Fined for forgetting to bring a student pass?

L[Deactivated] on 26/08/2014 - 17:18
Last edited 26/08/2014 - 18:54

Guys I need your opinion on this.

I'm a high school student and every morning I would travel by train to school. Today, I forgot to bring my school pass so I couldn't go through the ticket machine. Obviously, I had no choice but to go through the gate that could be manually open by the train officer. So i went through and suddenly this old man held me back (this was a different guy, not the train officer). Initially he asked for my school pass and I said that I forgot to bring it and left it in my sport uniform but I have my previous school pass for 2013. I gave it to him and then he asked for my identity, my concession card, age and school. Next thing he said was: I'm going to fine you. I asked why. He then told me that since you're over 16, you should be able to remember to bring it. After that he took a picture of my concession card (that has my home address on it) and school ID card and said the fine will be mailed to you or you can appeal. WHAT THE BLOODY FREAK.

I thought that this guy was so unfair (and such an asshole). I mean like tons of students go through the gate and I don't see them get stopped and fined for not bringing a pass. Secondly, the guy didn't even warn me at all. (sort of like - if i see you do this again, i'll fine you) Thirdly, most train officers would tell you to back back and buy a ticket. This guy was so unreasonable. Forgetting to bring a pass - i mean we're all human. We all forget things.

I think I should appeal. BTW, I have no idea how much the fine is gonna be. The guy never told me. I heard it was $200. Tell me what you guys think.

EDIT: The man I am talking about has a slightly different uniform to the train officers though I'm not sure what position.

General Discussion

Comments

  • happychild100 on 26/08/2014 - 17:21

    I'm confused, did you buy any sort of ticket or just attempt to walk through without paying? I don't know how the student system works in Sydney though..

    Edit: Or is the student card needed to prove you are a student to get the student ticket price?

    • scrimshaw on 26/08/2014 - 18:47
      +2

      It's explained here http://www.sydneytrains.info/tickets/concessions/student_rai…

      Free School Student Rail Passes are issued to eligible primary and secondary school students at the beginning of each school year…
      You can only use your pass to travel between the stations shown on the pass and your journey must commence before 7.00pm (9.30pm for TAFE students) on school days, Monday to Friday…
      need to buy a ticket if you are travelling by train to any other location or at any other time.

      Sydney Trains station staff, transport officers and police can ask to see your pass at any time.

      It does not however say who has the authority to fine you. However, the OP would in this case have to had to buy a ticket since he had forgotten the pass.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2014 - 18:51

      Each student are given student passes to allow them to travel to school for free. Everyone who travels by train should have one. The reason students are given these is for them to use the ticket machines, not for the gate. The gate is only reserved for big packages or prams, etc. (But I always see gigantic groups of students always use the gate) Anyways, concession tickets are different. Concession tickets allows students to pay the adult fare at half price ie child/student fare. Student passes are not to prove that you are a student in order to buy a student fare - that's what your school/uni ID is for.

  • YouLIKEyouLICK on 26/08/2014 - 17:23
    +31

    Just send in your copy of student card and write a letter explaining what happened on that day and they will dismiss it, worked for me.

    • Settero on 26/08/2014 - 21:04
      +5

      id do this, technically you should eat the fine and go on, one of the conditions of use is to have it on you. But if its a first time and you send a polite letter asking for leniency you might get it.

    • markj on 27/08/2014 - 23:42

      This is the best thing to do. Tell them that you took it out of your wallet/purse when you were getting out of the train and left it there whilst you were in a rush. Then say how deeply sorry you are etc. etc. and they should dismiss it. Worked for me as well. They're such bloody bastards

    • beatwixkid on 28/08/2014 - 17:28

      Yes, I was in a similar situation and sending in a photocopy of my card worked for me.

    • keenbeans on 29/08/2014 - 17:44

      I did this as well. The fine was waived after about a week, and they said they would invoke leniency this time around. (I had forgotten my concession card, but I had a ticket)

  • botftw on 26/08/2014 - 17:24
    +2

    You mention that this "old man" wasn't a train officer but a "different guy". So… are you implying that he looked like a random stranger? If so, I think that chap might have wanted to get your name and home address for some other reasons…

    Did you by any chance mean to say that he was just a station manager and not a transit officer?

    • whooah1979 on 26/08/2014 - 18:27
      +4

      did you ask this person to show you their id and badge? did you also ask this person which alleged offence (act and section) they think you may have committed?

      never show or give your id to anyone that don't have the authority to ask for it or can't show proper credentials. you're under 18 and have the right to have an adult present during an interview.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2014 - 18:39

      Sorry for the misunderstanding guys cause the man didn't wear the usually transit officer uniform. It was slightly different. But I did realise that he had this 'authority' cause transit officer who opens the gate was sitting right next to him. He may have been a station manager - got no idea.

      • swilsonau on 27/08/2014 - 08:38
        +3

        Sounds like it could have been the TfNSW Transit Officers. They wear your typical business wear and carry around Galaxy Note phones for fines

      • OzJD on 29/08/2014 - 15:55

        I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're getting your terminology mixed up.

        Had you already proceeded through the paid area or just at the gate? did you continue on your journey?

        Do yourself a favour in the future, don't let anyone take a copy of your ID (photocopy, photo, etc).

        PS. If they have the authority to issue fines, they could have given you an 'on-the-spot' fine. I can't help but wonder if it was just one of the grumpy customer service staff members (there used to be a few around that would hassle/scare school children)

  • Davo1111 on 26/08/2014 - 17:32
    +2

    How does he know you don't normally have a ticket? If i never had a ticket and walked through the gate, i'd say the exact same thing as you.

    Get your ticket (because you already have one), and send a photocopy in with your fine.

    Also, get a crappy wallet on a chain/string, attach it to your schoolbag and put your pass in there. That way, you always go to school with your bag, so you'll always have your pass.

    • SydStrand on 26/08/2014 - 20:45
      +5

      Also, get a crappy wallet on a chain/string, attach it to your schoolbag and put your pass in there.

      I really hope wallet chains don't make a comeback..

      • Davo1111 on 26/08/2014 - 21:00
        +5

        I really hope wallet chains don't make a comeback..

        comeback? you mean they're still not cool? :(

        String works fine imo. At primary school mum punched a hole in my laminated bus pass, then tied it to the bag. It stayed there all year and i never lost it

  • hj0809 on 26/08/2014 - 17:40
    +7

    1) He's not there to deliberately pick on you. He was doing his job, you just got unlucky. Not his fault, sure his attitude could be better.
    2) Probably undercover officer
    3) You can send in your student card but it may not work as this is your own liability (there is a clause)
    4) If he gave you a warning or let you purchase a ticket he would have to do it for everyone else too and then there would be no fine/punishment anymore.

  • indium on 26/08/2014 - 17:50
    +1

    If it's anything like the Victorian system it sounds like he was just trying to scare you and didn't actually have the authority himself to issue a ticket. In VIC they need to have a transit officer badge to issue a ticket, sounds like this guy just worked at the station and wasn't an officer. They also give you a written pass for the day so you don't get fined again for not having a ticket and will give you a chance to give a statement that they will write down.

    If you are actually sent a fine and your 'school pass' is like an already paid for yearly pass just contest the fine with evidence inc. your concession card and it will be revoked.

    • OzJD on 29/08/2014 - 16:00

      I'm thinking the same thing, although we do have much stricter enforcement in NSW (and many more transit officers/police that have authority).

      Also, you don't pay for a school travel card in NSW (unless it's a replacement)

  • tonka on 26/08/2014 - 18:02
    +2

    They way you have written this it sounds like you may not have been too diplomatic, you have implied some 'old man' grabbed you and kept you back. That you expect he should just let you through automatically or give you a warning without you needing to convince him you are genuine.
    You have called him an asshole not really described anything other than him doing his job.

    You've not mentioned that you explained you understood you made mistake to let him know you took it seriously, it sounded more like your expectation was 'it's no big deal everyone does it'.

    Are you sure you were respectful and gave this guy the information he needed to help you. Not many people will break the rules (ie risk their job) for someone who's not even being nice to them.

    Could be he wants you to have to write a letter so you take it seriously.

    Maybe it's just you wrote the post while cranky.

    btw, if you could travel free and just say you forgot your ticket………everyone would do it.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2014 - 18:36
      +3

      The man didn't grab me. Initially i was walking behind a little girl, as the both of us are walking through the gate and the man asked the question towards the little girl. She COMPLETELY ignored him and just walked off. After that, he looked over to me. I didn't wanna appear rude so I just told him the truth. I also gave everything he asked for and didn't say a word back. And yeah I was cranky when a wrote this.
      Thanks for the feedback.

      • tonka on 26/08/2014 - 23:01

        Cool, you needed a good vent then. Sux when you get caught in blanket rules that on a personal level can be unjust, as you said people forget things. Hope you can successfully appeal.

  • victorwilson on 26/08/2014 - 18:03
    +5

    OP, unfortunately for you, transit officers have every right to fine you if you violate the conditions of your ticket. Look at the back of the ticket. It clearly states that you must present your train pass OR pay the appropriate fare. On this occasion, you should have bought a ticket as per your ticket conditions. If you do receive the fine, pay it and treat it as a learning experience - you'll never forget to bring your train pass ever again.

    • gstfree on 27/08/2014 - 19:01

      Will be a lesson for OP, but financial penalty is not necessary.

      Once receive the infringement notice, contact the issuing agency, scan a copy of entertainment evidence and send it over to appeal for first time offender.

      This may not work if forgetting again.

  • Unorthodox on 26/08/2014 - 18:12

    Are you sure he's an officer?

  • SydStrand on 26/08/2014 - 20:42
    -1

    Happened to me in 2004. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to eat the fine. They're well within rights to fine if you can't produce a card. School travel is free, with the caveat that ID must be carried on your person at all times. Whether or not you were in uniform is irrelevant.

  • nahi11 on 26/08/2014 - 22:19
    +5

    Happened to me a week ago.

    Upload a copy of your concession card.

    You will receive a caution.

  • danield on 26/08/2014 - 22:24
    +16

    I would've thought the condition of the ticket was that you must be carrying it while using the system. Sounds like a fine is would be a likely outcome if you can't produce it when asked. A warning would be nice, however you can't expect a warning/
    Lucky your not in Vic, a gang of inspectors would have tackled you to the ground and smashed your face into the pavement while sneaking in a few sneaky punches while your down… I think they consider that a warning.

    • Unorthodox on 26/08/2014 - 22:36
      +3

      +1 for the laughs

    • GaryQ on 27/08/2014 - 09:09
      +6

      I was given a warning by Vic Transit Officers once
      Got off lightly - I only lost a kidney

  • pyro love bird on 26/08/2014 - 23:28

    Just appeal, write a letter to them explaining your situation, they will revoke the fine. Some officers are stricter than others, had the same thing happen to me so I appealed and it was fine.

  • Nero on 27/08/2014 - 01:05
    +6

    I've been in a similar situation. I'm a uni student and I use concession bus tickets. One day as I got off the bus, the ticket inspectors pulled me over, I showed them my bus ticket and he asked for my concession card (which is part of my uni card), turns out I left it at home. He wrote me an on the spot fine for $200 but explained to me how I could appeal the fine. I did so, just explained that I forgot my concession card, attached photographic evidence, and the fine was overturned a week later.

    The fine may come in the mail in a few days, for me, I received a slip of paper immediately but it may be different for trains. The fine should have instructions on how to pay it and how to appeal it.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2014 - 18:28

      Thanks mate.

  • ethereal88 on 27/08/2014 - 07:19
    +3

    Just punch him in the balls and run off. Then take a selfie and update Facebook. Isn't that what teens do nowadays?

    • Davo1111 on 27/08/2014 - 08:05
      +8 
      #yolo    #swag
    • hj0809 on 27/08/2014 - 19:21
      +1

      I have asked train inspectors what happens if someone just runs off. They told me they won't bother chasing after them… Mind you they did look slightly unfit and this is in VIC

      • Davo1111 on 27/08/2014 - 19:47

        Except "some" inspectors have the power of arrest. So yes, they "could" chase you down.

      • ATangk on 27/08/2014 - 22:12

        I read from somewhere that cityrail staff at the ticketing stations are actually told not to intervene if they see someone jumping the gate,etc.

  • lenlynn on 27/08/2014 - 08:44
    +2

    What. Just write a polite appeal letter with a copy of your updated student pass and the fine will be revoked. No biggie.

    This happened to me and another friend on separate occasions. We are in Perth and were students a few years ago though, they used to check for student passes at the Perth station so often then. The station officer was really polite in explaining how it worked and the appeal process.

  • fomal on 27/08/2014 - 09:46

    Dont worry, when the bill comes, just appeal for it. The fine will be annulled.

  • John Dough on 27/08/2014 - 10:01
    +11

    So I like did the wrong thing and they like fined me and I was like OMG they can't like fine me. #Whatevs.

  • Nutrino on 27/08/2014 - 14:06
    +1

    Why didnt you buy a ticket if you forgot your pass?.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2014 - 18:27

      I had 5 mins until the train came. The morning is like a rush hour and there's always a queue.

      • Davo1111 on 27/08/2014 - 18:49
        -2

        Hang on, your story doesnt add up.

        Do you have a current school annual train pass?

    • gimli on 28/08/2014 - 07:07
      +1

      Because it's expensive and you're a poor student. I've been in this situation and usually you forget your wallet too.

      Unless you have a kind friend you are scrwed.

      • GaryQ on 28/08/2014 - 08:53
        +3

        When I was a lad, we had cardboard term passes.

        If you left your wallet at home, one of your mates would go through the barrier and toss his wallet over the fence so you could use it as well.

        Of course, that was only if there were TIs at the station - the usual Station Guys didn't bother - 4 high schools within a kilometre of the station meant several hundred students on the platform.

        Electronic tickets are destroying mateship!

  • ReAvenger on 27/08/2014 - 17:46
    +1

    One thing to say they are sending a replacement, because your original one got stolen or something, should work most of the time, unless they really want to dig deep into the details

  • ronnknee on 27/08/2014 - 18:31
    +3

    You were in the wrong for forgetting to bring you pass that entitled you to free travel. Since you had forgotten it, the right thing to do was to purchase a train ticket. You failed to do so, that is why the transit officer had fined you. Yes, he should have been nicer about it but that does not make you any less wrong. Your next step is to write a letter and try to appeal the fine.

  • love2buy on 27/08/2014 - 19:07

    What happens if you have no id at all and refuse to give it. Can they detain you?

    • John Dough on 27/08/2014 - 19:30
      +1

      In Melbourne the authorised officers and protective services officers have the power to detain you if they are not satisfied you have correctly identified yourself or are a threat to anyone (ie drunk & violent or swearing)
      They radio the police who may arrest you if you are violent or if they believe you have fraudulently identified yourself.

      Easy way around all this is to carry ID, a valid ticket, keep your drinking to clubs and pubs, and say hello to your fellow passengers in a friendly way :)

      • John Dough on 27/08/2014 - 19:40
        +1

        Also I know for sure in Melbourne , if you have a valid ticket ie a yearly or monthly and its registered to you you can write a letter with the proof if you are caught without it and your first offence will likely be waived.
        This applies to people with a valid concession card, but didn't have it with them as well provided its first offence.

    • OzJD on 29/08/2014 - 16:03

      Yes. Last I checked the transit officers were 'Special Constables' and had the power to arrest. Oh, and there's many Transit Police (full COPS) on the trains.

  • infosec on 27/08/2014 - 22:17
    +14

    Can some people on OzBargain please have a little bit of respect regardless of whether or not it was the OP's fault. Yes, he did forget his ticket and yes he most definitely should take responsibility for it. However, using that as justification to put him down is incorrect. Comments like "Wow, mate, your future is going places, not likely to a uni though" do not help anyone, pointless insults and name calling are not helpful either.

    OP, as others have stated, you might be scared of the fine and that's fair. Tell your parents what happened, and be prepared to write an appeal letter. It's quite unlucky that the very day you didn't bring your ticket, you got fined - however, I hope it acts as a good reminder for you and teaches you a lesson about being responsible and making sure that you've got everything in order.

  • tohara on 28/08/2014 - 11:05

    why didn't you just buy a ticket?

    In other news relating to shitty ticketing systems

    In QLD they've just introduced a new card called the Tertiary Transport Concession Card. Its only available to uni students who are studying full time which generally means 3 courses per semester. So now you have to carry three cards with you, your student id, your TTCC and your student go card (nfc type card we use in qld)

    The new card was introduced in July and Qld transport had a massive back log so now bulk students have been fined or have been forced to use adult go cards.

    • Serapis on 28/08/2014 - 23:43

      Do what we did in NSW, sign up FT for the first couple weeks, get the card / sticker, then drop back to PT before census date

  • Sage on 28/08/2014 - 12:22

    That sucks. I got a fine for having misplaced my concession card.
    Now before I cross the ticketing things I look out for the myki-police guys and make sure I have my concession card ready.
    What I hate is that people like me get referred to as being "freeloaders" even though I paid for my ticket and was entitled to concession. They say the fines are to equalize profits from the fare evasion, they make all these assumptions that if you didn't have a ticket once then you're intentionally traveling without a ticket at all every day for months on end.

    In Victoria you get to appeal the first fine that you get, but after that you can't appeal it, only take it to court.

    • EnALup on 29/08/2014 - 14:46
      -1

      If you are having a concession ticket and forget the card home, how will the ticket officer decide if you are a genuine card holder or not?
      Many people buy concession tickets without even having any concession card. That is called fair evasion. Officers are doing their job.
      Before you get out to station make sure you have the card or buy the full price ticket.

  • alittlelewd on 28/08/2014 - 19:29
    -5

    It's cheapest just to kick the guy in the nuts and run away.

    Has worked for me.

    • EnALup on 29/08/2014 - 14:48

      Are you serious?
      They have cameras in the station for a reason!!

  • edgar28 on 29/08/2014 - 15:25

    I always see an old lady pretend to tag even she pays only 50 cents

    when the driver is watching, she always let other people to go in 1st (being kind? Not) When get caught she just pretend to be deaf and the driver let go move on.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/08/2014 - 18:22

    I cant stand some transit officers. I had to catch a train to get to school and i was a full time student in uniform, i had a student train ticket, valid student ID tafe and highschool but my concession card was out of date by a few days and my school wasn't giving it out till a couple of weeks later and explained to us that it's okay to still catch the bus and train with valid school ID.I Ended up getting pulled off the train by transit officers demanding ID and my train ticket. I explained to them i was heading to school and my school haven't started to hand out concession cards yet so i was holding onto a out of date concession card by a few days but they ended up giving me a $220 fine on the spot and told me to buy an adult ticket. It sucks.

    tl;dr
    full time student caught the train, didn't receive new concession card from school and got a $220 fine.

    Just get an official letter from school that you are a student and a copy of your valid concession card with a letter explaining to them what happened. Ended up dodging the fine with a caution.

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