Refused Service Because of Too Many People. Legal or Not?

Okay so 8 of my relatives came from overseas and I wanted to take them to eat some wood fire pizza at Lygon st in Melbourne. Because my relatives are all 50-70 years old, I let them rest in a park while I go up the street to look for a good restaurant. There I saw a restaurant called Villa Romana (might as well name and shame), and talked to the owner (im suspecting) who said they serve stone cooked pizzas. I asked if they would accept 10 people, and he said he will set up the table.

So I went to fetch my relatives and came to the restaurant; I talked to the waitress there who asked me if I wanted to sit inside and outside (which meant there were enough space available to accommodate us), then the owner came outside and asked me if we were only going to have pizzas and how much we were planning to order. I said 3 or 4 pizzas and then he told me he cannot serve us because they were 'too busy to have so many people ordering too little food'. Then he went on a rant about how previously he had 15 people come in and only order 2 pizzas. He was plainly rude and was going on and on about nothing infront of all the customers, embarassing us and making us feel like we have committed a crime…so we went up 3 shops up the street and spent $203 getting 4 pizzas, 1 chicken parmy with beers and orange juices. Not a whole lot by any amount but definitely not 2 pizzas. So is this legal? I still feel really angry about this

TLDR: rude owner refuses service to my relatives based on his previous experience with asian tourists who took up lots of space and only ordered 2 pizzas. (Rascial profiling?) Making me feel embarassed infront of my relatives and making my relatives feel embarassed infront of all the customers sitting out the front (everyone was staring because the owner was causing such a ruckus). My relatives are all old and DO NOT deserve to be treated like that.

Ps: I was a supervisor at an italian restaurant and I know that pizzas arent as profitable as other mains and even my boss used to not be fond of customers (mainly tourists) who orders the bare minimum because its not profitable and that tourists are not going to end up as regular customers..just one offs; however just because my relatives fit the description of typical asian tourists, doesnt mean we will order the same way. And we have never refused service to anyone because of it.

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Comments

    • Yeh I asked him, but by that point, his mind was already set and he was just being really rude so we walked out

      • I am interested to know what his minimum required rate of pizza consumption is. 4 pizzas between 10 = 0.4 of a pizza each. Nearly half a pizza each. That's not out of the ordinary is it? Depending on the size of the pizza of course. Did he expect every one to eat a whole pizza?

        I'm a guts who eats a whole large pizza by myself if given the chance, on the rare occasions I buy them but 0.4 of a pizza sounds like normal consumption to me.

        • Ive worked at an italian restaurant before to know that pizza itself is not a profitable business. The owner generally want 1 or 2 pizzas and the rest to order pasta or individual dishes that can make up the rest in profits. Regardless, that doesnt give him the excuse to treat us in contempt and make us look like fools infront of everyone

  • It was stupid of the owner to agree without setting his terms. Is that a breach of contract, Your Honour? I guess it depends on whether the offer was to take up 10 places in the restaurant or the offer was to order 3-4 pizzas.

  • If they were already in the park, you could just order some take away and let them enjoy a nice dine out experience.

    Everyone wins!!! you get pizza and owner doesn't have tables blocked up

  • Did the owner specifically say it was based on his past experience with "Asian tourists" or just tourists in generally ?

  • +1

    At the end of the day he's the loser out of it all, loss of customers, no money in and a bad review from you plus through word of mouth you can diss him to your friends and relies and on social media if you wish. It would certainly be a turn off to know that there's a chance of being turned away there and made an example of for no good reason by the owner who clearly has no care for his customers. Had he been more accommodating and the meal been great then it would have been a better outcome for him I would have thought.

    • Depends.
      There has been cases of shops closing down because people would use them as "meeting" shops. If word got out to the Uni students about a meeting place which you can just order a drink and eat nothing, then spend a whole afternoon there, then they will jump at it! We all know how scarce meeting rooms at uni are!

      Although, instead of refusing the service, the manager should have told the customer there is a minimum spend, and if you don't agree then service will be denied.

  • I'm not sure how much this has to do withe racial profiling. I have see plenty of times Teens and younger adult groups turned away because of the assumption of lack of spending by the group. Business that have this type of attitude don't hang around long or the managers that implement them don't. 20 years experience in the Hostility industry here.

    • -1

      I'm not sure about this.. The way OP explains it, it sounds like a smallish pizza shop with maybe only a few tables. If 8 people is half his store then you have a problem.

      OP mentions spending $200, which may sound like a bit but for a family gathering of 8 that's really not much. That's about $25 for a person. Let's assume they stayed for about 2 hours, that's $12.5/hr each customer is paying. The profit (before paying employees) probably puts this down to about $2-3/hr, per a person, per an hour.

      Now instead, a few young couples come in and each order a pizza (assumable their main profit point) and drinks. They spend maybe $20-25 for 1 pizza and 2 drinks, for a profit of maybe ~$5 for the store. They eat their pizza in about 30minutes and leave, making the store an easy $5 profit in only 30 minutes. That same table would've made that amount in 2 hours otherwise. It's simply good business.
      If in non-peak times (not lunch/dinner) this could become more profitable, though for peak times it's almost a loss to allow them in.

  • -3

    Yep, it's legal.
    The owner has a business to run, if he thinks you're going to take up his tables for half the night and only buy a few pizzas he is more than welcome to turn you away and refuse to serve you.

    Go somewhere else which is happy to accept a medium-sized family gathering. They'll be more than happy to have you get there as early as you want and stay until closing if you like.

    • -3

      can't wait to the day when you get older and want to catch a bus, but the bus driver can't be bothered to wait for the old you to hop on the bus as in that time he could have got 5 teenagers on! The law is clear on this fact…. look up and read a few cases on age discrimination. The law is there for a reason.

      • -3

        In what world can a family gathering at a pizza store and getting on a bus be compared?

        Not to mention I wasn't even directly stating the age difference is the problem here, rather the fact it's a family gathering at a pizza restaurant. By the way OP explains it i would assume this isn't the largest restaurant ever either.

        Anyway, back to your confusing comparison.. Public transport companies encourage the offering of seats to elderly at peak times… It's a completely different situation. Plus if I want to be on a bus for 2hours, I pay for 2hours worth of tickets; not for 30minutes of tickets and stay for 2hours.

        • +9

          the OP states clearly: OP alone went into the restaurant and asked if he can get a table for 10. Pizza shop agreed. That was an offer and acceptance. was there an intention to create legal relations = yes. was there to be consideration = yes. OP shows up with the oldies and gets turned around. Irrespective whether large or small restaurant. the pizza shop could have said that for a table of 10 there is a minimum order of $400… but they never did. For all I care the oldies could drink water and leave. there is a thing called social responsibility.

        • and thanks for bolding 'family gathering'… who knows why you focus on that.

        • @Logical: I assume a family gathering is a lot longer stay than just a quick dinner. I'm not sure about your family, but when my family has any kind of gathering it's usually a minimum of 3-4hours at a restaurant, while going out for dinner is usually around 1.

          More than a minimum order, it would be wiser to put a maximum stay.. Though I see the point you're trying to make, they could've indeed done that.

          At the end of the day, it seems like OP describes it as a privately (possibly family?) owned small pizza place.. I'm sure we can all respect the fact they want to priorities more profitable customers to ensure they can firstly pay employees and secondly (hopefully) turn a profit.

        • +1

          @dyl: Im not sure about other families but we never stay around longer than we have to when we go out for dinner. We just make the order, enjoy the food, pay and leave. Everyone has different priorities and eating habits, some people make a big occasion out of a dinner event, and others just come for a good feed and leave.

          You seem to be making alot of assumptions there too. The place was not huge by any means but it wasnt tiny and was enough to seat more than 100 people easy. We were not specifically in the city for dinner either, we have been touring the city the whole day and just wanted to let them taste some wood fire pizza before we went home. They are old and were tired, with a couple of them saying they just wanted to eat quick and go home. These sort of details are impossible to pick up if you dont know us personally, and so its not use trying to generalise people based on his his previous experience and assumptions.

          Whatever his assumptions were, that guy was way too rude and way too overdramatic. Instead of discreetly handling the affair, he chose to make a scene infront of everyone. Just take into consideration that this could happen to anyone, if they choose to dine there.

  • +2

    anyone else noticed OP is the same person who got stuck at Shanghai airport not long ago?

    • +2

      Yes, is the same OP who got stuck in Shanghai. And kicked out of an apartment. And now refused service. Trouble magnet?

      • This must be OzTherapy where we listen to everyone's problems/rants.

  • +3

    To be honest, the owner doesn't deserve good business the way he acted, the OP and his family sound like respectable folk, just after a nice meal and to enjoy the atmosphere. The owner clearly has a bee in his bonet and then goes that extra step further to make a fool out of those he deems unworthy of entering his kingdom. It's probably a good thing you didn't give him any further funding for his ego-tripped establishment.

  • Definitely just leave a bad review in a few different places. I would be angry too.

  • -3

    Of course it's legal, customers today really think they're always right and entitled to everything. First rule for consumers: Goods and services always belong to the sellers, it is totally up to them to sell to whoever they want, whenever they want..

    • +6

      There is more to it than that.
      The owner is responsible for his actions, in this case acting like a rude prick and humiliating the OP in front of his extended family. The OP merely wished to dine with his family and even went as far as walking over alone to check everything was OK first,! He did not refuse service in a polite or reasonable way, he gave them a dressing down. Who would expect that? It is completely unreasonable.

      • +1

        He is Voldemort afterall

    • No its not. See ref earlier to s44 of the equal opportunity act.

  • +3

    I'm going to go against trend and say possibly not legal but nothing you can do.

    The reason I'm say possibly not legal is I believe you make have initiated a contract when you asked if they would serve 10 people and they agreed.
    Of course it can be argued the contract is voided as there is no meeting of minds as the manager dislikes old customers or even he should get a reasonable cooling off period.

    Because he didn't honor that contract you did suffer damage, you were inconvenienced . It had the potential to cost you an evening you family had spent thousands in travel costs to enjoy.

    Best advice though is forget it completely, you don't wanna be worrying about it.
    Give his business phone number to the next scam emailer you get and use it any time you need a fake phone number to dodge marketing calls. This always makes me feel better when I have been treated unjustly by a business who relies on their phone.

    • +4

      Tonka and Zarcady reunite!

      • lol

        • +4

          Yep, its best to let it go. My aunts have gone back already (hopefully they havent fallen asleep at the airport) and Im satisfied that at least some people on Ozb will remember the name next time they are in Lygon st.

  • Should have at least ordered one side salad between you and then he would have been happy.

  • -2

    I can't help but think that it's ironic that the OP is complaining about stereotypes yet he was hoping to do something that supports that exact stereotype.

  • Could someone in Melbourne go check out that restaurant and report back - both food quality and customer service. I am so going there next time down in MEL just to see what a joint this is.

  • Perfectly legal, but not necessarily a good business decision. We'll never know though. For all we know it was a good choice on his part, he may have gotten more revenue out of those seats that what your party would have spent or the bad publicity he made when mouthing you off in front of other customers cost him potential future revenue. Not an easy thing to quantify.

    Your only retort is to bad mouth em as much as possible. I personally would boycott them if I'm in the vicinity just because. I have no tolerance for rude service regardless of how good the food is.

  • Making me feel embarassed infront of my relatives and making my relatives feel embarassed infront of all the customers sitting out the front

    I expect the other customers were embarrassed too! Might even put some of them off from returning.
    I wonder if he was really responding to a single bad incident with a previous Chinese group, or if there was more to it.
    But if it was a one-off incident, why get upset? Plenty more places on Lygon St, and his loss too.

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