Moved to Forum: Original Link
Firstly, I'm not sure if this is a deal or a forum topic. I'll leave it to the mods.
This is awesome news for people that live in a Zone 2 area, as you will now be paying far less for travel into Zone 1. The saving is around $2.50 for a two hour full fare and $5.00 for a daily fare. Gowrie & Upfield commuters rejoice! And the free tram travel is the icing on the cake. Well done PTV!
Merry Christmas everyone :)
I think I actually agree with you jv, and have reported my own post :)
and have reported my own post
that's very noble of you Sir TA…
Knock it off you guys, there are a few more sleeps to go yet.
LOVE YOU DANIEL ANDREWS!!! <3333 LABOR!!!!
until he screws you…
i don't trust him as far as i could through him.
And how far is that Sir jv?
probably twice as far since he lost all that weight after hiring his 'image consultant' earlier in the year…
its actually Dame JV
Through what?
I can't trust you either with your poor spelling.
And good on him for losing weight. Is that such a bad thing?
Go back to reading Bolt - he'll tell you what to think.
FYI - This was a Napthine promise , price-matched by Andrews. Just thought I'd mention. ;)
what happened to the 5% off the price match ???
Oops.. Looks like fares are going up again in January….
SCREW YOU DANIEL ANDREWS!!!
Who is this 'Napthine' you mentioned?
Never heard of him? Did we vote him in or something?
From 1 January 2015, public transport fares across Victoria will rise by an average of 2.5% plus Consumer Price Index (CPI) of 2.3%.
the free CBD and reduced 1+2 fare isn't free
Daniel and his old colleagues gave us myki, Dennis gave us this free cbd travel and zone 1 expansion. Get it right
Dennis and his colleagues also fought with paramedics and hid ambulance waiting times, crime statistics and the East West Link documents. The state would have been paying the dud tunnel off for 56 years and it would've led to higher tolls and even more health and education cuts. I hope no one wants to send their kids to tafe or uni which the Liberals are gutting.
It's clear Victoria dodged a bullet by getting rid of the dud and secretive Liberal party
Atleast the tunnel would have been used, Its better than paying for a desal plant which no one uses and a myki system which no one wanted.
@gaurav1504: Now you mention the desal plant - what the ?? I just clean forgot it existed. Is it even in use? Completed? or alreday gathering rust in its pipes due to salt water deposits. And then it cannot be used when it is needed. You and I are paying high water bills to finance this white elephant. But you already know that I guess.
Say hello to even more CBD tram overcrowding.
they'll probably reduce the number of trams too, now that they'll be free..
Yarra Trams, Metro and Buslines don't make money from fares
They get paid by service
the fares go to the government to apparently reinvest
There is no incentive to cut services
All CBD trams will end up like the City Circle ones, jam packed and can't get on!
Even more reason to leg it.
All the MYKI investment… How much money will they simply pocket from people not having to use it any more….
Great news for all regular travellers. Transport costs always add up for full fare tickets.. takes around 6-8% of your salary if you're in a low earning job. Also great for students.
Well it's bad news for Zone 1 only travellers who's ticket price will go up to fund rail in zone 2, and regular travellers who have daily's or greater will have no benefit from free cbd trams as they've already paid the max fare for the day.
The only people who benefit from this is Zone 1+2 travellers for a year or two until the price of a zone 1 ticket climbs higher than what a zone 1+2 ticket currently costs.
Yeah its ridiculous that someone travelling from North Melbourne to the city will be paying the same price as someone travelling from Werribee to the city.
I'm probably one of the few that reckons there should be more zones (like 4 or 5), like most other major cities. And the cheapest zone should be less than the current zone 1 fare.
The free CBD tram thing will only benefit tourists, or those that drive to work and want to get around during the day. Its definitely a good thing for tourists though because the hassles and cost of getting a Myki is a joke if you don't live in Melbourne, since there is no other ticket option.
Depends what way you look at it. that argument works both ways
Supply and demand
North Melbourne to City is highly dense and popular
That person boarding in North Melbourne takes the same amount of space then anyone else
Why should they get a discount?
What grips me is the concession ticket holders!
Students, working adults dont take 50% of the space of a full fare paying person.
Concession should only be valid at offpeak times
North Melbourne to City is highly dense and popular
North Melbourne also has at least 4 different lines? Maybe more I'm just going off memory. There's more options of getting to the city you're not just relying on one line. If you take this into account, I don't believe that being highly dense makes a difference.
That person boarding in North Melbourne takes the same amount of space then anyone else
Why should they get a discount?
Because you're on the train for a shorter period of time? This logic seems to work in cities like London & Paris who have vastly superior public transport compared to Melbourne in my opinion.
And actually most people getting on closer to the city don't get a seat heading inbound during peak times, compared to people from the complete other side of the city who get to sit down for their whole journey.
Perth has 7 or 8 (can't remember) zones, plus bus ride in the cbd are free. Bit of column a, bit of column b haha
Yeah its ridiculous that someone travelling from North Melbourne to the city will be paying the same price as someone travelling from Werribee to the city.
Honest question, but if you live in North Melbourne, why don't you just get a bike? For the cost of around two months of tickets, you can have free transport to the city until you break your bike.
You'll save time too, you won't have to wait around for the train and you can get straight to your workplace.
I was just thinking they should bring back some kind of short trip ticket (I recall using them 20 years ago), up to 3 stops, train or tram (I think bus too).
Then I found this:
The government has 60 million short-term paper myki tickets in storage but has refused to use them.
Source: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/premier-rules-out-shortter…
Not everyone will be able to store a bike at their workplace or have access to shower facilities - or do they just spend the whole day stinking of B.O. after the ride in? Serious question.
@carlb:
actually the person getting on in north melb has buckleys of getting a seat ever, so they are taking less space and getting a worse ride
Get real, North Melbourne to CBD is like a 15 minute walk.
Do you shower every time you move your leg?
@carlb: by this logic overly obese people should pay more for their ticket because they occupy more space?
My understanding of bringing in a "smart" card system was to charge people for the amount of time/distance they use PT for. Surely travelling further consumes more resources than travelling a short distance, why should people living 1 station away from the city pay the same fare as someone living 25 stations away.
P.S. I live in Z2.
It was just a suggestion or an alternative. Bike storage is an issue, but it's improving.
From North Melbourne to the centre of the CBD is no more than around 3.5km. That's like 15 minutes of cycling, max. Cycling is no more tiring than walking, so if you don't pretend like you're Cadel Evans in the TDF, which a whole lot of cyclists do, then you can get there feeling great and refreshed and without needing to take a shower.
When I was in high school, I cycled around 2km a few times, 10 minutes of very light exercise. If such a short distance makes you break a sweat then you really should work on your fitness.
@Drew22:
lol 15 minutes
https://www.google.com.au/maps/…
BTW that North Melbourne example I used was just for arguments sake. There are other scenarios where this new pricing system seems ridiculous. Someone living in say Albert Park area and wants to go to the MCG to see a game. That's the same price for a <5km trip vs someone living in Frankson which is ~50kms away!
@neos: No, you just need to walk to the edge of the CBD, wherein you can hop on a tram (for free). So 15 mins seems like a reasonable estimate.
It depends where in North Melbourne you are and where in the CBD you're going.
My walk was 1.4km so yeah 15 minutes with traffic lights.
@paulsterio: Again North Melbourne was just an example to highlight the argument in my first post. Getting sidetracked talking about alternative methods of getting to the city to get around what I'm arguing is a flawed pricing system.
If I live one stop before in Footscray what then? I'm going to walk in? No. Ride a bike? Maybe…but more than likely no I'd be pay full fare and catch a train. The same fare someone 50kms out would pay.
@neos: But the argument is that whether you come in from Footscray or Werribee is irrelevant.
A service runs from Werribee to Footscray. It costs Metro the same amount if everyone got off at Footscray or if everyone got off at Werribee because the service still has to run.
So the costs of such service should be borne equally amongst those who use the service, i.e. you're using a service just like the guy living in Werribee.
This isn't a taxi, where it just goes where you want it to go, this is a public service for all people to use.
@paulsterio: If its irrelevant I wonder why metlink back in the day had a 3 zone system for a train network that was not as expanded as it is now? Certainly when I was in London there was no one fare philosophy. They must be throwing money away with their underground service.
A service runs from Werribee to Footscray. It costs Metro the same amount if everyone got off at Footscray or if everyone got off at Werribee because the service still has to run.
This logic is also flawed. The service is designed to meet the demand. If everyone all of a sudden got off at Footscray for some reason, there would be less services going to Werribee or it would be stopped all together. It costs more to maintain those extra tracks, electricity, maintenance costs, etc. Hence why most cities I'm familiar with has some sort of fare based on the number zones you travel through or number of stops.
If all of a sudden there was a spike in people travelling to/from Werribee, there would be extra services to meet those demands. Not only that but probably services that run express most the way, that doesn't make a difference for someone living in Middle Footscray, West Footscray, etc where the service would most likely pass through. Why should those additional running costs be passed onto someone travelling 5kms out from the CBD?
Why should those additional running costs be passed onto someone travelling 5kms out from the CBD?
I think this is similar to people who are not going to use the east west link, still pay for it either via tax hikes or hikes in registration etc.
It isn't that much of an increase for zone 1 only travellers. Not many people travel zone 1 only anyway in comparison to zone 1+2 travellers. The benefits it has for zone 1+2 travellers is worth the drawbacks from zone 1 only travellers.
I think the free trams will mostly benefit tourists and people residing in the city. Melbourne is behind in free travel within the CBD compared to other major cities. A top 10 city should have free CBD travel.
Do you have numbers to back up that claim? Seeing as all trams are in zone 1 and zone 1 residential is far denser than zone 2, I highly doubt there are more zone 1+2 travelers.
Zone 1 fares are going up 5% this year, it will probably be more next year.
Other things like removing sunday savers and cutting the 2 hour ticket down to exactly 2 hours are other way's they're increasing the fare cost without making it obvious.
I did forget about the tourists, though it makes it even more complicated for them as they will need to work out if they're travelling outside the free-zone and still organise a myki in-case. I'm sure there'll be plenty of inspectors hanging out at the first stop outside the free zone
Well the ticket prices (and literally anything else to do with living in Aus) seem to go up every year anyway. I live in zone 1 and despite this, I am actually happy that zone 2 commuters get the same fares, as pretty much anyone who doesn't want an insane mortgage has been priced out of zone 1, so apart from costing zone 2 residents more time, I think this is a good way of lessening a wealth divide forming/enlarging.
So how much is a zone1+2 daily going to be in 2015? $10?
It will just be a full fare daily at around $7.30 and will let you travel across the entire network. You can still purchase a cheaper zone 2 only ticket at around $5 if you don't enter zone 1 during your trip.
Thanks TA. What would I do without you , mate? :)
What would I do without you
Probably have a lot more money :)
@JJB,
What would I do without you , mate? :)
Erm, use a calculator? :P I'm pretty sure that's how TA did it
Edit:Flat-out day at the office? o.O
Flat-out day at the office? o.O
Nah. I'm having a Don Draper Day : left my family to come into the office to work…and instead of getting any actual work done, I'm lazing around on my office couch, playing with my OPO :)
What would I do without you
Go fishing
$7.52 to be exact =)
And because they get on the train first out there in zone 2, they nab all the seats too. Ha ha ha ha.
You said you were 14!
But you have a wife and two kids.
I'm from Dandenong.
What is zone 1 and 2? It's just some arbitrary line on a map that says u pay more on this side and less on this side.
So what do people do? They see this, and simply drive a few Kms down and reap the cheaper price, causing a bottle neck at the zone 1 cut off. Clearly a artificial inefficiency brought on by ourselves. Thank god someone had enough brains to do away with it.
Agreed I have written to members of different areas I have lived near these trouble changeovers
East Malvern, Chelsea, Bentleign, Glen Iris and neighbouring stations are all victims to being excessively crowded
including heavy congestion of the suburban and arterial roads services and facilities
This congestion is mostly caused with drivers trying to save a couple bucks skipping their local facilities.
This is proved by examples of Patterson, Jordinville Stations with hundreds of empty car spaces every morning but the 3 overlap stations parked illegally where every they can find
The 1+2 overlap should have ben considerably increased to up to 10 stations versus current 2-3
removing the false economy incentive to save $3 at First Zone 1 at the expense of considerable cost to the community through congestion and negating the $3 by using their car
Wow, I never thought that. I live in one of those suburbs you mention above with the Zone 1/2 overlap and there is no parking at the station park, nor the surrounding streets! I guess the good thing now is that car park space may be freed as commuters park within their suburbs.
Here's the link to the full fare changes that will be happening next year!!!!
http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/Uploads/Public-Transport-Victor…
Thank you!
Great… about $23 for 2 adults and 2 kids to come into the city on a weekend…
Better of driving…
So much for improving public transport from the Labor government… More cars on the road, less freeways…
Sure, until you factor in parking costs.
Can park in the CBD around $10 on weekends anyway, so its still cheaper / same price and more convenient to drive.
Travelled to Melbourne last week for 6 days (tiger $100 vouchers) It was cheaper to hire a car for the 6 days than for a group of 3 to travel from Tullamarine to Inverlock return by bus
Current Zone 1 fare is $7.16. New fare will be $7.52. so…that's a 5% increase?! 2.7% above CPI!!! How can they justify such an increase and have then tell us that we're better off?!
Welcome back to the Labor government…
It was part of their original contract with Myki to screw the people of Victoria.
This is correct, they are still trying to claw back the wasted millions or was it bbillions on that smart card system. Don't get me started on the desal project. I can't believe we voted back in labour, I can probably thank Geoff Shaw for that.
Better yet to come. I think Abbott will lose the next election and it will be one big happy Labor family again. Voters forget very quickly you see, and they forgive easily too.
@momov3: Just curious, what part of his job do you think Abbott and his ministers are doing well at?
@wasabinator: the only thing I can think of is (and this is iffy as well as we do not know real figures) - curbing the boat people aka illegal asylum seekers and queue jumpers. You agree don't you that the situation was getting out of control under Rudd and Gillard? But he has now nullified anything good he may have done by allowing higher education fees to skyrocket under his policies.
Was just as bad under the Libs:
http://www.ptua.org.au/myths/cheap/
Transport's literally NEVER been cheap in Melbourne.
It is 2.5% + CPI
If you buy pass for 28 - 365 days, it will cost 4.5$ / day
True but I only travel to the CBD, 3 days per week.
I hope the free travel before 7am is not being taken off.
The free CBD travel is going to be nice for those like me who travel before 7.
Meanwhile in Sydney…
I assume fare prices are going up like mad as well? Inflation, Aus style and all that. At the moment this is 'good' for a segment of Melbourne commuters, but the rate of inflation of ticket prices is just nuts.
I grew up in Sydney (now a resident of Melbourne) and remember my weekly ticket from Strathfield to city was $15/week. When I moved out of Strathfield not 10 years later it seemed to be able double.
rant mode There's no way in hell the inflation rate is the 2-3%pa the RBA likes to pretend!
Tickets are still expensive, but only some modes of transport are increasing this year (probably to promote opal)
I live in Zone 2 but I still think this is the most retarded fare system in the world. Theoretically a passenger would be able to travel from Pakenham all the way to Werribee almost a 100KM journey and pay the same price as someone going 1 station from Richmond to Flinders St!?!?? The fares are gonna go up for EVERYONE cause it wont be sustainable. Also if they were gonna do all this then why spent Billions on Myki in the first place? Since ya know, tap-off is not even required anymore if you travel in Zone 1/1+2 daily both ways and everyone pays a single price.
I think now that they have Myki everyone should be paying per kilometre traveled with a cap off if you travel more than X km in one day so save you some money. I am not talking ridiculous fares but I think something like $1 flag-fall + 15c/km would work really well. Someone living 20km away would pay $4, someone that takes a 1 station ride from Richmond to CBD would pay at the most $1.30. Isn't that more fair for everyone?
So you want to keep Zone 2 and bring back Zone 3 ?
More like 10's of zones.
Have you thought of the impact it would have on the whole city? It will become more of an incentive for everyone to move closer to the city. Potentially leading to overcrowding in the city, crowded schools, crime etc like other cities.
With the current approach it's taking out one more cost factor and allowing people to spread out.
It is how it works in almost every city in the world (including Australian cities like Sydney) that has multiple zones effectively paying more the further you go. I don't see what the issue is. It works, you get what you pay for, just like every other service. None of that will happen. All this new scheme is gonna lead to is possibly some fare evasion for 1-2 stop travellers and everyone's fares being put up cause it costs the same to ride the train for 1km as it does for 100km from 1 Jan 2015 - so either everyone is paying too much or too little.
Tell me do you pay the same fare to take a Taxi 1km and 100km? Or is PTV considered a tax that everyone pays so the same logic doesn't apply?
DO NOT talk about Sydney fares, they are stupidly complicated.
A simple system like we have in Melbourne is great, one of the best in the world for a somewhat low density metropolis.
DO NOT talk about Sydney fares, they are stupidly complicated.
Thank you. Completely agree with this.
Now you can buy just a Zone 1 ticket daily and travel around Melbourne as much as you want for the entire day. Extremely convenient and just makes perfect sense for people who might have to take multiple legs.
E.g. Taking a bus and then a train and then another bus…etc. is really cheap in Melbourne because of this system.
Fat chance. Having incentive to move close to city is one thing, being able to AFFORD a suburb within Zone 1 is another. Maybe when the young generation make their first $2m. I would prefer to be living in Zone 1 and pay the new higher fare anytime than be in Zone 2 further from the city. Even the train ride in is a pain. But I can see how the standard 1/2 fare may bring in those unsavory elements from outer zones more frequently into the city, now that it's cheap to train into the city.
There are a lot more drivers for people to move away from the city, schools, access to parks, beach, a bigger backyard, heck even trees. Its naive to say that people would move closer to the city to "save" on PT. Besides not everyone can afford to live in the inner suburbs.
Incentive for everyone to move closer to the city
You mean it will help curb the massive problem of urban sprawl we currently have in Melbourne and the lack of land available for residential zoning?
Sounds like a great idea to me, just swap in the Oyster card system that can handle multiple zones and everyone will benefit.
The problem with your suggestion is that you forget MYKI was not designed to cope with such complexities. And the authorities whoever they may be will get wind that it's not profitable to charge this way and there will be steep price rises to compensate for those inequalities. I think commuters from Zone 2 going into the city will not get to rejoice for too long.
jv on 18/12/2014 - 20:55 Comment score below threshold.
