wish of our genuine Science courses, schools, uni's, etc. could -stretch- their budgets, eg, with Tax Exempt status…
BTW, some scientists have begun openly criticising Creationist for harming Science & Sci Educ.
People pay for this?
Creation Ministries International (CMI) is a non-profit young Earth creationist organisation of autonomous Creationist apologetics ministries that promote a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis Wikipedia
There are markets for all kinds of quackery. In this case they want people to pay to educationally handicap their own children. Unbelievable.
Given there is no eternity, that sucks for your kid.
How do you know that? I'm 32 and my faith in my faith in Jesus has been the biggest blessing to my life. I say this with absolute respect,at least seek God, you might just find him.
@lukeyluke:
Community, compassion, hope, self-reflection, insight, all of these can exist without needing to believe in a fairytale (with the specifics of the fairytale being based on where you were born and who to).
I find it sad that people feel the need to believe in these fairytales to get these things. And attempts to repress science, education and progress, because of a blind, literal interpretation of a fairytale does nothing but harm.
If you believe that the book of Genesis should be taken literally, what about Leviticus?
http://www.christianitydisproved.com/bible/obsolete-bible-ve…
Not sure what to reply, just seems cruel to rip into someone's belief system like you just did. For me its real, for you not.
@lukeyluke:
The trouble with this fundamentalist belief, is it must negate others beliefs & scientific thought.
Other ways of thinking can't coexist, so Science must go in favour of a belief that makes you feel better & secure.
Give me doubt, the basis of Science.
That's offensive, I'd rather handicap my Childs education, than handicap their eternity!
And that right there folks ^^^, is the root of the problem.
So, where is it written, that Life is all about Your Comfort?
I really doubt it helps any of the poor in this Real World, to know that you are comfortable.
I would rather let my Kids have an unbiased Say about their Future.
What if your Kids wanted to Study real Science, eg, Physics.
Why shield them from a way of thinking, that has contributed so much to giving you Comfort?
Quackery? Their articles, books and media come from a large global team of PhD scientists and graduates of secular universities.
They would argue that the alternative world-view of goo-to-you-via-the-zoo is actually the handicap and that there is a direct link to violence in the public school system including just recently in the news.
Thanks for the links to more of your fundamentalist propaganda from CMI. Always keep pushing it out. I think that's what a lot of the material in this deal says you should do. That's why I am opposed to it.
It's amazing what religious beliefs will make you think.
Ah, so teaching evolution causes high school massacres. I always thought issues related to childhood trauma and gun control were involved, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Here come the internet police to save the day!
large global team of PhD scientists and graduates of secular universities.
Appeal to authority.
They would argue that the alternative world-view
begging the question.
direct link to violence in the public school system including just recently in the news.
cherry picking.
Carry on peaceful citizens!
@kr0nix:
All was peaceful with the world before Darwin invented Evolution!
(Trust me, it's a fact. Honest.)
And you can't spell Evolution without "E-V-I-L". (Proof positive. Take that Science!)
@scrawny: Their first priority as listed in their Statement of Faith (About Us section):
"The scientific aspects of creation are important, but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer and Judge."
And the last statement:
"… no interpretation of facts in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. "
So much for their university degrees huh?
Basically what they mean is; anything you say that is contrary to my religious beliefs is wrong.
What hope is there of having a reasonable debate/discussion with anyone who subscribes to this way of thinking?
Debating and questioning the biblical narrative is welcomed by any and all bible-believing Christian ministries and proponents that I know of. The bible holds its believers to the highest moral standards of telling the truth, not deceiving people and not telling lies. It also says to prove all things and hold on to the good. So the bible itself would fall under that category of "all". Try sending them a question using the contact page if you like and you should get a response.
I think you miss the point of their statement of faith. It is basically saying that this is how they interpret the facts. This is their world-view. Facts do not speak for themselves. They must be interpreted according to a paradigm. They take the biblical narrative as being accurate in its accounts of history and thus they interpret the facts according to that narrative. The bible, in essence, is CMI's authority. If the interpretation contradicts the bible then it is invalid and does not fall under their world-view. For instance, they would take a from-design approach. Whereas evolution takes a no-design; random chance + lots of time approach.
@tanabe88gg:
Actually if you went to see 3 specialists and they told you that you have terminal cancer and will die and you tell someone will they negate what you said as an "appeal to authority"?
People consider creationists are anti science morons and if they knew that many are contributing and qualified scientists this point would not have to be raised at all. So there is real context and need to mention this point to assist people's misinformed opinions.
I see that like the other neggers you don't provide any real scientific arguments just emotional hype.
People consider creationists are anti science morons
Where do they get this idea from? Dan_ posted this two posts up.
"… no interpretation of facts in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. "
Sorry bro, but presuppositional apologetics is just not science.
I take offence to this bring called quackery! Each to his own, it takes more blind faith to believe that everything around us, including life came from nothing, than faith in an intelligent creator!
I can't think of anything worse than going into death without ever giving God a thought. You might decide he doesn't exist, that's ok, at least you sought him out.
Every person should at least once in their life, do their own research / search for the truth as to who God is. I know Jesus and it's truly the best bargain of all. Absolutely free!
God will reveal himself only when you seek him.
Damn. I used up my daily negging limit on you already.
Run out of negs :/
Dedicate entire life to blind faith in fairytale, hoping for eternal life. Eternal life isn't delivered.
Worst Ozbargain ever
Now I wonder why OP would receive this bargain email…
Anyway a handy way to sort the thinkers from the believers (in vote + list).
Now to count the negs ;-)
Because I'm a Christian… Does it matter?
As for the thinking, I wonder if you have ever considered questioning evolution? Even the most basic of questions.
Genuine question - is there any research that you could cite that ISN'T straight from www.creation.com or www.answersingenesis.org?
But those are the ONLY sites a good believer should consult!
There are a number of articles on creation.com that reference secular and non-Christian sources.
Also, Professor Stuart Burgess of Bristol University does a lot of research in biomechanics (for example) and has an extensive publication record outside of CMI.
I hope that answers your question.
It doesn't answer my question, because I asked for citations from sources that aren't creation.com (raises issues of conflicts of interest). Here's a start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed. If you find any research disproving evolution, myself and the Nobel prize committee would like to hear of it.
And Stuart Burgess's research in biomechanics does not automatically validate his conclusions on evolutionary theory.
@kr0nix: OK. Evolution claims we evolved from primates. If this is the case could someone give me a valid scientific reason why there are still primates today? Surely evolution theory, and remember it is simply the THEORY of evolution, could explain this?
@hindo: Please get a basic understanding of the theory before you start writing these comments. It's a little more complex than what you see in Pokemon.
The primates you see today share a common ancestor with humans. That common ancestor no longer exists today.
@hindo:
I've read this exact argument/question so many times before. Emphasising that it is "simply a theory" is silly and makes you sound very ignorant and stupid.
A scientific theory has a lot of research put into it and is subject to peer review.
Emphasising that it is "simply a theory" makes it sound like someone was sitting around smoking a joint and wrote down what they were thinking about.
Bear in mind that scientific theories are happy to be proven wrong, as pure science is the search for truth.
Religious doctrine that is held as infallible is dangerous as you can never question it.
How can you believe in a book about someone written long after they died, and written by people who'd never met him?
And you question the theory of evolution?
@legiong:
Since this comment is an opinion on the origin of life (something that no one can conclusively prove or disprove because they werent there), is stating that religious doctrine is accepted and not questioned, I ask when was the last time you qeustioned your belief system? And I'm not knocking you but asking sincerely, I used to believe in evolution and thought creationists were ignorant and religious, after many years of research I now believe the opposite is true.
And to prove it, I ask what evidence is there for actual evolution where one kind of animal becomes a different kind? Where is the trans species fossil record? (pick any two animals alive today that cannot interbreed and tell me where is the fossil that shows the middle animal?) Any significant natural improvement or 'evolution' from a simpler animal to a more complex one? or an intermediate will also do. Science is the pursuit of knowledge, obtained through hypothesis, observation and testing. Where is the evolution of living organisms observed and tested? (i dont mean black moths are now white moths, they are still moths).
@Dan_: Well it's hardly the place for an in depth debate but I was simply making a point. There are MANY holes in the theory of evolution which people just seem to accept, this being one of many.
Scientific thinking relies on doubt as a starting point. You need doubt to develop questions.
Without doubt & an open mind, you are just trying to prove your preconceived beliefs.
Belief leaves no room for doubt, as if you doubt you do not believe.
So yes, I have considered other possibilities. I remember my first year ecology class, where we discussed religious beliefs (which I then had) & could you also rely on Scientific thought at the same time - of course, but there may be some tricky issues to deal with.
So doubt evolution…
I dare you to merely question the premises of evolution. Ask the most basic of questions and see if it can answer them?
Will your answers to these questions fall under scientific thought?
Science doesn't have definitive answers for these questions at the present time, but it is decidedly unscientific to accept a God-of-the-gaps solution to bridge these gaps in our knowledge. Especially considering that the existence of a God has never been empirically proven by science. Accepting religious explanations not only stifles scientific enquiry, it also raises questions as to which of the religion's explanations are to be taken as fact.
at the present time, but it is decidedly unscientific to accept a God-of-the-gaps solution to bridge these gaps in our knowledge
It would be unscientific even if proponents of Evolution tried to as well with their time of the gaps (invoking millions of years to explain a process that cannot be observed). That's because these questions delve into the realm of history. And I choose to stick to the oldest book in the world on this one.
existence of a God has never been empirically proven by science
Nor will it be. Just like solely within the confines of the building you're in, if the architect never reveals himself to you then you will never know who he is or if he exists. But the design is impeccable to us.
stifles scientific enquiry
Actually, having an accurate starting point really helps scientific enquiry as it did with Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Pascal, Pasteur etc. These great scientists looked for law in nature because they believed in a law giver (see here for a list of them and more).
How you came by a deal and your association with the deal or site is crucial in all deals on OzBargain!! Otherwise it's just SPAM!
And this seems a bit too like SPAM for my liking, considering the site encourages debates like this (with helpful arguments & links) to get the message out.
Spam? So dick smith send me an email with a discount code, I share that email and that is spam? Nope. That is widely considered fine. Same thing here, just different content. If it's not for you simply move along to next post but don't attempt to label a genuine discount as spam
before you start googling 'problems with evolution', maybe you should start here.
Sadly the fraud of evolution gets page one upon a discovery, debunked, then put into school textbooks knowing it is in error for decades, until some other truth makes front page, rise repeat. ie piltdown man. Evolution is nothing more than the religion of atheists, with total disregard for science and truth.
http://truthnet.org/index.php/atheisma/103-nebraska-man-fake…
http://austore.creation.com/catalog/evolutions-achilles-heel…
Many good Christians also are convinced about the scientific basis of evolution.
Yes and many non Christian scientists question evolution
All waffle and emotional based arguments
Oops - left out the word "creation" before science ;-)
I'll bet a pack of Eneloops that the material you link will make its arguments on the assumption the Bible is infallible.
Not a deal.
Do you mind if I ask why not?
Paying for propaganda is never a bargain. Reducing the price does not change the dubious quality of the product. So could be considered neg worthy under "Defective product".
I think most scientists would consider creationism to be a defective concept. So material supporting it & showing how to argue against a considered & researched scientific field, would be a defective product.
Hi Bruce, that may be your opinion, that's fine. But do you accept that there are people for whom this is a bargain? It's easy to anonymously bash this deal from the comfort of your home. For me as a Christian, when you call this a' defective product' it is derogatory as my beliefs are based in God creating or world.
Irrelevant.
Your Christian beliefs deserve no special status, beyond that afforded to anyone else's beliefs about anything.
As Stephen Fry eloquently put it:
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more… than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f*&#ing what."
You can't claim a defective product without proof in this case. Your claim about scientists is simply incorrect. This study shows that 75% of scientists have religious beliefs. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/february-web-only/s…
@heal:
Surely the material on this deals site has taught you to argue against Science better than that ;-)
Love that research study (limited to USA, not all scientists) results - shows how wonderfully open minded scientists are. Thats the opposite of this fundamentalist.
After all, science as we know it depended for its development on religious thinkers. The first naturalists were church ministers, considering God's work in nature. Religion has been fairly good for science, apart from the odd persecution.
Given the attack on Science by groups like the one in this deal, I'd tick the box "Christian beliefs" to keep my job!
Having religious beliefs is very different to disbelieving Science of Evolution. Being a scientist does not mean your field of knowledge is evolution.
@brucefromaustralia: Having religious beliefs is very different to disbelieving Science of Evolution.
Depends on what the religious beliefs are, ie are they incompatible with the theory of evolution. Most religions have a belief regarding the origin of the universe, they don't all agree with your view. People with different beliefs to you aren't attacking science.
shows how wonderfully open minded scientists are
I wouldn't all these scientists were open minded. Surely the atheists & agnostics aren't open minded to the existence of God and the Christian view on the origin of the universe, otherwise they wouldn't be atheist or agnostic.
Surely the material on this deals site has taught you to argue against Science better than that ;-)
I'm not arguing against science, I'm stating that scientists don't all believe the same thing and thus your reasoning for claiming this is a defective product is flawed.:
The United States National Academy of Sciences defines scientific theories as follows:
The formal scientific definition of "theory" is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics)…One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.
@heal:
CMI supplies material designed to refute Scientific research. It may convince a believer that science is wrong, but believers believe what they want to believe. So no convincing you otherwise, but you insist on pushing this CMI crap.
We call it "theory" rather than doctrine, because science allows difference of thought, unlike CMI fundamentalism & some religions.
The theory of gravity is poorly understood by science, but we can show gravity exists. Gravity does not go away because you don't believe it exists, or it's only a "theory".
What does your belief say about the "theory of gravity"? Where's the Biblical reference to explain gravity and all the other scientific theories as wrong? That should be just as challenging to your beliefs, but no, it comes down to one small section of Science - how life was created - which must be disproven!
That really scares the shit out of the fundamentalist. Uncertainty may be the nurturing ground for science, but it is the great abyss of Christian fundamentalists. It challenges the central role of Man - a Devine creation, and hence the existence if what cannot be proven - God. Hence beliefs MUST be maintained & the unbeliever challenged or worse.
As you say, not all scientists have the same understanding of all areas of Science. My work with research scientists taught me they often don't have much knowledge outside their specialised area. It takes decades of study to understand their field. Scientist can only.speak on their specialty. They do not have an understanding of everything. Now who is all knowing, so can be the expert on everything???
But your CMI or similar based arguments & links can disprove the work of hundreds or thousands of scientists over decades with a simple Bible based refutation!
By the way, I had hidden all your comments some time back as not worthy of reading. That's a rare move for me, but seems justified now.
@brucefromaustralia:
By the way, I had hidden all your comments some time back as not worthy of reading. I didn't know you could do that, though I'm happy to read your comments.
but you insist on pushing this CMI crap. I haven't pushed anything. The only thing I'm pushing is that mods should remove all the negative votes because it is inappropriate - as per ozbargain rules. I've shown you that your use of the negative vote based on a claim of defective product is flawed.
Like I said, this is a deal site and $25 off $120 spend is a deal, no matter whether you like what's for sale or not.
I ask the MODs to please remove all deals for fundamentalist sites like CMI, IS, etc.
That's what we do for cigarettes, betting, etc.
I'm all for sites that challenge, but not ones that actively encourage attacking others considered beliefs, whether they be religious, scientific, or other.
Seems MODs have considered use of negs in this deal.
@brucefromaustralia: I'm all for sites that challenge, but not ones that actively encourage attacking others considered beliefs, whether they be religious, scientific, or other. Okay I get it. It's alright for you to attack my considered beliefs because they contradict yours.
Seems MODs have considered use of negs in this deal I've been disappointed on the lack of action by mods on the use of negative votes as well as personal attacks. Hopefully a mod will post here and clarify things, maybe they're changing the rules?
@heal:
I wouldn't even know of your beliefs unless you came out in support of this site which gives instructions to attack others beliefs.
Your beliefs, or mine are immaterial in this deal.
This deal is about a site providing material to attack others beliefs & Science, to prop up it's fundamentalist single accepted belief. That's the real attack on beliefs here.
This is your second appeal to authority attempt.
I thought we moved past that cheap technique.
I defy you to explain how anything on that site could be worth $95. So you would end up minus $95 after taking advantage of the so-called deal.
Evolution is just as much proven as the medicine that heals you when you're sick and the technology that enables you to connect to the internet from anywhere in the world. Sure you can believe in annoying but don't reap science benefits and go back to the middle ages
No this is operational and repeatable science which creationists contribute to globally. This has nothing to do with the fairy tale that we come from a rock.
You obviously don't understand what creationists teach like the others here.
An uninformed arguement is always lacking substance and accuracy.
No point arguing with people whose mission statement is to dismiss inconvenient facts;
"What We Believe" tab, point D 6.
This deal is the best laugh I've had all day.
No use arguing over someone's beliefs - because it's only that.
I would have been offended & argue with someone who told me Santa was not real. Was such a lovely story, with lots of details that made it seem real. Signs of Santa's existence was everywhere in December, so I was right to believe in 'Him'. Made me feel safe & happy believing that. But I grew up.
I am surprised you haven't appealed to the flying spaghetti monster!
Another weak argument that appeals to the simple minded.
The bible is unique and you cannot easily compare Santa and fsm to it without being foolish.
After watching propaganda that reinforces your own beliefs you mean.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.
@kapone. Yes, you are correct that everyone is "entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts." The facts are there for all to observe. It's the interpretation that you have a disagreement with. Given that none of us were there in the beginning of creation/life, it really boils down to what seems more "reasonable" in the mind of someone.
So is this one of these Australia Day riots I've heard about? Where people from different backgrounds and beliefs assert only their true belief is valid, and the other should go back home.
It was evolution that taught and practised racism from the start.
The bible always scientifically accurately taught that all men are one blood and one race.
When Islam and Hindu followers can post religious items (such as https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/147291 and https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/166255) and Negs were banned by Moderator, I consider this as well a deal for those who are interested. If you are not interested, why neg ? Something which is not useful for you, could be useful others…
The site in this deal contains material to discount & argue against current scientific research, based on the literal reading of a text which had many rewrites, and was never written as the final word thousands of years later on how our planet & it's flora & fauna happens to be here. We have far more knowledge now, live very different lives, and can understand at a different level to those 2000+ years ago.
As such it really is fundamentalism.
I dont believe on Islam teaching, that doesn't mean I can Neg the deal on Islam, if you don't believe on Creation, you just need to pass the deal, not neg, hope you have read the voting guideline.. :)
Majority of Christians don't believe this ancient & fringe belief either.
If another group was to post a link to materiel to denigrate & argue against the considered thoughts of another like this deal does, I would neg it to.
As I posted when I negged - negged on the basis this is a defective product. Propaganda based on defective beliefs is defective.
I'm not negging because this is a Christian deal. If was Islamic, Jewish fundamentalism etc attacking science & major Western thought & research, I would certainly also neg it.
I don't think anyone who negged this is complying with the voting guidelines.
It could be defective for you, you may have your own right to believe, but is not defective for me
Bruce I'm not sure you would know that. Doesn't seem like you would hang out in Christian circles much…
Like I said you have a right to believe what you believe, You can call that defective, or I can call that as your ignorance..
What you call defective is believed by many scientists such as Albert Einstein, Arthur Compton, Blaise Pascal, Erwin Schrödinger, Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler and Louis Pasteur and many more…
@lukeyluke:
I would not question my allegiances, and I wont post them here.
Rather I am concerned by a post to a site which attacks my own years of teaching people to think for themselves, rather than take an off the shelf belief, especially when that belief precludes any other considered thought or belief.
I happily associate with many religious people, travelling the world doing that.
I just detest fundamentalism, by any group. It's based on a defective & self limited belief system.
@lukeyluke:
I'm just back from my usual overseas trips, visiting religious festivals, archeological sites, talking to older people about their lives.
The number of times people have referred to me as a "good Christian" or when counselling a dying man in Japan "Buddha", well I've lost count. I don't tell them my own belief or lack of it - that would be disrespectful. Mormons & I happily hung out in the rain in Tokyo, Buddhists have fed me as I volunteered in little villages.
But then, if some one deliberately attacks my own beliefs, considered thoughts, understanding, I will say what I think.
Attacking others beliefs only reinforces those beliefs. I am far too influenced by Christians in my upbringing. So I believe showing by example a better way, or gently challenging, can transform lives.
I love learning through thought provoking challenges. But it can be a shock to realise my past beliefs are no longer valid.
@brucefromaustralia: Sorry to burst your bubble but there is no such thing as a "good Christian". All have sinned so none of us are "good" - who defines what is good anyway. Thankfully Jesus died on the cross for this very reason
You do not accurately understand how and why the bible is a reliable translation at all. This is an often repeated false argument.
Where's the real proof against creationist materials?
Where's the real proof for goo to you evolution?
You all claiming you are free thinkers and have open minds but that's the deception. I study both fields in depth.
Think for yourselves! What a joke when you mob are totally fundamentalists for evolution!
They weren't trying to flog books for well over $100, and then claiming a bargain when priced at just under $100.
There have been 5 negs on this and for what reason? Read the voting guidelines. If you don't agree with Christianity, why bother commenting and making personal attacks.
I like most Christians, or anyone who is strong in their examined belief. Good on you.
But when anyone tells me my considered beliefs and thoughts are wrong, oh boy! That's what this deal is about. No other way of thinking can coexist with the belief in this deal.
My criticism has NOTHING to do with Christianity, it's fundamentalism - the site sets out how to discredit Science, on pretty shoddy grounds.
@brucefromaustralia
But when anyone tells me my considered beliefs and thoughts are wrong, oh boy! Isn't that what you're doing, claiming that the considered beliefs and thoughts of several members of this forum are wrong by your posts here? Is that appropriate for this site? You'd be better of starting a chat in a forum that allows religious debate. This site is for deals and $25 off $120 spend is a deal whether you like the content or not.
Get them to give up their tax-exempt status and I'll consider buying.