Forgetting the tax benefits as it only applies to some.
Whether you went to hospital or to see a specialist, whether it was an emergency or elective surgery, tell your (or your close friend's) experience and include:
I you earn enough.
This. I've had a couple of medical issues in the last three years and in all instances I've been unable to claim private coverage. Seems almost useless but it's cheaper than the levy.
I think it depends on what kind of cover you have too… but if you increase your cover (as you get older?) then better to have cover now than to be hit with another surcharge for not having it before you turned 32.
not really.. the money you save by not having it is well and truly more than the amount you pay later.
Effectively the hook is pay 100% now so you can save paying 10-15% more later…
Even with inflation, it doesn't take a genius to work out that if you;'re not going to use it, you're better off waiting, and that doesn't even factor in Interest you get (or save, if you have a mortgage).
Does that take in to account increases in price based on age? Some insurances will fix it at a certain rate depending on what age you start the insurance at, and so if you get in at 40 years old instead of 20 years old, that rate will be higher. Might not be the case for health insurance as opposed to other insurances, I don't know all the differences/available options.
Be interesting to do the full math on the different scenarios.
That also depends on you not having to pay for any expensive health related things that would've been (at least partly) covered by the insurance.
I don't understand when you say it's cheaper than paying the medicare levy.
I am having a Gold hospital and extras cover from the first month I arrived in Australia for past 6 years despite the fact that I don't have enough family income to go over the limit to make it mandatory. I just took it and keep it in case if I need it for my kids. I am paying around $3500 every year for past 6 years now.
However having hospital cover doesn't save you from paying the medicare levy. I still have to pay it every year which is a significant amount. It only save me paying from medicare levy surcharge only if I am earning higher than the specified limit as a family.
do you mean medicare levy or medicare levy surcharge?
We tried to claim the medicare levy back from tax but was told we can't. Maybe I still haven't get my head around how all these charges works
Medicare levy of 1.5% is compulsory. Can't avoid that.
Medicare levy surcharge is the one you get out of, if you have private health insurance. The rate varies, depending on your income.
http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/incentivessu…
Thanks. That's what we are doing now.
Yup kinda made me wonder if private health insurance is worth it or not.
When my income broke the threshold, it was either (don't quite recall) cheaper for me to get insurance than to pay the surcharge, or much-of-a-muchness. If it's only going to cost me $20 more to HAVE the insurance than not, and I can potentially claim something back (or be covered in case I do need to use it), that's worth it.
I believe if you were an overseas student, you could claim the levy back because you were not entitled to medicare at the first place. I could be wrong though
If you are not eligible to use Medicare then you can get an exemption cert from Medicare just by filling a form and you don't have to pay that 1.5%.
eg. if you are on some temp visa which is not eligible for Medicare.
Its a basic 2% on your GROSS tax, then the levy surcharge of <90K 0% 105K $1% <140K 1.25% >140K 1.5%
http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/incentivessu…
So at a max 3.5% if earning over 140K single/gross which would be on say 145K >5k a year in extra TAX but if you shop well for insurance you could get coverage (even without rebate at the top level) for $60 a month/$720
so extra 1.5% is $2175-720=$1455 back in your pay
decent coverage is closer to $80 p/m (public peoplecare public), $105 p/m (CUA 65% PRIVATE) either will get you out of the extra levy but you wont be much better off unless you get sick, that is…
Yup, definitely works out well just for tax purposes, depending on your income.
It's hard for me to judge if I'd get private health insurance if I wasn't avoiding the Medicare Levy surcharge by getting it, but other main advantages of private health insurance (depending on where you live) are:
- get to choose your docs
- get treated much quicker
- get some slight benefits in hospital
Point 2 is what concerns me most. I've heard horror stories of people whose conditions (eg initial tumor/cancer) were deemed "not an emergency" and by the time they got through the long wait list, they were too far past the treatment stage. Or, people in debilitating pain, who are just given pain meds through the public health system and told to wait (for months, often).
If you're not getting tax benefits due to avoiding the medicare levy surcharge, like most insurances, it all depends on how risk averse you are. How good is public health in your area and what are the waitlists like? (Often, the best way to figure out issues about waitlists in your area is to have a chat with an experienced health-care professional if you know one.) What do you think you or your family's chances of being in extreme pain, or early-stage serious illnesses are?
I suppose, like most of these Ozbargain "deals", the "worthiness" varies from person to person.
Horror stories. We've all heard of them. I want personal experiences!! ;)
Plural of anecdote = statistics ;)
I will give you a personal experience two in fact.
My mothers partner right now had kidney stones, they found out when he collapsed in his front yard. He thought he was dying because the pain was so bad, they "fix" him up (remove the problem stone) and tell him the wait to remove them surgically was in the realm of 12 months in the public system.
This is not a cosmetic item, this is not elective and yet it gets classified as such. He likely would have died before he got treatment in the public system. (The stones were much larger than normal and could only be removed via surgery). The problem with kidney stones is that they are fine till they aren't and when that happens they can kill you. so basically they wanted him to gamble his life for 12 months before they would remove them and given where we live he would have been knocked back another 6 months to boot.
He was forced to do it privately and even with health insurance it cost him a few thousand, without it he likely would have been out 10k+.
My best friends mother needed a double knee replacement. It was so bad she was unable to walk without crutches /wheelchair, unable to work anymore (she was an intensive care nurse at the public hospital). They told her it would be 18-24 months wait time. That is almost 2 entire years of living in the most unbearable pain you can imagine. Of course she didn't have private health insurance and couldn't afford the 10's of thousands to do it privately.
She was forced to go get private health insurance, wait for the 12+ month waiting period and THEN go privately to get her knees replaced so she could work again.
The public system is broken beyond all belief. Its perfectly fine in most cases for accident and emergency. Fall off a roof compound fracture your leg and bam they take you straight in and fix it. But for anything else, where everything that isn't going to kill you in the next 5 minutes is classified as "elective" people get shafted. The worst part is that the private hospitals are actually worse for you, they are under staffed to save money during the night time (like vehemently understaffed. Only a couple nurses, no proper doctors) the general standard of care is lesser than in public.
I can speak from experience as I have had 4 separate operations in my 20 odd year life, from my local hospital both private and public and one of the large private ones in Melbourne.
Thanks for the comment. I don't think you can generalise statements about the public system in all of Australia as being "broken beyond all belief" or everyone is being shafted if they use it.
From the varied comments here, it appears to be dependant on where you live. As I stated already, my friend had elective hip surgery done within a month. My brother had a colonoscopy done within a month.
I've also heard positive experiences from people who keep pushing and nagging specialists to get their elective surgery done sooner. This was indeed the case with my friend's hip surgery.
6 years ago i needed a hernia repair. had it scheduled through the public system 4 weeks after the initial consult. surgeon rang 2 weeks later and said he had a cancellation and would I like to have the op the next day.
not too shabby.
Both the conditions you describe are not life threatening. Kidney stones will not kill you unless they cause hydronephrosis and in that instance you'd get treated more quickly.
Osteoarthritis of the knee is not a life threatening condition. The incidence in the elderly population is very high which is why the waitlist is so long.
In comparison to similar countries, Australia has a pretty decent public health care system. Try getting any medical service in the US without insurance, that makes our private health insurance look like peanuts.
There can be useful situations when you can plan for a hospital stay. If it's an urgent thing then not much help. Below is my experience.
I pay $3600 for my private cover and 1.5% of medicare levy which is 5k a year in total despite having well below family income compared to the mandatory limit. I was thinking to stop paying for it few times as I don't need to pay a surcharge for not having it. Still I kept it thinking about the two little ones.
Last year my 4 year old broke her hand while she was in the child care. Carers called us and informed this and asked us to pick her up. My wife rushed from work and took her to big public hospital where there was a big queue. She called me and said the little one is in pain and have to wait for at least 4-5 hours before getting treated. So I told her to go to the big private hospital close by as we thought some part might get covered from insurance.
Private hospital said the minimum charge will be $280 and won't be covered from insurances. As it's reasonable and can not go back to public one again, my wife decided to treat her there. They took some X-Rays put a plaster. Bill was $900. Medicare covered about $50 from X-Ray. Nothing was claimable from insurance as it's an emergency. Hospital asked us to come back in 2 weeks to check.
I asked how much this time and they said $280 minimum same as last time. I said I want to go to a public hospital, they said the same Doc has to see her hand and cannot go to a different place now. Went to a GP and he too said the same thing. So I went back to same hospital and they sent a bill for $450 and medicare covered about $50 but nothing from insurance. They asked me to come back in 2 weeks to remove plaster.
I didn't go third time, just went to a GP and took an X-Ray. He removed the plaster.
Last year I paid another $3000 out of pocket as my wife did 2 tests which cost us another $1600 out of pocket for hospital excess and 2 * $250 access. Nothing was found from tests. If I didn't have private cover I would have waited in public one and still get the test done for free but would have spent few months in waiting list.
The bottom line is that you don't save anything for having private cover unless you have a big long term disease that you have to spend long time in hospital.
Do u have car or home insurance
It's the same thing, really depends how risk adverse you are. U don't need car insurance or home if you think it'll be ok or it won't cost much when you have an accident. Hospital with out health insurance is not that bad. If ur a emergency patient it's ok. If your going for elective surgery it's prolly not that good, long waits
Also health insurance is not only hospital, there is extra cover dental, optical, massages, etc, do u use any of them or maybe u should.
Bad analogy. Every Australian has Health Insurance through Medicare.
Private Health just shortens the queue.
You can buy just Extras without the Hospital Cover too.
You need hospital cover to avoid the Medicare Levy Surcharge though
how much is the medicare surcharge?
1%-1.5% depending on what you earn, generally speaking hospital only cover from the ones like NIB cover (which is limited to treatments in public hospital as a private patient) is cheaper than paying the surcharge
http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/incentivessu…
Only once you're earning over $88k as a single. If you earn less than $88k then you currently don't pay any medicare levy surcharge.
Terrible analogy.
More like, do you pay higher premiums to get a low/zero excess.
Medicare/public hospitals provide excellent emergency care, and there is no private option for many emergency care requirements.
Private insurance covers you choosing your doctor (do you have a preference for surgeon?) and potentially a private room - both things I can do without.
It does have value in getting issues addressed sooner in some cases. For example, when I needed to see an opthalmic specialist I had the option of seeing one under medicare at my local hospital or paying to see one privately. If I had taken the private route, health cover would have refunded some of that cost.
In my case the hospital specialist squeezed me in that week.
Private health cover doesn't cover specialists' fees os outpatients. Medicare covers some of it and you wod have been out of pocket some amount. What private health cover does do is cover for hospital charges for private hospitals. If you go to their 'network' hospital often there will be no out of pocket. However you can still be charged higher doctors' fees than Medicare covers and therefore still be out of pocket. Some doctors participate in a 'gap cover' scheme with the private insurers which may reduce your out of pocket but only some providers do that.
We have health insurance.
Wife had emergency surgery
Had to go to public as after hours
Could select private doctor
No gap for the hospital
+1 for addressing the dot points! I've been told in an emergency, initially HI doesn't matter.
A family member's appendix was close to bursting a month or so ago and he was admitted to a private hospital the same day, and that night had surgery. The hospital bill cost $3000 which he had to pay upfront, but would later claim back from insurance. But because he was still in the waiting period for hospital cover, he had to wait until that was over. Seems worth having insurance since he'll get his money back, and this was an instance where you couldn't possibly foresee such an illness occurring.
Once again, would have been covered by Medicare if he'd gone to a Public Hospital.
I had a similar issue with a close to bursting appendix but went to a public hospital.
Operated on that night. Surgeon (head of gastro surgery for the hospital) commented it was the largest appendix he had ever taken out.
I had a week in a shared room to recover. It took slightly longer because I had a mild infection.
Didn't cost me anything.
My family works at public hospital and often see patients using Medicare lying next to patients who used Health insurance, and having the same doctor same procedure and the Medicare patient doesn't go home with bills, while the Heath insured patient does.
Is it the case, if you do end up in public and you have HI, you don't tell the hospital you have cover??
medicare = Waiting list..1 year 2 years… as opposed to when you need it with Private.
It also matters what cover you have. Many people have the minimum cover, for tax purposes.
This waiting list period experience is what I would like to get out of people.
I've heard the usual horror story of waiting a years to get treatment. But just recently I've spoken to two people who don't have HI. One needed hip surgery. He paid to see a specialist ($150) and the specialist got him in within a month at a public hospital. All taken care of by Medicare. The other is my brother who needed required a colonoscopy. He got that done straight away and it was non life threatening. I have to check up what he paid but it was all done through public I believe.
Yep.. this has been the case for the oldies in my extended family too.
Negligible wait…
In Hobart, I was on the waiting list to see a (public) Gastro for four years (never ended up seeing them as I left the state). When I went to a private physician in Adelaide it was less than a month wait. It depends where you live and what sort of specialist/procedure you need.
I would have just paid to see a private specialist.
@bsk
What happens here is that the hospital prefers you to use your private insurance while in hospital. They encourage you to use it saying that you will possibly get a single room and will get a free newspaper and TV while in the public hospital. They also guarantee that the patient will have no out-of-pocket so actually the patient does not go home with bills.
Why does the hospital do this…well the State Government give each hospital a set amount of money each year to cover the cost of treating patients. This has nothing to do with Medicare which is a Commonwealth programme. However if the patient is a private patient in a public hospital medicare will cover part of the cost and the private insurer the rest. It is all the same to the patient but the hospital saves a bit of its money as it doesn't have to use the money the State gives it to treat this patient. To be more cynical…it saves even more money as the patient using private insurance is taking up a bed (OT time, etc.) and therefore the hospital will not need to use that bed, etc. on a public patient which means it is spending much less money.
@oldbugger
Even if you don't tell the hospital that you have cover you will get the same treatment in the public hospital (minus the newspaper and TV!!)
As to the previous questions of having insurance in an emergency, I often find that it does make a difference if you have private insurance. For example if you break an ankle playing sport (I hope you don't)….when you turn up at the ED you will not see a difference, you will get the same staff, pain relief, cast, etc. However, once you are told that you need to get admitted to a ward to get the bone fixed….if you have private insurance the Orthopod will admit you to the private hospital and do the surgery usually that evening. However, if you don't have insurance you will get admitted to a ward in the public hospital and will likely have to wait till they find a spot in their theatre list to do the same.
My sister has 3 kids, the first she went in Privatly and found that it cost her, the next to she went through public.
Ive been debating for a few years whether or not to get it as I got closer to 32. Still haven't been able to find a justifiable reason to get it, despite Tax purposes.
Last year I had an accident and required surgery, was in and of hospital for a few weeks, besides a few meds and the cost of the ambulances it didn't cost me a thing. When I sat back and assessed how my experience would have been different if I had Private Health, I found that it wouldn't have been any different, it still would have been medicare all the way.
Ambos visit cost like 500$+.at least an ambulance cover is a must.
I went to a public hospital and elected to go private based on the promise of a private room. Didn't happen. I was told later by the hospital that it is only to benefit the hospital, going private. So I ran up the costs for my health fund and got nothing out if it. I wasold I would not be out of pocket as well. It was only a week ago. I'll be livid if I get any bills.
that is so right, but they will badger you to find out, as they employ private admission officers to convince you it is the right thing to do…. well right for the hospital maybe not right for you :-)
The first thing they ask you when you go emergency at public hospital is if you have private cover. If you tell them you do and end up doing a surgery at the public hospital you will risk paying hospital excess (in my case $500). If you lie and not tell them you will do it for free and go home without worrying about paying excess.
I think private cover is great for surgeries you need but don't want to wait. And also for choosing your own hospital and doctor. But for emergencies nope.
No. the hospital guarantees that you will have no excess. If you get a bill from the insurer, you need to send it to the hospital and they will take care of it.
You need to check this with the hospital because some smaller public hospitals won't cover the excess.
That is welcome news to me if it is correct.
I am a medical practitioner. And I can tell you this is definitely incorrect.
They will ask you whether you have private insurance because if you do, the medical officers in the emergency department have the option of either referring you to a surgeon in the hospital as a private patient or referring you to a surgeon at a private hospital and transferring you there. Alternatively you can decide to be admitted as a public patient.
All Australian residents with Medicare are entitled to free (well, not really free, it's taxpayer funded) treatment at our public hospitals, regardless of whether you have private insurance.
I injured my knee and needed a knee operation a while back. Fortunately for me, I'd opted to get medium hospital cover, even though i was young. Cover was around 1200 a year with top extras (this was a while back, over 2 years ended up with 2 operations that was over 10k in cost. Plus I didn't have to wait, and I was at a private hospital.
My parents dithered in regards to hospital cover, they thought extras was enough and were slammed with a heavy tax bill. They eventually got hospital cover, but were then slammed an extra 1.5k as they're well over 30.
In the end, health insurance is Government scam/tax to cover the health of old people. I've read as much as half of our premiums is to cover the old.
Everybody gets old….even you!!
yes but the proportion of tax payers to babyboomers, is killing the country. A the same time they have the most voting powers.
Its not foreign investers who are buying up all the houses its the old.
Its not deadbeat unemployed sucking up all the tax payers money its the old.
The politicians are too scared to put pressure on the current aged, because of their votes. Keep your half a million dollar houses, and have a pension.
By the time most of us are old, as a lower portion of voters we're going to get hit hard.
We could always shoot them….;-)
Any pensioner shot dead is on you now mate…
What are you saying? By no means the population of the old (> 50 years old) is greater than the younger one. See http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Populatio…
They most likely have less votes than the younger population group combined (17 to 50). Unfortunately, we cannot filter the non-citizen (non-voter) population from the graph.
You're a knob.
They vote as a block. Vote for whoever gives them the most benefit.
The old have less concerns about the future, just keeping their million dollar house and getting a pension.
I think we've all seen the stats regarding pension growth and newstart growth over the last 10 years. That's ignoring or the freebies and deductions they get.
Too many old people seem to be in the belief that they deserve a middle class lifestyle on the pension.
You are going to be old one day as well. I'm sure you too will work hard to protect your wealth and assets, well by the sounds of things you don't…
Yes and actually I do, we do. Its what Superannuation is about.
Being old isn't the problem, its that there are too many of them.
Hockey recently bought up the subject of pension changes. This should of been addressed 20-30 years ago. But everyone was too scared.
Changing the pension age, is too little too late, as by the time Gen X and Y are in retirement age, we won't be in the problem we are having now.
Don't have Private HI but we do have Private Ambulance Cover for the family (in NSW thru Westfund).
Once I had to be taken to hospital via ambulance after an accident. When we got the bill we just send it to the fund and it was paid.
Another time we had to call the ambulance in the middle of the night due to a hypo emergency for a diabetic. The paramedics came to monitor but eventually there was no need to go to the hospital. The ambulance bill was still paid by the fund.
Also a friend's son hurt his wrist at school and school called ambulance to take him to hospital. The parents were sent the ambulance bill. Their ambulance cover paid for it.
Note that NSW public schools have group ambulance cover. If you have no insurance the school covers the cost. They send a bill to see if they can get you to pay/claim it.
My wife is a Type I diabetic. Private cover enabled her to move onto insulin pump (vs. needles) several years ago. Absolutely life-changing for her; better control and general health, better quality of life. The pump would have cost $12000 without cover (and was $0 with cover, but consumables are approx. $30/month - same with almost any diabetes therapy).
Very specific case, but for us, private cover has been worth it.
Wow, so they still provide coverage even though it's a pre-existing condition? Good to know!
you mean the old?… sorry couldn't help myself.
Until you (and the rest of the male population) have to endure pushing out a 3-4kg human being out of your private parts I don't think you really have the right to tell women how and where they choose to give birth. Yes, our ancestors have given birth in less than ideal conditions, but does that mean we should not progress with time and make use of what is available now?
OP, as with many things in life you will find there's pros and cons to having PHI. Asses your situation and needs and if you can afford it I'd say get it.
My husband and I initially got PHI 8 years ago to avoid the Medicare levy surcharge. We figured that we already give a lot to the tax man so didn't want to give any more. Now, we still keep it to avoid the levy surcharge but we've also found it useful and won't stop having it as long as we can afford it.
This next comment isn't having a go at those who don't have PHI (some of my own family members want it but just can't afford it) but just a food for thought…
Imagine the current wait list that people are on for whatever medical service/surgery they need…now imagine that list again if nobody had PHI.
"Imagine the current wait list that people are on for whatever medical service/surgery they need…now imagine that list again if nobody had PHI"
Ive already solved this in my post above - make a mandatory payment for seeing a Doctor, like $5 / visit. many dumbass bogans and low IQ people will cease to visit a Dr thus freeing it up.
That way, people actually use their brains (no seriously) before thinking of going to a DR.
I know a few friends that went to a Dr for stupid crap only to be given Panadol and other OTC
Perhaps your problem is just with 'dumbass bogans and low IQ people'? Your words, not mine. Do you also realise that some of those people seeing doctors (I presume you mean at the GP) are just there to get a medical certificate for their sick day? Do you have a problem with them, too?
PHI actually doesn't cover visits to the GP. So my comment was in relation to those services that require hospital stays. Whether just a day surgery or one that requires an overnight stay.
I don't think your solution of a mandatory payment will eliminate the waiting times. I've been to GPs that bulk bill and don't bulk bill. I've never had an appointment actually start on time. And there are many reasons for this. Some GPs consult really quickly. Others a little slower. Some take their time with patients and some don't. There are also patients who take their time while in consultation. There's also some places that are just understaffed.
I know people who visited Docs just to get a certificate to show to work and get the medical leave. Charging $5 is a good thing. There are people who are really tight in finance and I feel for them. Still people will stop seeing Docs for no reason and that will save the time wasted in queues.
When I give birth to my babies I will do it however I darn well please. And that is in private, with my own room and with the specialist of my choosing.
As I see it, the problem is that when you have HI often people do not know what is not covered. It seems that people use it without realizing that sometimes it is going to cost them for the doctor, as lots of doctors charge above the scheduled rate, and it seems that can be whatever the doctor chooses to charge. HI in public hospital will cover the accommodation (bed) and medications and in-hospital treatment but often you will loose the private room if someone needing isolation comes in and then you may still pay the extra charged for the private room as you elected to use it, even though you no longer have it. Then there is always the chance that your condition requires you to be transferred to another hospital and if you have used HI then often it easier to get you into a private hospital, then you could end up paying for tests and treatment and another doctor who again will charge whatever they want. Really the amount of possible costs on top of your health insurance is endless, so if you do end up using it in a Public hospital you need to know what you are not covered for and you need to ask every time you are having a test or seeing another doctor if there will be a gap to pay.
I do have it but still consider it to be a massive rip-off as there are so many things it does not cover. The Government giving a rebate is simply a licence for the funds to charge higher premiums in a similar manner to how the first home owner's grant simply pushed up house prices.
I used to work in the same building as Medibank and their offices were absolutely luxurious, funny that.
All the funding and premiums paid to these firms would do a fair job of improving the public system if redirected, just saying. Countries like Finland have the right idea, a great system that is free and properly funded by taxpayers who understand the health/education benefits they are getting and don't spend all their time whingeing about the tax they pay. Proof that it can be done when there is a will to do it.
Few points:
Many private surgeons will refuse to to uninsured patients in their rooms (especially neurosurgery, orthopaedics) so the uninsured are then stuck on LONG waiting lists to be seen in public outpatient clinics followed by LONG wait for surgery. (assuming it is "non urgent"—- believe me, many painful disabling conditions are considered "non urgent" by the public health system- I work in the health industry and can detail dozens of cases of unfortunate, uninsured people in great misery who are on VERY long public waiting lists).
Yes, in most cases emergency care is not really affected by insurance status. But as mentioned above, anything short of an acute emergency can leave you wishing you had insurance, even if it had a massive excess. Waiting 12- 18 months for joint replacement or spinal surgery is no joke and it happens to "young" people too, not just the elderly.
Yes the system is far from perfect and you can feel like a cow being milked by medical specialists and hospitals, but I don't know what is the answer to that. Are medical specialists overpaid? They certainly make a lot more than GP's but I don't know how to make a fair call on that.
Greedy money grubbing doctors, still justifying the cost of their bills with going to med school, even when they're past the age of 50!
Oi, I'm a med student, and my uni fees are ~10,000 p.a, only a little higher than law, or other double degrees… So med school itself is not that absurdly expensive.
Also, I met a builder recently during a scuba diving course. He earns $170,000 pa… (Concidentally, building a hospital) If I really wanted the money I would've dropped out and become a builder instead, because I'm not going to be earning that much for another 8 or so years.
I apologise, I'm sorry. I meant no offense but I've had some really bad experiences with the medical profession to the point where one operated on me without my consent, made me go for 10+ appointments only to ask me to wait and see, and sent me onto a colleague that promptly and correctly diagnosed me with an entirely different condition in one appointment. I consulted a lawyer but there's a cap for personal injuries which made it financially unfeasible to sue.
I've seen good doctors, I've seen bad ones. But so far the score is 2 good doctors and 7 bad doctors.
Anyway, builders may make more now but it's a young man's game, I'm sure you understand that.
I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with doctors. I'm a doctor and like all human beings, there are dishonest and honest people amongst doctors.
We do not justify our costs with going to medical school, that is partially the cost yes, but I've always considered the real stresses in life are the ones that can't be resolved with money. When I was 18 years old and went to medical school, I did it because there was job security eventually - and now the tables have turned, so even that basic motivation has now been made invalid. Now, many years on from that time, I am still a practising doctor. I had spent 15 years working as a trainee doctor for a low salary while going home each night and studying for a further 3-4 hours a night, and 8 hours a day on weekends, with the eventual goal of becoming a specialist. This ungodly lifestyle resulted in mental and physical health problems to myself, as well as nearly a divorce.
As I say the real stresses in life are the ones that can't be resolved with money. You can't pay me enough to put my family and my wife through the stresses. And certainly no amount of money would have been worth a divorce.
Meanwhile my friends in finance, accounting, or engineering or those who went into the mining industry or became tradies, had built successful careers or businesses while I lived the darkest 15 years of my life. They are all highly trained people in their respective fields, and justify their costs and financial rewards accordingly. I pay my accountant a couple of thousand dollars a year, more than I would pay my GP for all of my family's visits to her for the entire year combined. I appreciate that my accountant solves problems that I cannot solve on my own, and probably put their family through a lot of stress to get to where they are now. And THAT is what I pay him for, not the few pieces of paper that is my tax documents at the end of the year.
I'm by no means justifying dishonest behaviour by doctors or anyone else for that matter. There will be dishonest people in all walks of life. But people need to understand that doctors are professionals, just like any other professionals in other fields, the financial rewards being part of a much bigger picture.
I just have to login, just so that i can upvote this comment. @bunnyburger, try not to generalise things and try not to judge things too quickly.
you've clearly never been to uni
I'll read these comments later, but hospitals are not coping with everyone being public patients. The number of nurses and doctors to a patient is very poor. It gets worse every day. Some pregnant women prefer to be seen by the same professionals each visit as a private patient rather than different ones each visit as a public patient. My dad was treated at a public hospital. They requested that he opt in for the exact same treatment as a private patient and be out of pocket $4k in excesses etc, rather that be treated as a public patient. By doing so the tens of thousands of dollars treatment is paid by the insurer rather than the government. They were so grateful for him doing so. I hold heath insurance as i enjoy the peace of mind, but ultimately i pay because I want the service available for those who can't pay.
Its worth it if you have kids. I can tough it out on a waiting list but would never wish for any of my three kids to not have the medical attention they need, hence I pay for private cover.
I don't see any need for it what so ever.
Here's the rundown of most health issues for my family of 4 in the last 18months:
Adult tonsils removed (2 week wait for ENT referral appointment, further 4 month wait to have them removed)
Child #1 Broken collarbone (straight to emergency room, with doc in 20min, surgery that afternoon), broken toe, stretched ankle ligaments, deep cut to scalp requiring many stitches.
Child #2 Emergency room visits for extreme temperature, asthma diagnosis, UTI, what turned out to be chicken pox - seen doc within 45min of every visit. Specialist visits same day.
Bursting appendix (straight to hospital, with doc in 10min, out of surgery later that night)
Physio Visits x 3 ($45 a visit)
Glasses for 1 adult & 1 child ($40 and $80 all up from SpecSavers, including Medicare covered assessment and prescription)
None of these major issues, the visits to specialists or referrals to other docs or surgeons cost us a cent. None of the overnight stays in hospital did either. The tonsil issue was the only one requiring a wait & that wasn't an emergency issue requiring immediate surgery anyway. I expected a 6month+ wait for that at least. The total cost to us for all those services would be not too much more than the cost of 1 month private insurance cover for the 4 or us. It doesn't take a genius to work out if health insurance is worth the money or not.
were all your specialist visits (ENT and child 2) bulk billed and/or in hospital as an in-patient? Specialists don't always bulk bill all patients, so you generally have out-of-pocket expenses (even after your medicare rebate).
Also, some people may want glasses from the $199 range at SpecSavers …
All visits were bulk billed. You can always request a referral to someone who bulk bills in the public system too, so your never going to be in a position of having out of pocket expenses.
Also, people are welcome to piss their money up a wall buying overpriced hipster douchebag glasses :)
I think we need to keep the conversation about Private Health Insurance (Hospital), not Extras (glasses, massages etc.). Extras is not related to Medicare Levy Surcharge.
Thanks for a detailed answer based on personal experience, infinite.
Health insurance would be worth it if it reliably covered everything. No gaps, no excess, no little fees that they squeeze in there that leave your "I've got insurance" with a $x000 bill that YOU have to pay.
Frankly the only way it will get better is if someone comes down on the fraud with a large hammer - insurance should HAVE to mean they cover it, whether they like it or not.
I've always said this about all insurances. OK, pay an excess. But on top of that, you still pay most of the bill???
Not initially then yes
chronic illness, sent to emergency by gp, triage f'd me in the a and waited for half a day, was in and out of public hospital until condition worsened and was referred to surgeon, surgeon botched it among other things and was left with mega hernia. Year later, being on private health, found good surgeon who zipped me up good and proper. Seeing a private specialist who is quite reactive to my needs.
All non consulting, diagnoses and hospital visits have been fully covered even if done at private premises. Wife gave birth to child and paid $2k in obs fees.
if had pi from the start I beleive my condition may have been controlled a bit better and no surgery required, but I am much wiser now then before.
waiting periods have not existed under pi, but apart from getting stuffed around through emergency in public, my original surgery from above was booked in relatively quickly. Also have had a broken jaw fixed the morning after it happened in public (done very well too).
Conclusion, I wouldnt sweat over absolute emergencies. Pre existing conditions though are not worth the risk and in fact a prolonged stay in a public hospital can make you worse (makes MASH look like the Ritz at times). I hope this helps.
Thanks for the story on your personal experience. Glad it is working well for you now.
Only worth it (purely in a monetary sense), if you actually use all your limits!
Do you mean "Extras" or Hospital?
It partially depends on what your local hospital service is like. We have a crap local service so private health insurance is a definite must for us. We also don't ever want to get caught out with a 'non-urgent' issue that causes long term health problems and/or chronic pain, for years on end.
Back in the good old days of our youth when we "didn't need health insurance" hubby had a pilonidal cyst that was infected. Needed surgery to remove it. Got put on public list and told about a 4 month wait - even though he was so ill from the infection that he couldn't walk 20 metres, or go to work. Luckily GP found a way to get him admitted to a smaller hospital an hour's drive away and only a month long wait list. He had to suffer the agonising 2hrs in a car each time we had to return for the surgeon to check and re-pack the wound (every couple of days for a week).
When I was sitting in a queue in the radiology department at our local private hospital I got chatting to the gentleman next to me. He was in a great mood as he was finally going to get a shoulder reconstruction. He'd been in crippling pain for over a year and barely able to sleep because of his shoulder and all he'd been offered was strong painkillers while he sat waiting for his 'non-urgent' surgery. The specialist had told him he had three options; pay the $25K (?) upfront, go get private health cover and wait a year or go on the public list and wait 2+ years. And here he was a year later, getting it done privately as he was still waiting on the public list.
The one time I have used the public system; I got sent home with a missed broken elbow. The wait was ridiculously long for the amount of people there, the doctor was useless, the radiologist who looked at my X-rays the next day had recommended they follow up with me as he suspected a fracture - they didn't (I only found this out as I requested the notes a week later for my GP). I ended up having to go the private route to actually get properly diagnosed and fixed up.
Husband's workmate's wife had twins at our local public hospital. They were so busy that there wasn't room for her back in the ward and so she was left in the ward hallway (on a bed) for 3-4 hrs after she'd just had the twins. Ugggghhh…just what you want when you've just given birth.
The one thing that irritates me no end about private health insurance is the amount of out of pocket expenses you still have to pay when you use it. They are ridiculously high. The insurance really doesn't cover as much as it makes out that it does.
my wife requires significant lifelong treatment.
her health insurance cost is approx $430 per quarter.
her treatment per quarter costs approx $3000 -covered by HI.
private health insurance allows her to see her highly competent, dedicated and higly specialised medical practitioner(associate professor) every 3 weeks.
Previous to private health insurance we were public at the local hospital. Her treating doctor there was incompetent and was basically killing her through mismanagement (verified by 2 different independent specialists from Melbourne).-she would have died if she had stayed there.
the level of treatment at her current hospital/medical centre is at the other end of the spectrum from her public hospital experience for her situation. literally. it would be like comparing a rolls royce phantom to a lada niva (the lada has been set on fire, t-boned by a freight train and has the rotting carcuses of 5 beheaded goats on the back seat; and it has been very hot for the last 3 weeks)
in the public system she would have treatment every 4 weeks. she would have to go in on monday to get a blood test, tuesday she would go in again to see her treating doctor (bloods test would finally be ready) and wednesday she would have her treatment. Each day she would have to wait to be seen -sometimes up to 3 hours. we also had to worry about picking up children from day care or school as well. it ws just shambles, disorganised, unprofessional and tiring.
at her current medical centre, for the last 2 years, she goes in once every 3 weeks (now a different treatment) for 4 hours and they do the blood test, seen by specialist and has medication/infusion in that one appointment. barely waits, and if she does wait it is for no longer than 20 minutes and the staff apologise to her.
though when we had a first 2 children we were living in albury/wodonga and without health insurance. the maternity hospital is in Wodonga. both times she had a large spacious modern twin room to herself. staff were extremely attentive.
so, depends on where you are getting treatment.
but private health in our current situation has been fantastic, literately a life saver. - worth every single cent.
I am glad to hear the positive side of PHI.
Does PHI cover out patient services (like seeing a specialist) the ones you've mentioned? I'd like to know the details of your cover (insurer, level of the cover) so that I too can get it. Currently I have a top hospital cover but nothing for outpatient services.
Nil hospital excess. BUPA
doesn't cover outpatient services.
we hit the Medicare threshhold pretty early on in the year so most of the outpatient service costs are reimbursed by Medicare
her treatment per quarter costs approx $3000 -covered by HI.
private health insurance allows her to see her highly competent, >dedicated and higly specialised medical practitioner(associate >professor) every 3 weeks.
Is this a day surgery like thing? (It sounded to me like an outpatient service)
Worth it just to avoid the darn Medicare Levy (ends up being more than private health insurance).