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Minamoto Kanemasa KC-702 M Series 210mm Gyuto Knife $79.51 Delivered @ Amazon Japan on AU

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Minamoto Kanemasa KC-702 M Series 210mm Gyuto Knife $79.51 Delivered @ Amazon Japan on AUAffiliate
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KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 24/11/2024 - 23:28 amazon.com.au (1918 clicks)
Last edited 27/11/2024 - 15:33 by 1 other user
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Its been nearly 10 years since I first started posting on Ozbargain about the infamous market disruptor for kitchen knives - the Tojiro DP3 210mm. Back then it was around $70 but it has gone up steadily since its popularity increased.

I am pleased to tell you that I have found a new potential market disruptor (for the price). Introducing the Minamoto Kanemasa KC702 (from the Kanetsune Seki parent company), a carbon steel Gyuto with the potential to contend with the former disruptor.

After doing much research, I purchased this knife and got it a few days ago and wanted to try slicing before giving my honest opinions on it and found that for the money, it performs as well in some ways as the DP3 with some considerations:

  • It is non-stainless and will develop a patina
  • It has a 60/40 Grind out of the box, thus lefties will need to grind it down to 50/50 or use their right hand…

The profile of the knife is extremely similar to a Konosuke HD2 (which is supposed to be similar to a Masamoto KS). The cutting performance is similar to the Konosuke HD2, cuts like a laser out of the box. The grind may need some getting used to.

According to Camelx3 this is an all-time low. Having tried this knife, I would recommend it in a heartbeat. Looking forward to slicing up more food in the future

Origin: Seki, Japan
Steel: NKS32 (non-stainless carbon steel)
Handle: Pakkawood, Western Gyuto style
Bolster & Base: Stainless Steel
Grind: 60/40
Hardness: 59-60 HRC

More information on Reddit

Price History at C CamelCamelCamel.
Home & Garden Knife

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Comments

    • ChairmanMeow on 25/11/2024 - 00:13
      +10

      Wrong department, good sir. I think you're looking for Baccarat.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:04
      +4

      May thy knife chip and shatter

  • GJT on 25/11/2024 - 00:05

    Any tips on how to best maintain it OP? This is my first time getting a knife of this kind.

    • ChairmanMeow on 25/11/2024 - 00:09
      +3

      Congrats on the decision to upgrade! :) You will love it and hate it at the same time! Learn to use whetstone (I think this is cheap enough to botch it up vs other carbon steel knives being in the high $200s) and keep at it. It's an exciting journey.

      • GJT on 25/11/2024 - 00:11

        Thanks for sharing your tips.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 00:28
      +2

      Like what Chairman Meow said, learning with a whetstone is the best way to go. Considering it is this cheap, it may be tricky maintaining the 60/40 grind.

      Burrfection on Youtube has good simple instructions on how to sharpen knives using whetstones.

      Apart from sharpening, use two cloths to dry the knife. One to get majority of the water off, the other to get it absolutely dry. I also use Tsubaki oil or Camellia oil to oil the blades after washing and drying

      This knife is also a 58-60HRC, being a bit softer than VG10 blades. A KING whetstone should be sufficient for this kind of knife, although someone did post a decent suehiro one below.

      I remember seeing shapton stones going for cheap too

    • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 00:37
      +1

      Unless you live in a humid environment (i.e. QLD or NT), I wouldn't bother oiling the knife after each use to deter rusting.

  • ChairmanMeow on 25/11/2024 - 00:07

    Man, I bought a Konosuke HD2 2 years ago because I couldn't afford the Masamoto KS which kept being sold out even at a jacked up prices. I did not like my HD2. It cuts everything like butter, but EVERYTHING sticks to the blade… Can I fix this? It's sitting in my knife bag collecting dust.

    Does this knife do the same?

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 00:31
      +1

      To be honest i was slicing potatoes and yes, it was sticking to the side.

      I dont think you can "Fix" it, getting a mirror polish on the blade might not actually make it any better. I did force a dark patina using coffee but it still sticks to the side.

      The only thing I think would help is a kuroichi or hammered finish. I dont have a knife like that yet.

      I absolutely love my HD2 though, I can slice up cucumbers, garlic, carrots, so quickly.

      You could try this Kanetsune Seki with a hammered finish, at $66 which is almost suspiciously cheap…I did a quick search on 1KS/6 steel and sources say its similar to AUS-6/8 steel.

      I know that Kanetsune Seki is based in Seki Japan, but that one above i have no experience in but it may be worth a shot at that price.

  • dehkS on 25/11/2024 - 00:18

    If anyone can recommend a great knife sharpener let me know!

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 00:32

      I would use a whetstone. I personally dont use any of those sharpening contraptions, and it would not be advisable to use a wheel on this.

    • kevitkotw on 25/11/2024 - 00:44

      Learn to use a stone (or 2) plus a leather strop. The harder the knife material, the better the stone you'll need. I've used a bunch and Shapton Glass is very very good, although not a cheap option.

      I have a knife that's made from ZDP-189 which is ~HRC67. Shapton Glass is the only stones that sharpen it competently.

  • Neyo01 on 25/11/2024 - 00:18

    Saying not available from this seller when I add it to my cart :(

  • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 00:34

    It's interesting that the Minamoto Kanemasa has the same performance and laser grind given the choil shot looks like this and the Konosuke HD2 has a choil shot that looks like this.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 00:46
      -1

      Yes although i meant in terms of the shape of the blade.

      I have a photo of the two knives next to each other, the blade shape is almost identical. In terms of cutting, the 60/40 grind does make it respond differently but its still laser-esque

      • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 00:51

        No doubt the profiles look similar. I'm very curious that they perform similar given the dramatic difference in the thickness between that and say a Konosuke HD2, but there's no standardised term for a laser I guess.

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:01

          I have read it somewhere that 60/40 grinds do achieve some laserish performance. Although I've only had it for a very short time. Ask me again once I have used it for a few more weeks/months. Although if you want to put the effort in you can grind it down to 50/50 like the Konosuke to which then I think youd be rocking a budget HD2.

    • ohgee on 25/11/2024 - 01:03

      I hear all that you've said, but don't know why the neg, can you please clarify why this isn't a bargain?

      • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 01:14

        I think it's a reasonable price for a knife.

        I do not think that you're getting similar performance to the Konosuke HD2 ($400) that OP has compared the knife to, nowhere close. Ignoring the asymmetric bevels, the choil shots look so incredibly vastly different. Minamoto Kanemasa and the Konosuke HD2.

        You're getting a $80 knife that performs like an $80 knife, probably worse than a Tojiro.

        Behind the edge thickness is incredibly important for cutting performance, I would expect the Minamoto Kanemasa to be splitting carrots but the Konosuke to be gliding through. See articles here one and two

        This is also a good video from Knives and Stones (based in Syd) if you have 20 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlpMW92z-oM

        • ohgee on 25/11/2024 - 01:34

          Thanks for clarifying. However is that worthy of a neg? It seems you're focused on a comparison rather than the value of the product in focus.

          • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 01:38
            +1

            @ohgee: It's not a bargain. It's an $80 knife that performs worse than a similarly priced Tojiro with the added benefit of being able to rust.

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:53

          I respect your opinion but I have all 3 knives (The DP3, the HD2, and this) so allow me to share my "experience".

          The fit and finish of the 3, the HD2 is obviously the winner. The bevels on the spine are rounded, the steel is proprietary and it is a 'handmade' Artisinal knife. It is also a honyaki and the steel is extremely good (semi stainless). Mine has not developed any sort of patina.

          The KC702 is also a honyaki, with the feedback it provides similar to the HD2. It 'feels' like a laser in terms of how thin the blade cuts through matter, but the 60/40 grind does make it feel slightly different, although not by that much - with the exception that a left hander will feel immediate difference compared to the HD2. The profile (or shape) of the blade is almost identical to the HD2. If you want a picture, reach out.

          The DP3 is cladded, which provides a very different cutting experience. It is not at all laser like compared to the above two. The feedback is dull compared to the other two (feedback is mostly attributed to a combination of steel hardness, construction and grind, honyaki vs clad, and grind), The profile of the blade is different, and although I do enjoy using the DP3 on certain veg, its not the knife I find myself gravitating toward using.

          You're getting a $80 knife that performs like an $80 knife, probably worse than a Tojiro

          Im not sure how you came to this conclusion. Recently the Tojiro DP3 has been selling for $110-$130, and I would not buy it at this price. $70-90 is what I would pay for a DP3, at $110-$130 I would buy a Masahiro Carbon Steel Gyuto instead

          If you dont have deep pockets to shell out for a Konosuke HD2 or a Masamoto KS but you want to understand what the appeal of having the KS profile is, this is what you can get at a reasonable price. I find the Sabatier or KS profile much more useful and better experience overall in the variety of slicing tasks I perform

          • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 02:05

            @KnifeEnthusiastBoi: The KC702 has a terrible grind, compared to a Tojiro. I'm not saying the profile is bad. I'm saying the KC702 is a very thiccboi.

            To be honest, $0-200 aud knives are all pretty entry level, and I think price/performance falls off a cliff after a Takamura ($180). The Tsunehisa you've also linked has a much nicer grind.

            If you have some time, try comparing the noise from the Konosuke to your other knives on potatoes and carrots. I would sincerely expect you to hear splitting from the latter.

            • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 02:14

              @quorg: Im not really sure why you think that it has a "terrible grind". Are you saying that because its Asymmetrical?

              Because an asymmetrical grind doesnt make it "terrible", it has purposely been given that grind for its unique characteristics just like my yanagiba has an asymmetrical grind.

              Speaking of which, I was testing the 702 on carrots and potatoes, and on the potatoes I was able to get sub 1mm thin consistent slices and no "noise".
              The 702 was going through the carrots with relative ease, the difference not being substantial.

              Theres a lot of articles about this including here

              • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 02:21

                @KnifeEnthusiastBoi: I think it has a "terrible grind" because the choil example I'm seeing off the reddit post is so incredibly thick (i.e. bad). You may have a good grind, but other buyers could expect to receive such thiccbois from their purchases. Even one of the reddit posters considered their knife to be thick. I am highly doubtful it is laser-esque given they've described it to be a workhorse.

                The Knives and Stones video has a great intro example with a super thick knife slicing tomato but splits when it cuts.

                I haven't used a honyaki before (often $2000+). But I have used non-differentially hardended monosteels and clad knives. Aesthetics is often the most important, but grind, profile, food release, handle, height, weight have been the practical factors in order of importance for me.

                • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 02:31

                  @quorg: Well im not sure if it is "thick" by comparison, kind of hard to say. If it does become a problem for me, i can just thin down the edge to 50/50.

                  Sorry my bad I remembered wrong. The HD2 is not a honyaki if were talking about it needing differential heat treatment, although im not sure why someone would need a differentially heat treated knife… its not like were cutting people…

                  All I can say is my initial first impressions of the 702 is good, we will see how long that lasts (with the grind & steel aspects which take a bit longer to show). Out of the box its cutting extremely well, and not worse than the DP3. I would use it for a few more months before I would declare it as a lineup pick.

                  • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 02:38

                    @KnifeEnthusiastBoi: Like anyone else with gear acquisition syndrome, I’ve definitely got more knives than I need and performance doesn’t really matter in the home environment…

                    My only advice is Damascus knives tend to be sticky, and you may have to learn how to refinish a knife by etching with acid once you scratch up the blade face when you have to thin.

  • Clear on 25/11/2024 - 00:36
    +1

    Another one for the collection thank you

  • kevitkotw on 25/11/2024 - 00:39
    +3

    If you don't mind my 2c.

    Carbon steel is so nice to cut with when it's sharp, there's something about it… The whole blade bare carbon steel though, makes it a very different knife to ol' faithful Tojiro FU-808 DP3.

    Here's my suggestion for that price range:
    https://japanwithlovestore.com/en-au/products/when-seki-mago…

    • Bear in mind I have not tried this knife
    • Carbon Steel but it's ss clad, so it's just near the edge that will patina.
    • $67 plus shipping has it around $80
    • video showing the knife - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bh_1KvTd1Y
    • 59HRC, 165grams, 50/50 bevel (big deal for this leftie)

    Tojiro DP3 FU-807 (180mm) is still a good price at $74. I'm a large person and 180mm isn't a deal breaker for me at all.
    https://www.amazon.com.au/TOJIRO-Ltd-Fujita-Takako-FU-807/dp…

    This was the cheapest I can find Tojiro DP3 FU-808 210mm ($113 shipped to me in Perth):
    https://japanwithlovestore.com/en-au/products/tojiro-fujitor…
    Still a good nice at that price imo.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 00:56
      +1

      The DP3 is a trusty knife but the VG10 core I find rather chip-prone. At the end of the day, I have only had it for a few days.

      I love the shape of this knife more than the DP3. So far my favourite shape has been the Konosuke HD2/Masamoto KS style sabatier, and this knife is just like that.

      In terms of the clad vs honyaki preference, I find myself gravitating more toward honyaki (single steel) construction as a preference, with the clad stainless types I prefer using on highly acidic foods. I like running carbon steels on meats because they leave that wonderful blue patina.

      For this knife, I decided to try forcing a "fake" hamon patina with meat juices, and applying a coffee patina and it has a very nice slick black look. It didnt turn out as I had hoped, but the darkened/blackened steel patina appearance looks really cool in my opinion. The hamon still shows up, slightly darker than the rest of the blade.

      I have yet to try cutting more meat since doing the coffee patina, and dont know how it will change over time but I've grown to appreciate it.

      • Lindsayrg1 on 25/11/2024 - 01:02

        Seems like it's sold out. Any other recommendations besides the posters above which I'm currently looking through?

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:14

          This Kanetsune Seki KC957 (210mm) for $58.14 and KC958 (240mm) for $65.86 I am curious about, but have no experience with these AUS 8 similar steels, but on paper it seems that AUS6-8 is rated a bit more favourably than the CrMoV18 that Global uses. If I had to buy a knife cheaper than a Global G2, I would probably give one of these a go.

          I will keep looking for you

      • kevitkotw on 25/11/2024 - 01:05
        +1

        I've thought about playing around with the forced patina but never gotten around to it.

        I don't personally have an issue with patina, but I think a reasonable amount of people are put off by it.

        My favourite knife is (was) a santoku that I didn't like the feel of. Carbon steel core, ss clad. I took a grinder and changed the shape of the knife (a bit more gyuto) at the tip and it became much loved.

        I have chipped VG10 steel, but I think any thing approaching HRC60 is prone. Carbon steel is brittle too. Case in point, one of my kids made a real mess of the aforementioned favourite knife 2 days ago…

        Now I'm using my ZDP thing. Worst knife to sharpen… in the history of knives.

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:20
          +1

          Sharpening HRC 67 sounds like hell… Good luck to you, maybe this one would have been good.

          I dont either, but I did quite a bit of research to see what kinds of patinas would develop depending on what kind of food it cut… I dont fancy the "Brown" patinas so I wasnt about to cut onions with this highly reactive knife.

          It was a shame that my patina plan didnt pan out the way i thought it would.. I can imagine how cool it would have looked. May get another one of these in the future and just run it through meat only.

    • frogduck on 25/11/2024 - 01:03

      Any recommendations for a santoku (similar price range is fine)? I currently use a Kiwi santoku so assuming would be easy to upgrade (and have a Fujitora FU-808).

      • kevitkotw on 25/11/2024 - 01:11
        +2

        maybe same knife, different style?
        https://japanwithlovestore.com/en-au/products/tojiro-fujitor…

        • frogduck on 25/11/2024 - 01:40

          Cool thanks :)

      • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 01:24

        After watching Triple Star from Culinary Class Wars, I have been entertaining the idea of getting his knife

        Its $211~ though

        • frogduck on 25/11/2024 - 01:40

          Oh he was amazing, I would have sliced off my fingers doing what he did.

        • kevitkotw on 25/11/2024 - 01:45

          Bunka is on my list. I haven't used one though and wasn't keen to buy an expensive one if I don't like the shape.

          That steel is also on my list…

          I'm going to bed before I impulse buy a knife or 3……

          • quorg on 25/11/2024 - 01:53

            @kevitkotw: Fwiw a bunka often evolves into an unintentional nakiri. I've heard no shortage of stories of k-tip profiles tipping accidentally including some of my own. You don't get any performance difference compared to a santoku but they do look cooler…

  • Andy01 on 25/11/2024 - 09:38

    On a slightly different note, but a question for the obviously knowledgeable members here, I am looking for some decent straight edge (no serrated please) steak knives. I currently have a selection of various Japanese kitchen knives (Tojiro, Mac, Kasumi & Fujiwara Kanefusa) and want a steak knife that has and will hold a decent edge.

    I am aware that cutting on ceramic plates wreaks havoc with edges, but I cannot stand tearing a steak apart with a serrated knife.

    So far, I am looking at Tojiro Classic DP, LionSteel, Wusthof Classic or Messermeister Avanta - the choices are somewhat limited. There seems to be a heap of cheap knives, and a few ultra-expensive (think $180-400 per steak knife) knives, and not a lot in between.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 25/11/2024 - 10:28

      Hi Andy,

      I just came across this. I dont know if its worth getting one to try, it might become a favourite petty knife

      Hitohira, Imojiya ST, Petty (Utility Knife) Damascus 135mm $84.99 + Delivery. Standard Tojiro Petty costs about $75-80, this looks better.

      This Kanetsune KC 727 one also seems good for $60 each. I think it uses AUS8 steel

      • Andy01 on 25/11/2024 - 20:06

        Thanks for the suggestions. I have thought about getting some pettys, but the only thing that puts me off is that I won't be the only person using them and if someone grabs it too close to the heel of the blade, the back "corner" can be pretty sharp and catch a finger - especially people who are used to more conventional steak knives with bolsters (and often fairly blunt).

        I found a few quite nice pettys - like this one;

        https://www.hocho-knife.com/kanetsune-kc-950-dsr-1k6-stainle… - $64

        I am just a bit worried about a guest touching the back corner of the blade.

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 26/11/2024 - 22:28

          The Hitohira that I linked looks like a "taller" petty

  • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 27/11/2024 - 15:32

    Its back in stock! But price went up a tiny bit.

  • GJT on 06/12/2024 - 22:07

    Got mine today and looks like it comes with oil applied. Not sure how to properly wash it off without harming the knife.

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