Just received an email from redpawpaw about August box and they have added delivery fees of $7.5. Does anyone else has got such email? Are you continuing your service with redpawpaw now since they added delivery fees?
Edit: added poll.
Redpawpaw relaunched with shipping fees
pyramid on 20/07/2014 - 19:54
Last edited 20/07/2014 - 22:09
Last edited 20/07/2014 - 22:09
Poll Options
- 130I am cancelling subscription because shipping is killer.
- 5I am happy to stay and pay shipping.
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Or if they had done a gradual increase, to old subscribers and new fees to new members, it might have worked better. To be hit with such a high fee all in one then it no longer becomes fun or a necessity.
and they now lose all for being stupidly greedy!!!
They have removed the minimum $30 value in the box now, and over on their facebook page, they have said its because some months it might be under $30, and others over $30.
So some poor saps are paying upto $23 for a box worth $25-28 dollars at RRP btw.
I'm in the cheapest postage rate and on month by month. I'll give them one more go and see what the August box is like, but if its crap, I'll be dropping them!
Yeah it was fun at $5, I would have taken it for $10, but at $13 its getting a little rich. I'm also expected to provide feedback on the products etc.
So Redbox you have one last run!
Delivery fee $11.50 here in SA.
Unfortunately I'll be cancelling. Whilst there is over $16.50 of value in the box, it's unlikely to be worth $16.50 to me personally.
They have removed the min $30 value claim now!
It'd cost me $200 a year. I haven't gotten their boxes previously so I have no idea how good they are.
So fees from $7.50 to$18 plus either $5 or $10 for the goods.
Well this takes the fun out of it.
My wife said that it would go wrong after it stopped in June. First couple of boxes were great but for $12.5 to $28 depending on your subscription and location, I would say meh.
I have been a big supporter of RedPawPaw but it seems that 9000+ subscriber waiting list just kept whispering to. them to "monetize more" and so they have.
Oh well.Clever wife KT. Definitely a keeper!
That 9k waiting list will plumet when the fees come to their attention. I'm undecided wether to stay - delivery fee of $7.50. Its rather rude!!!
Yeah I'm cancelling…
it's efing rude, how would you expect a seller that suddenly send you an email for more $$$ without your agreement?
I've cancelled already.It was too good to last:-(
You think $7.50 is high mine is $9.25, to South East Melbourne, bringing the total to close to $15 in total , not sure if it's worth it anymore? Will they include more value into the boxes? Can I pick up instead of delivered, LOL. I think once those people on the waiting list know that the fees have risen, there may not be as many people interested in signing up. What do others think?
You think $9.25 is high, mine is $15! I'll just buy $20 worth of random new products each month if I feel like it. Happy to give up my spot to one of the 9000 suckers on the waiting list. I was a big supporter of this company too.
I feel for those who have to pay $5 + $18 postage, total of $23 for a total rrp $30 worth of products, WTF were they thinking? Their FB page is peeved off, big time. What about those who signed up for a yearly subscription. They have also changed their T&C to reflect this new postage charge. Not cool RedPawPaw.
mine is efing $14.50, what a joke
Psst They removed the claim to $30 value now! So the box can be anything they want now!
WOW. Redpawpaw's FB page has never been busier (or with more angry comments).Sadly,it seems that hidden amongst all those little t's & c's,this is all above board (unethical,but legal).Read http://web.archive.org/.../www.redpawpaw.com.au/terms-of-use ".So,who will stay,who will go ?
Are these the amnended T&C ?
Fair Trading kicked in now to have them disappear for Good's sake
Correct me if i'm wrong,but i don't think so.
I think it's all "above board/allowed", because they've given those that have paid for a service "in advance" that they will now no longer receive, the chance to opt out/ get their money back. Or at least that's what they're saying (see crazy-long post below for more of my thoughts on this).
I am in Brisbane delivery is $11.50
Cancelling too. I'm happy to pay $5 but $12.50 is too much for a box of unknowns.
Too bad they preferred to listen to the people complaining about delivery than to the majority.
They could have listened to both and just offered a premium delivery service to those who wanted it. We all know that the extra fees have very little to do with the courier company and lots to do with them just being greedy or having an unprofitable business model from the start.
There was no one to listen too, they just used that to blame the change on….. They have changed their tune since the first email over on the facebook page. Basically they have said they are not getting the money they thought and are losing money, so they are making people pay delivery. Moving to AusPost means they can service the entire country using one provider at 'fixed' prices.
This had nothing to do about what the people wanted and was all about them. The 'reduced' cardboard was to SAVE them money, the change in provider was to save them money! Basically they have gone form a limited delivery area to all of australia now.
I didn't get on the wagon but are people who subscribed for a year still able to cancel? It'd only be right to let them since it's not what they initially signed up for.
Yes. They are offering a refund of the entire years price.
Yes. They are offering a refund of the entire years price.
This is the only aspect of this whole "fiasco" (/scam?) that appears to be to their credit. The question is, will they actually make good on that offer, or will they declare bankruptcy instead, when it becomes clear that nearly all the "year" subscribers will cancel. I predict that well over 90% of the "year-subscribers" will cancel, because frankly, they'd be mad not to. Those dudes are likely to be the biggest winners out of this "unfortunate" (or was it planned all along?) "development"… provided they actually see the email and cancel by the specified date. This is because they will have gotten $60 worth of food delivered to their door, for free. Bear in mind, that if they decide it's worth it for them, in all likelihood they will be able to "sign-back-up" to the new deal anytime they like, AFTER they've received a FULL refund for their years' subscription. So their incentive to cancel is $50 cash back, plus the knowledge that they've already received $60 worth of food, and their incentive not to cancel is … well, almost non-existent really. It's pretty obvious the "9000" peeps on the waiting list will be reduced to "close to zero peeps", as soon as they are made aware of the new "deal".
I doubt that "RED(faced) PAW-PAW" will have the cash-reserves to refund all the year-subscribers that request it. This sad turn of events proves that either they are plain dishonest (if this maneuver was part of their "business model" all along, which is entirely possible), or they are not capable of running a business, or both. Thus, I'm predicting a complete fold/bankruptcy, once they realise they do not have the cash-reserves to pay-back ~all their year-subscribers. Bear in mind that the "yearly subscribers" cash is the only cash they would have in reserve as a result of this "venture"; the participating companies didn't pay them anything (their contribution was providing their products for free), and the "month-to-month" subscriber's cash would've been rapidly swallowed up in costs.
One last thing. To all of you OBs who "Pooh-Poohed" ( ;-) ) the deal when others were jumping on it, with sentiments akin to the old adage "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is", to you I say… "You were absolutely right. And thanks for trying to warn me; I should have known better!" Of course I guess I'll still come out on top IF the promised "full refund" is honoured, but sadly, I doubt that it will be. Can someone please remind me of this experience, the next time someone with a "cute pitch" offers to send me $30 worth of stuff every month for a year, for a grand total of $50?
The participating companies DID pay them, over and above providing the free samples. Someone on the FB page got hold of the business plans. It was something like $1.70 per sample to send them out, so, say 12 samples x $1.70 gives you around $20 profit/ box. Then, they paid extra to go in the glossy leaflet, and more still for the survey results. The business model was never to make a profit from consumers obviously. I think RRPs troubles are that not enough businesses have taken them up at the fees they were asking to enable them to send out $30 value boxes to 10,000 subscribers once a month. Hence, they've hit on consumers to underwrite their costs. Portraying the situation as a change in delivery costs alone was very deceitful, I think.
@Sweet3st: while your somewhat right, i think you have missed the bigger picture. this is the way i see it….
would you have taken up there offer originally at the new ~$20 (rather than the $5)? im betting almost no one would…
so they set the original price of $5 to get it hyped up and people talking about it/craving it, run with that for a couple of months then claim outside influences on there original model and the need to now charge the ~$20 for each box.
its the typical drug pusher MO, get people hooked then jack up the price once there is a market, simples
@nosdan: Yeah you're probably right there. There was a lot of 'if you don't like it, leave, we have a waiting list' talk. Put it this way, I don't buy the argument that they're some naive, innocent start-up that we nasty people are driving to bankruptcy. I think people realised they were being fibbed to, and used, and that's why they are angry.
I don't buy the argument that they're some naive, innocent start-up
they have already started and sold for quite a tidy profit one online grocery business as well as sarah being management for TNT freight, they knew E X A C T L Y what they were doing and had plenty of previous experience. i just cant see how this was a "mistake".
some links
http://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/online/28238-esold…
http://www.internetconference.com.au/sarah-costin.html
Sarah Costin (AUS)
Marketing Manager at Toll Consumer Delivery.
Sarah aims to help other small business owners turn their delivery service into a competitive advantage by meeting the growing expectations of their customers in the rapidly changing world of consumer delivery. Sarah was the co-founder of Off Your Trolley, an online discount grocery retailer that she and her business partner sold in 2012. In that role, Sarah discovered first hand just how important logistics is to the success of a small business, and how it can be the difference between making a profit or not.http://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahcostin
naive? hardly…. if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…………
No idea why this comment was negged.
I may just be pedantic but her work history doesn't give me a heap of confidence in redpawpaw either, she has plenty of experience but she always seems to be either getting the axe or moving on after about 2 years. That makes me wonder wether she is building up redpawpaw (subscription base) just to sell the company as quickly as possible as she did with Off Your Trolley after just 5 months according to the article that you've linked.Is it a coincidence that the first box of the financial year happens to be with the addition of shipping or is it good pre planning that will see them having a better fiscal record for when they sell up?
@rekabkram: yup, im thinking the exact same thing re: the only starting it up to sell it/personal info later on
re: neggers, unless they have the balls to back up there neg with a comment its like water off a ducks back :) cheers for the plus back up again
Is it a coincidence that the first box of the financial year happens to be with the addition of shipping or is it good pre planning that will see them having a better fiscal record for when they sell up?
oh wow, now thats something i didnt think about but when you look at the overall picture it all seems to fall into line?
I would be happy to continue with the old delivery service as I never had any problem with them. A $7.50 increase is a little steep in my opinion.
Pretty dodgy they are charging credit cards without permission on the 28th and only give you a week to change your mind.
$15 bucks to try $30 of groceries isnt a real bargain imo , i can just go into different isles and try random items at that rate.
$30 Really? To date most of it was fattening crap food that I wouldn't eat anyway. clearly an unethical mob, and therefore an easy decision for me to opt out.
If someone has a problem with what I have said, don't be a chickenshit & just neg. me. Tell me where you disagree. Or was it by the 'long silent' REP ??
$30 worth of products at RRP that I wouldn't bother purchasing (flavoured salt at $5 a jar FTW!) was worth $5 for the fun of opening the box.
I'm not so interested in propping up their business at $15/month.
Checkout the list of what peeps have supposedly "requested/flagged" (or whatever they refer to it as) for future boxes, pecks:
Cadbury
Arnotts
Lindt
Nestle
Uncle Tobys
Masterfoods
Allens
Heinz
Colgate Palmolive
Darrell Lea
So you have 1. Chocolate 2. Sweet biscuits 3. More chocolate 4. "Random sweet-stuff etc." (hardly an ethical company historically either, but don't get me started on THAT!) 7. Lollies 10. Yet more chocolate.
High mark-up, low-weight(i.e. cheap-to-send) yet ironically fattening, unhealthy if you have weight issues, etc… You'll surely be needing "number 9"; the Colgate :P
It's going to be over $15 per month now. And as an ozbargainer it's not like I would pay the RRP for any of that stuff anyway.
AND they want to charge me 10 months worth of delivery in one go rather than a certain amount per month. I don't even know if this is legal as I paid for a 12 month membership and paying that does not include given them permission to charge my credit card later for over $100.
They can no longer absorb the cost because they signed up too many subscribers. And now they will lose them all due to the huge increase in price.
Jump on their emailed offer of a FULL refund to year-subscribers Dame-n-Able; that way, you win. Be sure to "CC" a couple of mates onto your cancellation email though, just to make sure they cannot claim that perhaps it was never sent, or wasn't sent before the cut-off date for a FULL refund. You can most-likely sign back up again later, if you want, under their NEW "deal".
Yeah I'll be cancelling, as the delivery fee is $11.50 for me- I was all on board thinking what a cool little company they were, but now it won't be of any value for me sadly.
$7.50 for me. But yes, I will be cancelling. $12.50 for $30 worth of products at RRP is not a great deal to me. And I never had a problem with Fastway. Not to mention, other market research companies pay you to try products and offer feedback. So why are we paying for the box as well as a delivery charge? think this was their plan all along, suck customers in and get word out and then raise the fees.
… [I] think this was their plan all along, suck customers in and get word out and then raise the fees
I reckon you might be right nubzy. Sad, but in retrospect it seems likely. I mean, they knew exactly how much money they were going to have coming in, because they themselves set the limit on the number of subscribers. So it's pretty silly for them to ask us to believe that they didn't get enough money in to make their promises/plans work. Perhaps they had romantic visions of high-profile companies "throwing tens of thousands of units" of their products at them for free, after glowing media stories on "Current Affair"/"Today-Tonight" etc… ?
I think this truly calls for a good old fashioned OZB Boycott, LOL.
Yep, I'm out. Rather spend it on stuff I want!
Cancelled. What a shame, and poorly handled.
Particularly the whole "we've listened" bull so we've added a delivery fee at our customer's demand. What garbage.
Yes totally agree, the whole thing is contrived.
Don't know about you, but as a customer I love higher fees and shipping fees. /s
Don't forget less value with each box.
Well said Keggsy. Could they have possibly BEEN any more patronising? I don't think so. Sadly, it demonstrates just how lacking in intelligence whomever is in charge of their "PR" (and thus, possibly, the entire company?) is. Such a ridiculously transparent attempt at deception.
I just read the email on the phone and thought it was sneaky how they added it towards the end of the email.
Talking about waiting lists first, how lucky we were to be the members, etcWe should have gotten a warning email just with the price increase.
We all know know that some people will get caught out by not reading the entire email.
Sneaky bastards.
I'm cancelling.Can I suggest that, just as an absolute once off, a "forum post" be allowed to "stay up" ON THE "DEALS" PAGE (to maximise the chances that the poor saps that might've missed the sneaky email from Paw-Paw are actually made aware of it), alerting the "Poor Paw-Paw saps" who are about to have their credit-cards direct debited, that this is the last day they have to send an email that will stop that happening?
It's a bit unorthodox I know, but to me it seems justified, because some of the dudes that will fall into this trap will have actually signed up after seeing the post on the "deals" page; so it seems fair if a "final-hour" attempt is made to warn them, via that same page/section of the site. Maybe they never visit the ""forums" page… and maybe, like me, Paw-Paw's email went to their "SPAM" box.
So I really think it would be great if the mods would consider, as a "once off", posting a "PAW-PAW" post about cancellation time-limits on the NEW/ALTERED Paw-Paw contract, in the "DEALS" page. Just for tomorrow; the last day they will have to cancel, before being direct-debited.
Not worth it anymore. Will be cancelling and friends that i recommended will be canceling too. Poorpawpaw. It was great on the old plan.
Please everyone here, revoke your "Like"s of their Facebook page if you indeed "like"d their fb page.
facebook.com/Redpawpaw.com.auBut reading comments from all the unhappy people is so much fun.
I know you're joking, but you don't need the page liked to view the comments.
It seems maybe they are somehow filtering the comments on their FB page? (I know absolutely nothing about FB though, so very possibly I'm wrong about this); the latest comment I can see is from the 21jul2014, which begins:
"I feel a tad annoyed by your reference in the post above regarding the value of the goods in the boxes provided'…
LOLOL… if only that was the tone of the comments they're no doubt ACTUALLY receiving en masse at the moment…
Bail? Bail.
What are you on about Jack? Been hitting the turps again?!? ;-P
Yes.
$11.50 to my Brisbane address, will be cancelling for sure. Never had any issues with the courier, sounds like an excuse to charge people more.
I was actually considering joining but this has ruined it for me… I think I will stick to Pinchme (even though it is becoming increasingly difficult to get samples from them, at least it's still 100% free at this stage)
I'm out as well. I don't believe in supporting companies that use bait and switch tactics or change their t&c with disregard for those who have signed contracts in good faith.
Yeah this is classic bait and and switch. Build a huge user base at a promised bargain price and slug em with the old switcheroo.
Say a base of 30,000 customers (for example) now an averaged out delivery fee of $10 each. BANG, instant $300,000 more income per month.well summed up KT.
I said the same thing to the missus when we found out today, the old 'Bait n Switch'
Thought it was too good to be true $5/mnth…..but we subscribed anyway, its only $50.
I personally think this was calculated,
For 5 bux we get a $30 valued box(box alone wouldnt be cheap) with what i would assume is an expensive High Gloss catalogue, the marketing surveys, then there's the 'sudden' relaunch with 'competitions' we can enter(the t&c's on that are terrible 'data mine' us out much?!)then there's the over the top price hike blaming it on postage(gimme a break) as if they wouldn't have known the costs etc from the beginning….
Like other people have said, they wait till they get enough bites then jack the prices, they know that they'll get some suckers that will stay on…. i wont be one of them….cancelled!!
Good luck to those staying on but damn $20 + or - for MAYBE $30 of stuff you dont know if you will use, Fark that!!
This wreaks of bullsh*t!!
I'm out too. Believe me…. the box is not worth $12.50…
this is bullshit, can we bring them to ACCC or Fair Trading, especially to people who subscribed yearly with them that they are not allowed to cancel it?
In the email they offer a full refund to the "year subscribers", but the question is, once all of them accept that offer (why would they not?), leaving them with nix in the bank, AND their fabled "waiting list" also dissipates to nothing for obvious reasons (everyone on that list will have been enticed to join it by someone that now has a deep distrust of Pooh-Pooh), will they actually honour that pledge of a refund? I'm predicting bankruptcy (or is it "insolvency" or something, if it's a company? Forgive my ignorance on such matters).
We'll see.
This is almost as exciting as that recent very entertaining and somewhat enlightening "Idiot-abroad" saga that played out over OB… Except this time I am one of the idiots, being a year subscriber to Pooh-Pooh…
Cancelled - I was happy with the prior delivery service and, albeit hard to arrange, there should have been an option to stay with the previous delivery arrangements without the new surcharge.
It's WEIRD I must speak. Their business model is getting trouble and I doubt they would honour the full refund for this number of people.
I am still struggling with the subscription and I will think about it this week. Mine postage got $7.5 ($12.5 in total).
Anyway, it's a good learning curve with such a creation. It warns us that we must do the business planning well ahead before we start a new business.
Cancelled also , the increase was far too much for items you may or may not like ………. i wouldnt be surprised if that was their plan all along.
Cancelled in a heartbeat.
Poor form on RPP's behalf.
What a crappy business plan they must have had to not have planned ahead with the shipping costs.I think it's sneaky too that they won't honour the contract as many many people were thrilled with the simple $5 fee and word of mouth traffic would have been high + the 9K on the waiting list. Very disappointing, won't do business with them.
Will brands still want to do business with RPP after this? Many people have unsubscribed because honestly you could just go to Coles/Woolies and buy new, random things you've never seen before at half price for better value.
I can guarantee you, even the companies that have given their product free to Pooh-Pooh in the past will be very sorry they ever had anything to do with them, given the massive social-media backlash they are now inadvertently but inextricably linked to. PP was good at creating some initial hype, a facebook page, and a glossy brochure or two, but when it came down to "substance"… well… they must just be a bunch of kids, is my guess; that's the only way I can explain it. I retrospect, I'm surprised I even received the second box.
Where's the Rep? She was constantly on here during the early days…
Too good to be true. Hope they honour the refund? Bye bye RPP!
So they've started up, built a base of 10,000 members and delivered boxes for two months…..
Then they can't do a July box so we miss a month, they spend a couple of weeks asking their members to spread their word and had a brilliant response. Frankly I thought it was clever of them but rude as hell essentially asking their members to souce their products for them.Now this shit just after they announce that they have 9,000 people waiting in the wings to jump on board.
They claim that the issue was with the courier (there will always be a few in 10,000 that aren't quite right) but the issue with the June box not getting out on time was a manpower issue around public holidays and not being able to pack the boxes.
So the only issue with delivery is that they couldn't deliver to rural areas or Perth, since their membership was full with many people on a waiting list who the hell cares if those areas can't order the boxes they would be have to join a waiting list more than 9,000 people long to get the box anyway.The whole thing stinks of cash grab and their attitude on Facebook of 'if you don't like it cancel' is crap, I have a years subscription and frankly I can't see how they can legally make a withdrawal from my account when it hasn't been authorised. Failure to respond to an email in a week doesn't give them permission to take $75 out of my account and surely if they don't know that already then they will before the day comes.
WORD, man. Extremely well said, especially that last sentence!!!
And also, re:They claim that the issue was with the courier…
I met personally with the couriers, both times, and even checked out their vans.
The courier service was very professional. Both times the guys (different dude the second time) were polite, clean (forgive me, I'm a bit anal about that sort of crap when receiving a food delivery), considerate (knocked rather quietly at first then progressively louder, etc.).
I'd be pretty mad if I was that courier company; having my business brought into question by this RPP mob of idiots. I'd be interested to hear of the experience of others who actually were at home when the courier delivered their stuff. To my mind, they were flawless. I actually could not fault anything about them.Actually one of the best courier companies that I receive deliveries from.
I'm in Brisbane and the postage is $11.50. I never had problems with the previous courier. I'm going to pay it for one month and see what the next one is like. I could never understand how to the postage was free in the first place though.
They are fun to receive, but mostly things I don't eat as I eat healthy. Anyway, no great loss to try one more of them.
I just assumed their model was to go to food manufacturers/marketers and say "We can get your products into 10000 homes for the price of the product plus a dollar", or something similar, which would cover the delivery. The surveys would provide real feedback that manufacturers would otherwise have to pay for also.
I note their email talked about delivery to PO Boxes being a new option, yet my boxes were delivered to a PO Box from day one. Bit odd that.
I think they probably aimed for a discount from the courier too.
I can imagine them launching thinking, yes, the first month we will make a loss but once the manufacturers see how great we are they will pay more to be included.
No surprise that the manufacturers already have market research etc.I thought the $5 subscription was for delivery.
Not real interested in funding some marketer's payroll.
That's the role of the distributor not consumer.… their email talked about delivery to PO Boxes being a new option, yet my boxes were delivered to a PO Box from day one
Interesting… it seems that honesty is a foreign concept to them, on multiple levels. The odd thing is that they have not even been smart enough to realise that their lies would be completely exposed, once the online-community were provoked into doing a bit of casual "data-matching" (for want of a better word).
RPP has gotta' be the result of a couple of kids who did a 6-month "online diploma in business", for a few hundred bucks, then thought they could launch something that would rapidly become successful. Only the naivety of youth could explain this situation.
Wrong.
Run by a 30-something woman and her husband.
Read her website more carefully, please.
Run by a 30-something woman and her husband who had already sold an "online grocery" business, claims to have been management for TNT freight along with many other things.
thought i should add a little more for you…
"she" is no noob to this sort of thing, and i dont believe for a second that they have made any mistakes…… but its all been carefully planned out and gone completely according to plan.
@stemcell: Right, I got 2 boxes of $30+ grocery items delivered to my house, for free. What I fool I am.
You were foolish in thinking you were going to get 12 months supply for your original $50 but Sarah was smarter so my description is accurate, you're just lucky pawpaw did not go under.
@stemcell: If you say so, I'm not sure what luck has to do with it, as I have already said a few times on here, I paid via credit card and would do a no-risk charge-back if they went under. To anyone else out there that's smarter than me and wants to send me $60 of groceries for free, please let me know.
Cancelled my subsciption as soon as i read the email. Perhaps at the time of starting it, if they had a small delivery fee incorporated into the subscription it wouldn't be in this mess. Now i have to apologise to the people i recommended this to :-(
Sad face. $55 + $75 is too much to pay for a random box. I have cancelled mine. This is more of a fun thing for me rather then get the best value for my $5.
At the end of the day, the company cannot do this if money is not to be made. You should know IF you are making money BEFORE you start. They know now many will be signing up, how much they will be paying.
Anyway, fun is over for me. My colleagues will be upset at not getting freebies from me.
you should DUMP your colleagues, do they also scream bloody murder to businesses who don't give them freebies?
He should quit his job over this?
There is nothing on their website anymore about there being $30 worth of value in each box….
Redpawpaw will endeavour to provide as much value as possible to each subscriber in each Redpawpaw box. However, as the variety and quantity of products available are dependent on the supply from manufacturers, Redpawpaw cannot guarantee the number or value of the products each subscriber will receive.
So my $5 subscription plus $11.50 postage might only be for a box of samples worth $30, $20 or even just $15???
Aye Bambers, just when we thought they'd reached rock-bottom, they start DRILLING THROUGH THE ROCK…
I'll be cancelling. Considering the delivery fees are up to $18, they haven't given much notice for a 4x increase in the monthly cost.