Insurance Only Offering $100 Towards Damage

subywagon on 01/05/2014 - 17:23

I think I had another post up about a lady hitting my parked car in a parking lot. I'm not insured, but she was. I got a quote and forwarded it to her insurance company as requested along with photos of the damage taken by the crash repair company.

The quote I received for repair of the damage was $657.89. They've only offered me $100 towards the repair being that there is some light scuff marks on the rear bar in other areas.

In the photographs you can see major paint scraping where the lady hit, and you can also see some lighter scuff marks towards the middle and the right hand side of the bar which were NOT related to the lady.

The quote is only for the left corner where the lady hit.

I'm writing an email back stating that the only major damage to the bar is that caused by the lady, and that it is very clear in the photo, as there's red paint on the bar from her vehicle. I'm also stating that $100 wont even come close to covering the repair costs…

Anyone have any idea what my options are?

P.S please no flaming about that fact my car wasn't insured, that's not the subject of this thread.. cheers

Automotive

Comments

  • subywagon on 01/05/2014 - 17:26
    +3

    I don't want to get snarky at this point in my correspondence with the insurance company, but I'm thinking if they don't budge should I threaten with small claims court?

    • woz on 02/05/2014 - 09:59
      +16

      I wouldn't threaten. I'd just do it. Lodge the application with Small Claims. They know they're trying to shaft you, so why argue with them further if their attitude is not to play fair? You've got photo evidence and your quote to present. They'll have to justify their decision to an independent umpire.
      Honestly, I can only see one way the decision can go. You summed it up perfectly when you noted that $100 won't come close to covering the repair costs. Your willingness to have them repair just her damage at their choice of repairer is just the final nail in their coffin.
      I've been to small claims about half a dozen times. Only once did it actually get the independent arbiter, who forces both parties into a room to have one more attempt at mediation. The party in the wrong always buckle at this point and pay up, because they're worried the arbiter might add on punitive damages for being assholes.
      On the one occasion with me it got the arbiter, it was fair to say both parties had a reasonable argument, and the arbiter split costs down the middle. And that $100 you're being offered isn't even close to half. Go nail them to the wall.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 02/05/2014 - 18:49
      +2

      Which insurance company is this BTW?

  • chloden on 01/05/2014 - 17:26
    +6

    Take your complaint to the fos.org.au they should hopefully help you out

    • Scrooge McDuck on 02/05/2014 - 18:46
      +2

      Don't waste your time with FOS. They'll take months to even look at it. I'd do what woz suggested.

  • wharlie on 01/05/2014 - 20:46
    +2

    That doesn't make sense, the insurance company would be hitting the at fault driver for the excess, usually at least $500.
    In your case they would only be out of pocket $157.89 to cover your full claim (assuming $500 excess).
    If the claim's less than the excess then the at fault driver is better off paying you directly, which also protects her no claim bonus. I,d send a letter of demand with the quote for repairs directly to the at fault driver, you can find some templates online.

    • mr_fjackson on 03/05/2014 - 08:35

      Maybe there is damage to her car two and that's why she is going though insurance? or maybe she is just plan stupid, it happens .

  • subywagon on 01/05/2014 - 20:52
    +2

    Hi chloden and wharlie. I was really nice to her about it and told her that I don't mind if you want to pay me directly, do what ever works out better for you. So she's gone through insurance and that's their response. I'll see how the insurance company responds to me and then I'll threaten them with the FOS. It pisses me off, because I'm sure if I hit her they'd be after the full amount, no if, not buts….

  • RockyRaccoon on 01/05/2014 - 20:55
    +1

    Did they tell you why they are offering you only $100

    Why not ask them, suggesting that if they think the quote from your repairer is too high, that they can arrange for the work to be done by their own repairer.

    That indicates that all you are interested in is getting your car repaired.

    Another issue that you might have is the overall value of your car. They may just think that if it is old, that you will just take the $100 and not get the car repaired.

    Insurance companies can be fair, it also depends on what they think is motivating you.

    My son had an accident with another car (their fault), their insurance paid up $3k and wrote the car off, in this case it was clear that the damage wasn't something he could pocket the money and keep driving the car. (he only had 3rd party property damage insurance)

    He did ok (although lost use of car for a few weeks) as he only paid $2k for the car, but assessor valued it at $3K

  • kzrocky on 01/05/2014 - 21:30

    Agree with rockyracoon.
    Ask them to have their guys repair your car.

  • subywagon on 01/05/2014 - 22:26
    +1

    Hi Rocky. Thanks for your input.

    They said they are offering only $100 as there was already damage present on the left side that was hit and that there are already some scuff marks on the bar. This is not true. There was no damage on the left side at all until the lady scraped my car. There are some light scuff marks elsewhere on the bar, but they are nothing compared to the damage that the lady inflicted.
    In the photos of the damage received it clearly shows the red paint that scraped off of the ladies car onto mine. I can't understand why they have suddenly decided that there was already damage present. As they've never seen my car before I sent them the photos taken by the crash repair center.

    The crash repair center I went to IS one used by them, as there's a HUGE sign with the insurers logo on there saying so.

    Also if my car is old and not of much value, that's my business, not theirs. The damage I received was not my fault at all. They give their clients the option of writing off their cars if the repairs are too high and hand over the cash, I should have the same option if I so choose.

    Insurance companies may be fair sometimes, but I gave no indication that I was only after cash to them. All I had done is forward the repair bill and photos as requested.

    Finally I reckon there is no body shop in Australia that would do ANY repair on a vehicle for $100.

  • eatwell365 on 02/05/2014 - 05:48

    Interested to learn what the insurance company's response is to the request of having their repairer to fix the agreed portion of damage as a direct result from the accident.

  • BobD on 02/05/2014 - 07:33

    forget this

  • subywagon on 02/05/2014 - 11:31
    +1

    Well I heard back from the insurer this morning and they stated:

    This offer has now been withdrawn as our insured has chosen to withdraw her claim.

    we will no longer be dealing with this matter.

    So what do I do now? Take the lady to small claims court? I guess I can't go to the fos now that the insurer isn't involved?

    • Noblejoker on 02/05/2014 - 12:35
      +1

      I am guessing she withdrew it so she can deal with you direct
      If she has an excess of $500 or more (as is common) then it isn't worth her having an at fault claim
      Contact the lady direct for the money
      If she doesn't offer to pay in full, go to small claims court

      • woz on 02/05/2014 - 15:24

        Pay for the REPAIRS in full, I assume you mean. It's customary to accept less than the repair quote for a cash settlement if you don't want the repair actually carried out, but would prefer to pocket some money.
        How much less than the repair quote you're willing to accept as a cash settlement is a personal choice, but being too ambitious can backfire. I've seen people get greedy in this situation and had the at fault driver choose to PAY EXTRA to force the car to get repaired purely out of spite, so the no fault driver pockets nothing at all.
        Of course, if you actually want the repair done, you're in a no lose situation. Just ask her if she wants the quoted repairer to fix it, or if she'd like to organise her own repairer. Either way, the repair gets done.

        • Noblejoker on 02/05/2014 - 16:13

          Agree - if you are asking for cash/chq then you should give her copy of a receipt for your expense to prove cost incurred or else a reduction is customary. You should also offer to give her a receipt for the money - just write something down and sign & date it

    • woz on 02/05/2014 - 12:45
      +5

      OK, now it's a different kettle of fish - and a MUCH better kettle than you were dealing with when the insurer was involved.
      You need to decide what is a fair and reasonable settlement BEFORE you contact her directly. You're looking for a win/win that's leaves both parties if not happy, then at least not unhappy. For me, that would be deciding if I wanted the repair done or not - if not - then fair is probably half the quote in cash which you pocket to settle the matter.
      Once you've decided, THEN you ring her and tell her what you think is fair and reasonable, and give her the choice of having it repaired or making a cash settlement for less than the cost of repair. She can then choose to agree to either of those terms or she can choose to be an asshole. If the latter, you go ahead and lodge the claim with Small Claims.
      If she wants to argue, DON'T. Just say firmly that you've decided what is fair and reasonable, and if she doesn't like either of those two choices, then the matter will proceed to the Small Claims Tribunal.
      I can almost guarantee there'll be an immediate cheque in the mail unless she's very friendly and you simply agree to meet and she hands over the cash you've asked for.

      Hope this helps.

  • BargainFinder53 on 02/05/2014 - 13:03

    what a ripper

  • Dumax on 02/05/2014 - 13:07

    As wharlie said, send a letter of demand to the woman directly.

    • Daabido on 03/05/2014 - 01:22

      Yes, they are obliged to hand it on to their insurers and it usually gets better attention that way.

  • lplau on 02/05/2014 - 16:35
    +1

    So which insurance agency is this? lol.
    Easiest would be to take the woman to small claims court if she doesn't pay.

    But these are exactly the situations which you should have gotten insurance, saves you the heart ache and time wasted in trying to sort out this stuff when you can have somebody do it for you.

  • Wallyt99 on 02/05/2014 - 18:00

    Its reasonable and lawful to expect that repairs will not be excessive when taken in the context of the vehicle - eg a new bumper as opposed to used is unreasonable as may be a significant respray. Nonetheless even a used bumper would be around 200 + labour … so I would be going for at least $400 if you want to settle.

    If you want to go to court (fun!) Then get two quotes which specify repair to a level consistent with the overall age and conditoon of vehicle and claim the full amount.

  • Zelic on 02/05/2014 - 18:40
    +1

    Just had a similar case. I was uninsured, other person was. There insurance company kept trying to blame me. Went on for 6 months, I esculated and got nowhere. Got in touch with FOS (financial ombudsman) after i wrote FOS an email, the insurance company called me up and said they made a mistake and transferred me 3 grand. My advice…Esculate and then go to FOS.

  • subywagon on 02/05/2014 - 18:58

    I'd like to make her pay the full amount. As I'm sure that's what her insurance company would force me to do if I hit her, but I'm thinking I'll try and settle with the lady for $400 just so the matter doesn't drag on forever.
    If she ignores me I'll send her a notice of demand for the full amount and then finally proceed with court.
    I've been keeping all contact via email, including with the insurance company so I have written records of our conversations in case I need them for court.

    Also Zelic I was planning on doing as you suggested, but the lady has apparently withdrawn her insurance claim, so the insurance company has nothing to do with it now I guess?

    • YTW on 02/05/2014 - 22:08

      Nope, they aren't part of it any more. Your issue is now squarely with her.

      If she doesn't pay up to your satisfaction then your only option is to take it to small claims court - insurers play no part in this situation if she has withdrawn her claim.

      You may find she's just worked out that it's going to cost her more to put a claim through than pay you directly. If she's a young driver her excess could easily be $800.

  • Wallyt99 on 02/05/2014 - 19:06
    +1

    Make sure you indicate the offer to settle is without prejudice - I.e cannot be used as evidence if she fails to settle and it comes to court.

    • JudasX on 03/05/2014 - 12:22

      Wallyt99 makes a good point.

      "An example of a without prejudice communication is writing to a debtor offering to accept a lesser amount than the amount owed to satisfy the debt. This type of communication should be marked “without prejudice” to ensure that if proceedings are issued at a later date to recover the debt the correspondence could not be used by the debtor as evidence that the party was not owed the full amount claimed."

      http://www.wisewouldmahony.com.au/index.php?id=308

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2014 - 00:18

    I always thought that you can make a claim with someone else's insurance company without even asking them to do anything other than knowing which company they are with (and having their license / reg details)

    Because - say you were insured too, your insurance company would call their insurance company to make a claim anyway.

    What's stopping you from calling them to make a claim?

    • subywagon on 03/05/2014 - 08:06

      I don't know. I have no experience with insurance companies before…

      I'll contact the lady and see what's going on with her and then consider my actions.

      • andyken on 03/05/2014 - 12:47

        yep agreed, it happen once with my mate, his car has been hit by someone, after he got his insurance company, reg and driver license, he simply went to car repair station, and the car repair station do the rest. no other call involved

    • Noblejoker on 05/05/2014 - 15:16

      Her insurance company require her to WANT to make a claim
      She indicates this by accepting the claim and agreeing to pay her excess
      She initially lodged a claim but has withdrawn the claim - presumably because the cost of her excess plus no claim bonus loss makes the matter not worth claiming

  • t_c on 03/05/2014 - 10:25
    +2

    Settling for less cash cause you might not go ahead with the repair is plain stupid, get another 2 quotes, send her the 3 and request payment for the cheapest quote. Weather you opt to repair the car or pocket the cash is no ones business as when you sell the vehicle you will loose capital value on the car to the value of the repair anyway.

    • woz on 03/05/2014 - 11:39

      She can opt to choose her own repairer and get the car repaired, and the OP ends up with zero cash in his pocket. She can also opt to pay the repairer directly, and again, the OP ends up with zero cash in his pocket.

      • t_c on 03/05/2014 - 16:46
        +1

        What's so bad about having the car repaired to its original condition and value anyway?

        At least OP can then sell car anytime for its original value vs a car that would sell for $657-$1000 less than before it was damaged.

        • woz on 03/05/2014 - 17:16

          Not saying it's bad. If he wants it repaired, he's in a no lose situation. But the OP's contributions on this thread so far suggest he'd prefer money in his pocket than to get the car repaired.
          On the flip side, anybody that truly believes a scrape on a bumper actually devalues a car by $1000 really is plain stupid.

        • t_c on 03/05/2014 - 19:43

          True some buyers may disregard the damage and not discount the value and other more knowledgably buyers such as dealers may factor in a margin of safety. hard to say without seeing the photos of the damage. End of the day the car will cost $657 to bring it to pre-accident condition and is therefore worth $657 less in its current condition, weather you choose to believe it or not.

        • mrmarkau67 on 03/05/2014 - 21:25

          End of the day the car will cost $657 to bring it to pre-accident condition and is therefore worth $657 less in its current condition, weather you choose to believe it or not.

          Not necessarily true. If the car is 10 years old and worth $3000 with a big scrape on the bumper, restoring the bumper to "as new" condition will certainly not make the car worth $3600.

        • woz on 04/05/2014 - 00:09

          We probably shouldn't argue with him. I don't know "weather" the OP wants the repair done or not, but I certainly wouldn't want him to "loose" money because he was silly enough to listen to less "knowledgably" people like us…

        • Serapis on 04/05/2014 - 05:23

          Depends, could be $1000+ depending on the paint / type of car / extent of scratch. Wouldn't be surprised with $1000 bill if the entire panel needed to be resprayed.

          Also if selling the car, and the buyer does something like a stateroads inspection, this stuff will come up.

        • woz on 04/05/2014 - 15:11

          What panel?! It's the rear bar! $657 would be one brand new rear bar and the labour to fit it. No paint, no respraying. Just fit a stock bar straight off the shelf.

        • t_c on 06/05/2014 - 07:57

          Depends on the car, a lot of cars have painted bumper bars.
          and afaik the panel beater still has to spray the colour on it.

  • subywagon on 05/05/2014 - 16:24
    +1

    At this point I just want the money. I don't trust her at all. I'm not going to book it in to get repaired and then have her renig on the payment etc.

    I went and got another quote, this one was $100 or so cheaper at $530.50 to repair the left corner of the bumper only. I do want it repaired as I was preparing to sell the vehicle and wanted to try and get max dollar. People look hard to find things wrong with a car to knock the hell out of the price, so this will cost me in the end whether I have it repaired or not.

    I supplied the new quote and gave her an option to pay the amount of the cheaper quote to my bank account without prejudice within 14 days or I'd pursue my legal options.

    Hopefully I hear some good news with in a couple of days… hopefully I don't have some randoms rocking up to my house to bash me or damage my property further… I think they may have gotten my address from the initial quote I sent to the insurer. @_@

  • subywagon on 06/05/2014 - 10:50
    +1

    So any how I received a reply from the ahem "lady" now accusing me of extortion… for your reading pleasure:

    I withdrew my insurance claim after discussion with my insurance company. The insurance company have assessed my car and the photos of your car which were provided by the panel repair shop.

    I was advised that your claim is for repair of pre-existing damage and complete bumper respray which is not damage caused by me.

    If you would like to obtain a quote from a body works to use some compound and remove the small amount of red paint on the corner of your bumper bar only, I would then be happy to pay for that repair. This process does not damage your existing paintwork.

    As there is no actual dent on the corner of your bumper I have been advised that this is all that would be required and the removal of your bumper bar is totally unnecessary.

    As a result of this Information and vehicle assessment I will not be paying your demands for either $657.89 or $530.50 - both demands of which are excessive, misleading, fraudulent and a blatant attempt at extortion.

    If you are not happy with this outcome then please feel free to pursue your legal options as I would gladly see you in court where I would also pursue my legal options and counter sue in regards to your illegal demands.

    Thank you for supplying your bank details although they are not required. Cash settlement is not an option as any payment I make will only be made to a bodyworks.

    So I'm going to return to the body works and ask them to reassess the damage and also to supply notes for court.

    • t_c on 07/05/2014 - 07:45

      She's just regurgitating what the insurance company told her.

      Maybe you can invite her down to the bodyworks where she can discuss the repair with the workshop so she can satisfy herself that your not out to extort her.

      afaik , I believe you cant touch up 2 pac paint, you have to paint the entire panel.

      • subywagon on 07/05/2014 - 09:45

        That's what I've heard too. At the very least you need to paint like half the bar to feather it in.

        • t_c on 07/05/2014 - 10:47

          Try and get the workshop manager to give her a ring and explain why it costs as much as it costs. Might be a bit hard for her to argue with a trade professional on the correct way to repair the damage. One would also assume if rubbing it with compound would produce a satisfactory finish the panel shop would have quoted as such.

  • subywagon on 06/05/2014 - 15:05

    So far the police have been hopeless. They rang the lady and she basically told them what her email to me said. The police told me I need to take it up with court and wouldn't help me with obtaining her address so I could serve the papers on her….

  • subywagon on 06/05/2014 - 15:29
    +1

    I did a little research and found her home address so I will now go ahead with court.

    • hothed on 07/05/2014 - 22:27

      Good luck!

    • woz on 10/08/2014 - 15:28

      Well, that message was three months ago. How did the court case go?

  • eatwell365 on 07/05/2014 - 22:35

    Keep us post. Good Luck.

  • tonyjzx on 10/08/2014 - 17:34

    can you actually 'counter-sue' for 'illegal claims'

    thats an interesting one because you would surely lose in court as OP has several quotes?

    and she'd also be up for court costs

    i cant see how she would win

    less said about that insurance company the better… $100 lol

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