Giving Resignation Notice over Holiday Period

JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 10:35

Hi all!

I recently submitted my notice of resignation to my company. I have leave scheduled for the 20th of December till the 3rd of Jan, so in my resignation letter i stated my final day of employment with the company will be the 3rd of Jan.

HR has gotten back to me and said actually my final day will be the 20th of December. This is clearly to avoid paying public holidays over the Christmas period. I could have waited and submitted my notice 4 weeks before 3rd of Jan but I chose to do it now out of good faith and the company has definitely not acted in the same way.

My question is, am I able to enforce the Jan 3rd end date if that's what I've specifically stated in my letter? Are the able to force me to leave early and only pay till 20th of December?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks!

Education & Work

Comments

  • askbargain on 22/11/2024 - 10:38
    +54

    been asked and answered before

    it's a notice, they can do whatever they want.

    everyone knows to hand in notice after cashing in all public holidays (dec + apr) and annual leave

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/834695

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/841806

      • JIMB0 on 23/11/2024 - 14:16
        +14

        I can't believe HeWhoKnobs missed this spot!!!

        • pwnd on 24/11/2024 - 09:13
          +2

          Need to keep commenting here to push hewhoknobs reply even further down into the abyss.

      • RTX9090Ti on 24/11/2024 - 08:50

        Just suck it up and submit to any decision they made, they have the power, not you.

      • donotuse on 24/11/2024 - 12:28
        +1

        you could have told your team verbally and not hand in your formal resignation until a bit later

      • OZKap on 24/11/2024 - 07:23
        +43

        All HR staff have been fully trained in this area of law

        HAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA

        • RTX9090Ti on 24/11/2024 - 08:51
          +2

          HAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA

        • MrThing on 25/11/2024 - 08:25
          +7

          HR haven't be trained in fuk all about employment law……they aren't lawyers and are also too dumb to become lawyers or apply law correctly

          Learn that quickly to avoid being ripped off in the future

          • Miami Mall Alien on 25/11/2024 - 14:04
            +3

            @MrThing: HR haven't been trained… period. They're the textbook definition of bullshit jobs. You could replace entire HR departments with teams of Rhesus monkeys or PowerShell scripts and nothing of value would be lost.

            • MrThing on 25/11/2024 - 14:29
              +2

              @Miami Mall Alien: The role of HR used to be done by managers and supervisors (hiring / firing / performance management)

            • Jules_d1 on 25/11/2024 - 14:58
              +2

              @Miami Mall Alien: As someone who use to sell HR software to small businesses, most "HR Managers" are the business owners or someone who has adopted the role as the business grows. They may have done a short course at best. This it why there are so many unfair dismissal claims being filed every day. We used to offer HR support to small businesses and would always say DO NOT terminate someone until you talk to us. Sadly, most came to us after the fact when they were slapped with a fair work claim.

            • OhNoUShiz on 25/11/2024 - 20:46
              +1

              @Miami Mall Alien: Maybe even added values lol

      • Juice-Wa on 25/11/2024 - 17:31
        +2

        HR department is fully trained in latte art, PowerPoint and tiktok, but they can barely comprehend the fairwork act. This is why your employment contract is so open ended, so any question can be met with "it's in your contract". Dumbest paper weights in the office.

    • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:56

      only few know to hand in notice on the day
      in my case, on the hour.

    • akashra on 24/11/2024 - 20:23
      +5

      No - these are both very different situations are are not relevant here.

      In this case, the employee has decided to give more than the minimum notice period. However they are not entitled to shorten that date - if they wish to do so, they can do so by paying the required notice period. If the company want to make the end date the 20th, then they needed to terminate their employment 2 days ago - and pay out that period, which they haven't done.

      Short answer is yes, you absolutely can enforce that 3rd of January date. Not only that, but they employee has left enough time to rescind that notice and note that it wasn't accepted within the terms given.

      • askbargain on 08/12/2024 - 02:01

        In this case, the employee has decided to give more than the minimum notice period.

        Can an Employer Shorten Your Remaining Period When a Longer than Minimum Notice Is Given?

        How is this case different?

        if they wish to do so, they can do so by paying the required notice period

        Who is they?

        Short answer is yes, you absolutely can enforce that 3rd of January date.

        Make it 3 Jan 2026 then

  • Pufff on 22/11/2024 - 10:40
    +6

    Read your contract on what the termination/resignation period is. Once you give notice they can pay you out for that period or make you work until then.

  • haemolysis on 22/11/2024 - 10:51
    +51

    "In good faith" lol. You're both trying to rip each other off over pay for non-worked period. Which is totally fair, it is your right and you're entitled to do so! But are you really acting like you're doing them a favour? A bit rich.

    • JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 10:55
      -7

      In good faith to my team, not the company

      • JimmyF on 22/11/2024 - 11:44
        +41

        In good faith to my team, not the company

        LOL there is no extra good faith to your team, you tried to scam some extra paid days.

        Your team doesn't get any extra from you if you finish on the 20th of Dec or 'work' through to the 3rd Jan. Either way, the last day they will see you is the 20th of Dec the rest is leave/PH.

        • JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 16:30
          +2

          No they actually benefit me letting them know now however, as we're in the middle of a planning week for the next 3 months. Made sense to not withhold the fact I wouldn't be around when they're assigning me tasks

          • p1 ama on 24/11/2024 - 12:38
            +7

            @JDearyMe: You could have just shared that you are intending to resign and are about to begin the formal resignation process (and then submitted your letter a week later or whatever).

            This is what I have done with my manager / team on all of the occasions I've resigned. Just had an informal meeting with them, let them know that I will be resigning and asking them if there's anything they would like me to do in the meantime. I've always thought it was good courtesy to let my team / manager know informally before then starting the resignation process with HR.

            • johnno07 on 25/11/2024 - 08:07

              @p1 ama:

              I've always thought it was good courtesy to let my team / manager know informally before then starting the resignation process with HR.

              This is 100% the professional way to do this. Also would have resulted in OP getting a bunch of free public holidays. Now they know.

              • JDearyMe on 25/11/2024 - 11:21
                +1

                @johnno07: I did do this, manager requested in in writing the same day. Not the sort of upper management that he would have been okay with hiding things from and nor would I have expected him too.

        • lonewolf on 24/11/2024 - 08:16
          +1

          I think you missed the point, reason why he gave early notice was so that the company and team can prepare around him and organise for someone else to do his work etc.

          • JimmyF on 24/11/2024 - 15:50
            +1

            @lonewolf:

            I think you missed the point, reason why he gave early notice was so that the company and team can prepare around him and organise for someone else to do his work etc.

            Oh I get the OPs angle, but the fact is they gave notice 4 weeks before Xmas leave started but tried to 'extend' the end date till the NY so they cashed in on public holidays etc.

            They could have given notice at the same time they did and finished on 20th Dec, this wouldn't have changed anything. The "In good faith" angle is a bit of a LOL. We all know they tried to cash in some paid PH out of this.

    • SlickMick on 23/11/2024 - 21:05
      +1

      Of couse he is. I had a colleague who always sends his resignation while he's on leave. That's fair and he's entitled to, but lacking in the doing a favour by providing an opportunity for handover.

  • brendanm on 22/11/2024 - 10:55
    +5

    To find out if you are correct, make the numbers even wilder than they current are. Assume you told them your last day will be October 13th next year. Do you really think they would have to keep you employed until this date?

    The notice period works both ways.

    • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:52
      -2

      Notice period is in favour of employee.
      there is no such thing as unfair resignation.

      • brendanm on 24/11/2024 - 15:14
        -1

        What are you harping on about.

  • JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 10:56
    +26

    Alright cheers guy, understood I messed up. Lessons learnt

    • brad1-8tsi on 23/11/2024 - 16:24
      +24

      The days of doing the right thing by your employer and expecting similar consideration are long gone.

      • Sammy2000 on 23/11/2024 - 22:46
        +2

        Did these days ever exist?

        • brad1-8tsi on 24/11/2024 - 07:24
          +18

          Yes they did. I've had some great employers and bosses.

          When I worked for Goodyear as a mechanic I broke my arm quite badly (5 months in plaster). I knew I would run out of sick leave (we got 5 days a year, non-cumulative) and I was bricking it.
          Regional Manager comes to the hospital: "I've looked at your attendance record. You've never used all 5 days in the 2 years you've been here. Your Manager says you are a good worker with potential for promotion. We will pay you for as long as you are off and when you come back you can work in the office until your arm heals."

          I've had others who have played fair as well.

          • whyisave on 24/11/2024 - 08:41

            @brad1-8tsi:

            You've never used all 5 days in the 2 years you've been here

            That's a nice, feel-good story.

            I didn't take sick leave for last 3 years, and before that, had not taken it for more than 3 days annually, for over 10 years.

            Yet, I know this doesn't make much difference, when other colleagues take weeks of sick leave, and there is no change to bonus or favourabke treatment from management.

            If you can get in with the manager, you can skirt around the HR 'guidelines' (because they're not rules anymore )

          • p1 ama on 24/11/2024 - 15:04

            @brad1-8tsi:

            Yes they did. I've had some great employers and bosses.

            As a people manager myself, I think the direction over time is that employers (i.e. companies) have cracked down on a manager's leeway to manage their own team / staff, and as such, decisions are now being made by HR teams who are just applying a written policy without any consideration for the specific circumstances at play.

            Speaking to your example, many years ago, if someone in my team submitted a sick leave request, it would come to me. There was a formal company policy around requiring a medical certificate if more than one day of sick leave was taken consecutively. However, I would always just approve even if no certificate was attached because I trusted my team and, in almost all cases, would have just let them take the day off if they had just asked anyway.

            However, sick leave requests now go through HR where they follow the written policy exactly, and there is no room for judgement anymore, making the whole process of taking sick leave a very annoying process (which I'm sure most would understand with how difficult it can be to get a doctor's appointment).

            • Randolph Duke on 24/11/2024 - 16:23

              @p1 ama:

              However, sick leave requests now go through HR where they follow the written policy exactly, and there is no room for judgement anymore, making the whole process of taking sick leave a very annoying process (which I'm sure most would understand with how difficult it can be to get a doctor's appointment).

              Annoying process to dissuade you from doing it? That’s a feature.

            • MrFrugalSpend on 25/11/2024 - 07:18

              @p1 ama: I hate that whole certificate for a day off thing and fortunately my boss used to trust me as I did for people in my team also.
              We now have HR rules / payroll team processing it with blanket policies meaning they ask for it if on a Friday or a Monday (which this was), or 2 days or more. So they trust you for 1 day only between Tues and Thurs otherwise the payroll system asks you to upload the certificate when you enter your timesheet / leave application otherwise 'computer says no'.

              For example, last time I was sick my GP had no appointments available for 3 days (which is common) by which time I was mostly over it. Yet at least mine won't write that you were sick 3 days ago either… only a certificate for the day you are in and how long they think you need off which by that time could be nada. What's more, you don't need to go to a GP for a cold, even a bad one usually. So its a waste of GP's resources and money given hardly anyone bulk bills now it uses a big chunk of your take home pay just to get the certificate to get paid as a diminishing return. I don't think it should be a requirement - I'm entitled to the sick leave days in my package, I say I'm sick, if you don't believe me, there's no trust anyway, then give me a warning or sack me.

              Reminds me of when a d…khead lecturer at uni made me bring PROOF my grandmother had died to get an extension on an assignment (she lived elsewhere so I had to travel several days to the funeral). For uni students, I kind of get it, but it was awkward - I had to ask my mum whose mum had just died for paperwork for proof so he wouldn't fail me on an essential assignment for the course leading to whole course being a fail. Yeah, that's what she wanted to be dealing with and hearing from her son at that time!? "Oh yeah, I want to come along and see everyone but only if you can send me proof she's dead first…!?" Okay I didn't word it like that, but it was not cool regardless.

              • terriblebargainer on 25/11/2024 - 08:28
                +1

                @MrFrugalSpend: I have the same issue, going to be sick? make sure you book that GP appointment a week before you get sick otherwise you have no chance.

                I don't bother with the GP for colds / flu / things that don't need a GP but work demands a certificate, i just use services such as Hola Health, answer a couple of yes or no questions on the website, pay the $16.90 and i have a medical certificate. It is also cheaper than going to the GP as we don't have a local GP that we don't have to pay a gap for anymore and they are all at least double the med cert price.

                For anyone who has an employer that requires med certs i would highly recommend one of these online places, you can still talk to / zoom call a Dr and get scripts etc but they have the option of just requesting a med cert. Unless necessary the days of sitting in waiting room just for a piece of paper to satisfy HR are long gone.

        • whyisave on 24/11/2024 - 08:34

          It did, before Covid.

          • Sammy2000 on 24/11/2024 - 09:21
            +1

            @whyisave: It made everyone more self centred.

            • whyisave on 24/11/2024 - 13:02
              +1

              @Sammy2000: Exactly.

              Also, I notice so many people acting more and more brazen,
              ie. in their internal thinking, they're probably thinking
              "I've survived covid, lockdowns, etc….nothing can scare me now".

    • SlickMick on 23/11/2024 - 21:13
      +1

      I wouldn't quit on this, I'd withdraw my resignation. Leave them wondering whether you're going to whip it out again JIT next time.

      I once had an agent accidentally ring the MD of my company instead of me. I got hounded for weeks after that. "Are you leaving? We need to make plans" etc. I stopped getting invited to meetings, and eventually I just said fine, yes I'm leaving and gave them notice without a job to go to. (Luckily the other offer did come through.) I would never let a company take the upperhand on me again.

      My current employer only needs 2 weeks notice so that's all they will get. (Yes, I'm disgruntled.) And I think whilst on a holiday of at least 2 weeks might be the way I do it.
      Maybe I'll offer to consult back if they want a handover.

      • brad1-8tsi on 24/11/2024 - 07:26
        +6

        The "you must give notice" thing is a joke. I've never seen any manager / firm move to advertise in that time or embed any alternate plans to take up the void.

        • SlickMick on 25/11/2024 - 12:58

          In some of my jobs they've paid me out to ensure I don't do anything evil to the systems, but usually I've had to give 4 weeks notice which was enough time to handover what I'm working on.

  • freefall101 on 22/11/2024 - 10:57
    +1

    To be fair, it's not just your leave, they'd have been paying you for a pile of public holidays. That is the issue from their perspective.

    They also could have cancelled your leave and made you work on the regular work days, would you have agreed to that?

    • CheapandUsed on 22/11/2024 - 11:14

      They also could have cancelled your leave and made you work on the regular work days

      Yeah I experienced this one… and then had my start date delayed anyway so could have given notice after the break.

  • sumyungguy on 22/11/2024 - 10:57
    +1

    Fair Work: Ending the Notice Period Early

    • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:51

      this is just guideline suggestions, not enforceable law.

      • akashra on 24/11/2024 - 20:35
        +1

        Parts of it are based in law. Essentially though, they require mutual agreement - they don't have this here. So they can elect to fire her - and pay out the notice period in its entirety, but then they're looking at unfair dismissal and similar issues.

        She also has options that include rescinding that notice and then just re-issuing it for Jan 3, among a number of additional options.

  • AustriaBargain on 22/11/2024 - 11:10
    +5

    You should have waited bud.

  • Drakesy on 22/11/2024 - 11:34
    +5

    Ya played yourself.

    • PhilosophicalTurtle on 24/11/2024 - 09:43
      +1

      Honestly, I kinda like it when this happens.

      • AccessMax on 24/11/2024 - 12:32

        Like when player gets played?

  • JimmyF on 22/11/2024 - 11:42
    +4

    HR has gotten back to me and said actually my final day will be the 20th of December. This is clearly to avoid paying public holidays over the Christmas period. I could have waited and submitted my notice 4 weeks before 3rd of Jan but I chose to do it now out of good faith and the company has definitely not acted in the same way.

    You played a game and lost.

    Just like you wanted to cash in on the public holiday money, they don't want to pay it out. It appears you have given enough noticed for them to shorten your notice period. You will be paid your annual leave balance.

    My question is, am I able to enforce the Jan 3rd end date if that's what I've specifically stated in my letter? Are the able to force me to leave early and only pay till 20th of December?

    Nope, what is the notice period in your contract? That is the minimum owed to you once you say you are resigning. Basically to stop people saying I've resigned but will be finishing in 20 years so you can't sack me.

  • JIMB0 on 22/11/2024 - 12:39
    -2

    What did your union say?

    • Jake D on 22/11/2024 - 12:57
      +5

      "Pay us our fee or we'll tell your boss you're not allowed to work"

  • djsweet on 22/11/2024 - 13:17
    +3

    From their perspective your last day will be 20 Dec regardless of whether or not you technically continue employment until Jan 3. So they are just acting in their best interest minimising their financial liability. Never give more notice that your contract stipulates because your company will always act in their best interest, never the interest of an employee who has already resigned. I guess you just learned that the hard way, but its a mistake you probably won't make again.

  • cheekymonkey97 on 22/11/2024 - 14:35
    +5

    I love watching people learn the hard way that you never ever "act out of good faith" when it comes to large companies. They will never hesitate to screw you at the first opportunity they get.

  • sumyungguy on 22/11/2024 - 16:16

    Consider for your next rodeo: when it's [3-Jan minus your nominal notice period], resign with date effective 3-Jan. Instead of booking ARL from 20-Dec to 3-Jan, take sick leave day by day which you would have saved up for this purpose. Second part of the lesson: never again allow yourself to get outmanouevred by your employer.

  • JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 16:21
    +3

    Just for reference I only gave notice now as my team of 6 is currently going through planning for our next 3 months of work and tasks were starting to be assigned to me long term that I knew I wouldn't be here for. So I let know now to not screw them over. Didn't sit right with me to pretend like I would be

    Naturally, that was the error and should have waited as people have said.

    • sumyungguy on 22/11/2024 - 16:24
      +1

      Could you have shared in-confidence with your colleagues without disclosing to your employer?

      • JDearyMe on 22/11/2024 - 16:29
        +2

        Potentially if I'd have known to share my scheme with him beforehand. Again, lessons learnt

  • AndyC1 on 22/11/2024 - 17:19
    +5

    HR is not for you, it is for the company.
    Once you resign or a given notice assume the company will only pay you for the min notice period they have to legally do or if the fire you then they may walk you out of the building at any time and pay you for the rest of the notice period.

    • terriblebargainer on 25/11/2024 - 08:37
      +2

      I am always suprised how so many people think HR are there to help them, a positive outcome form HR is generally just a the side effect of them looking out for the company.

  • yellowfever on 22/11/2024 - 21:10
    +2

    So effectively you donated 3 public holiday pay to your co workers LOL. And what benefit do they get? A little earlier planning because you left. That is a bit silly.

  • pjd24 on 23/11/2024 - 12:18
    +1

    One thing I have learned the hard way in corporate life of 20 years is that the moment you hand in your resignation, the company has no interest (which is fair) in looking after your preferences/conveniences. A bit like a divorce I imagine (no experience there yet), it would be silly to expect your soon-to-be-ex to show you any empathy. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, get your cards in order before pulling the pin, because there aint no going back after that. You have zero leverage to ask for any favours.

    • SlickMick on 23/11/2024 - 21:24

      Have you found it always this way? It never used to be in my experience.
      In my first job, I transferred interstate for 3 years. When I decided to return home, they arranged for me to continue to work from a regional office until I got my life sorted.

      But then again, that company had pool tables, table tennis tables, a tennis court, and a squash court.
      Sometimes I wonder what young me was thinking to leave that job.

      • pjd24 on 23/11/2024 - 23:07

        Did you actually hand in your resignation with another offer in hand? Because, as a company if an employee has resigned with another offer, at that point, they have made up their mind to move on. And the employee has demonstrated they are willing to walk way. Very rarely would a company have any interest in retaining the employee in such a circumstance. If money was the only reason, company may consider negotiating within reasonable limits, but I have found that to be too unreliable as an option. So best to expect the worst when you resign. Plan it as a one-way road. If you are lucky, it may turn up better, but don't bet on it

        • SlickMick on 23/11/2024 - 23:34

          No, I just decided I wanted to return to my home town, and they were like, well we have an office near there - work from there for a while. I couldn't really do my job remotely, so I just did those parts that I could… it was almost like a handover but it continued for months. It gave me the opportunity to find the right job rather than be desperate for the first one to come up, and the company sapped all the knowledge they could out of me before I left.
          Back in the days when people were considerate and worked out what was mutually beneficial to all parties. The exact opposite of the toxic place I work now.

          But yeah I don't know whether there are any good companies to work for any more. I've had a bad run.

    • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:48

      this is how plebs think

      • pjd24 on 24/11/2024 - 15:27

        sure, tell your boss that you are interviewing externally because you didn't get salary raise/promotion/whatever. And witness him kneeling before your non-pleb self to give you whatever you wanted and much more. Whatever floats your boat.

  • DiscoJango on 24/11/2024 - 07:26
    +2

    Omg, we thought you were family, were all a family here! (Unless we need to firesomeone)

  • gromit on 24/11/2024 - 07:43
    +3

    I could have waited and submitted my notice 4 weeks before 3rd of Jan but I chose to do it now out of good faith and the company has definitely not acted in the same way.

    In good faith? what good faith, you picked a date that would intentionally be the most expensive for them and the most profitable for you and you are suprised they said nah ah? seriously?

  • Poor Ass on 24/11/2024 - 08:56

    Contract

  • Devaust on 24/11/2024 - 09:07

    That’s what life is learning from personal lessons and moving on. At least OP acknowledged lessons learnt so no point trolling them unnecessarily.

  • yamahamoto on 24/11/2024 - 10:33
    +6

    I got a new job 2 weeks before my 7 years at previous workplace. I told my prospective employer about this to delay my start date for another 2 weeks. A day after my 7 years I handed I my resignation to make sure I get my long service leave.

    • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:46
      +2

      businessman

  • factor on 24/11/2024 - 10:42
    +2

    Are you under an enterprise agreement or award? What does that say about termination by the company? Can termination by them be done for no reason?

    If they want to end your employment sooner than you offered they are terminating you. That means they need to comply with any rules around them initiating termination of employment.

    Under my enterprise agreement what you describe would be a breach of the agreement.

    In a previous employer no-reason termination could be initiated by the employer, but the notice period in that case was double (8 weeks). Where as a for-cause termination would be 4 weeks, or an employee initiated end would be 4 weeks.

  • Rochie on 24/11/2024 - 10:55
    +1

    Correct me if im wrong, but wouldn't you need to agree to finishing earlier? Otherwise they would have to terminate your employment which could they give grounds for an unfair dismissal? Or am I just wrong?

    • FW190 on 24/11/2024 - 11:44

      standard notice period is 4 weeks, OP probably handed in his/her resignation earlier this week, but wanted to stay on until New Year, which is like 6 weeks away.

      OP's employer turned around and said "nah, 4 weeks is fine".

      otherwise, if people can pick their own last day, everyone would hand in their resignation with the last day as 31/12/2099 and would never have to worry about being out of work ever again :)

      • Rochie on 24/11/2024 - 14:30
        +1

        Handing in your resignation doesn't protect you from ever being fired. But if they terminate you, there would need to be a valid reason otherwise you have a case for unfair dismissal.

        An employer can't just make you quit earlier unless you agree upon the request.

      • SpicyStew on 24/11/2024 - 14:45

        this is how plebs think

      • akashra on 24/11/2024 - 20:37

        That's not how it works. Outside the minimum period they need mutual agreement - which they don't have here.

    • gromit on 24/11/2024 - 16:34
      -2

      Notice period automatically starts on the day you hand in notice unless by agreement from the employer. Once you hand in your notice you can ask for whatever period you like, they only have to give you whatever you're contractually entitled too though which is usually 4 weeks. Expecting them to honor an extra couple of weeks over xmas is pretty rude and any business would be insane or extremely generous to say yes to that.

      • Rochie on 24/11/2024 - 16:53
        -2

        Yep after reading some more that makes sense. Just give minimum notice in the future.

        • gromit on 24/11/2024 - 17:01

          yep especially if you plan on screwing them over with the holiday period.

      • akashra on 24/11/2024 - 20:39
        -1

        That is absolutely not how it works at all. If I make it my intend to finish up employment say, in 3 or 6 months time because of some life event, that doesn't give them license to just decide to terminate the employment a month from now.

        They require agreement of the employee, otherwise it's termination of employment on their end and they need to adhere not just to all notice periods, but laws relating to unfair dismissal.

        • gromit on 24/11/2024 - 23:03
          +1

          https://library.fairwork.gov.au/viewer/?krn=K600628

          "Ending the notice period early
          If an employee resigns from their employment and provides their employer with the required notice period (or more than the required notice period), their employer may decide they don’t want them to work through their notice period. The employer may decide this either when the employee resigns, or later before their employment ends. A number of options may be available, including:

          Coming to an agreement with the employee to stop working
          Ending the employee’s employment."

          "Ending the employee’s employment
          If an employee resigns and provides their employer with the required notice period (or more than the required notice period) and the employer doesn’t require the employee to work out the notice period, the employer can terminate the employee’s employment before the end of the notice period, and provide them with the full period of required notice or a ‘payment in lieu of notice’.

          Before ending an employee’s employment during their notice period, an employer should consider all of their obligations. An employer should also be aware that an employee may be able to dispute a decision to end their employment through claims such as:

          unfair dismissal
          breach of general protections
          unlawful termination
          breach of contract.
          For more information on ending employment, see Ending employment - Fair Work Ombudsman."

          • akashra on 26/11/2024 - 15:18

            @gromit: Yes - read this bit carefully:

            "Ending the employee’s employment
            If an employee resigns and provides their employer with the required notice period (or more than the required notice period) and the employer doesn’t require the employee to work out the notice period, the employer can terminate the employee’s employment before the end of the notice period, and provide them with the full period of required notice or a ‘payment in lieu of notice’.

            It is basically exactly the same as if they provided only the required notice period - at any job, you can opt to have the employee finish up prior to the date they nominate, so long as you pay out the notice period.

            But what important to understand is that the 'notice period' is considered to be the number of days prior to the final date they specify. It doesn't mean that if I tell you I'm leaving in two months time, and the notice period is four weeks, it gives you the right to terminate the employment effective prior to that date unless it is with the employees agreement. Trying to bring it forward would be covered all of the listed dot points they've provided above.

            I've seen this in practice many, many times throughout my career.

            From the same page you've linked:
            "The last day of the employee’s employment is the last day of their notice period, unless this date is varied by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, or the employer terminates the employee’s employment during the notice period."

            For the employer to terminate the employment, they still require grounds as they would in any other circumstance. You can't actually treat the entire period of time between now and their final date as a "notice period" - and this is very clearly protected (and defined) in the relevant laws - you can only simply reject the resignation if you don't agree with their end date. Then, in either case, they can just opt to re-submit it anyway - there's really not much an employer can do.

            Basically, seen this happen many times - won't go well for the employer.

            • gromit on 26/11/2024 - 15:59

              @akashra: the key point you are overlooking is required notice, required notice is not what they put in as their notice, but the companies legal notice requirements, and in the OP's case that would be 4 weeks. grounds for shortening or walking them off the premise on the spot are many, from them joining a competitor to access to sensitive or protected information or they can't put them on new project work as they are leaving or just that they have no further work for them. this is literally standard practise in many enterprises and it has been tested many many times.

              • akashra on 26/11/2024 - 18:16

                @gromit: An employee providing more than the required notice period is not grounds for being permitted to shorten the notice period (nor terminate their employment) any time prior to the end date they've given in the letter of resignation. If you choose to walk an employee out - that is, without the agreement of the employee to finish up early, that is under the basis of two factors:
                1. You cannot do so without paying them out, including entitlement, up to the date they stipulated as their final date - which the employer are within their rights to demand be a length of time of the 'required notice', as you have pointed out and put it. That is normal.
                2. In order to do so, you would need to be doing so under the grounds that they are entitled to terminate the employees employment falling within all other protections of unfair dismissal.

                The only time you can walk an employee out so they finish up on a particular date is when
                a) You pay out the period of notice that the employee gave as the end date - ie, if they gave you six weeks notice, you can't just finish them up a date four weeks from now - you are required to pay out the six weeks and
                b) Any attempt to only pay out the four weeks would be classified as unfair dismissal as "they're going to a competitor" is not a valid reason to terminate an employees employment - you may only opt to pay them out in lieu up to the full period they've given (ie, six weeks).

                People here are conflating "omg they've said they're going to leave in six months time" with "that gives us the right to sack them straight away". No, that's not how it works.

                There is a big difference between deciding to let people finish up on the same day they give the normal notice period (usually four weeks in industries where this would be worthwhile), versus walking someone off the job prior - which is what you're talking about here. Yes - it's very common to have an employee resign, giving four weeks, and have the company turn around and say "you can finish up today, we'll just pay you out". What they can't do is say you give them six or eight weeks, they can't say "actually no, we're only going to give you four weeks, and you finish today" - that's unfair dismissal. They can, however, pay them the six or eight weeks. Big difference.

                I had that very situation back in 2009? I basically told them I intended to finish up in 10 weeks, and they opted to pay me out the 10 weeks instead.

        • TightAl on 25/11/2024 - 00:20
          -1

          Lol you are so adamant about being wrong

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join