Petition for unauthorized CD key reseller websites to be banned

I'm aware that this topic has been touched upon before, but I feel the need to start the argument again considering the popularity of these deals. Personally I believe that all sites selling Russian keys which are incapable of being activated on platforms such as Steam without the use of third party tools be outright banned from the site.

There are some serious concerns about merchants posting these authorized CD key reselling websites, and people blindly upvoting the deal and downvoting the people who explain the risks, (I highly suspect these sites are using sockpuppets, which wouldn't be out of the question considering the shady nature of what they do) despite the fact there are potential serious drawbacks when they're used: needing to activate through a VPN spoofing your region, UI being in Russian, needing to download an external language pack, DLC being region-locked by publishers, Valve contacting people asking for photographic evidence of the game box, and in some cases publishers removing the game from your library later on and/or Valve banning accounts that have had these keys added to them via VPNs.

These types of sites are already banned on most major gaming deal sites. For example, here's two prominent gaming communities that have already implemented wide bans on these type of sites: Neogaf (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/) and the /r/gamedeals portion of Reddit. (http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedeals)

Here's some views on actual game developers who have had experience with these types of sites:

-BlimBlim, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32558741&postcoun…

Also one thing that's very important to note regarding key bannings. Quite a few sites (no idea if they have been listed here or not) with very good customer ratings and everything actually sell stolen keys. And by stolen I mean "credit card" fraud stolen.
Back at the launch of a game we had the exclusivity on, we were naive enough to disable our fraud screening system, and got hundreds of keys stolen over a period of just a few hours. Just for a test we tried to by a key from one popular bargain priced key sites, and yep it was a key from our batch. The amazing thing is that it had only be a few hours between the fraud and when we tried buying it. It was easy to find since we were the only one in the world who could sell the product for one week.
Of course all these keys have been blacklisted immediately, so it could also be the case with these RU BF3 keys. I don't really know though.<

-Unknown Worlds, http://unknownworlds.com/blog/beware-shady-key-resellers-and…

We deactivated these keys because they keys were purchased with credit cards where the card-holder initiated a “charge-back.” A charge-back is a consumer protection mechanism offered by payment companies such as Visa, allowing a card-holder to dispute a charge on their credit card statement. This means we never received payment for the game. In fact, we were charged a fee by the card issuer for the charge-back. For these 1,341 keys, these fees totalled around $30,000.

We don’t know how exactly these sites obtain their Steam keys. It seems likely that they were originally obtained from our store using stolen credit card information. Keys were then sold through a handful of questionable sites to people using legitimate credit cards. The owner of the stolen credit card ultimately disputed the charge and we lost the sale. In total, we lose ~$45 per transaction of this kind, due to the charge-back fee (~$22 fee + $25 game price). Meanwhile, the unauthorized key reseller kept the money from the player who ultimately received the bad key.<

Comments

  • +1

    Every time something like this gets posted, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to defend these sites as 'perfectly legal'. I think it would be terribly hilarious if all these CD key sites were actually some fairly complex money laundering scheme.

    • +1

      money laundering scheme

      Well, it's pretty damn close… If they are using stolen CC details to purchase, then on-selling the product, you're buying stolen goods, in essence.

      The whole thing certainly screams 'organised crime'. They wouldn't be using a couple CC details, they'd have thousands on record to use.

  • +1

    without the use of third party tools be outright banned from the site.

    Yeah, this is a bad thing since there are security concerns about handing over your hundreds if not thousand dollars worth of games to someone you've never heard of just for a game. However, it's not unheard of to use your own VPN to activate a game (and also changing the password along the way).

    However, if your intention was to get all Russian cd keys banned, I disagree with that opinion. I've bought and activated a fair share of games using these keys and I've been fine. There are lots of cdkey sites out there but there are some which are more reputable than others. I'm sure the users of this site are smart enough to figure out which is which, especially if the store has had a history. No need to censor and baby-sit them.

  • There is an important distinction to be made here:

    • Some CD key vendors may be selling illegally sourced keys and putting the purchaser at risk.

    • CD Key vendors are cons/scams and are illegal.

    The first point is absolutely true, the second is not (necessarily). It is very hard to work out what is legit and what is not. The peer system that OzBargain relies on does this to some degree, I am not sure what further measures would be effective.

    • Actually most cd-key vendors will be getting their keys from dodgy places, its just that they try quite hard to make sure they are legit in some way.

      This is why almost every single cd-key site has been responsible for sending out stolen keys etc, its just something that happens when you are buying cd-keys this cheap from random people on the internet.

      Greenmangaming is an example of a site that only buys from actual suppliers instead of random sellers in Russia etc.

      • Greenman gaming is a great example of my point. What rule system should be in place such that GMG remains allowed but places that might be less honest are not?

        • +1

          As far as I know GMG is an official Steam reseller and has its own DRM system and CDKey resellers arent and dont. Also when all else fails why not ask! Steam that is.

  • I thought they already were banned?

  • Yes we are aware of the risk there purchasing from these CD key sites, especially that the keys can potentially be sourced from illegal means, i.e. stolen credit card. I'm happy to keep the discussions here for us to work out the right approach to those overseas merchants.

    At the moment we are working on the "black listing" approach. We will permanently ban sites and merchants that have sold illegal keys. However there are currently some issues:

    • They are free to post until problem arise
    • Sometimes it can take a few months before your purchased game gets deactivated, and I guess some people can't be bothered to report them back on OzBargain.
    • It's easy for them to re-spawn with a new domain and a new site selling the same things, if their old site gets black listed.

    However, please report issues and we'll work out how widespread the problem is.

  • I think all english sites should be banned simply because you can go to cdkeyprices to find the cheapest price.

    Ozbargain generally don't support people going on staticice.com.au and posting the cheapest product for the same reason.

    The only time I've seen something worth being on ozbargain is the few posts in foreign language cd-key sites that nobody would normally expect to find a bargain at.

  • I reported one a while back to Steam, Microsoft, and Symantec as they were selling their products. Steam replied to me and told me I shouldnt buy from them. Also as far as I can tell the one I reported has never been reposted. There was another one posted at the same time but I didint have time to report it and Im pretty sure it was reposted several times. I was hoping when I reported the first they would look and sort out the rest.

    I dont know if my reporting was the reason they were never reposted but it still saved me from buying an illegal CD Key and loosing money. I asked them if they were an Illegal site and they told me not to buy from them. The post was Gamekeysbuy.com
    The Steam reply was as follows..

    Thank you for contacting Steam Support.
    This is not an authorized re-seller of Steam CD Keys. Please do not complete any purchases with this vendor.
    Only CD Keys included with retail copies or purchased from authorized retailers will be allowed.

    • They will say the same thing for many legitimate sites. They are just covering themselves.

      • They will say the same thing for many legitimate sites

        Example?

        We are coming down to either black list them (allow all to post, but ban the ones that have issues reported), or white list them (do not allow any game cd key reseller other than the known "legitimate" ones like GMG).

        • Perhaps this leaves room for a grey* area where you can post to forums but not as a deal? Personally though I am not 100% comfortable with steam deciding who to allow.

          *Boom-Tish

        • GMG is likely one of them.

          Steam will call nearly everyone an unauthorized reseller.

  • +1

    Can we use this list as a reference. The list was published by Rebellion (Sniper Elite dev) as 'authorized re-sellers for their game's official source of purchasing Steam keys'. That would mean Valve will officially support games which activates in their Steam platform bought from those shops, hence other games sold via these shops is a safe bet as well.

    That list covers quite a bit of re-sellers.

    http://www.epicbundle.com/official-steam-reseller

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936…

  • I feel this topic needs to be reopened based on the amount of recent controversy on third party sellers, specifically G2A and Kinguin. I'm sure most of you are already aware on the aforementioned topic of uPlay and Origin removing keys from their platform (and subsequently reinstating them due to the uproar of keys being removed). G2A and Kinguin have been under scrutiny for the past couple of years in regards to them fraudulently acquiring keys (stolen credit cards) and even taking advantage of extremely cheap sales (numerous bundles) and then reselling for much higher than the price they acquired them for.

    Also, the fact that some of the sellers on these websites sell Steam gifts should automatically ring alarm bells. Selling Steam gifts is against the Steam Subscriber Agreement.

    May I sell gift subscriptions?
    Steam Gift Purchases can not be sold. Attempting to sell a gift subscription is a violation of the Steam Subscriber > Agreement and may result in your account being permanently disabled. You can trade gifts using our new Steam Trading system > and can read more about that here.

    There's also no logical explanation of having to buy a "Protection Shield" on top of your purchase to "prevent" stolen keys being removed.

    I realise it is completely up to the user to assess whether or not a website is legitimate however I feel we should take a stand on these unauthorised sellers. I understand we all want cheap, fair deals, which is completely understandable. Australian's are always getting taken advantage of with pricing and we shouldn't have to take that.

    I propose we either flat out ban the URL of G2A & Kinguin or there to be (if possible) an automated message at the top of a post from those domains stating that their keys are unauthorised and could be removed.

    Here is an interesting article for you to read on the grey market of digital keys.


    Here's a list of authorised sellers (courtesy of Reddit, I'm probably going to repeat what is mentioned in shadowarrior's post).


    Maybe I'm overreacting towards this topic, I just don't want Ozbargain to be trapped in the shady side of the digital gaming world and have to deal with bullshit after their purchase.

    Interested to hear what you guys' think on this topic and what we should do.

    Regards

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