Hi fellow OzBargainers :
This will be a painful and puzzling post on my close relative’s story, I am not sure how to help them to resolve this exactly. If there is anyone willing to provide some directions on where to next, it will be tremendous.
It involves transaction on Paypal and teaching the young one a lesson. Please move this thread to the appropriate category as you see fit Moderator.
I got called last night by my uncle, he needs me to help him with a serious issue. My aunt’s credit card got charged $5000 in total this month in June with the same company www.steampowered.com . Sometimes with daily transactions accumulating to $600. This makes my collection of untouched steam sale bargain pale in comparison.
My uncle and aunt are aware that their son plays games a lot on steam. They also recharge $100 monthly via Paypal for him as his “pocket money”. My aunt described that each time their son set’s up the computer, and she just puts into the password while her son is not “looking”. Can there be possibility to process Paypal purchases without password? Or can a browser save paypal password or use a keylogger?
She has since took her son’s laptop away. I logged into her Paypal account with her permission and saw the transaction records are always before and after school hours, with weekend usage. In one instance, $300 was transferred in 3 minutes! (3 X $100 transactions)
I have my doubts in how their son could use so much money in one month on steam. However, their son did admit that he did spend money on games. My young cousin is 14 Y.O, highly introverted and attached to computer games. The transaction record did fit his days away from school aswell.
I intend to go and look at my cousin’s computer in the next two days.
My speculations are:
- My cousin is a fool and took things for granted. He did not realise how much real money it was costing my uncle and aunty (whom are both not well off by any means)
- Someone got hold of the account and made a lot of purchases on steam. I found it hard to believe to spend that much on games or in game contents in a month. Although such is not likely as the transaction patterns fits my cousin’s life routine.
- Could there possibility be a third explanation? Error on transaction?
I can only assist my uncle and aunt in giving them the following advice:
- Change Paypal password, remove the credit card linked and cancel the current credit card.
- Have a long and educational talk with their son, he needs to learn from his mistakes and be dealt with consequences. Can there be a reason consequence?
- Is there anything that be done externally to get some money back, salvage the situation? Although I am aware that the chances are slim, and my uncle may have just have to cut the loses.
I know this is not the best story to read through, but my family and their family are in much pain and distress.
If there are fellow Ozbargainer’s out there who has been in a similar situation or knows how to resolve this, I will thank you in advance!
[EDIT] Day 2
First of all, thanks to all OZB's that has spend their half an hour reading this thread, and more to those who has responded thoughtfully.
I am going to my aunt's place this afternoon.
If my cousin did spend all this amount of money, then a reasonable consequence shall be placed.
- Taking his privileges away.
- Followed by making him accountable for his actions, he has to work out a away to remunerate for his mistake.
- Any other suggestions would be good.
Either way, I will email steam/paypal in the follow days to explain and try to salvage the situation.
- The transactions were not authorised and was conducted by a minor.
- The cardholder's paypal password was compromised by a family member.(or should I cut out the family member bit?)
- Can anyone who was successful in their refund provide me a template of what they wrote (or private message if preferred).
I am humbled by the warm support from this community.
<B>[EDIT 2] Day 3</B>
I am grateful for everyone's concern on the outcome of this matter
It has been a long night of discussion with my relatives.
My aunt decided to let me do the job of investigation on his computer and double check the transactions with their son to assess what is going on exactly.
Accordingly, I will explain the effects of his actions to my cousin one on one.
My aunt and uncle will then will deal with the consequences accordingly later.
My findings were:
After logging into my cousin's steam account, I did not find the box "Save my payment information so checkout is easy next time" as suggested by "cheapchap" to be present. However my cousin showed me that could process the payment without entering Paypal password. (I speculate that it was ticked earlier by default, which is present on my steam)
I found the transaction records matched up to the credit card history. All spending were processed through his account.My cousin literally spent $5000 in a month starting from 31st of May. As hard as it is for me to believe, but some of the in-game purchase from Team-fortress 2 was shocking. Items and customisations, one particular TF2 item cost $350. There were also hundreds of "cards" that he purchased, although only $0.23 each, there were hundreds of them in transaction.
Another revelation which was speculated by "Tyrx" is that he has "gifted" games and items to "friends". Quite a few games and items were given away to his school friends, followed by TF friends from US. I questioned why has done it, and if they would do the same in reverse. My understanding is that he was giving them away because they "asked", and they were his friends in school so he can play games with them. He had received some gifts in return.
- I tried to keep the conversation under 20 mins, as kids dont have the best attention span. I thought there isn't any point to use words such as "crime", "court", "jail" or "illegal" to scare him. He has only seen them in TV, it does not however relate to him.
My explanation to him were:
It was not his money to spend, every single cent was taken out of his mother's savings. It is as if he is stealing from them. He is hurting them.
Furthermore, my cousin's mother had been really unwell the last few years. In one instance she was in hospital for a month, on the verge of leaving this world. With the permission of my aunt, I had to play the emotional card. I told him that he is causing so much distress to his mother. Can he face her mother collapse and be waiting at the hospital bedside again?
He needs to man up and be responsible for his actions. It will be harsh, but just like everything in life he needs to move on. I am there to help with the process.
The fellow was quite miserable and was trying to run away from his consequences initially. One thing that he said was "they(steam) just lets me do(buy) it". He also tried justifying the things he bought on steam, ans said "you dont get it", "you trade these items, that is what you do"
I pointed out that they (steam) is there to make money, you will not get money off them. Also by the end of the day, he needs to pay his parents back somehow and have consequences placed upon him to move on. This is not enforced by me, but by my aunt and uncle. I am merely there to make things clear for him and explain the effects of his actions.
Some suggested consequences were:
a) Taking his privilege away, no computers this holiday. Enforce a timetable for computer usage and homework suitable for the family permanently.
b) My aunt demand a written note from my cousin; stating that he owe the family $5000, and will pay them back.
c) Block out an afternoon on each weekend (as suggested by "wholesaleturbos"), where he has to leave home for outdoor activity/work. He used to play soccer some years back when he wasn't 95kg. Not a healthy weight for a 14 Y.O. I know.
I wish I could do a better job, but that is all I can do and suggest to my aunt.
I welcome any further constructive criticism on the outcome of this matter, if the consequences were fair and reasonable.
Once again, I take my hat off to those who have been following this entire thread the last two days.
Edit: forgot to hit reply button to kwaker's post above…
That's a bit rough; the OP seems intelligent and polite enough and he's surely one role model. Sometimes kids turn out a certain way despite the best efforts of parents. Kid definitely needs to be weaned off the computer though, reading, sports/hobby clubs, job at the local maccas, even volunteer groups all good for socialising and would make him a more interesting, well adjusted and employable person in the long run.
Most people who get bill shock would try to dispute it - taking responsibility is obviously important, but it's also important not to roll over and accept everything bad that happens without trying to civilly negotiate a better outcome if it can be achieved, and the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive