First PC build - VBIOS/UEFI/CSM/MBR/IGD/PEG issues

QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:28

Tinkered with computer hardware/software for years, but never actually built one from scratch…Unsure of exactly how to remedy this issue without wasting days/weeks on it:

Just replaced hardware on my old 2011 media PC/plex server with MSI PRO B760M-A and i5-12400.

Planning to use the intel CPU iGPU for HDMI output on Motherboard.

Hooked up my old Windows 10 SSD which is MBR – the Windows licence key originated form a Windows 7 retail disc I bought back in 2011 when rig was built new.

With this combo, the PC wont boot windows, and goes straight to BIOS.

Changing to CSM I get “No VBIOS Support detected in this card” message, reverts to UEFI and again the PC wont boot windows, and goes straight to BIOS.

I put my old GPU in – and ancient Radeon HD5450. This boots/displays via GPU HDMI if I change BIOS settings to CSM and toggle IGD to PEG.

Any other combo the PC appears to boot, but no video output – which is obviously useless.

Alongside this, I will need to upgrade to Windows 11 before Windows 10 end of life in October – and I don’t want to fork out for new licence when I think I can just use my existing one?

Wondering best, quickest solution which may involve:

  • New Windows 11 installation from scratch on NVMe (how to utilise Windows 10 key?)
  • Clone old SSD to NVMe and Convert MBR to GPT - then upgrade to Windows 11 via Windows Update
  • A better way from those who know more than I do!

Kind of scared I will get a scenario where the system boots but no video output as above…

Poking around the web, I don’t have confidence in any solutions – which is why I am once again asking the wise heads around here…

Thanks & have a great day!

Computing Computer Desktop Computer

Comments

  • jv on 23/01/2025 - 13:30
    -5

    I will need to upgrade to Windows 11 before Windows 10 end of life in October

    Why?

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:35

      because end of life means no security updates/patches

      • jv on 23/01/2025 - 13:36
        -2

        It will still work fine… Just like earlier versions of windows still work fine…

  • jv on 23/01/2025 - 13:31
    -1

    I don’t want to fork out for new licence when I think I can just use my existing one?

    You most likely can't use the existing one. It will only activate on the original device.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:37

      this is what i am asking - as i outlined it is a retail licence , not a commercial one tied to the BIOS i believe.

      also, if i upgrade via windows update it should be ok?

  • jv on 23/01/2025 - 13:32
    +1

    Why don't you try a clean install of Windows 11 on the new PC ?

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:38

      yes, I have included that as an option but I do prefer to keep all my apps/settings and plex artwork etc

  • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 13:38
    +1

    New Windows 11 installation from scratch on NVMe (how to utilise Windows 10 key?)

    Any Windows 7 - 10 product keys should activate an equivalent edition Windows 11 installation.

    Clone old SSD to NVMe and Convert MBR to GPT - then upgrade to Windows 11 via Windows Update

    For best performance, I wouldn't bother as it sounds like that original image on your SSD is ancient and really needs to be reimaged anyway.

    Just do a fresh install of the OS.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:39

      yes, agreed, but but I do prefer to keep all my apps/settings and plex artwork etc

      and it has worked flawlessly for years…

      • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 13:41
        +1

        It will likely just cause you weird issues trying to re-use that image, even if you manage to boot into Windows successfully (driver issues, BSODs, etc).

        You've got an ancient PC that isn't as tolerant of these kinds of hardware changes as more modern PCs are to begin with.

        but but I do prefer to keep all my apps/settings and plex artwork etc

        So back up the user profile/application data and copy it onto the new image? Shouldn't be that hard.

        • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 13:43

          not sure what that means…thanks a lot for taking the time to reply!

          • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 13:46

            @QuickToThePointless: Pretty much everything the average user needs to back up when you're reinstalling Windows (as in application settings/preferences, Windows customisation/personalisation and user profile data) is located under C:\Users\YourAccountName.

            You copy that whole folder onto an external HDD/flash drive before reinstalling Windows and then you copy whatever you require from your old user profile into the new user profile in your new Windows install.

            Maybe do some Googling on how to reinstall Windows before you attempt this as you may not be as tech-savvy as I originally assumed (no offence).

            • JustinFR on 23/01/2025 - 13:48

              @Miami Mall Alien: He will lose all apps by transferring the User Profile - he wants to keep them.

              • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 13:49

                @JustinFR: Yeah, so you reinstall all of the applications first in your new Windows image and then you copy over your old user profile data. Pretty standard Windows reimaging stuff.

                On second thought, I think the OP should just take it to a local PC repair shop and have them do it all for him.

                • JustinFR on 23/01/2025 - 13:51

                  @Miami Mall Alien: That isn't imaging, that is just a Win reload, re-install of applications, and data transfer. Imaging is cloning your drive to another.

                  • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 14:00

                    @JustinFR: It's still imaging, just more manual and less automated compared to using something like CloneZilla which is going to be way above the OP's pay grade here. Whatever you call it, it's a damned sight better than trying to re-use a probably 10 year old Windows image with a different mobo and CPU. That's just a recipe for disaster.

                    Imaging is cloning your drive to another.

                    Cloning is just that: cloning. Imaging more strictly speaking is overwriting an existing OS image on a disk with an entirely different, usually customised one that doesn't contain any legacy stuff from a previous one.

            • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:14

              @Miami Mall Alien: thanks, no offence taken…have installed/resinstalled/cloned windows heaps of times over the years so am reasonably confident.

              • Miami Mall Alien on 23/01/2025 - 14:19

                @QuickToThePointless: All good. You should be able to easily reimage the SSD then. Just do the usual procedure of: backup user profile (plus any other relevant data) from the current image, reinstall Windows, reinstall drivers, reinstall applications and then copy your old user profile data (or whatever you need from it). Your existing Windows 10 product key will definitely activate a Windows 11 install as I've done that countless times myself.

  • pscac001 on 23/01/2025 - 13:52

    I would recommend a clean install of Windows, and if I were going to have to support it that is the only option I would use. But if you want to experiment, at the risk of quirky issues, then I believe that cloning the SSD to the NVME then installing Win11 from USB fill allow you to "upgrade" your existing installation even though the original instance isn't booting. It's actually less of an upgrade and more reinstalling and importing some of the old settings.

    It's by no means guaranteed to work, but there is a reasonable chance you will end up with a mostly clean-ish Win11 install with most of your settings and data intact.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:12

      thanks for reply - if i did clone it to NVMe it would still be MBR though?

      • pscac001 on 23/01/2025 - 16:19

        What I was getting at is that the install and the importing of old settings are separate processes, so you could use whatever partition format you want on the NVMe and just copy the files across (just make sure you leave enough room for the boot partitions).

  • JustinFR on 23/01/2025 - 13:59

    "Planning to use the intel CPU iGPU for HDMI output on Motherboard." Do you need to use the integrated graphics or could you install a low cost graphics card. I recently faced the same issue with the "VBIOS not detected" and just installed a GPU for the customer who wants to boot off his old SSD.
    Also, you cannot convert MBR to GPT without wiping all volumes so you'll lose all data. The change from MBR to GPT has caused a decent amount of headache for a lot of people.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:10

      thanks for reply…converting MBR to GPT is made out tp be pretty simple in guides like here - am i missing something?

      Was planning to keep it simple and just use 12400 IGU but to solve VBIOS issue I put my old GPU in – an ancient Radeon HD5450. This boots/displays via GPU HDMI if I change BIOS settings to CSM and toggle IGD to PEG.

      • JustinFR on 23/01/2025 - 14:17

        Oh that's a nice tool, hopefully it works, haven't used it before. Let me know if you do use it and how it goes.

        Yeh, I didn't spend too much time tinkering, but maybe need to bite the bullet and grab a cheap GT710 or something and chuck it in.

        • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:28

          GT710 is barely newer than my ancient Radeon HD5450?

          plan to use 12400 IGPU for 4K output and plex transcoding effiiciency…cheers

  • freefall101 on 23/01/2025 - 14:34

    With this combo, the PC wont boot windows, and goes straight to BIOS.

    Have you setup a boot device in the bios? That's usually the reason it goes straight to bios, it has nothing to boot from.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:37

      yep, thanks, think the issue lies with a combo of newer gen inability to boot MBR partitions with out legacy/CSM settings, but iGPU wont output legacy video/needs to be UEFI.. or something like that???…does my head in lol

      • ytthr on 23/01/2025 - 14:52

        Have you tried Sysprep?

        • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:57

          never heard of it….have cloned HDD to SSD half a dozen times over the years, never knew it was a thing?

  • Transient on 23/01/2025 - 14:40

    I've been upgrading my desktop for years now. Went from i5 4690 to 8400 then to 12400. MBO upgrades to fit the CPU too.

    I remember changing from MBR to GPT a few years ago. From memory there were a number of ways to do it. I think I ended up using this method Remember to back up the drive before you try it in case something goes wrong.

    From memory I also tried formatting a new drive as GPT then cloning the old MBR drive to it but it also made the new drive MBR so that did not work!

    What MBO brand did you have before? Also MSI? Did you download all the required drivers? I stayed with ASUS MBOs but still needed to update all the drivers.

    Edit: Be careful which way you use to change from MBR to GPT as some ways wipe data and some do not.
    Also, are you saying it boots fine with a graphics card but not without one?

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 14:53

      thanks for reply…very helpful insights…

      I think that MBR/GPT method looks the same way as this one i found

      old mobo was asus

      Also, are you saying it boots fine with a graphics card but not without one?

      it will boot with BIOS settings toggled for CSM/legacy mode AND graphics set to PEG with old GPU.

      If set to UEFI and iGPU, it throws up the VBIOS warning

      • Transient on 23/01/2025 - 15:10

        I could be wrong but I think MBR and legacy go together while UEFI goes with GPT

        Which is why I had to change my old boot drive with Win 10 from MBR to GPT so I could use UEFI and also to upgrade from Win 10 to 11. The alternative would be to do a clean install of Windows which I also preferred not to do.

        Googling further, is this your problem?
        You need to convert your boot drive from MBR to GPT so it can be booted from the BIOS in UEFI mode, also see here. Do not set CSM mode, 12th gen CPU's iGPU doesn't have a VBIOS anymore, so they will only work in UEFI mode. You have to leave it in UEFI mode, and you have to convert the boot drive to make it work.

        • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 15:11

          thanks so much for your replies mate…this is the conclusion i reached, but as i say in OP, i havent got a great deal of confidence as the the BEST way to go about it…

          • Transient on 23/01/2025 - 15:28

            @QuickToThePointless: No probs. For me, I deliberated a couple of days and not finding another solution I liked, I cloned the system partition from HDD to SSD then converted to GPT via the exe command.

            Note YMMV. The drive needs to satisfy the prerequisites before it will work. There may still be bugs after you have done it.

            Good luck!

          • Transient on 23/01/2025 - 15:33

            @QuickToThePointless: Also, as you are changing MBOs you probably need to reactivate Win 10 to say it is the same computer but you just upgraded some hardware

  • GordonD on 23/01/2025 - 14:57

    Loophole closed, says Microsoft. Windows 7 & 8 keys no longer activate Windows 11. Only Windows 10 and 11 keys now work.

    Me, I just use unactivated Windows 10, and Tiny11 which doesn't require activation.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 15:05

      oh really? what if I change MBR to GPT, then boot via UEFI, then wont the Settings>Windows Update prompt me with a Windows 11 upgrade?

      • GordonD on 23/01/2025 - 15:13

        I have no knowledge beyond what Microsoft told The Verge. That the answer is now "no". Or at least it might try to get you to update, but it won't activate with your Windows 7 key.

  • arms on 23/01/2025 - 14:58
    +2

    'massgrave', for if/when your Windows license doesn't stick for whatever reason.

    • QuickToThePointless on 23/01/2025 - 15:02

      yep, use that for office suite…but atm all my windows licences are legit

    • AustriaBargain on 23/01/2025 - 16:08

      Apparently this is how Microsoft techs do it too.

  • Gregmond on 23/01/2025 - 16:55

    If your SSD is less than 2TB, then MBR should work. GPT is required for greater than 2TB, and recommended for less, but not required.
    UEFI should be fine.
    I think it's more likely, you need to change the NVME / RAID setting in your BIOS. Whichever it is set to, change it.

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