Car park Accident (help)

ameel on 14/09/2014 - 17:49
Last edited 14/09/2014 - 19:03

Hi fellow ozbargainers, I need your help.

Following minor car park accident happened:

  1. Went to carwash about 2:45pm. Finished washing about 3:25pm
  2. Noticed a paint-like mark on RHS of car, and was promptly fixed (by a wiped) by Employee A.
  3. Employee A and I went around car and inspected rest of car, no issues.
  4. Arrived at woolworths about 3:40pm, parked (reverse) next to a car on RHS, and no car on LHS, in front of glass-wall of shop.
  5. Finished paying (receipt says 3:57pm), and walking towards exit. Through glass-wall saw taxi on LHS of car. Passenger getting into the car, but opened the door very wide ( it looked like the door hit my car).
  6. Went out and noticed 1 mark/dent on LHS, which seemed to match just about where the door would have opened and hit.
  7. Stopped taxi from leaving, explained the situation to taxi driver.
  8. Lady passenger started yelling and said "I didn't hit your f*cking car".
  9. The taxi guy didn't really get to speak, because the lady passenger kept yapping.
  10. I asked the taxi for the insurance details but he wouldn't give me. I noted his number plate and his taxi licence ID.
  11. The woman kept going on and said other foul words including "You are a dick".
  12. The taxi drove off without giving me any details.
  13. I went back to the carwash, spoke to the manager who called Employee A (the employee who inspected the car with me).
  14. Before anything was explained, Employee A immediately went the RHS of car and said the paint-like mark was gone (i.e. he recognised me/my car and remembered the inspection).
  15. Told him what happened, and he looked at the mark and confidently said the mark was fresh and he didn't see that before I left.
  16. Manager (and also owner who was briefed) and Employee A are happy to give testimony that they inspected my car and that particular scratch was not there.
  17. I've got my carwash receipt with location + time, got my woollies receipt with location + time.
  18. Not including travel time + grocery time , my car had left carwash at 3:20pm, and left woollies (and saw accident) about 3:47pm.
  19. Allowing a travel time (15 minutes), that's about 12 minutes my car was in the park when the accident happened.
  20. Not particularly relevant, but I also remember overhearing the passenger when I was in the supermarket isle asking one of the employees for a certain item, mentioning " A taxi is waiting for me" the employee wasn't sure where the item was.

Now, I've got comprehensive insurance with excess which I would rather not use.
I also have a small repairs/damage insurance with excess of about $50. So worst case I can use that and get the damage fixed.

However, in principle I witnessed the damage, and have enough evidence to prove the damage was not there but occurred within the 12 minutes I was in the supermarket when the taxi was next to me.

As far as I understand, if I want to claim this from the taxi's insurer, I have to claim directly and cannot use my insurance (is this correct?), i.e. I would have to go through a small-claims tribunal of some sort? (btw I'm new to Victoria and I'm not familiar with their legal system, although I suspect it would be similar to most places).

At this stage, I'm tempted to approach and speak to the taxi company directly, and inform them of my intentions to lodge a claim (through a tribunal?), but would rather resolve and settle with them directly if it's
agreeable.

Any ideas of how I should approach this matter and what other evidence I might require?

Or should I just let them go scott-free, and pay off my $50 insurance for small damage repair claim?

Automotive

Comments

  • pjetson on 14/09/2014 - 18:20
    +2

    As far as I understand, if I want to dispute this

    Dispute what? I think you're using the wrong term.

    As far as I can tell from your explanation, you have no proof of anything, just an assumption. Perhaps someone else did the damage before the taxi was there. You have no witnesses, and the person in the taxi denied doing the damage.

    So, as I see it, your choices are to claim it on your insurance, or to make a claim against the taxi company. To claim against the taxi company, I suspect you'll have to take legal action, which will cost you money.

    My personal opinion is that if you're right about only needing to pay a $50 excess, you should take that option. You should make sure, though, that you will not end up paying extra by losing your no claims bonus.

    • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 18:55

      Yes, correct. I've edited OP to reflect correct terms.

      Definitely no point to claim under CTP. I have another separate "small damage repair" insurance under which I can claim for about $50 excess (they term it as a $50-only fee, but it's really just an excess).

      You are right in that someone else might have done the damage in the 12 minute window that the car was unattended, although I am aware that:
      1) the passenger lady was in the shop for at least 5 minutes (before I left the shop and saw the same lady passenger getting on the car) (leaving a window a maximum of 7 minutes for another car to have come and gone)
      2) I saw the passenger lady, through the glass window, open the taxi door wide and hit my car.

      You are also right in that a claim would be through legal action (through a small claims tribunal??), unless the taxi wants to resolve it without doing so.

      • pjetson on 14/09/2014 - 20:50

        Legal action would be through the courts. The taxi company will likely deny any responsibility, so you will need to sue them.

        You've now changed your story to say that you saw the lady hit the door against your car. If you can't get your story straight here, I don't see you having much hope of proving anything in court.

        • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 21:56

          It looked like it hit my car from inside woolies looking out. I only confirmed it did hit after I saw the damage that aligned with where the passenger door would hit if opened wide.

          I know you can begin a small claim in tribunal (at least in the ACT). I thought there would be a similar regime in VIC?

  • dylanando on 14/09/2014 - 18:41

    any cameras in the carpark?

    • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 18:55

      I'm not sure. I'll go find out tomorrow

  • endotherm on 14/09/2014 - 18:52

    When you say "it looked like the door hit my car" did you just assume it hit it or did you see it hit, or behave like it hit (e.g. stopped suddenly, saw your car shake, anything else dissimilar to a car door normally extending fully open)? Your avatar says you are from ACT but I assume this happened in Victoria. You could approach the Victorian Taxi Directorate and explain the situation. Taxis are required to have video recordings while carrying passengers and the recording may be able to determine if the door actually made contact. Did you inspect the taxi door to see if there was any corresponding damage? You could also check the area where you parked to see if there are any CCTV cameras, and approach the operator for assistance. I think you would be pushing it to lay blame without directly witnessing it or having a recording. The other parties have denied involvement, and as such would not be compelled to give you any details. As the damage wasn't caused directly by the taxi driver, I doubt they would accept liability unless they had some arrangement where they also cover acts by their passengers. If I were the passenger and knew I'd caused the damage, I would probably want to pay my fare in cash so there was no trail as to my identity so no-one could follow up. However there may be some identity on record if they rang to book the taxi, gave a destination, or if they actually paid the fare on credit card/cabcharge etc. I agree it is the principle of the thing and I'd be annoyed too, but in a detached manner you need to ask yourself is it worth the grief and running around if the damage is relatively minor and inexpensive?

    • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 19:01

      thanks for that.

      Certainly a question i'm asking myself (whether it's worth the grief) to pursue further.

      You've raised some interesting points, and I'll call up the taxi directorate to find out more. Will also see whether the taxi company has any recording.

      Also, yes I'm in Victoria atm.

      I did see the door open and lay against my car while the lady passenger was getting in. I did not see my car physically move. My friend also saw the taxi car door against mine.

      Re liability, I would think the taxi's insurance would cover off the passenger as well, and it would be up to the taxi's insurer to claim against the passenger, but I could be wrong.

      I have now also reported it to police so I can get insurance details for the taxi, but again the question begs "is it worth the grief?" to proceed any further.

      At this time, I'm thinking making some inquiries with the taxi directorate might be good. And also contacting the taxi company directly and informing them on my intentions and seeking a 'friendly' settlement might be good too.

  • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 19:03

    To be honest, I was prepared to just ignore it all and pay $50 when I was approaching the taxi. I thought I'd just let them know what happened so they are more careful next time.

    But it really put me off when the lady passenger started yelling and swearing.

  • boonanza on 14/09/2014 - 20:17
    -1

    I don't think your telling the full story

    • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 21:53

      What do you mean?

      Went for carwash, clean and sparkling. Grocery shopping. Before out of building saw lady passenger getting into taxi, opening door wide and hitting my car (it looked like it hit, but I wasn't sure until I went outside to inspect if there was any damage). Went out noticed damaged. Approached taxi before it left to inform them. Lady passenger (defensively my friend puts it) aggressively starts yelling and swearing (which makes me think she knows what she did but panicked and reverted to aggressive behaviour). Taxi driver wouldn't give me insurance details and took off.

      What do you think I'm missing?

      edit: if you're implying i'm leaving some info on purpose, that's not correct. I have no reason to. I've done a couple of very minor scratches myself in the past. I did get them fix at my cost. Money isn't a problem. It's just a matter of principle and the fact that lady passenger really put me off that i'm bothered with this atm.

  • Cheeper on 14/09/2014 - 22:00
    +1

    I am assuming this is a fairly new and expensive car?
    If not then forget it and move on because your car will get knocked in every shopping centre in the country.
    I have sat and watched people in car parks… ramming trollies into cars without a care, throwing doors open onto others, letting their little darlings run their toy car up the side of cars, etc…
    Unless you intend to never park in such a place then best to just live with the attitude of people these days. Most do not give a rats behind about damaging your property.

    • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 22:04
      +2

      It's not too exp, but under 1 year. I JUST HAD IT WASHED AND SPARKLING!!!! And I didn't even get to enjoy half an hour of it :'(

      edit: tomorrow i'll make up my mind (after chatting with few parties) what do do. If I decide not to take it further, I'll get it fixed anyway. it's just $50, not much money.

      • Cheeper on 14/09/2014 - 22:22

        Hard to avoid such things these days.
        Best to preserve sanity and live with it :-(

        My $40k car was keyed only a few weeks after I got it. Such is life these days… LOL

        • ameel on 14/09/2014 - 22:27

          you should get a qu4ttro membership (i think that's what it's called) for cheap small damage repair.

  • Geewhizz on 15/09/2014 - 02:50

    I'm inclined to say pay the $50 and move on.

    While the attitude of the cabbie and his passenger would certainly be a big motivating force in wanting to see justice done, it is going to cost you in time and $ to chase them up for it, and even then, at the end of the day, because the damage is so minor and would be covered by excess the insurance companies are not likely to get involved, so you'd still be stuck with having to chase up the cabbie himself, and there is nothing to say he is even the owner of the car.

    • ameel on 15/09/2014 - 08:12

      You're right. Waking up this morning I'm over it already. It will be too much effort to proceed with it, and achieve no VFM.

      I reckon It's a unfortunate the wrongdoers go unpunished, but the onus on the victim to make them accountable is too stringent and demanding.

      Ah well, will fork in the cash and get it fixed soonish. Don't want any rust on the car, sigh…

      Edit: had a such look and Proceeding any further would require I lodge a claim in the magistrates court.

      So much effort and it would be quite hard to prove, mehh ..

      Kk well its decided I guess. Thanks all for your input!

  • backpaqer on 15/09/2014 - 09:36

    As an interesting comparative story. My wife got a card from the police saying "please contact". So she did. They said she had been involved in an accident. She hadn't to her knowledge so went straight around to the cop shop to talk to them about it. Apparently someone thinks she hit their car and drove off (hit and run). First we knew about it. Cop goes out and takes photos of our car…no damage to our car. Cop is confused. Wife is insistent that although she was in the alleged area at the time, remembers a near-miss, she's certain there was no touch. Anyway, cop obviously gets tired of me asking how can there be an impact if there is no damage to our car…there's a fair bit of paint on the other party's car…and we neither have lost any paint nor gained any paint on our car. The paint left on the other car is not the right colour also. Cop charges my wife with leaving the scene of an accident anyway and she now has to go to court. 3rd party sent a letter of demand for less than what our insurance excess is but this is rubbish so I pushed the claim through to our insurer as a "defensive claim" and they've inspected our car and said we've hit nothing. Wife is super-stressed over the whole debacle and just wants the whole episode behind her and is prepared to plead guilty to the charge as it means that it is dealt with quickly and she doesn't have to put in a repeat appearance - her other options are to ask for a diversion, but as that involves the 3rd party accepting the diversion it is unlikely as we've lodged the defensive claim and they are not getting any money out of this. She could plead not guilty as she clearly was unaware any accident occurred and the insurance co says that no accident involving our car has occurred - but that involves getting the police informant and the 3rd party to turn up to court at a later date and while it would be an easy win - she just can't handle the stress of having to deal with someone convinced that the police believe she is a liar.

    Not sure if I can simply take the insurance company report on our car to the police and get them to simply drop the charge.

    It's easy if you're the victim…if you're the defendant, it almost seems like you have to prove your innocence these days.

    • ameel on 15/09/2014 - 10:43

      Re the charges, you can contact the prosecutor (not the police) and supply a stat declaration stating the facts as they happened (with all the relevant dates and times) (i.e. your wife's whereabouts on day of accident, no damage to car upon inspection with insurance report attached, and police said "XXX" which showed he was confused why there was no damage). In the letter accompanying the stat dec, you then request that the prosec accept your version of the events (based on your wife's stat dec) and dismiss the charges. I reckon it's worth a shot.

      • backpaqer on 16/09/2014 - 07:56

        How does one contact the prosecutor? Only way I see it is to turn up to court on the day and ask for a pre-trial conference and see where that leads. As I said, she just wants the issue gone - but I think pleading guilty to something you are technically not guilty of makes things really confusing.

        • backpaqer on 16/09/2014 - 10:37

          Thanks for the suggestion ameel…brilliant!
          I did a bit of digging and found this
          So I've made contact and hopefully they will provide some useful directions.

        • backpaqer on 16/09/2014 - 15:27

          They got back to me…not a very intelligent response I'm afraid. No help at all.

        • ameel on 18/09/2014 - 19:43

          @backpaqer:
          Are you serious? That sucks. Based on what you have said, they should be able to drop the charges.

          You sure you contacted the prosecution right?
          You should draft a stat dec with all the details as your wife recalls it with all evidence and request in a letter accompanying the stat dec that they dismiss the charges.
          This letter and stat dec should be addressed to the prosecution for your case (you should have contact details of the prosecutor and reference number for the case on the court papers).
          Best of luck, and keep us informed?

    • idonteven on 17/09/2014 - 21:46

      If your wife pleads guilty, that's a permanent stain on her record. No idea how the cop could charge her with leaving the scene. Get your insurance company report and see what the cops say.

    • Ughhh on 18/09/2014 - 00:16

      Forensics can easily prove whether a collision had occurred between you and the other car. If there was a collision, there would be a transfer of paint, and from the paint, forensics can use electron microscopes (I think) to compare the layers of that paint to your cars paint. This method can differentiate between different models and approximate year of car (even if its plain red car).

      There's probably a very low chance of the mysterious car who actually hit them drove the same year and model car as you. So in my opinion, assuming your story is true, science has got your back. Now sure how the courts work, but I guess maybe you can request forensic analysis?

      • backpaqer on 19/09/2014 - 09:24

        Would be nice if we had a passionate CSI team at our disposal…unfortunately, the cop follows a very thoughtless script in his head that he needs to book someone for something and has a cheap camera and poor camera skills and my wife just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm hoping that the magistrate is as good as the one I had when I got off a speeding fine and the police were sent packing with their tails between their legs.

  • milfey on 16/09/2014 - 09:19

    Judging from all these stories, I think I'm going to stick to 2nd hand dinged up cars from now on.

    • backpaqer on 16/09/2014 - 10:39

      I was sitting in my car in a shopping centre carpark once and another car pulls in beside and the driver opens the door hard into my car…not just a soft tap either…so I'm all on the horn and then WTF?!?!? and the guy tries to say it didn't happen!!! Serious d*cks out there!

  • Ughhh on 16/09/2014 - 12:01
    +1

    Best way to avoid or minimise the chance of these situations is to park far away from entrances. Or to park next to expensive new cars, as they are more likely to be more careful with opening doors.

    • ameel on 16/09/2014 - 22:24

      I agree with your comment. I'll have to be more careful when I park from now on.

      What I usually try to go for is reverse park so that on my right is a car that went head in and on the left a car that's reverse parallel. There's a good chance they don't carry passengers and they won't even open the doors.

      If available, I also look for the crammed park next to a column or post or tree so I know the vehicle on the other side will tend to stay further away or be careful.

      If available, I also try to park next to the wall on one side, as close as possible to the wall.

      It's a bit annoying, but mehh..

  • ameel on 19/09/2014 - 10:35

    FML. My small damage repair insurance can't fix this since it's actually scratched the paint off my car. If I leave it as it is, it will likely rust.

    No idea how much it will cost to fix, but I'm guessing in the few hundreds. FML

    • ameel on 19/09/2014 - 11:21

      So it's an excess of $500.

      It will very easily be a "not at fault" claim, and hopefully if the insurance can recover from the taxi, I can get my excess money back. sigh

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join