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Short, and long-term, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out…
http://www.zdnet.com/au/ispone-sues-telstra-to-stop-mobile-s…
19/8: Gizmodo:ispONE Cancels Telstra Contract, Calls In Administrators
ispONE in adminstration, Kogan Mobile to shut down, Aldi Mobile OK with interim agreement
[Deactivated] on 12/08/2013 - 17:31
Last edited 19/08/2013 - 18:16 by 1 other user
Last edited 19/08/2013 - 18:16 by 1 other user
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One of the articles is ISPOne are claiming Telstra has over charged them by $19M dollars. Yes Million!
Sounds about right for Telstras billing system
Doesn't entirely add up though. Telstra claim they are owed $12M, and ISPOne claim they are owed by Telstra (presumably $7M). Why would you over pay your bills by $7M?
ISPOne also claim that they had a promise of competitive rates to optus, so it sounds like they are using optus numbers to come up with their bills (not quite how business works).
Also the alegedly unrelated rebranding as iBoss this week, which just so happens to sheild them (somewhat) when IPSOne goes under is very suspicious.
In short; ISPOne are super dodgy.
Possible conspiracy: Perhaps Telstra made them the exclusive partner expecting them to fail? Doubtful though.
Went over thier data limit by 500mb?
I wonder if it'll turn out that ISPOne is owned by Telstra.
i'm guessing ispone is out of money
I think it's fair to assume that they're not happy campers at the moment - profit-wise or otherwise.
Irrespective of the total impact of all the legal action, you do at least get the inkling that if - just my speculation - they've entered into a new arrangement with Kogan (coinciding with the recent prices increases) it may need to work out very keenly for them.
When margins are tight as they might be, it will ultimately and simply come down to the bottom-line.
We shall no doubt discover just what that is - eventually…Things couldn't be any worse than the Pennytel's strife.
Telstra have a very long history of cheating their wholesale customers
also pretty good at screwing their retail customers too :-(
and everything else on two legs with money……
I am pretty sure that they would have screwed over some amputees along the way.
oh snap!
Telstra rapeing Australia for all adsl and photo services for years. now with NBN it will hopeful It will be over let hope other guy do not get in.
Screenshots of the email Kogan is sending out today:
part1 http://i.imgur.com/k89Gkzv.jpg
part2 http://i.imgur.com/XgIYjvm.jpgGrepable version:
13th August 2013
Dear Kogan Mobile Customers,
Thank you for joining us on the journey to make mobile access in Australia more affordable. We entered the mobile industry in order to increase competition and give consumers more choice and better value. Since starting Kogan Mobile, we are proud to now serve more than 115,000 active customers.
We have fought hard for the Australian consumer - there have been endless negotiations and even the occasional visit to the Supreme Court to protect our customers' interests and ensure that our customers continue to get the best deals. However, there are forces at play in the Australian telecommunications market that are beyond our control, very powerful and impossible to ignore.
You may be aware that we procure our mobile services for part of the Telstra 3G Network through Telstra's sole and approved distributor - ispONE. ispONE is the only company in Australia that wholesales Telstra's Prepaid 3G Services and is essential to the operation of our and any business through that network. Telstra's Prepaid 3G Network is not integrated with any other wholesale platform, other than ispONE's.
Since day one, Kogan Mobile has complied with all its obligations to its service providers. We keep our agreements. We have paid every invoice on time or early. Like our customers, we expect our service providers to deliver what they have been paid for.
Kogan Mobile has recently become aware of the following -
•Telstra is in dispute with ispONE, Telstra's sole distributor of prepaid 3G mobile services and Kogan Mobile's essential supplier
•Telstra has taken steps to terminate its contract with ispONE. If Telstra terminates its contract with ispONE this is very likely to impact Kogan Mobile's own customers' services (through no fault of Kogan Mobile)
•ispONE has commenced proceedings against Telstra in the Federal Court and obtained a short term injunction to restrain Telstra from terminating its contract with ispONE The Federal Court ordered Telstra and ispONE to attend mediation. Although not party to the Federal Court proceedings, Kogan Mobile is permitted to (and will) attend the mediation
Kogan Mobile is doing everything it can to protect its customers.
We are monitoring these developments closely, as they may affect the continuity of our prepaid mobile services. We will provide a further update when further information comes to hand.
You may also wish to contact Telstra directly, and ask Telstra what it intends to do in respect of its wholesale prepaid mobile business and customers' mobile telephone services if it achieves its goal of terminating its contractual arrangements with ispONE.
Kindest regards,
Kogan Mobile
Thanks Bruce. I've never tried imgur before - was interested to see just how much less blurry things containing large text would end up - at least relative to some than of the receipts unloaded onto OzB…
Didn't notice that - good to know. Even a couple of compression steps and jpegs can be a mess. Bane of the web - and lots of people's sharing and storing of memories.
At least as regards the somewhat less data constrained world we live in now.
One day Bruce, photography-wise, we'll all be able to fit all the RAW footage we might ever be inclined to shoot - on one memory card.
Mr.Kogan will sell that memory card to us at a special price…Few points:
1: jpeg is very good at what it does. What it does is real world photography. In much the same way as mp3 (or better codecs) are good at music, but not good at digital data streams. A high res good jpeg encode is every bit as good as RAW for most people.
2: jpeg is terrible at everything else. It was never intended for artificial screen shots, text and other precise content. Not only is png lossless (and thus perfect detail) it is also often smaller than even rubbish jpeg encodes for this type of data. Thus your comments regarding capacity do not apply. There is no reason NOT to use PNG for this type of content (unless you still deal with terrible old IE version that were just broken).
3: RAW con be considered to be a better version of jpeg, but it is not a replacement for PNG. It can do lossless encoding, but it is designed for real world photos (like jpg). It also can do lossly encoding, so it should be thought of as just higher detail jpg.
On the 'on day we will have all the storage' comment my personal thoughts:
Already this isn't so much of an issue, transfer rates are. I don't shoot in jpg because my card will run out in RAW, I do it because I have to move those files around at some point. My card has more than enough for day to day use, my NAS has heaps for ongoing storage, and amazon s3 is (almost) a bottomless pit. Eventually when we can stream from the camera to amazon in real time, who cares how large the card is? The problem becomes simply one of throughput.
That and for most people, jpeg is actually really good.
this is not a comment i was expecting on the thread lol
Grepable version:
That's very nerdable of you…
Grepable
What does that mean, I understand he converted it to text but didn't get the grepable part ?
[Win]-F for those of us not that nerdy.
Kogan and Aldi will whinge that Telstra should allow them to continue the service even if ISPOne folds (which I reckon they will).
Telstra shareholders will again carry the burden of increasing competition in the market…
Telstra will offer this, at stupid prices, knowing that Aldi and Kogan have no choice.
They will be fleaced for as long as it takes them to migrate over to the Optus network and we will be back where we where before when you are stuck with forking out all your cash to telstra if the Optus network isn't good in your location.
Shareholders can go cry a river.
So Telstra should build all the infrastructure to make the best mobile network in the country - and then give it to competitors at dirt cheap prices??
Why doesn't Aldi go and put its own mobile towers in every Aldi store and run their own infrastructure….
So Telstra should build all the infrastructure to make the best mobile network in the country - and then give it to competitors at dirt cheap prices??
When did Telstra give it to competitors at all except for this recent venture? And how is it dirt cheap prices? And who forced them to do it?
Don't even get me started on how Telstra got most of it's infrastructure.
Why doesn't Aldi go and put its own mobile towers in every Aldi store and run their own infrastructure….
Why doesn't Kogan do this? Why doesn't TPG do this? Why doesn't Virgin do this? It's much cheaper to use another carrier's existing infrastructure than to place your own set of mobile towers around Australia. Keep in mind, you'll need far more towers than just 1 in each Aldi store - if you want to set up and maintain your own national mobile network, then you'll need thousands of mobile towers to cover most of the Australian population(lots of $$$), a 24/7 team that monitors the network and deals with outages, as well as other maintenance and support infrastructure in place.
Then you'll need to start convincing customers to move over to your new 'Aldi' network - and explain to them how your network can possibly be better than any of the currently established networks that have been around for decades.
Haven't you wondered why there are only 3 mobile network operators in Australia, and why they all happen to be huge multinational telco conglomerates (with the exception of Telstra - since it was in the market first).
Question is, if court finds in Telstra's favour, negotiations turn sour and Telstra cancels Kogan and Aldi's service - will either Optus/Voda take these resellers on board? If not, those 280,000 customers are pretty screwed.
Even if they do, both Kogan and in particular Aldi are stilling 850/2100 phones specifically for their service. These will work on the Optus network, but not well and only in cities.
Wow, ok Bruce. (edit: slow typing; response to your comment two above)
I rarely shoot in RAW format because I'm personally not 'inclined' to - for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I referenced it by way of the relative. As for not mentioning the issue (that we all know too well) of transfer speed, I didn't think it was necessary given a whimsical musing on what might be, tech-wise, in the future.The big issue (feel free to argue if you want), is irrespective of initial jpeg resolution, that along the way, the 'save as jpeg' mindset has led LOTS of people to forget the degradation that comes with each generation. Vast numbers of people unwittingly store and share degraded-res jpegs everyday.
Even Kevin Rudd thinks that PNG is a good thing… I certainly didn't suggest otherwise.
I took two simple screenshots, on mobile, on default settings.I think what you are talking about is when you upload a jpeg to some image sharing site (such as facebook) which then automatically decides to lower the resolution and increase the compression. There are plenty of services that will do this and plenty that don't, but it doesn't really have anything to do with jpeg as a format.
The only way I can see to get people to use the 'correct' encoding (again, png is good, but jpeg is still better for pictures) is to have a container format that can automatically detect content type and apply the best encoding type, because putting people in the loop is just asking for trouble apparently.
Uploading to Imgur saw the jpeg data cut by half, but that's not what I was referring to at all. I was talking about the further generational compression of already compressed images, and the foolish and unnecessary storing and distribution of these - often by the people who take the photos in the first place. I reckon that the number of people with harddrives containing many of their own photos in nowhere near their original resolution, is huge.
Lots of upheaval in MVNO and related at the moment. Just read that Savvytel are shutting up shop in a few weeks. They can share a drink with Redbull and Pennytel. I reckon a couple more to join them in the near future, most probably.
So is there any reason why Kogan isn't going to use this to their advantage and try and swoop in and secure the same contract once ISPone finally goes belly up?
They already have the clients, why not cut out the middleman and be the middleman for Aldi Mobile while there at it? It may not be a huge amount of extra money in their coffers but they'll be making more per customer and can guarantee that they will be cheaper than their competition.
Telstra have just stated that they have a 'contingency' plan to minimise impact on Kogan and Aldi Mobile customers if ties are severed with ispONE.
As regards your idea - assuming Kogan really wants in boots-and-all, I guess anything is possible.Underlying all of this, I think, is Telstra being tremendously less than happy that in double-quick-time, 280,000 customers that may in significant numbers may have ended up on their relaunched version of Boost, are elsewhere.
For me, and plenty of other people, 3GB a month just isn't enough - so NextG access notwithstanding , Boost just ain't an option.
I'm still not happy about Kogans 400mb a day cap. But then I still don't get why I can't get a mobile phone plan that's got ~20gb of monthly data since I don't have home Internet.
You can - on the Optus $2 days prepaid plan - if you're okay with the 60 bucks a month - and the Optus network. Unlimited data, but tethering is against the T&C's.
I think Pennytel had 14GB a month plus unlimited calls for $25 a month (on Vodafone), but some seemingly serious 'business' problems sees the company in liquidation.One of the phones i have is an Optus $1 days (no, they don't offer this any more, but it's similar to the $2 days).
I've downloaded maybe 3-4G each day on a couple of consecutive days without a problem (admittedly after a period of low usage), and they still didn't cut me off, or even pop me a message. Having said that i don't recommend it.
Re tethering - it may well be against their T&C's, but i've been doing it for several years without an issue. I also do it for a WOW $29/45day/5G prepaid without any problems. I'd say high download within a short period is the scenario to be careful of…
Telstra said it had a contingency plan in place to limit the impact on those affect customers.
That's the most interesting line from the entire article.
Just what do they have in mind? - they can't do anything they like just because they're on their network - would be interesting to see the contract between them - actually that would be key to the case so maybe it will be released…Wholesale market for Telstra has always been an interesting one, given some of that amounts to lost (highly profitable) direct retail customers.
I've got 5 active mobiles at the moment. Who the hell needs that many???
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/353335,ispone-pays-another-200…
Telco claims wholesaler is "bankrupt".
ispONE will pay a further $200,000 to ensure continuity of service from Telstra for another day while mediation between the two over unpaid bills moves into its second day.
God, what a mess. Anyone's guess as to what the final wash-up will be.
Telstra's point that ispONE miscalculated the actual amount of use to which Kogan and Aldi customers would put their plan to - as regards call, txt, and especially, data - is almost certainly true.
Everything else, and it does seem - everything else - is for the wisdom, and hopefully within the bounds of the law, the discretion of the judge to determine.Lots of potential disruption for alot of customers, in the balance.
So what they expected to offer cheap unlimited plans on the best network and have minimal usage?
I don't abuse my calls or text nearly as much as I could but I certainly get my $25 a month ($299 a year) worth and I use my 5gb every month without fail. I've gone from a $70 per month plan and I use my phone more now than I did then, how outrageous are their expectations?Just few Q's
- Is ispone the only reseller of the telstra network? By which i mean manage the network that third party compaines like kogan and aldi use.
- Would optus have a similar set up? And if so who manages thier third party network providers?
1: Yes.
2: Yes. Basically every mobile provider than isn't mentioned here (telstra, kogan, aldi and vodaphone) uses the optus network. I think they do it direct, but don't know for sure.
2A: The optus network does not use the same frequencies as the telstra network. For some phones porting over will result in bad or no signal.
Would have thought that they would deal direct to telstra and not a middle man as this i woul have thought would be sort of like a manopoly ( the only way to pass go is give us your $200).
I know that optus use a different frequency 900/2100 as aposed to telstra 850/2100.
They will work on 2100 but in limited areas.
I dare say lte would be a different picture as i heared telstra might change the lte frequencies when it expands and upgrades the network. ( maybe lte - a)Vaya and tpg use optus network and i assume they deal directly with optus.
I dare say lte would be a different picture as i heared telstra might change the lte frequencies when it expands and upgrades the network. ( maybe lte - a)
Optus want to change as well. Both networks see the current LTE system as temporary, it is really just a cash grap on the '4G' marketting. For now though they are both the same.
Yes ISPone is the a reseller for the Telstra network, if they go under I assume that both Aldi Mobile and Kogan Mobile will enter quick negotiations with Telstra as they used Telstra's name as a major selling point. I can see it ending one of two ways, with either Kogan or Aldi (or a third party due to anti competition laws and such) becoming the new ISPone and dealing with Telstra or Kogan and Aldi will make a deal with Optus.
At the end of the day everyone loses, ISPone is going under because they are idiots with their pricing model. Telstra will lose a contract and hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) in legal and operating costs. Kogan and Aldi will lose customers who are concerned with their reliabilty and also because Kogan have stopped offering their Access90 and Access365 plans because of the issues and finally customers lose out because we shouldn't have to read about our deal with this shit.I don't believe they do anymore other than Virgin, Boost is a Telstra reseller (which is basically the same as Kogan and Aldi but without the middleman) and Optus have also ditched Allphones and Telechoice (apologies if I've got that wrong I'm going from memory) as they want to refocus their branding.
-edit- looks like Bruce knows his stuff a bit more than me about Optus.
Such a big snowball.
At the end of the day everyone loses, ISPone is going under because they are idiots with their pricing model. Telstra will lose a contract and hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) in legal and operating costs.
Totally agree that Aldi, Kogan and the consumer loose, however:
ISPOne as a name will go under, but they are already moving to iBoss to protect from damages. The people behind it will go on to do similar things again (unfortunately common).
Telstra will win. 12M is small change to them and it is probably an inflated figure, I am sure they are NOT actually loosing money out of this. They look like the good guys because they have ISPOne to blame. They also get to cut a deal with Aldi and Kogan on basically any terms they like. Finally the hundreds of thousands of indirect ISPOne customers have phones that may not work on UMTS 900Mhz, which is as good as a network lock to Telstra, so where else are they going to go?
lose*
They look like the good guys because they have ISPOne to blame.
Since most things point to ISPOne's business model being the problem how is Telstra responsible?
If we get switched off the telstra network, are we entitled to ask for our money back seeing this isn't what we signed up for?
If the proverbial really does hit the fan and ispONE and/or their contract with Telstra ends up kaput, the ONLY acceptable 'contingency plan' - as characterised by Telstra - would be something that FULLY matches the phone and data plans of Kogan and Aldi - for the term of people's current arrangements.
Anything else would be unacceptable, and both Kogan and Aldi would need to refund on a pro rata basis - plus very generous compensation for the grief incurred by customers. It would represent a terrible scar for both businesses if they didn't.
The Aldi support desk must be getting hammered atm.
I've been calling all day and it just says too busy to take the call.
I was just after an SMTP server for the Aldi sim if possible.Just an FYI in case someone sees this via a search.
We are sorry but we currently do not support e-mail services so we do not have such settings.
But since we are using Telstra's network, you may wanna try to use mail.bigpond.com though we cannot guarantee that this will work.It didnt.
Back to vodafone everybody! Runs with flame of enlightenment
I would rather have a scalding hot metal skewer driven through my urethra while I lay butt naked in the snow listening to Cher's greatest hits then have vodafail as my provider.
I really didn't need that mental image.
I can arrange this.
Please PM me.hey
BAHAHAHAHA. Can't believe I made the paper…
[spoiler](Not me)[/spoiler]
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/ispone_calls_in_administrato…
A Telstra Wholesale spokesman said the company had entered into a direct interim agreement with ALDI Mobile’s contractor Medion to ensure services with the company were not severed.
However, it would not be accept new requests for Kogan Mobile services, the company said, despite negotiations between the companies in a bid to hammer out a similar direct agreement.
“An interim service will be available for a fixed period of time for people who have active pre-paid mobile services from Kogan Mobile so they have time to choose their next steps,” said Telstra Wholesale director Stuart Lee in a statement.
Telstra wanted more than Kogan would pay. I expect Kogan to move to Optus. Aldi might too, but they will take their time as they have been selling all these 850 phones.
Not sure if that's Kogan being cheap or Telstra hiking up the data price to the point that it makes it unaffordable for Kogan.
If Kogan moves to Optus I will be demanding my money back since I left Virgin (Optus) due to bad local coverage. Hopefully one of them is bluffing and they can strike up a deal. I'd happily pay slightly more for the same service $30 ($359?) a month for a year instead of previously $299 (then $329) since its with Telstra and their coverage is impeccable.
Virgin Mobile = Zero coverage major congestion problems.. I sincerely hope neither aldi or kogan end up switching to use the optus network.
Virgin Mobile = Zero coverage major congestion problems.
Really location dependent. True only in some places.
I get heaps of congestion issues with my VirginMobile service…..
I live in the city and there's no problem at all
I just spoke to Kogan, and they confirmed the following;
You will receive communication from Kogan Mobile shortly.
I can assure you will not be out of pocket as a result of this, and that Kogan Mobile will be providing pro rata refunds for the unused portion of their service.
Refunds from Kogan?? That should be interesting.
Better start asking for refunds from now.
Just received word that Kogan will refund all customers for unused credit on pre-paid plans.
Great, grumpy cat is happy. Now who to switch to? Redbull?
BOOST??
Back to telstra or optus !!
LOL
I have 5 sims I haven't activated yet, should be interesting, only paid $25 but waited about 6 weeks for them.
Another update from AFR journo:
Kogan users will be cut off in a month's time
Telstra will move Kogan customers to a 7-day plan with 20 SMS/20min of calls. Will be cut off after that.
It's unclear if Kogan customers on the 365-day prepaid plan will be refunded for unused data/calls at this stage.
“Because Medion and Telstra Wholesale have been able to negotiate a direct supply agreement there will be no changes to the services for ALDI Mobile.
Phew, lucky for AldiMobile customer..
Especially for Kogan customers, all is going to go a bit pear-shaped, it would seem.
I believe that Telstra being spooked by Kogan's take-up rate will be what underpins all of this. If you've ever NOT regarded Telstra as bad guys, it may well and truly be time to start…If Kogan does end up on Optus, they will have use the strength (at least that which remains) of their customer base, to negotiate a deal similar to Woolies. In other words - running on the main Optus network - as opposed to the speed throttled 'Open Network'.
Woolworths would not be happy, and will no doubt seek to prevent.It may turn out that the only way to maintain Kogan's current data offer (only remaining key selling point in the absence of Telstra), will be to do a very keen deal with Vodafone.
If Kogan make a very generous offer to customers of 'here's a new sim - try before you leave altogether', it may be of very significant benefit to Vodafone, who are REALLY struggling to convince people that their network has improved at all, post-vodafail publicity.We shall see…
Telstra are bad because ISPOne had no clue what they were doing and went bust???
Exactly. Telstra offers pricing arrangements to an intermediary which (it seems) then offers customers plans which bring in far less money (due to usage) than they cost wholesale. Telstra spooked by extra customers? Not likely, as long as they pay their bills according to Telstra's pricing arrangements.
It was bad & stupid form for it screw over professionals, in their 120 K and as Telstra's strongest promoters- all but likely now turned foes. From the roughshod behind scenes job on 8 year 'partner'-the dispatched ISPOne('#1 RIP KoganMobile') and that exposed, begs a question What might befall #2 \RSP Aldi Medion - ?- Name-Such date that would become fleeced as well. If this does not show like oligopoly gone completely rotten.. .
We might well admit the effective conspiracy formed with Sing tel Optus' unilateral collapsing down side mnvo's, that this combined disease reek of condemnable collusion across a most squalid field of telcos.
NB Prospective Part- 3G Wholesale Network Virtual Operator ,
Get ALL the your Contractual in writing, OR bite the dust .http://www.itnews.com.au/News/353942,will-telstra-kill-austr…
During the trial between ispONE and Telstra, Justice Pagone was careful to establish if the so-called Optus pricing was included anywhere in the agreement between the two parties. It was not.`
It would be interesting to know how many of his 850/2100MHz Agora phones Kogan has sold, as that would serve as an extra dollop of motivation to brave a Vodafone arrangement.
Also, former - and soon to depart - customers of Redbull Mobile, who were sad about their trip to the abattoir - but happy with the service, may end up compensating somewhat for other customers who may leave.Was already posted!
Will be going out and buying 2x Aldi sims later this evening it would seem ;D
Girlfriend's only been on Kogan for a month and I for 5 months :/
I'd be a little careful. Who knows how long the Aldi deal will last.
Aldi only has "interim" deal with telstra
Nasty details of Telstra's plans for Kogan customers:
www.zdnet.com/telstra-picks-over-remains-of-ispone-saves-ald…No more recharging. After maximum of 30 days Telstra will port numbers onto their (appalling) 'limited 7 day plan'. No data, 20 voice call minutes, 20 texts.
Couple of key paragraphs from ZDNet article:
Telstra cited the fact that it does not have access to Kogan customer data, and cannot therefore provide any customer support; the telco does not regard Kogan Mobile customers as Telstra customers.
If they don't have customer data, they can't do anything!
Kogan isn't about to give Telstra all their (still valuable) customer data…
Customers with concerns are being urged to speak to their retail providers, but Lee warned of potential delays due to industry limits in processing churning and porting requests.
Shed-load of customers transitioning at around the same time is a nightmare for everyone…
Telstra could have just done nothing…
The time you have left to consume any existing voice, SMS and data balances will depend on when you are moved to the 7 Day Plan. This could be any time during the next 30 days. We will prioritise those with no or low credit balances or time left on their plan, consistent with our aim to keep the mobile number porting process working efficiently.
What is the limited 7 Day Plan?
During the 7 Day Plan the service will be limited to 20 voice call minutes and 20 SMS messages to Australian numbers, while data services, international calls and MMS will be excluded. Voice call durations will be rounded up to the next whole minute and the 20 minutes allowance includes calls forwarded to voicemail.So.. at any point in the next month you will suddenly have no data and only 20mins calls and 20 SMS. And this is their plan to stop sudden mass migration?
It certainly is their plan to engender more hate.
I am on a 12 months plan with Kogan… Will be interesting to see how they refund the money!
same here
Oh ok phew…that's a bit more relieving, time to port my number and then hopefully get the refund from Kogan
Interesting. So basically
Unsettling indeed.