Are You Concerned about Microplastics from Espresso Machines?

ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 06:44
Last edited 25/11/2024 - 07:08

I recently started thinking, our morning coffees seem to be exposed to a lot of plastic in the brewing process, including the plastic water reservoir, the tubes that carry the water (even after it's heated to a very high temperature), and even the portafilter has a big slab of plastic that the espresso falls onto before it falls into your cup/glass. Apparently the plastic in the portafilter is intended to prevent your espresso from cooling down too much.

I guess there is also the concern that most plastics also contain various additives, which can leach out into liquids.

From what I've seen, the only thing that can be done to reduce this plastic exposure in a standard espresso machine (e.g. Breville/Delonghi) is to remove the piece of plastic from the portafilter. But it is the rest of the components that concern me.

In this age where we are exposed to microplastics from so many different sources and studies are finding microplastics in people's brains and heart tissue, as well as identifying potential health issues associated with microplastics exposure, do you think it is safe to be having 2 or 3 coffees per day from a plastic espresso machine for the rest of your life?

Poll Options

  • 233
    No, I've never thought about it.
  • 17
    No, there is no risk.
  • 29
    No, there may be risk, but I'm not concerned.
  • 3
    No, I accept the risk.
  • 7
    Yes, there is a risk, but I'm going to die young anyway, I may as well enjoy myself.
  • 9
    Yes, I'm concerned about the risk, but I can't give up my morning cappuccino.
  • 27
    Yes, I have switched to a different type of brewing process (e.g. drip, pour over, French press).
  • 21
    Yes, I'm paranoid about microplastics, and I try to limit my exposure in whatever way possible.
Food & Grocery Coffee Machine

Comments

  • BillyStm on 25/11/2024 - 06:53
    +23

    I think the world would be unsafe if we all stopped our morning coffee intake…

    • neoleo on 25/11/2024 - 06:56
      -3

      Drink in moderation is good for health, but not more than 4 cups a day in the news.

      • TheRealCher on 25/11/2024 - 10:35
        +2

        less than 2 and blood in the streets

        • altomic on 25/11/2024 - 11:52
          +2

          more than 6 , shit would get done!!! (both work copmpleted and bowel movements)

          • TheRealCher on 25/11/2024 - 12:03
            +2

            @altomic: See bowel cancer rates are low for people who drink coffee … Maybe it flushes out the micros?

      • imurgod on 27/11/2024 - 16:44

        Unless you're Italian.

        Minimum legal amount is 10 cups per day.

        • neoleo on 27/11/2024 - 16:54

          I read news. Previously it's 4 cups a day recommended as the max daily limit. Ten cups is overdose …

    • Ahoon on 26/11/2024 - 13:17

      I think it is the opposite. Throughout history, coffee has often been banned precisely because of its potential to inspire social change and bring people together.

      Interestingly, there's also a strong correlation between periods of global unrest and peak coffee prices.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 27/11/2024 - 22:12

        Well I have one thing to say about that which I learned from my statistics class at uni … "correlation does not imply causation".

        Did it not occur to you that peak coffee prices correlate with peak prices in general because it would be measured against relative income of the day… i.e. the economy has tanked and people are poor when you look at their buying power against key measures such as what a basket of goods costs (which includes things like coffee) - so it is in fact far more likely people being poor and unable to afford things that leads to social change and unrest and not specifically to do with their coffee intake or lack thereof?

        • Ahoon on 28/11/2024 - 10:25

          I totally agree what you’re saying about correlation and causation. It’s a classic statistical pitfall.

          That said, I think coffee is a unique case compared to essentials like wheat or milk. It’s not a staple for survival, yet its pricing often peaks in different ways during economic downturns. Essentials don’t always follow the same trend.

          Of course, global unrest arises from countless factors, but coffee’s role in promoting radical thinking isn’t just speculative, it’s been noted by historical leaders not only once but many times, banning it with harsh penalties. Maybe they saw something disruptive in its influence. Personally, I agree with them, if everyone consumed straight black coffee daily, we might be looking at more social upheaval, it really gets people wired, both mentally and socially.

          It’s also interesting how coffee has been globally adopted as the go-to office drink, while other drinks haven’t. This is especially significant because workplaces are where radical thinking is crucial to enhance productivity and improve decision-making.

          Have a look at current market, coffee prices are hitting new highs while this is not the case for other commodities.

  • neoleo on 25/11/2024 - 06:55
    +8

    Donate your blood plasma as often as possible if you are ok like every 2 weeks or once a month up to you. It can reduce the amount of micro plastics in the blood. Someone put the research link about it in Ozb previously.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 25/11/2024 - 10:12
      -1

      So all the micro plastic and associated chemicals go into the sick & injured…..

      • Aureus on 25/11/2024 - 14:19
        +17

        If you need a blood transfusion you probably shouldn't be too picky.

        • capslock janitor on 02/12/2024 - 16:57
          +1

          guess bloodletting is making a comeback too

      • neoleo on 25/11/2024 - 23:30
        +1

        "plasma transfusions are a widely-used treatment among critically-ill patients suffering from liver failure, serious burns, and severe infections. Patients who receive plasma protein therapies like clotting factors and intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIg) will also need to rely on your donation, considering that plasma cannot be produced synthetically.

        Plasma is also an essential component in many life-saving medicines today. Doctors prescribe plasma-derived medication in order to treat approximately 100 different diseases through replacement therapy, the correction of a protein imbalance, or continuous supplementation.

        Regardless of how regularly you donate, a small donation of plasma can make a massive impact in the lives of the patients that receive medication derived from your plasma."
        https://aboplasma.com/benefits-of-donating-plasma/

        Benefits if you donate your blood plasma:
        "Donating plasma has a positive effect on the body: it helps to prevent stroke, heart attack, and other heart diseases, cleanses the blood of bad cholesterol, reduces the risk of blood clots, normalizes blood pressure, and minimizes seasonal allergies."
        https://biopharmaplasma.ua/en/navishcho-zdavati-plazmu#:~:te….

        "When you’re donating plasma, your body releases endorphins, which can improve your mood and lower your stress. This explains why some people who donate feel less anxious after their session has been completed.

        Donating plasma has direct benefits on your cholesterol levels. Studies have shown that the collection process for plasma can clean the blood, which helps regulate cholesterol in the blood and decrease your risk of heart disease."
        https://aboplasma.com/benefits-of-donating-plasma/

      • OzBarAnon on 26/11/2024 - 13:42
        +2

        If they're in dire need of plasma/blood, I think they have more immediate concerns over the long-term effects of microplastics

        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 26/11/2024 - 17:00

          I going to have to put /s after some of these posts.

    • capslock janitor on 27/11/2024 - 12:52

      I could not find that link you mentioned from OZB but would like to see it

    • Save Medicare on 27/11/2024 - 17:35

      Tbh i don't know about getting giant 12-14g hoses plugged into my veins. I don't know if there's a RCT or meta-analysis but that kind of vascular trauma can't be good in the long term when you are old and sick and the intern's tried 7 times. If they were able to do blood donation via a standard 20g cannula I think more people would be keen

  • iridiumstem on 25/11/2024 - 07:08
    +25

    I might sound slightly cynical, but I feel like amount of microplastic we are exposed already would be so massive that espresso machines would not make a huge difference. At least that's what I would be telling myself when I have coffee.

    • soan papdi on 25/11/2024 - 07:52
      +2

      yeah, too late already

      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/20/…

      Microplastics have been found in human testicles, with researchers saying the discovery might be linked to declining sperm counts in men.
      The scientists tested 23 human testes, as well as 47 testes from pet dogs. They found microplastic pollution in every sample.

      • iridiumstem on 25/11/2024 - 07:54
        +4

        I wonder whether microplastics would become like, the amber resin in the Jurassic Park in a really distant future.

        I am more worried about the fact that microplastics are able to go past blood brain barrier to be honest.

      • ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 07:56
        +2

        Great, my balls are now 1% plastic. I wonder what the % will be in 30 years.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 25/11/2024 - 10:16
        +1

        Being master of your domain is obviously going to lead to a toxic build up.

      • serpserpserp on 27/11/2024 - 13:21

        The amount of straight up plastics that dogs consume I wonder if the plastics count was higher in those testes or not

      • dbnewman89 on 27/11/2024 - 22:32

        Sign me up! Anything to prevent breeding haha

    • Nickels n Dimes on 25/11/2024 - 20:33
      +3

      There was a recent documentary on microplastics ingestion, the amound depends on how much you take of the different sources, but some sources are higher risk than others:

      1. bottled water purchased in plastic bottles, then left exposed to high UV/heat of the sun for a day or so
      2. bottled water purchased in plastic bottles
      3. sugar and salt, the most common kitchen condiments hide a considerable amount of micro-plastics in them which may make their way into the food items by way of plastic packaging or storage in plastic containers
      4. acidic liquids, ie. soft drinks in plastic bottles
      5. tea bags are one of the major culprits that could be exposing the human body to microplastics
      6. seafood
      7. food that is reheated (eg. microwaved) in plastic containers, including 'ready meals'

      Less than those, but still a common source, coffee that roasted and then rapidly packed in plastic pods, which are used to make the beverage, whilst coffee flowing momentarily through the plastic parts of an espresso machine is less risky.

      • Binchicken22 on 25/11/2024 - 23:06
        +3

        Where's the doco? Netflix, YouTube?

  • soan papdi on 25/11/2024 - 07:54
    +1

    do you think it is safe to be having 2 or 3 coffees per day from a plastic espresso machine for the rest of your life?

    You're trading health for convenience. Can always go back to the old way of a metal coffee pot or percolator.

  • mrdean on 25/11/2024 - 08:03
    +5

    One solution is to gradually stop the production of plastics from petrochemicals & scale up the use of hemp to replace it all.

    There's many very good reasons why the hemp/cannabis plant has been restricted & it mainly has to do with vested interests.

    The other solution is to look to inventors who have created ways (through the breeding of bacteria) to "eat" certain types of plastics. It has been done, but not adopted, again mainly because of vested interests.

    • dtc on 25/11/2024 - 09:33

      hemp doesnt work for coffee machines…

      • TheRealCher on 25/11/2024 - 10:37

        Opening soon at a Westfield near you: The Bud & The Bean…

        Enjoy our mellow brew…
        Don't harsh our vibe by asking for decaf…

        • freekay on 26/11/2024 - 10:53

          May I steal your idea please?

          • TheRealCher on 27/11/2024 - 13:51

            @freekay: yo man, ideas aren't property, you can't steal them, you can't own them, you can just be part of them like the espresso flows through you, you dig?

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 25/11/2024 - 10:18
      +1

      There's many very good 420 reasons why the hemp/cannabis plant has been restricted & it mainly has to do with vested interests.

      • Jackson on 25/11/2024 - 20:20
        +4

        I got 99 problems and hemp in my testies ain't one

    • CommuterPolluter on 25/11/2024 - 21:54
      +1

      One solution is to gradually stop the production of plastics from petrochemicals & scale up the use of hemp to replace it all.

      If biopolymers didn’t suck they’d produce microplastics too.

    • soan papdi on 26/11/2024 - 09:30

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonali_Bag

      The Sonali Bag, also known as the Golden Bag, Jute Polymer, or Eco-friendly Poly Bag (in Bengali: সোনালী ব্যাগ), is a bag made of a biodegradable bioplastic. It was created in Bangladesh as a sustainable alternative to traditional plastic bags by scientist Mubarak Ahmad Khan. The primary ingredient in the Sonali Bag is cellulose, derived from jute, a globally cultivated vegetable fiber crop

      • mrdean on 26/11/2024 - 11:57

        Depends on how complex the process is, what chemicals/solvents etc are used in it, & what if any byproducts are created in the process of making the Golden Bag.

  • theHMASfriendship on 25/11/2024 - 08:29
    +5

    I am worried about the inevitable heat death of the universe

  • boomramada on 25/11/2024 - 08:31
    +1

    OP do you worry about microplastic when you order takeaway with the takeaway containers as well? how about drink bottles?

  • Dollar General on 25/11/2024 - 08:39
    +3

    Plenty of people at the gym I go to have macro plastic in their bodies

    • altomic on 25/11/2024 - 11:53

      are silicone implants considered plastic ?

  • sheikyerbouti on 25/11/2024 - 08:39
    +7

    the portafilter has a big slab of plastic that the espresso falls onto before it falls into your cup/glass.

    What are you talking about?

    Do you have a cheap shitty machine? There's nothing but solid brass in my portafilter and a stainless steel basket. All the water tubes are silicone and food-safe rated from the tank to the boilers, and from there the water is all in brass piping.

    • ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 09:14
      +1

      All the portafilters that come with Breville, Delonghi, Sunbeam machines have a slab of plastic under the basket. Try lifting it out (if you can). If you don't believe me, google it or YouTube it.

      All the water tubes are silicone and food-safe rated from the tank to the boilers, and from there the water is all in brass piping.

      Are you sure there are no plastic tubes?

      *food-safe rating has nothing to do with microplastics. Understanding of microplastic exposure is a developing science, and what we know today is completely different from 10 or 20 years ago when all those food-safe ratings were developed. Plus our exposure to microplastics has been growing, decade by decade and we still don't know the long-term risks of this.

      • sheikyerbouti on 25/11/2024 - 13:13

        Try lifting it out (if you can).

        I can't, because there isn't one. I take out the stainless steel basket and the portafilters are solid brass. My machines are ECM and Izzo brand, not low-end Sunbeams etc.

        Most of the tubes are brass but the flexible pickup hose from the pump to the tank is silicone.

        • ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 14:01
          +2

          Ok, well judging by the posts on here, the majority of ozbargainers tend to purchase Breville or other low-mid cost machines, which do have plastic in the portafilters.

      • Vent89 on 25/11/2024 - 18:47
        +2

        Breville dual boiler and oracle dont have any plastic in the portafilter.

        • Drj55 on 25/11/2024 - 23:22

          Thank you so I don't have to look

        • Snoozer on 26/11/2024 - 10:14

          Yep, it's only the budget models have this I'm guessing.

      • SanguinarySeraph on 26/11/2024 - 13:27

        Only true of the entry level models. The BDB (an OZB favorite since you mention it) and any others that share the standard 58mm Portafilter, absolutely do NOT have plastic on the portafilter anywhere but the handle. You can also buy 3rd party portafilters with wood/metal - I have a wooden handled, bottomless for my BDB which has zero plastic.

        Internal piping is a bit tougher, but you could certainly minimise exposure by something like a La Marzocco Linea Mini which is almost exclusively brass internals, and plumb it in so no sitting reservoir. That would however be quite expensive.

        At the end of the day, cheaper commodity items cutting corners on manufacture isn't exactly new, microplastic concerns aside.

  • 2jzzzz on 25/11/2024 - 08:53
    +2

    Maybe use a stovetop turkish coffee setup?

    • valuer on 26/11/2024 - 11:58

      Or Italian. But, yes, there are many other ways to make coffee and anyone concerned for their health and/or the environment should be using one of them.

  • freefall101 on 25/11/2024 - 08:58
    +3

    The microplastics in take away cups would be way worse than an espresso machine.

    It's in basically everything, all we can do is limit it. I threw out all my plastic utensils and such but it's already in our drinking water, so everyone alive now just has to deal with it (like how most of the decrease in crime the past few decades can be attributed to removing lead from everything, particularly fuel).

    • netjock on 25/11/2024 - 09:29

      most of the decrease in crime the past few decades can be attributed to removing lead from everything

      It isn't bitcoin?

      Maybe the internet and porn?

      • Protractor on 25/11/2024 - 15:08

        ..and increasing the dosage of fluoride in water…..

        • netjock on 25/11/2024 - 15:44

          4G

          • Protractor on 25/11/2024 - 16:09

            @netjock: I'll see your 4G, add 4GX and raise you a further 5G.

    • Ozbar Gain on 25/11/2024 - 12:55

      Crime as decreased??

      • miicah on 25/11/2024 - 13:35
        +1

        Yes, crime being more prevalent in your local area doesn't change the fact that there is far less crime overall.

      • freefall101 on 25/11/2024 - 13:45
        +3

        Most violent crimes are down significantly from the early 2000s. We finally phased out lead in fuel in 2002.

        The increase in sexual assault is likely an improvement in reporting than it is an actual increase in the crime.

        It's not a proven fact either, it's just a hypothesis, but it's one that makes some sense. The older of us (me included) are definitely dumber as a result of leaded fuel. We have microplastics and social media to hold back the current generation of kids instead though, it seems.

        • serpserpserp on 27/11/2024 - 13:23

          Why did lead increase crime?

  • cheese-crackers on 25/11/2024 - 09:39
    +3

    I'd be far more concerned about capsule machines and disposable coffee cups to be honest. There's only so much you can do though. Even using a water filter, a french press, and ceramic/glass cup you're still ingesting the microplastics that make it past the water filter. Not to mention the potential heavy metals and mycotoxins from your coffee beans. Just do what you can within reason.

    • Ozbar Gain on 25/11/2024 - 12:57

      Why would you be more concerned about capsule machines?

      • cheese-crackers on 25/11/2024 - 15:10

        A fair amount of the machines are made primarily of plastic, and depending on the system the capsule may also be or contain plastic. I get the attraction though - when I switched to French press the extra time to boil water and let it brew drove me nuts.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 25/11/2024 - 09:52
    +4

    I think we're at a point where the majority of microplastics we're ingesting are already in the environment prior to our involvement. There's already more microplastics in the water coming out of the tap than your coffee machine is going to add.

  • Wiadro on 25/11/2024 - 10:01

    who cares you only live once

  • Matrix Attack on 25/11/2024 - 10:08
    -3

    I try to minimise the amount of microplastics I consume because the body might not be able to remove all of it.

    I had to stop using water filters as they leak microplastics and chemicals into the water and go the distillation route instead. The guys on the firewater reddit helped me out a lot.

    It all comes down to how much money you have. If you are a multimillionaire, why drink microplastics? You need to pay for organic as well if you don't want stuff grown with biosolids… (i.e. pfas risks with biosolids and other pathogenic viruses and bacteria…)

    It's a pretty shit deal that the government has put society in because if you are poor, you are screwed. The government regulates, but they do it all wrong. Just take a look at what happened in China and the whole cooking oil scandal transferred in oil tankers… I mean wtf, we aren't there in Australia yet but we are getting pretty close, especially with the sydney water coverup on pfas.

    There is also the whole fluoride debate too, luckily we have an independent judiciary otherwise I'd be going mad. It's the only thing we have that stops a corrupt government like Australia. Remember unlike a policeman, the judge doesn't need to side with the government; solicitors and barristers only have a duty to the court. That's not a duty to the government. I suffered skeletal fluorosis because of the negligence of the Australian government.

    • Protractor on 25/11/2024 - 11:06

      Don't pin your hopes on Kennedy or our High Court banning fluoride,dude.
      And you'd be naive to think ALL the food YOU consume is safe. (Safe to the levels you seem to demand)
      Organic isn't as organic as you think. Humans cheat and take shortcuts.That's how capitalism works.
      There aint no real organic cop on the beat. Being 'certified' is mere wordage.

      Cover ups literally keep the wheels turning,bruh.

  • Protractor on 25/11/2024 - 11:00
    +1

    We breathe just as much plastic in as we drink.And worse.

    "You're soaking in it"

  • Parentheses on 25/11/2024 - 11:52
    +10

    This is like trying to save the oceans by banning plastic straws - it's an almost entirely useless gesture that causes maximum inconvenience for minimum benefit.

    The two most significant sources of microplastics (by an ungodly margin) are tyres, and synthetic fibres. Those 2 sources alone contribute more than 2/3 of the microplastics that make it into humans. And it leads to an unfortunate conclusion

    If there are negative health consequences, we're boned.

    This isn't like asbestos, manufactured stone, radium, etc., which mostly impacted people in an industrial setting. It's more like lead fuel, and the old London smog, which were utterly pervasive, yet utterly necessary for the way the world worked, and take a LONG time and a lot of effort to stop. You can't avoid microplastics (more appropriately called nanoplastics given what people are usually talking about) just by dodging them at the source - they're in the water coming out of your tap, they're in the air, they're in food. The normal way of dodging pollutants (bottled water, 'organic' produce') aren't going to do squat, since the water in the rivers being used to grow the crops have nanoplastics in it, and bottled water makes it worse. Really, REALLY good water filters (RODI or activated carbon) can make a dent, but have you checked your clothes recently? That 10% elastane and all that other funk in the fabrics are just putting it back in for you. And what about the stuff everyone else is wearing? And the cars, trucks, etc. they are riding around in?

    So what do you do about it?

    Nothing. Like getting worried about all those telomeres getting used up through cellular division bringing about the inevitable march of old age and death. You can't do anything about it, so rather than having nanoplastics+huge effort+huge worry, you can drop the huge effort and huge worry and just have nanoplastics. Much better outcome.

    Working against nanoplastics is to benefit our grandkids, not us. We should 100% still be working towards it, but systemically through things like funding sustainability and materials research, raging against car-default cities, banning fast fashion and subsidising natural textiles, etc.

    • ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 14:33
      -1

      I think this is the kind of defeatist attitude that results in nothing getting done.

      There absolutely are things you can do on an individual level to reduce your individual exposure to microplastics/nanoplastics.

      If we can't even choose to take action on an individual level, how on earth are we going to tackle problems like this at the society level.

      In fact, several of your examples indicate obvious choices you can make to reduce your exposure.

      The two most significant sources of microplastics (by an ungodly margin) are tyres, and synthetic fibres.

      You can choose where you live, to a certain extent, depending on your wealth/work/family. For example, you can choose to live in quiet areas or quiet streets away from traffic, which is the source of those particles that you say are "in the air". Maybe you will say where you live has no effect on this risk, but all the studies that I've seen have showed that your proximity to a busy road is directly correlated with your intake of particles like heavy metals emitted by cars. For example, people who live closer to a petrol station are at higher risk for intake of heavy metals and other pollutants. Studies have also showed that people who live closer to busy roads have higher rates of Alzheimers and dementia (probably due to the intake of heavy metal particles emitted by cars, since studies have also found a correlation between heavy metals and Alzheimers).

      If you're lucky, you can choose to limit how much driving you do, or how much time you spend on busy roads.

      In regard to synthetic fibres, you can choose to buy cotton/silk/wool/hemp clothes and sheets, etc. You can choose not to have carpet and synthetic rugs/curtains in your house. You can choose furniture such as sofas with cotton instead of synthetic covers. You can choose latex or feather instead of polyester pillows.

      You can use only glass containers in the kitchen instead of plastic ones.

      You can choose to grow vegetables/fruit instead of buying them.

      I don't do all those things, but I do do some of them. I'm just highlighting the fact that there may be things you can do to lower your exposure.

      If you spend a lot of time in the middle of a capital city and you travel a lot and have a busy social life, yes I understand that your choices may not make much of a difference. But if you live a quiet life somewhere in a quiet area, I think your choices will make a difference.

      • Parentheses on 25/11/2024 - 14:52
        +5

        It's the opposite of defeatist - it's realist. You can spend your limited effort and energy on something that will do something meaningful, or you can waste it. The vast, vast majority of people cannot meaningfully choose where they work, and thus where they live. Even if you can, your act of spreading out makes things worse, because now both you and the things you consume must travel longer distances, increasing fuel use, tyre microplastics, etc. Fresh plastic doesn't pump out microplastics to anywhere near the rate it does when it degrades, so while yeah, you'll get a bit less drinking out of glass, the water that filled that glass which was previously in contact with a degrading coke bottle or shopping bag is going to be well and truly contaminated in advance, water treatment doesn't do much at all vs nanoplastics.

        You aren't getting the tyre microplastics because there is a street just outside, this isn't like atmospheric pollutants in distribution - you're getting tyre microplastics because of their impact on the production chain for your food and water, which is the main way microplastics get into the human body. It's not your clothes, it's EVERYBODY's clothes, and it's not the fact you are wearing them, it's that everybody is wearing them, and those fibres get onto everything, which gets into the water table, which gets into everything. If you're growing your own vegetables, you're still getting your water from the same places as everybody else - rely on rain and you'll grow pretty much nothing, irrigate and now that water table is pumping those microplastics right back in.

        There is a reason that while scientists are sounding the alarm on microplastics, they aren't sounding the alarm in the context of personal lifestyle choices. Because this isn't something personal lifestyle choices can fix. En masse personal choices can absolutely reduce things, but we've seen decades of evidence that this is a useless approach to try, systemic change requires systemic levers, not individual ones. Every scrap of effort trying to reduce people's individual exposure to microplastics is an honestly unethical waste, that effort should instead be going towards government influence and lobbying to do something with actual impact.

        • ForkSnorter on 25/11/2024 - 16:43

          Thanks, I appreciate your perspective and your knowledge.

          I do have a few points to note in response:

          It appears that a misreading of a study has led to the impact of tyres being overstated compared to other sources:

          https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/1b84lep/no…

          According to a quick Google, paint is actually the number one cause of microplastics leakage into the oceans and waterways.

          Fresh plastic doesn't pump out microplastics to anywhere near the rate it does when it degrades, so while yeah, you'll get a bit less drinking out of glass, the water that filled that glass which was previously in contact with a degrading coke bottle or shopping bag is going to be well and truly contaminated in advance.

          Nevertheless, using and keeping glass containers for decades is still better than using and reusing plastic containers for decades. I have seen plastic food containers degrade massively until they are pretty much unrecognizable. Even worse if you're using them in the microwave. In addition, the glass containers are likely to last longer and degrade less, if at all.

          if you're growing your own vegetables, you're still getting your water from the same places as everybody else - rely on rain and you'll grow pretty much nothing

          Actually I grow a ton of tomatoes, spinach, eggplant, and about 20 more different veggies, fruit and herbs (I rarely buy veggies), and for at least 6 months of the year, I don't need to water them at all because I live in a very wet, green area. Granted, there may be microplastics in the rain, but I would wager there is less than in the tap water.

          You aren't getting the tyre microplastics because there is a street just outside - you're getting tyre microplastics because of their impact on the production chain for your food and water

          How about both? Tyre wear happens on roads, and this is how tires create microplastics. I know they probably run into the ocean/rivers from there, but a fair amount of the particles will temporarily be in the air around the roads. Again, the studies I've seen show that you are at much higher risk of ingesting toxic particles when you're on or near a busy road than if you're hundreds of meters from a busy road, or in a forest in the mountains.

          • Parentheses on 25/11/2024 - 18:15
            +1

            @ForkSnorter: Even nanoplastics are too heavy to remain airborne for long - they are a food and drink issue, not an air issue. That's why it's not about immediate proximity, unless you are literally cooking food with things covered in dust, which is probably going to kill you with pathogens before plastic even enters the conversation. There's a tiny bit in air, but only tiny. Still good to not live near a busy road for other reasons with known health impacts, but less to do with microplastics.

            I wasn't basing my 2/3 on that 78% stat (if I was, then tyres and synthetic fabrics would be more than 100% of all microplastics, which would be very impressive). That was looking at total plastics of all sizes, and is largely not relevant. Tyre contribution to microplastics is consistently found to be around a third, with textiles being another third. While wikipedia does claim paint is a much larger source… wikipedia is likely wrong, as the study they are using disagrees with studies that actually looked at the microplastic samples, rather than estimating based on where paint is claimed to have been lost in a product's lifecycle. Not that it really matters, as paint microplastics are as ubiquitous and unavoidable for an individual as tyres and clothes.

            There's a few issues with your veggies. For 6 months of the year, you don't starve and die - this would be useful if it wasn't for the other 6 months. You will also quickly find the amount of arable land to do that on is outstripped by the number of people, making this approach unsustainable for nearly everybody. Worse - the water they are getting isn't just rain directly on them, it's water picking up things from the watershed all the way to you. Any roads between you and the watershed? Solid chance there are higher densities of microplastics in that than what is coming from the tap, as bad as the tap is to begin with.

            • ForkSnorter on 26/11/2024 - 08:39
              -1

              @Parentheses:

              Even nanoplastics are too heavy to remain airborne for long - they are a food and drink issue, not an air issue.

              I found a few relevant studies you might be interested in:

              "From December 2017 to January 2019, researchers collected atmospheric microplastic data from the western U.S., where 84% of microscopic shards came from road dust."
              Atmospheric travel: Scientists find microplastic everywhere

              The direct risk of local exposure to microplastics on roads is largely unknown, but a study on this is currently underway. They have collected the data and are currently in the process of analyzing the data:
              Investigating the link between traffic-related air pollution, microplastics, and health

              This article discusses the potential health effects from breathing microplastics:
              Microplastics in air: Are we breathing it in?

              You will also quickly find the amount of arable land to do that on is outstripped by the number of people, making this approach unsustainable for nearly everybody.

              You would be surprised what you can grow in a small backyard. We have 3 worm farms and 3 compost systems. We recycle 100% of our food into the worm farms, and about 70-80% of our garden waste (everything except wood and diseased plants) into the compost. This produces an extraordinary amount of nutrition, especially from the worm farms. I have seen direct results on our plants, especially the veggies like tomatoes that require a lot of nutrition, and we no longer need to buy fertilizer.

              Worse - the water they are getting isn't just rain directly on them, it's water picking up things from the watershed all the way to you. Any roads between you and the watershed?

              Not really. The rain is direct from the sea, which I expect is probably worse than rain from the mountains.

              Solid chance there are higher densities of microplastics in that than what is coming from the tap, as bad as the tap is to begin with

              I'll take a chance with that.

        • User102430 on 27/11/2024 - 15:37

          @Parentheses thanks for very sober view.

          It almost reminded me about a friend who'd fiercely reject COVID vaccine but at the same time, consumed alcohol pretty much every weekend.

          I reckon lack of proper exercise, bad diet, alcohol consumption, smoking, stress, etc. can be more dangerous to us than microplastic itself.

      • Protractor on 25/11/2024 - 15:06

        "I think this is the kind of defeatist attitude that results in nothing getting done."
        It is. But everyone here to a person has gadgets and 'stuff' piled to the hilt. Everyone wants Nirvana, nobody wants to contribute. Even with kids/grandkids, we expect everybody else to do the lifting.
        How many ppl do you know who have small enviro footprints? Who plant a trees for no other reason than 'we should'.

        I think 'inevitability' is a word we have to get used. We refuse to act. In fact we deny the problem (too many humans) so we can sleep at night. LOL

    • Ghost47 on 26/11/2024 - 19:47

      Working against nanoplastics is to benefit our grandkids, not us. We should 100% still be working towards it, but systemically through things like funding sustainability and materials research, raging against car-default cities, banning fast fashion and subsidising natural textiles, etc.

      For that to happen people need to actively start buying less products packaged in plastic (e.g. plastic wrapped fruit and veg, bottled water etc.). The few who actually care who realise how large the issue is will go ahead and minimise their plastic consumption but they are fighting a losing battle because most people either don't care or are oblivious to the problem.

      Plastics go hand-in-hand with cheap and abundant fossil fuels, because they come from fossil fuels (except for bioplastics, which need a lot of land to grow food like corn to make them) and most people can't seem to grasp the very simple and fundamental concept that fossil fuels are actually finite and that we are extracting them far faster than they can replenish, let alone the fact our entire civilisation and society only exists in it's current form because of fossil fuels. Do people seriously think humans just became smarter and somehow invented the car and computer magically? No, it was obviously because we discovered fossil fuels.

      The world is going to be a very different place once fossil fuels become too costly to extract which is projected to occur in the next two to three decades. It will come with a massive die-off of the human population (fossil fuels are used to make fertiliser) and a profound simplification of society. People born today and their descendants will need to live in that world, and it will also be a much more polluted world than it is today.

  • JIMB0 on 25/11/2024 - 17:10

    Unless you get your water in glass bottles I'd be more worried about the plastic pipes it traveled through on the way to your kitchen tap. I installed a short (<1m) piece of PEX pipe to replace a rusted out galvanised pipe, it took a lot of flushing to get rid of the plastic smell/taste in the water. The old gal pipe would have been leaching zinc and iron into the water. If you have a seldom used tap and the pipe is copper, the water will come out a dark colour until it's flushed. Concrete pipes leach lime into the water raising the pH. The short trip through your coffee machine is nothing.

  • Drakesy on 25/11/2024 - 18:37
    +1

    Just wait till you find out about the microplastics in your milk bottle, takeaway coffee cup, hell even canned foods all have plastic liners to them.

  • worrierwan on 25/11/2024 - 19:14
    +1

    I try to avoid microplastic where practical.

    Takeaway coffee cups and anything hot in takeaway containers (think takeaway from food courts, curries etc.) are what avoid. Trying to eliminate it from your coffee is impossible and exuhasting to think about.

    Just do what is practical to minimize microplastic or you could arguably end up having a worse impact form stress/a bad mental state than from the plastic itself.

    • worrierwan on 25/11/2024 - 19:24
      +1

      We can only limit microplastics, never eliminate it. You can only do what you can do practically so everyone is different.

      What I try and minimise:

      -Avoid shampoos, soaps and cosmetics with any fragrence, pthalates or parabens (Sukin is a great brand that ticks these off)

      All pthalates, fragrence and paraben ingredients are easy to notice as they all have these in their name on packaging ingredients

      -Avoid heating plastic in microwaves or putting hot food in plastic containers (use ceramic, glad wrap food once cold)
      Heat up store bought food in ceramic plates if needed

      -Stop using non stick pans (use stainless steel)

      -Stop using plastic cookware e.g. Spatulas (use metal or wood)

      -Reduce use of canned food where possible

      -Buy a water filter

      -Buy a non plastic water bottle

      -Try buy clothes that are fully cotton (sport clothes are hard for this. I only wear synthetic polyester at the gym to minimise contact time)

      • ddilrat on 25/11/2024 - 20:53

        Are synthetic materials really a problem as long as you’re not eating them?

        • worrierwan on 25/11/2024 - 21:25

          Yes but only the smallest particles can go through the skin so not as bad as ingesting all types of microplastic. Still a consideration to start buying cotton where possible though i think.

          Another big one is receipts- opt for E-receipts/no receipts and absolutely avoid using hand sanistiser and receipts together (which happened alot during COVID). Touching these together releases tonnes of BPA into your body

        • ForkSnorter on 26/11/2024 - 08:08

          Everything is constantly shedding particles, and this is why there is always dust in houses, and why you need to vacuum regularly.

          A large volume of these particles are in the air, you can see them if the sun shines through a room at a certain angle. So you do breathe them in.

          If you've got synthetic carpet, especially an old one, it will be contributing a lot of plastic particles to the air. Better off replacing it with tiles or timber flooring. I lived in a place covered in an ancient carpet for a number of years, and it was not very nice. I should have moved out of there straight away.

          Keep in mind, timber flooring could be a composite containing plastic, or it could have a plastic coating.

          I'm not an expert, however, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

  • MessyG on 25/11/2024 - 19:20
    +3

    Honestly I think it's the least of your worries. It's in our water supply already anyway. It's in precooked rice, fish etc. It's already in a lot of peoples arteries putting them at much higher risk of a heart attack. Keep drinking your coffee. And vote for anyone who has anything like a concept of a plan to do something about it. The concentration is only rising.

    Source re: microplastics and heart disease:
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2309822

  • ddilrat on 25/11/2024 - 20:35

    The water pipes to your house are probably plastic

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