Can I/Should I Upgrade This Computer???

Tafe on 17/01/2015 - 14:12

Hello OzB brains trust,

I have a 4-5 year old computer that I've just retired from service in my office. It seemed to lag and stall for no reason, even after a complete wipe/fresh install of Win 7.

The computer has since been replaced by a new out-of-the-box setup and all good on that front.

I'm wondering what I could do with the old computer? I see parts/components on OzB and I wonder to myself - could I buy these parts when they come up and use them to 'rebuild' the old computer in to something worthwhile keeping?

FWIW, I don't know a lot about computers (more than the 'average' person, but still not much in the scheme of things) but am quite sure I could do basic sort of stuff (ie, I routinely pull apart iDevices to replace screens and batteries for friends using Ebay parts and YouTube tutorials)

So can I take an old computer and put in an i7 CPU and an SSD and bob's your uncle, or am I way off the mark?

Here this is what I've got:

New Compaq Presario CQ3140AN Desktop PC, AMD Athlon II X4 Quad-Core Processor 620 with HyperTransport Technology (2.60 GHz, 2 MB L2 Cache, 4000MHz HT3), 2GB DDR2 RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD+/-RW dual layer with LightScribe drive, ATI Radeon HD 4350 graphic (DVI, VGA interface), integrated audio, integrated 10/100 Fast Ethernet, 6x USB ports, 6-in-1 digital media reader, keyboard, mouse, power cable, Windows 7 Home Premium pre-installed

Any thoughts from some tech heads greatly appreciated.

Computing

Comments

  • Cheeper on 17/01/2015 - 14:35
    +1

    The specs read ok for a non gaming machine. Should be fine for a everyday home machine. Plenty of stuff you can blow $'s on if you want to… but why? Your main thing to know is what the motherboard is and its capabilities. Find the model no on the board and look up the specs. That will govern what you can add or not.
    A SSD would give it some grunt (depends on mobo) and a couple of more gigs of ram maybe.

    Does it do what you want now?

    Odd that your IT people replaced it with a new one?? They can't analyse faults by the sound of it.

  • Settero on 17/01/2015 - 14:36
    +2

    its probably runs slow because it has 2 gb ram , ddr2…
    its not worth upgrading, and you cant put a i7 into a amd motherboard, wrong chip set.

  • scrimshaw on 17/01/2015 - 14:42
    +7

    A quick lesson in computer hardware —

    One of the main parts in a computer is the motherboard, on which most or all of your computer's components are attached to. When you're upgrading an existing system, you are restriced to using certain types of CPU's, RAM, HDD/SSD and possibly other kinds of hardware, because some of the interfaces on the motherboard gradually become obsolete and eventually are replaced by newer versions and standards.

    The main reason you can't simply upgrade your current processor to any one you like is because of CPU socket differences. This article here lists briefly what the current CPU sockets are in use (2014), but there are generally broken into two camps — Intel and AMD, and again, they are broken up into different platforms and chipset types. If you read the entire article you'll get a pretty good idea of what the different chipsets do and what roles they are suited for.

    You can generally work out what type of socket is required by looking at the description of the CPU you're going to buy. You will hear things like LGA1150, AM3, AM3+ and so on, these are referring to socket types.

    As for RAM, the current standard for desktop memory is currently DDR3 and if you are still running a DDR2 machine, you won't be able to use the new standard since the memory slot (interface) are physically incompatible. This leaves you with only DDR2 DIMMS to upgrade with and as time goes on, outdated computer memory become harder to source and vendors often increase the prices due to supply/demand differences, forcing you to rely on eBay or second hand markets if you want a cheap upgrade.

    Hard drives and SSD's — thankfully, all current SSD's and HDD's still use the old SATA interface and SATA was designed with forward and backwards compatibility, meaning that an older motherboard packing an older SATA 2 interface would be compatible with SATA3 equipment, and vice versa. However, while they are physically compatible, a SATA3 SSD would only operate at the speed of the port it's connected to. SATA3 is specced to transfer 6 Gbit/s, 600 MB/s) while SATA2 is half that. This poses a speed bottleneck which can adversely impact the performance of a very fast SSD drive. This means the SSD drive could've performed faster if it was connected to a newer type of SATA port.

    As to whether your computer actually needs an upgrade — if the main use of that desktop is to simply act as a media centre for media playback, then it's actually already good enough, and you don't really need much in terms of extra CPU power or GPU grunt to play back 1080p content — even a mobile phone could do that.

    What you might need to consider is possibly a worn out HDD, which you can replace with either a new HDD or an SSD. A failling or bad hard disk may be the likely culprit of your slow system. The other likely culprit is heat, so if the desktop is dusty, give it a good cleaning with compressed air and throw in some new thermal paste.

    That is at most the sort of hardware you will need to buy if you want to refurbish that desktop. A RAM upgrade is useful too, but don't spend too much on it — at most, a 2GB DIMM from Fleabay will give additional performance with multitasking.

  • QuickToThePointless on 17/01/2015 - 14:48
    +1

    Dont worry bout all the techno babble. Just chuck in a SSD and chuck in 4gb ram. Id also chuck in a tuner and chuck in a HDMI/DVI cable. You can then use Windows 7 media centre as a kick ass PVR/DVR.

  • ethereal88 on 17/01/2015 - 15:23
    +2

    5yr old is close to the bin especially if its a crappy factory box. You have a hot (and slow) old AMD quad, a cheapo generic case + PSU, no gigabit ethernet (ROFL), and less RAM that a half decent phone these days. So yes its time for a replacement.

  • TopCat on 17/01/2015 - 16:20
    +1

    I have a home media PC sitting at my TV.
    I use a program called Popcorn Time and I can also load on some really basic steam games and hook up some Xbox controllers to it so I can do some couch co-op.
    Steam also has a cool streaming feature where if you have a more powerful computer in your household, you stream the high performance to your media PC and you hardly know the difference.

  • Tafe on 17/01/2015 - 16:32
    -1

    Thanks for the comments guys (especially for the bonus lesson Scrim!)

    Likely use at home would be for a media centre. System at the moment is slow (usually only when you try and multitask, but at this stage switching between two basic applications can take 30 secs - you might only be doing something as basic as switching from Word to Spotify to start a new playlist…) This is after a complete re-install with minimal applications. So comments on overheating or worn out HDD dont sound unreasonable.

    So based on your comments, does an action plan like this sound OK?

    1. Open it up and give it a good clean with compressed air
    2. Replace the thermal paste (I assume there is a tutorial for thermal paste replacement???) Paste looks about ~$10 on Ebay…

    Then see if that makes a difference?

    Then if I want to take it further I could;

    1. Replace the 500GB HDD with a 120GB SSD keeing in mind that the SSD speed will be limited by the motherboard.
    2. Get more RAM with something like this

    (I am aware the offers may be expired, I'm just using examples…)

    And then theoretically have myself a very useable home workstation/media centre for ~$120?

    • scrimshaw on 17/01/2015 - 17:46
      +1

      Yeah thermal paste is easy to apply. Put a little glob of paste (about 2x bigger a grain of basmati rice) straight bang in tthe centre, then mount the heatsink as usual. Do not lift the heatsink once it's down, because you will get bubbles. Watch youtube!

      For an SSD, buy yourself a sizable 240GB SSD, say something budget from Sandisk, Crucial will be good enough. You're not going to win any prizes for speed, just get something good for the dollar.

      • Noblejoker on 20/01/2015 - 11:33

        Try the clean-out, extra ram and ssd first
        Heat issues are most likely in fans and heatsinks full of dust and having to work hard/er
        I wouldn't bother with reapplying thermal paste - it's a fiddly job and won't help much
        Just make sure the heat sink fan is clean and spinning
        Reaply the past later if you still have heat issues

        Don't spend much time or energy on it - this is currently a $100 machine
        Just clean it and get some cheap ram
        But buy a decent SSD (240gb+ as suggested by Scrimshaw) because you can use it again later

        With the clean ram and ssd you will wonder why you bought a new one for work!

        • scrimshaw on 20/01/2015 - 17:25

          A thermal paste change can make a difference of a few degrees on a 8 year old pc.

          Particularly, if the heat sink has come loose you may as well remove the HSF out of the case to clean it properly and reapply with fresh Thermal paste (the decent stuff) and then remounting it. If the heatsink isn't mounted properly in the first place, no amount of PC cleaning will help since the CPU isn't touching the heatsink.

          A little effort at first to the beginer, but dead easy the second time you have to do it, computer maintenance is easy if you know how.

  • breaks on 17/01/2015 - 16:39
    +1

    Take a look at HP's product page which mentions what upgrades are available.
    The fastest CPUs available for it are the Phenom II quad cores which aren't available in retail these days. You might get one for a bargain on ebay though but you will have to stick to the AM2+ 95w versions.

    Edit: After reading more carefully what you plan to use it for, I'd just upgrade the RAM and toss it a larger HDD. An SSD is not worth it for what you plan on doing IMO. Also, as Scrimshaw mentioned, I'd replace the thermal paste and possibly the heat sink as it may have failed after years of use. That can cause slow, glitchy performance.

  • tonyjzx on 17/01/2015 - 17:34
    -4

    am i reading this correct

    you want to put an Intel i7 cpu into an AMD computer

    lol

    thanks for this, great thread

    • Tafe on 18/01/2015 - 08:40

      Glad you're amused…

  • tonyjzx on 17/01/2015 - 18:17
    -2

    truthfully that machine is a pile of shit

    at best add 2 x 1gb ddr2 modules and an ssd might be ok

    i have two spare machines, one is a Phenom II 565 with both cores unlocked at 3.4Ghz and its fast for what it is

  • AlienC on 17/01/2015 - 18:38

    buy a fresh new completely brand new new computer.. seriously you will just thank yourself after..

    personally i love laptops now but that's just me because i can pick them up and take them around wherever i want

    oh you wanna watch some tv shows and or youtube on the bed sure why not lets do it

    oh you wanna game at your desk with the aircon on full blast on your face sure why not lets do it

    i love laptops now laptops ftw

    • scrimshaw on 17/01/2015 - 19:17
      +1

      buy a fresh new completely brand new new computer.. seriously you will just thank yourself afte

      If you actually bothered to read the OP, the computer has been retired from it's old job as an office computer and he wants to find a new use for it.

      • AlienC on 18/01/2015 - 20:24

        mb sorry i don't know what i was thinking.. i think i should go ahead and lie down

  • Kawaii69 on 18/01/2015 - 03:27
    +1

    There's no point in upgrading it with an i7 unless you're going to use it for rendering or editing etc… I'd get a pentium g3258, i3 or i5 depending on what I use the computer for. If you're just going to browse do some office work download stuff I'd suggest i3 or the pentium, and you'll need at least 4gb ddr3 ram (personal opinion)

  • Soundwave on 18/01/2015 - 13:20
    +1

    Scrimshaw seems to have the best practical answer. Most people don't understand that you got it for free and you just want to know how you can make it run a bit smoother at minimal costs.

    The only thing I would change is the HDD. Seeing it is SATA2, I would just buy a 2TB HDD under $100. Only because it sounds like you're going to use it for media purposes.

    If not, go 240GB SSD like Scrimshaw says. You'll be surprised how quick a 120GB can fill up.

  • srhardy on 18/01/2015 - 16:14

    Install a 256gb SSD and replace the memory, say 8gb sound nice, install win7-64bit or win8.1-64bit on the SSD and apps, move the documents/photos/music/video folders to the 500GB HD…. Should be good for another few years…

    The biggest boost will be memory and ssd; but if your skimping then get a fast 7200rpm 1-2tb HD with a large cache and at least 4gb but i would go 8gb myself as i like RAM as its cheap speed… Get another year or so…. But with the cheap SSD and memory, i would do both. Fast enough for biz for another few 2-3years

    msy.com.au gamedude.com.au and computerallience.com.au all sell and deliver. Look for 500mb read/write SSD HD and if you go bigger then you can get rid of the old HD altogether! SATA2 is fast enough and you wont flood it even with a SSD HD so dont panic…

  • netsurfer on 18/01/2015 - 16:34
    +1

    It is not worth upgrading the PC. DDR2 RAMs are old and expensive to upgrade. The motherboard lacks SATA3/6.0GB, which means you could run into issues with certain SSDs (and even if you get the ones which works with SATA2 properly, it will be limited) - you need to avoid ones with Sandforce chipset because a lot of them don't work properly with SATA2 (slower than usual). The 10/100 network on board is also dated. USB 2.0 is too slow. Buying a USB3.0 PCI-E card, SATA3 PCI-E card and gigabit ethernet card just seems a bit over the top.

    Sorry mate, get a new PC, forget the old PC.

  • MasterScythe on 18/01/2015 - 20:05
    +2

    This is a ClusterFxck of advice in here!

    I've worked in customer facing IT roles for 13 years, so I'll keep it quick and simple :)

    1. To use a single drive, I'd get a Seagate Hybrid drive, BIG storage, with near SSD speed. It'll be perfect for that machine.
    2. Another 2GB stick of RAM (assuming its a single 2GB stick now)

    Will make an absolute WORLD of difference for 'desktop use', perfectly fine for a media centre. Try XBMC for the software. or even XBMCBuntu as the whole OS.

    Other than that, take the computer to an air compressor, hold the fans still (CRUCIAL!) and blow the hell out of that case.

    Thermal paste can be a bit of a job if you're new, because the worst bit of working on a PC for a new person is the heatsink mounting brackets, and thats what you'll have to tackle.

    If you DO decide to do this,
    http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&p…
    That's what you want.
    Best on the market, and cheap.
    Also non conductive if you 'noob it up' and use too much :)

    I mean no offense to anyone here, but ignore the people who are obsessed with specs. I'm an avid gamer and overclocker, but it's all about horses for courses.

    USB3 hardly ever reaches speed anyway so who cares.
    100mbps ethernet is still faster than 99% of peoples breadband connection, so once again, no big deal.
    Sata2 is unlikely to be saturated by any sort of media centre use.
    The list of unnecessary worry goes on.

    You want a media PC (which usually means will often play basic TV level indy games and surf the net too). This is more than OK for that, with some more RAM.

    $48 for a 2GB stick of RAM.
    http://umart.com.au/umart1/pro/Products-details.phtml?id=10&…

    $97 for a 1TB hybrid seagate drive.
    http://umart.com.au/umart1/pro/Products-details.phtml?id=10&…

    Less than $150 total and it'll feel like a new machine.

    • Tafe on 18/01/2015 - 21:45
      +1

      Thank you so much for your comprehensive and helpful response!

      Weekend project on the cards.

    • netsurfer on 19/01/2015 - 02:16

      USB 3.0 does make a big difference. Copying gigabytes of files on USB 2.0 takes ages. Gigabit ethernet, USB 3.0 and SATA3 are all standards config nowadays (even on the cheapest m/b).

      I work with larger amount of data so I only use USB 3 or eSATA external drives or NASes which pumps 100MB/sec of data (megabytes not megabits). I cannot stand copying 2TB of data taking a whole day (via USB 2.0).

      $48 for 2GB of RAM … you can get 4GB of DDR3-1600 for the same price or SO-DIMM for a laptop.

      I have a 240GB SSD which only does 125MB/sec sequential read under SATA2, but 500MB/sec sequential read under SATA3. If you must put SSD on SATA2, avoid Sandforce chipset (firmware bug I reckon).

      If it is just for general Web surfing, there is little reason to do any upgrade. Just enable sleep/wake up and use them instead of shutdown and reboot all the time. Spending money on a PC that's > 4 years old is probably not a good idea, unless you really want to open it up and try things out. An SSD or a hybrid will make the most difference in performance (more than the RAM).

      Also, if you have to re-install Windows 7, use a USB stick, much quicker than DVD.

      • netsurfer on 19/01/2015 - 08:19

        PC being 4-5 years old for work purposes means it has already been depreciated down to 0. At work, such PC won't be upgraded, a new PC will be provided / purchased.

        For me, my work PC is replaced every 2-3 years and I prefer my home PCs as fast, if not faster than work.

        • MasterScythe on 19/01/2015 - 09:24

          I agree with the idea of 'Try first' before spending money.
          Boot into XBMCBuntu\KodiBuntu and see if it's enough as it is.

          But as for your comments on upgrading;
          For a media player? Why?

          And yes, USB3 is faster, but you need to pay for a decent drive too. As a media server, he wont write often but read daily. How will USB3 really benefit him?
          I almost always get better rates using a cheap USB2 drive than a cheap USB3.

          Also with a single HDD how will he saturate SATA2?

          Yes, he can buy 4GB of ddr3 for that price, but that wont help him. For starters, it wont fit in his motherboard, secondly Its just playing music and movies after all.

          I understand your SSD was faster on SATA3, but what sort of movie file do you expect him to be playing that requires 125MB a second throughput? (thats BYTE not BIT).

          The sandforce bug was patched long ago, just be sure your drive has latest firmware. But I still say for a media box, a Hybrid drive is the way.

          Curiously, for below $150, what would you recommend for a media server?
          The only other solution I can come up with is a RaspberryPi with an external HDD. But that's beyond OP's (current) skill level. Everyone can learn :)

        • ethereal88 on 19/01/2015 - 10:08

          @MasterScythe:

          Its 2015 not 2005, if you don't have an SSD as a boot drive you are just wasting time. Hybrid drives are rubbish with only a tiny slice of SSD cache. Use a 250GB or 500GB OS drive and a 4TB or 6TB HDD for storage.

        • MasterScythe on 19/01/2015 - 10:18

          @ethereal88:

          How will an SSD help an always on machine like a media player?

          Also, why would a media player have more than 8GB of 'boot files' which will be cached by a hybrid?
          Unless you fill the 8GB modern hybrids have they're just as fast as pure SSD (as thats what they're acting like)
          http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_desktop_sshd_review
          Look at the cached speeds

          What do you have in your boot sequence that takes more than 8GB of space dude?

        • netsurfer on 19/01/2015 - 11:50

          @ethereal88: I think MasterScythe considered the high possibility that the old PC may only have 2 SATA ports. Now, if you want to keep the DVD writer, you are left with 1 SATA port. I do agree a SSD would be better (esp. if you don't need a lot of space on the old PC).

          Again, unsure whether it is worthwhile doing too much upgrade on this old PC. As a simple Web browser PC, the CPU is still an overkill and consumes too much electricity in today's standard. The motherboard crippled the ability to fully utilise the CPU (basically HP/Compaq keeping the cost down - for build your own PC, I would have picked a motherboard with more SATA ports and gigabit ethernet (and added a USB3 card) even 4 years ago).

          For simple usage, just use sleep / wake up (leave the browsers running, don't close it). This avoids the startups / shutdowns. For Web, the Internet speed is the slow part. Even for my fastest PC, I still avoid shutdown / reboot. Yes, SSD gives you 5 seconds boot up time in Windows 7 (even quicker in Windows 8 due to the hybrid boot), but that's still 5 seconds.

  • QuickToThePointless on 19/01/2015 - 12:29
    +1

    I like how these guys are arguing over a theoretical computer that neither would obviously never own. Techno babblers really take things personally lol

    Dont worry bout all the techno babble. Just chuck in a SSD and chuck in 4gb ram. Id also chuck in a tuner and chuck in a HDMI/DVI cable. You can then use Windows 7 media centre as a kick ass PVR/DVR.

    You may save a second of loading time here and there with diff combos etc but is a computer that is worht nothing worth worryiing about too much?

    I think not!

    Just chuck in some cheap components or just chuck it out - new ssd and ram will make it more snappier (is that a technical term?) and a new tuner will let you record FTA tv.

    • MasterScythe on 19/01/2015 - 12:37

      Plus. Fxking. One. To this comment.
      Just make it work, and use it.
      "little bit more electricity" or "10 seconds slower loading" is nothing for a media PC.

      My media PC is a dingle core Sempron, still handles 1080p fine.

      Hence why I said RAM and Hybrid (for media storage, AND boot speed).
      Cheap, usable, just enjoy the 'free PC'

      • Tafe on 19/01/2015 - 13:05

        Thanks guys, I will stick with MS's plan and see how I go.

        I will enjoy having a tinker and play either way.

        Looked into XBMC and it looks pretty cool.

        For the "pile of sh!t", "throw it away" etc type comments fair enough, but personally find that mentality of wasteful consumerism really off-putting.

        If I can spend ~$100-150 and have a media centre that will give me a few years of enjoyment (and I learn something in the process) then I'm happy!

        • MasterScythe on 19/01/2015 - 13:13

          Hell, try it as is!

          for a media PC, especially using a Linux OS designed to ONLY by a media PC, you might find its already good enough.

          Spend $30 on a wireless keyboard\mouse and enjoy :)

        • srhardy on 21/01/2015 - 07:53

          While i get the 'consumerism of waste' bang for buck you can buy a new laptop for $250-300 & it will come with usb3 win8.1x and even touch screen for a little more. $500 offers a real range of choice! computerallience, msy, gamdeude, even dicksmith, harveynormans, joycemaine, officeworks, jbhifi all have deals on for the back to school kids and they are just as good as a desktop replacement so conciser wisely.

        • MasterScythe on 21/01/2015 - 09:20

          @srhardy:
          But he's building a media PC…

          If he decides he wants storage, where do you add the PCI card for more SATA ports?

        • netsurfer on 28/01/2015 - 14:59

          Based on the specs of your PC, the eBay selling value is approx. $75 (buyer to pick up).

          The main drawback of the upgrade is that you are making compromises on the upgrade. DDR2 RAM costs 2X more and that was due to an outdated motherboard. With SATA2, there is little reason to buy a fast SSD. RAM upgrade and SSD upgrade are relatively easy.

          If you just want to use it to playback data or stream from the Internet, then just use sleep and wake up (don't use hybrid sleep, that's more like hibernate). It should take less than 2 seconds to wake up (otherwise something is wrong with the software).

          A software solution costs $0 and does not need to open up the box. Try that first. You really don't need to shutdown / restart all the time. Even on PCs with SSDs, I use sleep / wake up very often.

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