hi i was wondering if anyone knew which rolex models tend to retain their value or even appreciate over a period of time.
Buying a Rolex.. need tips
Bargainboi on 19/07/2013 - 22:08
Comments
I went on rolexforums but couldn't see any of he threads.. Maybe I need to become a member first.
What are the older submariners?? Like how old and do they look different to the new ones
Pretty safe with a Rolex, as has been said the sports models maybe a little better. Daytona, Sub, GMT Master probably hold their value better than a Datejust or president. Why buy a Rolex though!! For that money there's a lot of choice around.
always wanted a rolex haha, i was looking at a second hand sub. do you know around what price they should be?
As someone else said, have a look at www.watchrecon.com loads of 2nd hand watches from almost every brand. Site is an aggregator from the sales threads of the popular watch forums. Maybe also have alook at the Rolex board on www.watchuseek.com
Personally I'm more of an Omega guy, I dont have a Rolex but I would love a Daytona or a GMT Master II, or even a Milgaus!
+1. I'd go Omega Planet Ocean over a Rolex sub any day.
James Bond style? I know if I had the cash those grab my eye. :)
If its "just accurate time keeping" then you'd just buy a $10 quartz watch.
People do buy mechanical watches for reasons other than just timekeeping — and it's not always just to "show it off" and "get approval from other people"
Mate, we are taking in the context of quartz vs mechanical - oscillation of quartz crystal in quartz watches are far more accurate than the oscillation of internal balance wheels in mechanical watches. This was one of the reasons why mechanical industry nearly went under in the 80s when the Japanese quartz (Casio, Seiko etc) were coming into popularity
Quartz watches may vary by a few seconds per month, whereas mechanical can +/- a few seconds per day (the variance obviously depends on the movement, but can be anywhere between 4-6s/day)
Why one would buy a Rolex? Many reasons. Workmanship. Full in-house movement. Materials - 904L oyster bracelets (Google that).
Hey buddy chill … no need to get your knickers in a bother.
You have your reasons why you'd prefer $600 watches - fair enough. But its being presumptuous to categorically state that the only reason one buys a Rolex is to show off.
Some certainly do it for this reason, but to presume that is the only reason smacks of ignorance really.
You admitted that one of the reasons your bought your Citizen watch was because you thought it "looks better". Why can't someone else buy a watch they think "looks better". Do watches depreciate quicker if not approved by the almighty grapedrink? I bought my quartz Seamaster because I think it's about the most attractive watch I've seen in my life, and should last about my whole life. Paid about $1200AUD for it a few ago when our dollar was horrendous and it's cost me a $40 battery/pressure test since. Love it.
Wat the? Just because it looks better than a Rolex doesn't mean that's the reason I bought. Where did I say that?????
You missed my point entirely. Paying for nothing, means you get nothing for your money. In this case you're paying for only a brand name, Rolex. That's like throwing away thousands of dollars to satisfy your own EGO. Buying a Rolex is an egotistical purchase and nothing else. The technology in a rolex is primitive by todays standards. That is a fact, prove me wrong.
$1200 is reasonable but as its a quartz you're getting inaccurate time keeping without being able to correct itself. Again, you just stated you bought the watch solely because of its looks.
that makes your purchase based on appearance alone rather than functionality and durability. In my books that's a poor reason to spend over $1000 on a wrist watch and you obviously didn't put much thought into itSure, some people buy a Rolex because they're intending to dive to the bottom of the Mariana trench, or because they're journeying to deepest Africa and would love to have a statement on their arm that says "Please mug me".
Just to further sully your Omega purchase. My $600 Citizen can sync with an atomic clock (the most accurate clock in the world) ensuring my watch is accurate day in / day out. it puts itself into "reciving mode" and attempts to recieve radio signals from a japanese radio station at 2am every day. whilst its very hard to recieve the signals here, I have a manual workaround where I simply hold my watch up to my pc speakers and in about 10 seconds its synced to the atomic clock.
its also an eco-drive watch which means its light powered, and never needs a battery replacement (IN THEORY). it has a perpetual calendar, titanium coated band and titanium constructed bezel and watch face, far more durable than your $1200 omega. its also DLC treated, so getting it scratched is VERY hard. not to mention it has a sapphire crystal glass facing.
Useful in a post-apocalyptic world… where you really need to be able to tell the time and date to atomic accuracy.
First of all, let me say that your watch sounds very cool indeed - sincerely. Mod: Removed personal attack My reasons for purchasing my watch were:
- Graduation present to myself
- Looks - the Omega Seamaster is an extremely good looking watch - in my opinion.
- Durability - with proper care, this watch will last forever.
- Timekeeping - Unfortunately my watch doesn't pick up Japanese radio, and I have the mammoth task of fixing the <3 minutes it might lose in a year. Though it does have this really advanced feature whereby I pull out the crown and correct it by hand in about 5 seconds - twice as quick as bizarrely holding it up to my computer speakers.
Why are you getting onto people about buying a watch just for "looks"? If you really didn't care about looks, and just wanted an ultra accurate time keeping device, you would have just had this bookmarked on your portable device of choice: http://www.atomic-clock.org.uk/atomic-clock.php
I had a look at the range of Citizen Atomic/Eco-Drive watches and don't actually like the look of any of them - too much going on for my taste. Why the actual f*** would I buy an item that was going to be attached to my body 24/7 if I didn't like the look of it? My watch is my only possession that I sort of "lashed out" on. Most of everything else I own is extremely utilitarian - car/clothes etc. Mod: Removed Personal Attack
Oh I am glad your watch keeps absolutely perfect time. You would be late every day if you had bought anything else. Stop being ridiculous your watch does exactly the same thing as every other watch out there and yes that includes a $5 watch from the reject shop. Does that make you mad?
Cx Swiss military have same ETA movement or better and are of superior build quality. Rolex, simply paying for a name not a watch.
Rolex make their own movements.
Tudor which is a sister brand of Rolex has ETA movements in them but the casings and bracelets are made by Rolex.Hundreds of brands use ETA movements. Lately Swatch (Brand that owns ETA) have been restricting supply of ETA movements to non Swatch brands. As a result there are several ETA clone movements getting around including Sellita (Swiss) and Sea-Gull (chinese). Many of the bigger brands that source ETA modify the movements (Omega co-axial escapement etc). A lot of the micro brand watches are switching from ETA across to Miyota (citizen) movements since their new movement now hacks. I have just bought a Magrette professional with the Miyota movement and it is great!
I've never owned a CX Swiss military but I have a Hamilton with an ETA 2824 in it that cost me $300 ish! brand new with an international warranty from an authorized dealer.
As tomee said though, Rolex make their own movements, not ETA!
Rolex is the only brand in a very small handful (I think around 5-6) that use in-house movements for ALL of its watches
Huh, i thought everything we buy must be brand name!
That's what all my friends who buy Apple phones tell me.
I'd say 60% of retail, for a secondhand rolex.
Make sure you get it checked out, thoroughly. Some copies are pretty good.
what are your guys opinion on explorer I
Very classic watch - IMHO far better than the new explorer II due to better proportion on the lugs, dial, dial-hands
I am looking at getting the explorer I now, but alot pt people recommend subs over rolexforums etc..
I guess it depends on what type of watch you're after in terms of use.
All personal opinions only —
Explorer is a far more subtle watch than the Submariner. It has a smaller profile on the wrist (and arguably less presence due to the maxidials on the Sub) and thus makes for a great dress watch funnily enough.
The Sub certainly stands out more, and is more recognisable due to its higher profile (reputationlly and physically due to its Bezel and thickness). I subscribe to the argument that the Sub is a good everyday watch - it goes equally well with jeans or a suit. It is also a watch you wouldn't be apprehensive taking into the water. Personally that's why I'd pick the Sub over the Explorer due to is versatility.
The calibres are different in both watches, but dial-sizes are similar (39 v 40).
The other big difference is the price - explorer is ~5k whereas Sub is ~10k.
Availability is also the other issue. If you wanted a SS Sub (as opposed to gold), its unlikely you could just walk into a shop and pick one up. Every boutique and AD I've dealt with have long wait lists. Even if they had stock, very unlikely they will have it out on display for you to try.
You really need to form a relationship with a (or many) boutique or AD in the chance that they will offer you one when they do receive stock. As a guide, the AD that I deal with says he only gets one SubC green every 4-5 months.
Good luck :)
This is a really good website for quality used Rolex watches http://www.bobswatches.com. 100% authentic.
Retain value? Gotta be kidding me. Rolex like any other watch are mass produced, easily replaceable. They do not hold their value, but they may depreciate at a slower rate than other watches. You are still going to lose on the secondary market.
If you are thinking about buying a Rolex for holding value, you shouldn't be buying a Rolex. Buy a Rolex to enjoy it and wear it every day!
On another note, I love my Sub-C. The timeless classic just got better…
Some models hold value better than others.
For example, the SS Daytona (white or black) generally can be sold at close to retail value on the secondary market as demand is greater than supply (trust me - I waited over a year for mine, and this is buying from an AD that I personally know). As a point of reference, a 2nd hand dealer offered a 2006 SS Daytona black for $11,500 (retail is roughly around 12-13k). Funnily enough, the SS versions are more "valued" than the white/yellow gold versions - which is purely a function of demand/supply.
Green bezel / dial SubC is also another "rare" model, again generally holds value quite well.
Of course, if you have some of the extremely rare and sought after models - e.g. "Paul Newman" dial Daytona - then you can basically set whatever price you want.
TLDR: In general many people aspire to own a Rolex, so prices on secondary market is the strongest among most mainstream brands in the price range (IWC, Breitling, Omega, Zenith, etc.)
EDIT: Full disclosure… I own a Daytona (SS Black) and Submariner (green/green)
Hi what model number Daytona are you talking about??
116520 Black … though personally 116509 is my favourite
hey Bargainboi - I turned off PM as <MOD: removed> is now harassing me via private messaging; will answer your PM question here:
I have the Green SubC, ref 116610LV. I bought it just over 12 months ago, and after discount I paid ~$9600 (from memory the MSRP is $10,300). If you're travelling OS then you can claim another 10% for the VAT.
In addition to the other points I mentioned above, note that the Green isn't as versatile as black dial - its a unique colour that may not always match well with what you wear. That's one reason why some prefer the black over the green.
But the green on the dial is very nice to look at - so if you want something different then that would be the one to get
@devpress — I have removed your reference to another user for now. However if you have received harassment in PM, please use TWAM and we'll handle the issues.
If you're worried about retaining value you should be looking at a used Patek instead. The prestige factor is much higher than a Rolex. A used one already has most of the devaluation taken out of it. Another factor to consider when buying a mechanical swiss watch is maintenance. I learnt the hard way with my collection. For 2 watches $1k maintenance bill every 5 years if you actually want them to stay accurate and run smoothly. Forget about repairs. Rolex has restricted supply of parts to small watch makers so some major repairs need to go back to Rolex….can buy a brand new ETA movement watch for some of the repair bills I've heard of. A fine, mechanical, Swiss watch is a long term investment. My next watch will be a quartz.
Personally I've been won over by the Patek Philippe marketing. "You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation."
If I was ever going to buy a high end watch, it would be a Patek Philippe :)
"You merely look after it for the guy who will mug you on the train" is statistically more accurate, I dare say.
ROLEX?!!! IN OZBARGAIN!??
Was looking for this comment, otherwise i was going to post it :P
There are some people for whom Veblen goods are a part of their trade. A real estate agent might wear a Rolex and drive a Porsche, not because he's a knob, although most of them are, but because he understands that he needs to project a certain image.
Haha, does it matter if it's expensive. Of coure everyone knows that, but that exclusivity might be part of the reason someone buys it.
I personally wouldn't bother, but that shouldn't stop someone from spending money in the way they see fit?
Additionally, Rolex has long worked hard to build a reputation for themselves and provide a real value proposition to people. Are you saying Rolex should not capitalise on this and have exclusive prices? Is boycotting Rolex and not getting their products a solutions? etc etc…
(just playing devil's advocate, and opening up ideas/reasons why people spend money the way they do)
Rolex flamewars in Ozbargain - who would have thought?
I really find it hard to understand this comment though. I've seen it on numerous luxury/niche items that have been posted on OzB from time to time. There is this perception that all OzBers are penny-pinching underpaid/stingy povos who would potentially reuse toilet paper if there was a way.
A lot of members just come here to get good/awesome deals on things that interest them. Thus a deal/discussion on Rolexes is perfectly fair on OzB. It may not make much sense to some OzBers who are in the unenviable financial position of being college students or simply not very financially endowed, or are plain f-ing stingy… there are others here that would find great value in certain discussions. :P
E.g. A 7K Omega being discounted to 2-3K would get insanely trolled in the comments section; however, it would still be a great deal and would pique the interest of quite a few OzBers.
Tldr:
Not all OzBers are looking for the cheapest means to spend their lives.@grapedrink - is it so difficult to refrain from personal attacks and bland stereotyping of others?
You are welcome to sign the praises of your $600 atomic watch, and point out your reasons why you think Rolexes or other higher-end brands are not worth its money.
Anyway, the OP was asking if Rolexes maintain its value over time — but its being hijacked by your anti-luxury watch crusade.
Quite a few of your comments are being negged in the discussion trail so perhaps I'm not the only one that is finding your personal comments tiring and unnecessary.
As you say, you are a man who listens to carefully constructed viewpoints, so I'm sure you will understand this and refrain from further personal sniping.
Have a good day.
What about i buy rolexes just because i can and grapedrink can not. that should put some salt in your $600 watch. Your $600 watch when you wear it the first time will half its value, my 1960 rolexes has been appreciating in value from the day i bought them. Sometimes you can not be rich for a reason. rich people does not pay up for nothing, most of the stuff they bought is investment in mind.
Rolex is not overprice compare to your ($600 which are not categorized as luxury by any means) you said rolex are not worth the money simply because you do not have the money nor you will have the required money to buy in the near future. should you have the money to spare you will not say rolex is not worth the money
as for me, i like my rolex collection and it forms part of my investment. When you can get deals worth millions of dollar just because you can advise your client on which rolex you think best and why instead off telling him that rolex is not worth to buy just buy $5 toy, you will think the rolex are paying it self.
Some people will just going on and on and on about whole luxury is mainly for show off etc. it is good, as the few who are actually know and using it to their advantage can work the system and gain technical advantage in business world. For this, i say thank you grapedrink. thank you very much.
You are right, you can wear a fake one, and know, that you're wearing a fake one, or you can wear a real one, and know, you are wearing a real one.
It's with everything, Different brands, attract different people.
I have a Citizen Perpetual myself, but I don't care that it's synchronized to the atomic clock, if its 9.43, 9.44,9.45, 9.46 or 9.47 it's a 1/4 to 10.
Also, a collector will never ask for a Citizen
Btw, to OP, you have to ensure you send them in for regular servicing to keep their lifespan as optimal as possible. If, like you said, you're in it for the value appreciated, if you calculate all the servicing fees and adjust for inflation the value of the dollar over time. You will find that your return is not what you expect.
Especially on expensive watches, you want to make sure you get a reputable watch servicing outfit, not one that just opens it up and spray it with some lube. Also, mechanical ones tend to be more complicated to service as well.
a question
why would you ever get into this hobby unless you were 100% invested in it?
learn all about it, then buy
why would anyone spend $1,000, $5,000 or $10k into something they really didnt know all there is to know about it?
I have an acquaintance that works for hourglass in the city if you wan.
Couple of my friends got rolexs last year. This year they got invited to the tennis open vip tent and met roger Federer and several tennis super stars.
Rolex watches are investments and their value goes up when the range stop selling.
I remember reading somewhere about an investment company that has a storage of expensive watches.
If you can afford it without being in debt, why not?
Hourglass Sydney or Melbourne? Need to hook a bruv up, some of mine Rolex's needed servicing but don't want to pay Rolex Aust money or send them overseas (while it's a fair chunk cheaper, the 5+ weeks wait makes it a logistical nightmare).
How many of you use a watch these days apart from as a signalling mechanism, I gave watches up since mobiles came around.
faster to look at wrist than pull phone out of pocket :)
Indeed. Pulling out those 5" phone from the pocket or purse and then press power button just to check the time, vs. glancing over your wrist.
Quicker to look at the bottom right corner of the screen…..
why did that take me so long to get…..must be time for bed!?!
Use it as an image statement especially when I go out only. Rarely ever wear it though. I keep hitting the keyboard or the table if I wear it while working
One thing is for sure, no smartphone/tablet will ever replace my alarm. I wouldn't trust them if my life depended on it. It's coincidental that this morning was the day I needed it, but the notification was on, yet no sound was on (I checked my settings eerything was on). Ended up sleeping in =/ And, this isn't an uncommon issue when searching it up.
The only advantage I'd give a smartphone/tablet is that they are always accurate while a mechanical/digital clock can slow down or speed up.
I'm definitely a wrist watch person. I prefer looking at my wrist as opposed to pulling out my mobile from my pocket and pressing the power button.
wrist watches are outdated, you're showing your age by wearing one.
any other good websites to buy watches? this topic has sparked a hunger within me to buy a good watch (never thought it existed) .. thinking IWC or Panerai
There's also smartwatches/iWatches to be rolling in soon.. Who knows what incentive those devices could provide us? Although I can understand why you are going for the Rolex.
Reality is watches are very personal and if its a Rolex you want it's a rolex you must have.
They're solid and reliable and you'll almost never lose money.
My tip is buy second hand with box and papers and warranty. You'll save a bit and won't know different.
In terms of Subs, I'd see if you could stretch it to a Sea Dweller old or new. A bit more exclusive and far more interesting.
Most of all enjoy and don't look back. Horology is a fascinating world and providence and history doesn't come much better despite all the valid points made here.
This first sentence is dead on. I have previously thought about purchasing a Rolex. Grapedrink keeps posting above and harassing me in PM about how wonderfully accurate his Citizen watch is, which means nothing when you don't like the design. Citizen just doesn't scream 'I am a wealthy badass' like Rolex does and that's something that a lot of people are willing to pay money for. Accuracy of timekeeping just doesn't come into it honestly and I don't really get why grapedrink keeps arguing that.
I'm sure his Citizen is a brilliant watch. However, a watch is a very personal item. If a watch feels right and you love it's look, then that is the watch you must have (if you can afford it). :)
To me it sounds like grapedrink may really want a Rolex… but his Citizen is not letting him go. :P
I did get a pm as well. -_-
anyway to prevent more?
but on another note, i know materialistic girls judge u based on your watch, attire, cc, wallet blah blah.
Lol. Not sure mate.
I think he's in the penalty box for annoying folks in here.
I reckon by the time I can actually afford a rolex, I'll probably have kids. :) It's not really about impressing the "ladies". There's a lot more inexpensive ways to do that if that's the driver. :)
@hctan — please use TWAM forum to report inappropriate PMs. We are also looking at adding black listing features to PM.
Yeah I got angry PMs as well. That kid seriously has something to prove.
Reality is watches are very personal and if its a Rolex you want it's a rolex you must have.
Could not agree more. Why buy an optional accessory like a watch if you don't like it? If a $2000 Rolex/Omega/Tag does it for you, then go for it. If a freebie you got out of a cereal box tickles your fancy, then more power to you. It's no-one's place to tell you your watch is stupid, and that you're stupid for buying it.
I bought my Daytona new for 13k and can easily get 11k back - not bad depreciation for a thing thats a few years ol and was bought new (good thing Rolex's price on Daytonas is consistent around the world, unlike with their subs etc).
My Omega Speedmaster Pro and Omega Planet Ocean isn't faring as well in the resale department not to mention my IWC 3717 which has fared even worse i'd say.
Hardly any watches will make you money, unless you score a good deal, but that applies to virtually anything.
Sure, there are a few exceptions such as the Paul Newman Daytona but most current submariner and daytona models aren't going to appreciate within this decade.
If you want to lose the least money, the Daytona is definitely the way to go. You'll lose more money with a Submariner, even more with an Explorer II and more again with dress models.
If you go for two-tone watches you'll lose the most since there's very little demand for them (i see why, they're too ugly). You'll also lose a bit if you go for gold models as they're easy to get a hold of and the discounts are much more significant.
And for those that say Patek Philippes don't lose value - wrong, they lose significant value and most models don't hold their value. Of course, if you go for a 1 of 3 limited edition model for $400,000 then maybe you would get that 400k back, depending on the model of course. Not going to apply for 30 Pateks though, sorry.
basically all of them retain value as their marketing percieve them to be the best (far from it) and the second hand market has them in high demand.
older submariners and daytonas hold the best value
check out rolexforums.com