Hi all, wondering why Bunnings, and maybe other stores charge extra for a new AC installation on ground floor.
My house is pretty simple, kitchen AC installation, back to back (1.5m apart), ground floor, small system (3.5kw), power plug is already next to the internal unit.
The house is a 2 storey but there is no need to go to the upper floor.
Is there something I am missing for the extra $170?
Yes.
They couldn't provide an answer. The young female at the special orders said that's her training. She couldn't find anyone at Bunnings that could explain.
I was called by the installer and I said exactly that. I also asked for the reason and he couldn't explain but said he'll ask Bunnings to explain that to me.
I would ask from someone else on a different day! Possibly an old fart lol
If the ac unit needs to be hardwired and on a separate circuit it's a b!tch of a job chasing the power cable on a 2 storey slab house.
The young female
So if was an old fart male it would be different? FFS.
he couldn't explain
Time to get a better installer then.
No, but I would have a bit more confidence if it was someone with a bit more life or sales experience.
Don't worry, the old fart who advised me about the model was clueless as well, but he didn't get the order.
They all receive the same training.
If the ac unit needs to be hardwired and on a separate circuit it's a b!tch of a job chasing the power cable on a 2 storey slab house.
Yep, most fail to understand that the warranty says the AC must be installed on its own circuit. So yeah, chasing a power cable on a 2 story house is crap work. Hence the extra cost.
OP is one of those IMHO.
No, OP is fine. You are just making this a political issue.
@nahi11: Agreed, definitely looked like @MS Paint tried to make it some sort of gender thing… At least it came off that way.
It is a completely legit position to hold. But, the OP was just being descriptive.
@CoreArchitect: The OP wasn't being descriptive at all. OP was/is convinced that their ac install is basic and straightforward. It is not for the reasons mentioned multiple times in this thread.
The OP was calling out the young female because "what would a young female at Bunnings know about AC installs". If they were being descriptive it would have read…
The Bunnings employee at the special orders desk was unsure of the charge difference.
Well this young female knows more than the OP. OP then came here looking for confirmation bias because they are convinced they are right about plugging their new AC into a wall socket. FFS.
@MS Paint: Nope.
I simply asked why and she didn't know why. I was called by the Bunnings contracted company and I asked that bloke as well. He didn't know why either but he said Bunnings will tell me.
I did get a phone call from Bunnings, same person who took the order and she said that she was instructed by the contracted to change the job with no explanation.
I'm not looking for any confirmation. The reason for posting here is because I don't know and I want to understand. I haven't got into any arguments.
I suggest read the comments with an open mind and if you have any comments that are actually adding value to the thread then write them, otherwise refrain from making assumptions and generally being a keyboard warrior. So far you added no value to this thread.
Not if it is under 4kw.
What brand AC you installing?
not true. ask a sparky
@parad0x: An electrician did come around for a quote and said that there's no need for a dedicated line.
Seems like I got a quote from a dodgy sparky.
What state are you in?
Denial
Victoria
Has to go to the roof. What part are you not understanding about this. Any sparky who does otherwise is doing so against code. He cannot certify that the load on the line he taps will not exceed its rating after its installed. It's really bloody simple actually.
About what? Was I in any denial about any of it?
The house is a 2 storey but there is no need to go to the upper floor.
But if theres any need to traverse first floor internal walls or roof areas, either for AC ducting/pipework or power, this is much more time consuming/difficult than a single story where there is roof space access above
Outside wall only, back to back.
Power is next to the AC already.
Power, as in a power point, or power as in a cable that is on a dedicated circuit and breaker?
Powerpoint. Should have specified.
It is under 4Kw. My understanding is that there's no need for dedicated line in the switchboard.
@Ooops: How much power does the heat cycle draw (assuming it's a reverse cycle)?
If the unit doesn't come with a 3 pin plug you will likely find it needs to be hardwired for warranty and safety purposes.
@MS Paint: This is the one: https://www.bunnings.com.au/mitsubishi-heavy-industries-3-5k…
4Kw max.
I actually need to buy it for the heater not for cool. The house is very cool and we rarely turn on the AC for cooling purposes. In the winter though, we wake up in the morning at 10C, sometimes less.
@elgrande: This is confusing because a sparky did come around for a quote before and he said that he doesn't need a dedicated line.
Seems like I got a quote from a dodgy sparky.
On a brick veneer house you can easily access the internal wall by lifting roof tiles. On a double storey that's not going to be so easy. The other option is to run the power in a conduit on the outside of the wall, this will look ugly.
You need to look in the manual to find out if a dedicated circuit and circuit breaker is required to maintain the warranty.
Thanks.
Does it matter? Get the quote they gave you and ring around a few other installers to see how much they charge. Then pick one most appropriate.
Thanks. Good advice.
The Bunnings fee is likely just their generic fee to cover most instances.
OPs situation sounds like less work (?) involved which the Bunnings staff may not know.
At that point, simply get your own electrician to install at cheaper price.
After the electrician spends an hour running a dedicated cable from the fuse box, up a storey, across the roof space and down the other wall I wouldn't be expecting a discount.
Infact, I'd be looking to pay $170 more than a single storey house.
Go to Harvey Norman and get a quote
Will do.
They can't use the existing power socket, that's not how the new units need to be cabled with an extra isolating switch and separate circuit to the main switchboard, $170 sounds very reasonable as its not going to be an easy job to do it the right way on your house.
Thanks. Didn't know this.
Cost me +$100 from my sparky. Installed an inline smart meter at no charge - not that it adds a whole lot of work, but that doesn't actually mean they won't. Probably would have if I told him at quote time not whilst he was fitting off at the board lol
He even went so far as he stuffed up the run and put it over the trusses, pulled every tile, ran it again. I was curious why it sounded like they were kicking tiles twice over lol
That is $900 to run 5.2kw 8m to the board, and $1000 to go from the diagonally furtherest point in the house from the switchboard.
Most charge $100 just to pay their life insurance policy, then additional costs and labour. And there's your $170 because;
It is a requirement under Clause 1.7.1 of the AS/NZS 3000:2007 Wiring Rules that all electrical wiring installations must comply with the manufacturer’s instructions. If an installation does not meet the manufacturer’s instructions, then responsibility will lie with the contractor.
In conclusion, every air conditioner is different and all manufacturers have different requirements for the installation of their products. If none is specified then, the callback is the load on the circuit must be calculated as per the regulations for such.
Then there's Bunnings Service Info page, followed by the terms and conditions
Whats included:
Single storey inclusions:
Double storey inclusions:
TLDR:
There's three issues in play here, and OP is wrong on all counts. Firstly the Bunnings installation service, which is clearly displayed in their documentation.
The only thing Bunnings' installation service accounts for in a 2 floor install is 2m of conduit and 2m of cable to cover the additional distance for the compressor to be at ground level. There's no allocation for the additional worlks required according to the AS3000.
You'll find that every brand specifies installation on an individual circuit.
The underlying theme that remains the same if none of the above is present; The electrician is the trained professional and thus is responsible for the proper installation according to their training and the relevant standards.
Note:
It is possible to install an "electrically safe" sub 2.5kW system without a dedicated circuit, but it remains only code compliant if the manufacturer doesn't have any installation requirements, but the amount of additional labour that would be required to trace the line in order to calculate whether it can happen or not would well exceed simply paying for an individual circuit. But that is not applicable here, and most sparkys wouldn't even consider the option because it's easier for everyone.
There's three issues in play here, and OP is wrong on all counts.
Where am I wrong?
I came here and asked a question to understand the issue/extra charge because I wasn't given one by Bunnings or their contractor.
Username checks out.
That's not what I came to answer, but feel free to make another post with your queries and I'm sure you will have plenty of input.
For me however, it would really take more time than I care to give, and a non-PG-rated forum on which to provide it.
I didn't post here to satisfy you, your desires expectations or continue to point out the obvious. I chose to post for anyone but you - and you most certainly did not ask with that intent. I think you made that clear to anyone who may have been in doubt to begin with.
I came for the same reason 90% of my posts in the forums - to provide the correct information to those who chose to accept it over the Medusa of alternate responses which are nothing more than opinions being validated with opinions.
I wonder if Einstein ever considered Special Relativity could be applied to the consciousness, both on a philosophical topic of endless discussion or directly into reality itself. Maybe then we'd understand the total oblivion that exists in some and not others, as well as we do the fundamental magnitude within matter itself.
But hey, let me help you. The issue is you, the extra charge is clear by this stage. Now if that truly we're why you came, you'd moved on when you were provided with such. Thus another trip around the infinite loop of your intent, and my final lap.
Good luck with your inflated price AC & installation. You know there's good reason behind why you got a nufty who couldn't explain his own quote right? That's no one's fault but your own. None of this post needed to exist because of you and your inability to grasp the concept of a dollar, whilst demanding that you need cents.
Who, if not one who has nought clue nor care to that which surrounds them, comes to this place to post with your grievances, a place whose very name, existence and ethos is the antithesis of your inconceivable injustice against you?
Anti-parad0x, through and through - done and dusted for the day and it's not even noon, signing off.
@parad0x: Yah nah.
But hey, let me help you. The issue is you, the extra charge is clear by this stage. Now if that truly we're why you came, you'd moved on when you were provided with such. Thus another trip around the infinite loop of your intent, and my final lap.
I understood why the extra charge, from some of the comments above. I did thank them and I moved on.
I came for the same reason 90% of my posts in the forums - to provide the correct information to those who chose to accept it over the Medusa of alternate responses which are nothing more than opinions being validated with opinions.
Classic keyboard warrior.
I wonder if Einstein ever considered Special Relativity could be applied to the consciousness, both on a philosophical topic of endless discussion or directly into reality itself. Maybe then we'd understand the total oblivion that exists in some and not others, as well as we do the fundamental magnitude within matter itself.
If consciousness is the primary reality, the light and obviously the observer will exist within and travel through the observer’s consciousness. The speed of light is constant no matter how fast we are moving because the screen of our consciousness is moving with us, so everything we see is relative to us, not relative to the background. AKA, If space-time reality was fundamental, absolute and objectively existent, the speed of light would be relative to the objective background of space, but it isn’t. The speed of light is relative to the subjective observer, which means consciousness is more fundamental than space, time, matter and objects.
Did you ask Bunnings?