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Canon EOS R50 Camera with RF-S 18-45mm $944 + Delivery ($0 C&C/ In-Store) + $100 Cashback + 10% Back in HN GCs @ Harvey Norman

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Canon EOS R50 Camera with RF-S 18-45mm $944 + Delivery ($0 C&C/ In-Store) + $100 Cashback + 10% Back in HN GCs @ Harvey Norman

Go to Deal

Edyolo on 15/11/2024 - 22:48 harveynorman.com.au (672 clicks)
Last edited 15/11/2024 - 23:31 by 1 other user

The cheapest way to get this camera so far? ATL? One of the lightest mirrorless cameras at a record low price.

The discounted price is $944.

Canon offers $100 cashback via redemption.

You get 10% of $944 = $94.40 back in the form of a bonus Harvey Norman gift card. The bonus gift card expires one month from date of issue. Perfect to get a spare battery/lense memory card or carry bag for the camera.

If you use Macquarie Bank, you can save another 4% off $944 by buying discounted Harvey Norman gift cards.

The lowest you pay for this camera is $711.84.

Also very cheap for other Canon cameras like R100

Electrical & Electronics Camera Canon DSLR

17 Nov 11:59pm

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Harvey Norman

Canon Australia

Comments

WasBargain on 16/11/2024 - 02:19

+1

Would this be alright for someone who hasn't updated their camera from a 600D from over a decade ago? 😅
- besttechadvisor on 16/11/2024 - 05:42
  
  +2
  
  Yes, this a great step up.
  
  I started on a 550D about 15 years ago and now use an R8. It's amazing how much cameras have improved in that time.
  - Eriadnile on 16/11/2024 - 09:46
    
    +1
    
    Second this. These mirrorless cameras are next level in comparison to the DSLRs, I've used 1100d, 550d, 7d, all the 5d series over the years but stopped photography and then picked up a mirrorless… The autofocus and subject tracking is no gimmick, gone are the days of having 9 focus points and having to focus-recompose.
    The lenses now are also amazing, even the "cheaper" ones are sharp and quick to focus.
    
    Camera technology has exploded in the last few years, which makes photography even more enjoyable now since I'm no longer having to worry about all the technical shortcomings DSLRs had, like autofocus, ISO noise levels, correct exposure and white balance, I can just focus on capturing the moment.
- BlueGlowOne on 16/11/2024 - 11:47
  
  +3
  
  Canon 600D is still a good camera. If you are taking stills only, it can be seen as quite competitive for casual to enthusiast photographers on a budget due to the incredible access to new and used EF and EF-S first and third party lens on the market - something the RF and RF-S range missed out on. Stills photography improvement slowed down after the DIGIC 5+ image processors compared to previous generations whereas video went to the stratosphere.
  
  When modern mirrorless shines brightly is video or critical shots as it will give you an edge with faster and more accurate autofocusing and modern lens. I have taken in the past a similar Canon 100D and larger full frame Canon 6D and older mirrorless cameras to sports and air shows and it pushes the skill limit and leaves little room for error whereas on the more expensive, higher end and recent cameras there is so much flexibility due to the previously mentioned features. Modern mirrorless lens have also benefited with better lens manufacturing processes and autofocus that sharpness wide open across the frame including corners and correction (strong light sources in frame, purple fringing) is also advantageous.
  
  I use a mish-mash of Canon DSLRs and Sony mirrorless and still gravitate towards the former for when I just want to have a fun and nostalgic experience whereas the Sony is more pure image quality and accuracy.
  
  If I was on a tight budget and taking stills only, I would stay with the Canon 600D and spend the dollars on the best lens possible, workshops and travel experiences. If mirrorless and on a budget, I would switch to Sony due to the cheaper mirrorless lens including the used first and third party market. If budget was not an issue I would likely get a Fuji X body for APS-C or a Canon or Sony body for full frame mirrorless.
  - mskeggs on 16/11/2024 - 11:54
    
    +1
    
    I agree with this, but will add modern camera image stabilization and better noise handling at high iso hugely improves low light photography, and I suppose high speed photography (though I don’t do that much).
    
    I wouldn’t drop $1000 on a new camera without a bit more investigation, especially as the cost of lenses is so high if you need to kit out a new mount.
  - besttechadvisor on 16/11/2024 - 12:46
    
    +1
    
    enthusiast photographers on a budget due to the incredible access to new and used EF and EF-S first and third party lens on the market - something the RF and RF-S range missed out on.
    
    This can be solved with an EF-RF converter for as little as $50.
    
    If I was on a tight budget and taking stills only, I would stay with the Canon 600D and spend the dollars on the best lens possible, workshops and travel experiences.
    
    Once you have a certain level of gear, I agree with you that spending money on travel and experience rather than more gear is the way to go.
    
    For me, that "certain level of gear" starts with a mirrorless camera.
    
    Mirrorless cameras are simply that much better, in my opinion. Especially as a beginner, you'll miss so many opportunities with the seemingly ancient autofocus system of DSLRs.
    
    If money is so tight that springing a few hundred dollars extra for a mirrorless camera is out of one's budget, then they'll be a lot more disappointed when they spend hundreds on flights to Cairns, get home from shooting a cassowary, then realise none of their photos are sharp.
    
    The only way I'd be buying a DSLR these days is if it's literally all I can afford, in which case I'm not going to be spending money on travel or workshops.
    
    Or if I were just testing out if the hobby was for me. To that person, I'd recommend a 7DII, 6D, 5DIII+ series body and a 50mm 1.8 to start very cheaply. Semi-pro DSLR bodies are so cheap these days I wouldn't even look at something like a 600D unless I was buying for a child.
    
    Then either trade up to an EOS R body with an EF-RF adapter, or simply add more lenses until you're committed to the hobby.
    
    As soon as you're committed to the hobby, trade up to a mirrorless.
    - dukeGR4 on 16/11/2024 - 15:34
      
      If money is so tight that springing a few hundred dollars extra for a mirrorless camera is out of one's budget, then they'll be a lot more disappointed when they spend hundreds on flights to Cairns, get home from shooting a cassowary, then realise none of their photos are sharp.
      
      That is skill issue and not gear issue. matter of fact, to miss focus on relatively still subject does take some skill. And surely you would have noticed that they were out of focus through photo preview.
      
      regarding AF - FYI, Canon and Nikon both adopted ultrasonic motor very liberally across the range back in the DSLR days. they were quicker than modern day stepper motor equipped lenses and more suitable for extremely fast-moving subject. needless to say, still subject will be a walk in the park.
      
      i noticed they were also quieter compared to stepper motor and when they do have to hunt they don't do that stupid jerking thing a lot of modern lenses do (i'm looking at you Fujifilm).
      
      People form negative opinions about DSLR's AF because all they think about is their screw/gear driven kit lens and what not, but truth to be told, if you're willing to splurge a bit more for USM/SSM equipped lenses they're far quicker than any cheap-ish mirrorless lenses.
      - besttechadvisor on 16/11/2024 - 16:59
        
        @dukeGR4:
        
        That is skill issue and not gear issue.
        
        It's both.
        
        Good skill can compensate for poor quality gear, but good quality gear can compensate for poor skill, too. No, not in all areas, but definitely when it comes to autofocus.
        
        So, we need to look at who we're talking about, and we're talking about beginners. So, like I said, beginners who are going to be spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on travel should really spend a little more to get a much better camera.
        
        While you will be learning every time you go on a photography trip, you really don't want to be bogged down by your lack of focusing skill, something that took me years to hone and is largely irrelevant now that I have a mirrorless camera and never manual focus dynamic scenes.
        
        surely you would have noticed that they were out of focus through photo preview.
        
        Professionals would notice, but we're talking about beginners. Beginners would only notice on their tiny 3" screen (600D) if it's completely missed focus, or if they're reviewing photos and zooming in. If they're reviewing photos, that valuable times takes away from the moment and reduces your opportunities when shooting dynamic scenes, such as wildlife.
        
        Canon and Nikon both adopted ultrasonic motor very liberally across the range back in the DSLR days. they were quicker than modern day stepper motor equipped lenses and more suitable for extremely fast-moving subject
        
        USM vs STM seems irrelevant to DSLR vs Mirrorless. You can get USM and STM on both formats, and you can adapt almost all Canon EF lenses to RF. USM is generally better for stills, STM generally better for video.
        
        I noticed [USM] were also quieter compared to [STM] and when they do have to hunt they don't do that stupid jerking thing a lot of modern lenses do
        
        USM is quieter than STM? I think your STM lens was broken… Either that or your comparison is of cheap kit STM glass against professional USM glass. STM should be quieter than USM, which is one of the reasons it's better for video.
        
        People form negative opinions about DSLR's AF because all they think about is their screw/gear driven kit lens and what not, but truth to be told, if you're willing to splurge a bit more for USM/SSM equipped lenses they're far quicker than any cheap-ish mirrorless lenses.
        
        Glass is most important, yes, but using that as a reason for buying DSLR is non sequitur. You should be comparing various bodies with the same quality glass. Especially since good quality glass is going to cost you a lot more an R50 (comparing new to new / used to used). Compare an R50 and a 600D, both with an EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM (and R50 with an EF-RF adaptor, obviously). The R50 is going to blow the 600D away every time. It won't even be close.
        
        More importantly, all the best new glass is being made for mirrorless anyway. Therefore, what is the point saying "DSLR's with great glass are better than mirrorless with poor glass" when what's now considered "great glass" doesn't work on DSLR's? If you want to use the best glass, you need to use mirrorless.
        
        Canon & Nikon doesn't make DSLR's anymore for a reason, and this conversation feels very "you can type faster on a blackberry than an iPhone".
syousef on 16/11/2024 - 18:30

-1

Counterpoint: Lots of people dumping "old" DSLRs and expensive gear needlessly. It depends on what you're shooting. An R50 is not going to beat an older mid- or high- end camera for sports/action/wildlife. Look at the quality of images being captured with a 600D for airshow photography vs the R50. I think you'd want to step up in the lineup to rely on that AF for fast moving subjects - an R6 would be my minimum I think.
- dukeGR4 on 17/11/2024 - 08:48
  
  -1
  
  Counterpoint: Lots of people dumping "old" DSLRs and expensive gear needlessly. It depends on what you're shooting. An R50 is not going to beat an older mid- or high- end camera for sports/action/wildlife. Look at the quality of images being captured with a 600D for airshow photography vs the R50. I think you'd want to step up in the lineup to rely on that AF for fast moving subjects - an R6 would be my minimum I think.
  
  yeap, and the true ozbargainer should always pick whichever's the cheapest and offers the most value. I would advise against 600D having said that, but something more substantial (and full frame) like the 6Dii or 5Diii. D700 is worth considering too despite the 12MP sensor. Saw one being sold for 400 on marketplace in mint condition lol.
- besttechadvisor on 17/11/2024 - 09:41
  
  -1
  
  You'd be surprised.
  
  I'd pick an R50 over a 7DII and maybe even a full-frame 5DIII. But I'd definitely pick a full-frame R over a 5DIII.
  - syousef on 17/11/2024 - 21:35
    
    -1
    
    I had trouble finding any galleries shot at an airshow with an R50 at all and none that looked better than snapshots.
    - besttechadvisor on 18/11/2024 - 09:42
      
      -1
      
      People who previously bought the 7DII would've paid circa $2,500+ for it. The equivalent in the EOS R series would be the R7, the best of the crop sensors.
      
      https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R7-vs-Canon-EOS…
      
      That doesn't mean the R50 doesn't outperform the 7DII, because it does, it just means people who previously would've bought the 7DII new will usually buy the mirrorless equivalent, which isn't the R50.
      
      https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R50-vs-Canon-EO…
      - syousef on 18/11/2024 - 16:03
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Outperform for what? The R50 doesn't even have subject tracking suitable for planes. It's Vehicle Detection subject focus is described as
        
        "Detects two- or four-wheeled motorsports vehicles and people and prioritizes detection results for vehicles as the main subjects to track."
        
        https://cam.start.canon/en/C011/manual/html/UG-06_AF-Drive_0…
        
        Does that mean it will never shoot a plane in focus? No. But it does mean that the camera will be fighting you trying to focus on other things.
        
        Blindly jumping on the mirrorless bandwagon without actually considering the capabilities of the camera is a recipe for failure and disappointment. Buy the camera that does the job you want.
        
        besttechadvisor on 19/11/2024 - 13:27
        
        -1
        
        @syousef:
        
        The R50 doesn't even have subject tracking suitable for planes. It's Vehicle Detection subject focus is described as "Detects two- or four-wheeled motorsports vehicles and people and prioritizes detection results for vehicles as the main subjects to track."
        
        It'll still track planes fine, Canon's just covering their arse by specifying wheeled vehicles. Before I dumped my 5DIII I bought an RP to trial mirrorless. Even the very basic RP well outperformed the 5DIII at Riverfire that year. The R8 outperforms both by a long way. It's just no comparison…
        
        Does that mean it will never shoot a plane in focus? No. But it does mean that the camera will be fighting you trying to focus on other things.
        
        No, it doesn't…
        
        Blindly jumping on the mirrorless bandwagon without actually considering the capabilities of the camera is a recipe for failure and disappointment. Buy the camera that does the job you want.
        
        I considered the capabilities and provided links to comparisons between specific models. R50's better.
        
        The DSLR vs Mirrorless war is over. Mirrorless decisively won. Even an entry-level R50 will outperform a professional 7DII's autofocus.
        
        The only reason I'd recommend a 7DII over an R50 is because of reasons totally unrelated to the format. i.e. 7DII has professional build quality, second card slot, etc, and you'd probably only care about those things if you're a professional, in which case you're probably forking out for an R7, R6, R5, etc anyway.
        
        syousef on 19/11/2024 - 22:28
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: The DSLR vs Mirrorless war never happened. It's actually the phones that won and casual family holiday snappers that lost. Better tech isn't the determinant when it comes to the winning format. Ask anyone who bought a Betamax recorder or a Laserdisc.
        
        I'm a Nikon shooter but one Christmas when I was toying with the idea of trying Canon my wife suprised me with a 600D she picked up for $400 at Big W. Show me a mirrorless camera you can say that about. It's ok to be enthusiastic about your favourite tech, but your glee here is on the nose. The hobby has shrunk as prices have soared.
        
        …and I still haven't seen anything from the R50 that's wowed me when it comes to fast moving subjects. Plenty of gallteries with similarly priced DSLRs…granted they've had longer to accumulate those photos.
        
        besttechadvisor on 20/11/2024 - 07:27
        
        -1
        
        @syousef:
        
        The DSLR vs Mirrorless war never happened.
        
        Yes, it did: https://petapixel.com/2023/04/20/sony-tricked-dslr-makers-in…
        
        Better tech isn't the determinant when it comes to the winning format. Ask anyone who bought a Betamax recorder or a Laserdisc.
        
        The best tech doesn't always win the most sales, but it usually does, and it did in this case. The major manufacturers have all divested from DSLRs, mirrorless tech is better in ever way, everyone's buying mirrorless. It really is that simple.
        
        It's like you're arguing that mobiles should have keyboards when iPhone. Sorry, Blackberry lost.
        
        Mobiles are better without physical keyboards, cameras are better without mirrors.
        
        I'm a Nikon shooter but one Christmas when I was toying with the idea of trying Canon my wife suprised me with a 600D she picked up for $400 at Big W.
        
        Was this a decade ago?
        
        Show me a mirrorless camera you can say that about.
        
        Accounting for inflation, the AUD is nearly half of what it used to be, that you got that 600D really cheap on clearance or something (my 550D cost me $500 USED in 2010), then the Canon R100 is priced equivalent.
        
        Obviously you can get 600D's cheaper than R50's on the used market now, but you can also get M5's, M6's, etc at bargain prices.
        
        If you're willing to spend just a few hundred dollars, there is a used mirrorless camera for you that outperforms similarly priced DSLRs.
        
        …and I still haven't seen anything from the R50 that's wowed me when it comes to fast moving subjects. Plenty of gallteries with similarly priced DSLRs…granted they've had longer to accumulate those photos.
        
        You're not going to see many pro shots out of budget cameras simply because pros are still going to buy what their pro budget can afford.
        
        That doesn't mean a pro won't do a better job with an R50 than they would with a 600D if that's all they had access to. They would 100% do better with an R50. It just means that pros aren't picking R50's over R5's.
        
        syousef on 20/11/2024 - 14:34
        
        @besttechadvisor: Oh come on, you know inflation doesn't account for it all. Are you really going to chide me for scoring bargains on a bargain site?
        
        Here's what I got when I looked it up on the first calculator I hit.
        "Goods and services valued at $400 in calendar year 2014, would in calendar year 2023 cost $506.91.
        Total change in cost is 26.7 per cent, over 9 years, at an average annual inflation rate of 2.7 per cent."
        https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualDecimal.html
        
        Let's call that conservative. it's still not going to be anywhere near double, eh champ?
        
        Yes that $400 600D was a bargain my wife found around a decade ago. $494 and a $100 Canon cashback to be exact, so actually $394 and that was for the single lens kit so it included an 18-55. That would still be just under $500 according to those figures.
        
        How about Canon EOS 700D with a 18-135mm STM Lens for $888 and the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM for $248 all with a $300 "double cashback" from Digidirect which I got soon after. Or the 50mm 1.8 for $168 from The Good Guys.
        
        Do I need to pull up more receipts? I'm far from the best bargain hunter here.
        
        Back in the days when Americans called the standard 50mm 1.8 the "nifty fifty" and you could pick it up for under USD100 there. The fact is you use to be able to pick up a twin lens kit and maybe a prime and a flash to shoot everything from kids sports, motorsports to astro to landscape to experimenting with on camera flash for around AUD1000-AUD1500 with entry level gear, even with the 'stray tax. Cheap enough that I ended up being a twin system guy. Cheap enough that a parent going on holiday could afford gear to play with when the family were doing other things or when they would let themselves be photographed. Inflation doesn't account for the huge jumps in price.You're not seeing many casuals get into the hobby now and when they do, more often than not, they pick a smart phone. You can argue with me till you go blue but that is what has happened. Can you go to BIGW and pick up a cheap R, nevermind the R50 on sale?
        
        And now you're talking about pros using R50 cameras? Yes, sure, skill, knowledge and experience trump gear, but what pro's going to use the wrong tool for just about every job he knows well? There aren't going to be many pros with an R50 even as a backup. Perhaps those starting out or struggling. Your statement has nothing to do with anything we were discussing. Nothing replaces skilli and experience, but getting worse gear isn't going to make you better.
        
        People like you don't listen and have already made up your minds and any actual argument based on reality will be deflected or excused. I'm sorry but I'm really not interested in continuing to talk to someone who isn't listening. So I'm not even sure I'll read the next outrageous rant you reply with.
        
        syousef on 20/11/2024 - 17:44
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Matybe you can argue again Google's AI instead.
        
        AI Overview
        Learn more
        …
        Some say the Canon EOS R50 is a good camera for beginners, but others have noted some drawbacks, including:
        Size: The R50's small size can make it easy to accidentally press buttons on the shoulder and back.
        Overheating: The R50 can overheat, which can be a problem for video production.
        Limited 4K video: The R50 can't shoot 4K at 60 frames per second, which is a standard for some types of production.
        Poor battery life: The R50's battery life for video is poor.
        Rolling shutter effect: The R50 can have a rolling shutter effect when panning the camera in 4K.
        Limited lens range: The R50 has a limited RF-S lens range and requires an adapter for external flash.
        Poor creative mode: The R50's creative mode A+ mode has poor focus stacking results.
        No log color profiles: The R50 doesn't shoot in any of Canon's log color profiles, which can limit dynamic range and color correction.
        However, others say the R50 has great image quality and sufficient dynamic range for many situations. It also has dual pixel autofocus that can detect eyes, animals, and vehicles.
        
        besttechadvisor on 20/11/2024 - 20:07
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: Even AI can't make a good argument for you 😂
        
        syousef on 20/11/2024 - 20:23
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: At this point you're just trolling. If you can't appreciate the negatives listed above, you're beyond help.
        
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/173515
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/169606 - Canon EOS 600DTKIS 18MP Digital SLR Camera (Twin Lens Kit): $533.25 after $100 Cash-back
        
        Go on, show me the mirrorless twin lens kit deal for <$700
        
        Even with the advances and differences you would see pixel peeping, at the size you usually view them airshow photography galleries for the 600D are about the same or better than the R50. What was that you were saying about better skill beating better gear? Were you making my point for me?
        
        https://www.flickr.com/search/?group_id=1585831%40N24&view_a… - Lots of good airshow pics with the 600D in just one group
        https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=plane&cm=canon%2Feos_r50&sa… - almost nothing looking across all photos tagged as being taken with an R50
        
        Gee I wonder why people aren't taking up photography.
        
        Go on, please also dismiss that as also being "not a good argument" because you basically have nothing to counter with.
        
        besttechadvisor on 20/11/2024 - 22:23
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: I'm trolling? You asked AI to make a bad argument for you.
        
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/173515
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/169606
        
        That was in 2014 when AUD was at parity with the USD. Those prices were also sooo cheap because the 600D was discontinued two years earlier, in 2012. They were clearing the obsolete 600D a decade ago!
        
        Here is the R100 for $749 + RF-S 18-45mm Lens + $100 Amazon Credit. That was just a few months ago when the AUD was fetching 0.65 USD. But experienced photographers know that you never buy kit lenses. They're rubbish.
        
        Size: The R50's small size can make it easy to accidentally press buttons on the shoulder and back.
        
        You're buying a compact camera. You don't complain that a compact camera is too small. The 600D is heavier, which is typically seen as a negative.
        
        Overheating: The R50 can overheat, which can be a problem for video production.
        
        The 600D will never overheat because it's not capable of the power-intensive features that the R50 is, such as shooting in 4K.
        
        That's like saying some $4k home built gaming PC is bad because it overheats but your old Chromebook is great because it doesn't.
        
        Limited 4K video: The R50 can't shoot 4K at 60 frames per second, which is a standard for some types of production.
        
        The 600D can neither shoot in 4K at 30fps nor 60fps at 1080p. It maxes out at 1080p 30fps or 720p 60fps!
        
        Poor battery life: The R50's battery life for video is poor.
        
        This is the one area that I concede DSLR's outperform Mirrorless as you need to power the viewfinder. That being said, the battery chemistry is better in newer cameras.
        
        It's also similar to saying that Nokia's last for days and are therefore better than smartphones. Sure, if you want to trade a lot of performance for a bit of battery, go ahead. Otherwise, just carry a spare battery. You can also charge your mirrorless via a battery pack, something I don't think any Canon DSLRs were capable of.
        
        Rolling shutter effect: The R50 can have a rolling shutter effect when panning the camera in 4K.
        
        Again, 600D wishes it had rolling shutter in 4K.
        
        Limited lens range: The R50 has a limited RF-S lens range and requires an adapter for external flash
        
        This one's simply incorrect. The R50 not only has access to RF-S lenses, but it also has access to RF lenses, and all the lenses (EF-S + EF) that the 600D has access to via an affordable EF-RF adapter. The 600D has a much more limited range of available lenses. What a silly point to bring up…
        
        Poor creative mode: The R50's creative mode A+ mode has poor focus stacking results.
        
        Why would you focus stack in A+? Either way, you've just brought up another feature that the 600D doesn't even have.
        
        No log color profiles: The R50 doesn't shoot in any of Canon's log color profiles, which can limit dynamic range and color correction.
        
        CLOG didn't even exist when the 600D was released. The 5D IV and 1D X III were the only DSLRs to even receive CLOG. Yet another really strange point to bring up which shows you don't know what you're talking about…
        
        However, others say the R50 has great image quality and sufficient dynamic range for many situations. It also has dual pixel autofocus that can detect eyes, animals, and vehicles.
        
        Exactly?
        
        There you go, I've argued against AI for you. Next time, come up with your own argument before accusing others of trolling.
        
        syousef on 21/11/2024 - 07:49
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor:
        
        That was in 2014 when AUD was at parity with the USD. Those prices were also sooo cheap because the 600D was discontinued two years earlier, in 2012. They were clearing the obsolete 600D a decade ago!
        
        Wow those goal posts are moving! I thought inflation was to blame
        
        AUD didn't have parity with USD since April 2013. By Dec 2014 it was at 0.85
        https://www.macrotrends.net/2551/australian-us-dollar-exchan…
        
        You're haullucinating more than the AI does.
        
        Sure there's a lag, but it's more like a month as manufacturers and retailers need to anticipate future costs.
        
        All cameras get discontinued. We didn't see similar deals on the Canon R. I haven't seen cashback deals like that in a decade.
        
        It doesn't matter WHY the cameras have become unaffordable.The point is they are unaffordable and no new features compensate for killing the hobby.
        
        You're buying a compact camera. You don't complain that a compact camera is too small. The 600D is heavier, which is typically seen as a negative.
        
        Of course you can complain that the tradeoff doesn't make sense. YOU were the one comparing the 600D to the R50 and talking up the R50. Not me. Now you can't compare.
        
        The 600D will never overheat because it's not capable of the power-intensive features that the R50 is, such as shooting in 4K.
        
        No cameras were shooting in 4K back then. You might as well tell me there were no fast cars in 1600.
        
        Many hobbyists don't need or want 4K because the storage and processing requirements are much higher than 1080p.
        
        The rest of your arguments are just as flawed and you're arguing in bad faith.
        - Better "chemistry"? Battery chemistry? Nope. Only change is slight improvement in effeciency.
        - "600D wishes it had rolling shutter in 4K." WHAT?
        - "Why would you focus stack in A+?" - what difference does it make if a camera offers a feature but it's done so poorly it's unusable?
        
        Stop wasting your time and mine.
        
        besttechadvisor on 21/11/2024 - 10:48
        
        -1
        
        @syousef:
        
        Wow those goal posts are moving! I thought inflation was to blame
        
        No goalposts have moved, exchange rate is just one of the reasons you're wrong. Inflation is another. Thanks for continually bringing up evidence for me.
        
        AUD didn't have parity with USD since April 2013. By Dec 2014 it was at 0.85 https://www.macrotrends.net/2551/australian-us-dollar-exchan…
        
        Yes, and the 600D was discontinued in 2012. Big W weren't buying them in December 2014, they were clearing them.
        
        According to the link you provided, the AUD reached 0.95 USD in 2014, pretty close to parity, and averaged 90c over the course of the year, with that average being brought down at the end of the year.
        
        The AUD was worth about 50% more when the 600D was being sold than it is now, before accounting for inflation.
        
        All cameras get discontinued. We didn't see similar deals on the Canon R.
        
        Because the 600D, and its replacement, were already obsolete tech. The Canon R was Canon's first full-frame camera, so it was still highly sought after. It was new tech.
        
        DPReview praised its innovative touchscreen, but also pointed out that with regard to auto-focussing in live view mode the 650D was "still far behind the better mirrorless models we have seen from the likes of Panasonic and Olympus as well as rival Nikon's 1 series".
        
        The most refined DSLR's struggled to compete with the earliest Mirrorless…
        
        I haven't seen cashback deals like that in a decade.
        
        Canon does cashback deals all the time?
        
        It doesn't matter WHY the cameras have become unaffordable. The point is they are unaffordable and no new features compensate for killing the hobby.
        
        It 100% matters why "cameras have become unaffordable" when you're arguing that things used to be cheaper. You need to account for inflation, exchange rates, etc.
        
        Holden Commodores were about $35k back in the days of the 600D. If the Commodore were even made anymore, it would not cost $35k.
        
        Also, as you've already mentioned (may have been someone else) the quality of smartphone cameras have increased a lot, eroding the lowest end of the camera market. Don't forget action cameras, too.
        
        It's better to compare the high-end of the market. The 5D IV (2016) was AUD $6k at release while the R5 (2020) was AUD $7k. A 16% price increase for brand new tech, over a time period where the AUD lost 8% of its value. Cameras have not become "unaffordable".
        
        Of course you can complain that the tradeoff doesn't make sense.
        
        It does make sense that compact cameras are compact… There is no tradeoff, you're getting what you're buying.
        
        It's like buying an EV then complaining it has no engine noise. Yes, you knew that when you bought a car without an engine. That's a feature, not a bug.
        
        YOU were the one comparing the 600D to the R50 and talking up the R50. Not me.
        
        Actually, you were the one who started this comment thread and brought up the 600D on this deal for the R50.
        
        No cameras were shooting in 4K back then. You might as well tell me there were no fast cars in 1600.
        
        But that's the whole point! The 600D is obsolete!
        
        Many hobbyists don't need or want 4K because the storage and processing requirements are much higher than 1080p.
        
        Great, you don't have to use it. In fact, you don't have the option to use it on your 600D. The reason I brought up 4K was because you said that R50 can get hot. Yeah, it can, if it's doing something the 600D couldn't dream of.
        
        The rest of your arguments are just as flawed and you're arguing in bad faith.
        
        They're neither flawed, nor in bad faith, you just can't argue against them. You were arguing in bad faith, if you consider it arguing at all. You asked AI to do it for you. You just threw out a bunch of nonsense and hoped some of it would stick. I see you've dropped the points about CLOG, lens availability, etc.
        
        Go post your arguments on the Canon Rumours forum and see how they laugh you out of there.
        
        Better "chemistry"? Battery chemistry? Nope. Only change is slight improvement in effeciency.
        
        Battery chemistry has come a long way in the past decade, even within the same types of batteries (li-ion in this case). Just ask anyone who cares about EV's. Even putting that to the side, there are other features in the new batteries, such as tracking charge cycles and wear, more accurate info to the camera, etc.
        
        "600D wishes it had rolling shutter in 4K." WHAT?
        
        Yes, the 600D wished it could even complain about rolling shutter in 4K. It can't, because it can't do 4K.
        
        "Why would you focus stack in A+?" - what difference does it make if a camera offers a feature but it's done so poorly it's unusable?
        
        First of all, focus bracketing in the R50 is not unusable by any stretch, it's just not great in A+. It can still do it.
        
        Either way, you're nitpicking lame (or simply incorrect) reasons for the R50 being a worse device than the 600D. How can you say "the 600D is better than the R50 because the R50's focus stacking in A+ mode is poor and the 600D doesn't offer any focus stacking anywhere at all."? It's such a ridiculous thing to claim.
        
        syousef on 22/11/2024 - 09:37
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor:
        
        No goalposts have moved, exchange rate is just one of the reasons you're wrong. Inflation is another. Thanks for continually bringing up evidence for me.
        
        It's not "evidence for you" when you continually blame everything on one thing, then shift to another thing, then another. You didn't bring up a list of reasons. First you blamed it all on inflation. So I debunk your "inflation doubled prices" nonsense. Then you explain it away with the exchange rate. So I debunk that. And you move on to antoher. Then you say it's a combination, so yes shifting goal posts….all while completely ignoring my point that IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY PRICES HAVE GONE UP. It only matters that they have. The reason why sales of MILC are down compared to the DSLR peak is irrelevant.
        
        I've actually got much better things to do today than tangle with a troll. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter what evidence I put forward, you'll just throw up inaccurate nonsense, and when I debunk it you'll dance around and claim victory. Are you proud of yourself?
        
        besttechadvisor on 22/11/2024 - 11:15
        
        @syousef:
        
        First you blamed it all on inflation. So I debunk your "inflation doubled prices" nonsense.
        
        I never blamed the price rise entirely on inflation, it's just one of the reasons I brought up. You also didn't debunk anything.
        
        Then you explain it away with the exchange rate. So I debunk that.
        
        LOL, where did you do this debunking? When you said that the AUD was worth 20c more than it is today, at the end of 2014, for a 2012 device? Is that your 'debunking'?
        
        And you move on to antoher. Then you say it's a combination, so yes shifting goal posts…
        
        Having lots of evidence isn't moving goal posts, it's just having a great argument.
        
        all while completely ignoring my point that IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY PRICES HAVE GONE UP. It only matters that they have.
        
        But they haven't in real terms. That's like saying that cars have gone up in cost from $1,500 in 1950.
        
        The reason why sales of MILC are down compared to the DSLR peak is irrelevant.
        
        No, it's not. You're trying to blame everything on price when there are lots of factors such as GoPro's, DJI, and improving smartphones.
        
        I've actually got much better things to do today than tangle with a troll.
        
        You're the troll, using AI to make bad arguments for you.
        
        As I said earlier, it doesn't matter what evidence I put forward, you'll just throw up inaccurate nonsense, and when I debunk it you'll dance around and claim victory. Are you proud of yourself?
        
        How is "The R50 sometimes overheats when it performs in a way the 600D can't, thus the 600D is better!" at all a logical argument at all? I'm the only one arguing in good faith. You didn't even know how to make an argument for the 600D over the R50 so you had to ask AI to do it for you and it backfired. I think anyone reading this thread should be able to see that.
        
        I'm not "proud of myself", I'm grateful for my critical thinking abilities.
        
        syousef on 22/11/2024 - 16:53
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor:
        
        I'm not "proud of myself", I'm grateful for my critical thinking abilities.
        
        You really shouldn't be.
        
        In our discussion alone you've demonstrated all kinds of broken logic - so much you could use your words as examples for a class on broken logic. It's all there from logical fallacies, to moving goal posts, exaggeration, straw men… and you strut around thinking you're doing brilliantly.
        
        You've ignored every point I've made and instead focused on nuances against the AI generated Google summary I pasted. Every time I catch you out making a mistake or saying something demonstrably false you ignore, or deflect or re-frame it to mean something different. This isn't good logic. It's the honesty of a politician. You're beyond any help I can give you. Enjoy your delusions and self-aggrandizing.
        
        besttechadvisor on 22/11/2024 - 17:39
        
        -1
        
        @syousef:
        
        You've ignored every point I've made and instead focused on nuances against the AI generated Google summary I pasted.
        
        I've addressed every point you've made down to nuances in the argument you had to rely on AI to make for you.
        
        Every time I catch you out making a mistake or saying something demonstrably false you ignore, or deflect or re-frame it to mean something different.
        
        What have I ignored? I'm more than happy to address any point you think I've missed. While we're at it, can you go back and address the points I've already pointed out that you ignored? See my comment above where I stated "I see you've dropped the points about CLOG, lens availability, etc."
        
        Enjoy your delusions
        
        My delusions? You said this:
        
        "Look at the quality of images being captured with a 600D for airshow photography vs the R50. I think you'd want to step up in the lineup to rely on that AF for fast moving subjects - an R6 would be my minimum I think."
        
        You think that someone needs, at minimum, to step-up to an R6? You're a hoot. Come join us at the Canon Collective, we'd love to have you there.
        
        syousef on 22/11/2024 - 23:01
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Extra ignored.
        
        syousef on 22/11/2024 - 23:01 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
        
        besttechadvisor on 22/11/2024 - 23:06
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: what was ignored?
        
        syousef on 23/11/2024 - 00:13
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Everything you said. I'm not even reading it any more. You have nothing to offer me and I have said all I care to.
        
        besttechadvisor on 23/11/2024 - 00:45
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: it definitely doesn't seem that you've ignored everything I've said, nor does it seem like you had said all that you cared to. I even bet you'll say something else 😎
        
        syousef on 23/11/2024 - 06:58
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: You're not even good at trolling. Leave me alone, dude. Find something constructive to do.
        
        besttechadvisor on 23/11/2024 - 09:56
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: Thanks for coming back again. I've been constructive, advising on cameras. If you or anyone else needs help, don't hesitate to send me a DM. Also, genuinely feel free to come to a Canon Collective meet. They're not quite like what they were pre-covid, but you'll still get a lot out of it. You join our Facebook Group.
        
        syousef on 23/11/2024 - 17:13
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Yes you've been constructive and are a brilliant logician. Sure, sure, champ. If you're part of the Canon Collective,that's enough reason for me to stay away. Do you really not even comprehend "Leave me alone."?
        
        besttechadvisor on 23/11/2024 - 19:05
        
        -1
        
        @syousef:
        
        I'm not even reading it any more [sic] … and I have said all I care to.
        
        I comprehended when you said this. You still read what I said then said more. So, there is what I comprehend, then there is what you really mean.
        
        But if you don't want to continue, I respect that and this will be my last comment.
        
        But, if I have comprehended you correctly again, and yet you really want to continue, just reply and we can keep the conversation going.
        
        Either way, I'm happy 🙂
        
        Every time I catch you out making a mistake … you ignore
        
        I also comprehend the above, that's why I offered to "address any point you think I've missed", which is constructive.
        
        I also pointed out some things (CLOG, lens availability, et cetera) for you to look back over.
        
        There are places other than the Canon Collective that will help you make the most out of your 600D and can guide you to better understanding the improvements of mirrorless over DSLR, such as Focus Photography Australia. if you're in Sydney or Melbourne.
        
        syousef on 25/11/2024 - 16:08
        
        -1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Of course you're happy. You enjoy harassing and trolling while pretending to be constructive.
        
        LEAVE ME ALONE!!! I have now reported you.
        
        besttechadvisor on 25/11/2024 - 23:19
        
        -1
        
        @syousef: How am I harassing? As I said, I'm happy to stop replying if you stop replying. If you keep replying then I'm happy to keep replying. Either way I'm happy, but you're choosing to continue this…
        
        I see your report has resulted in your own comment being flagged as off-topic.
        
        syousef on 26/11/2024 - 00:10
        
        @besttechadvisor: Ok, you want to tango and the mods don't want to step in? Well then, let's go. Let's just see who's got more stamina.
        
        Holden Commodores were about $35k back in the days of the 600D. If the Commodore were even made anymore, it would not cost $35k.
        
        Irrelevant speculation. But regardless less young people are able to afford cars. They've already been completely priced out of housing. Maybe you're going to claim cars and housing are obsolete and living on the street is better because it's new?
        
        It 100% matters why "cameras have become unaffordable" when you're arguing that things used to be cheaper. You need to account for inflation, exchange rates, etc.
        
        No it doesn't matter why the hobby is dying if your whole point is that the hobby is dying. One of the many points I've made repeatedly that you have ignored. You can give every reason or excuse you want but in the end what matters is the hobby is shrinking.
        
        Also, as you've already mentioned (may have been someone else) the quality of smartphone cameras have increased a lot, eroding the lowest end of the camera market. Don't forget action cameras, too.
        
        Action cameras were a passing fad. Most people don't regularly do adventure sports, but aspired to it. Once people realized that the fad died.
        
        It's better to compare the high-end of the market. The 5D IV (2016) was AUD $6k at release while the R5 (2020) was AUD $7k. A 16% price increase for brand new tech, over a time period where the AUD lost 8% of its value. Cameras have not become "unaffordable".
        
        It's better for you to make pointless arguments, maybe. Comparing yesterday's mid-range pro camera to today's entry level is ridiculous on its face. The entry level camera isn't as capable in a lot of areas such as shooting sports. Despite your ramblings no pro in their right mind is picking the R50 to go out and shoot Olympic sports or motorsports or an airshow. Technology moving forward sometimes brings SOME previously pro features to lower bodies but not all of them. Have you ever heard of a pro photographer ditching their gear for 10 year newer entry level gear? Of course not. What you're saying is ridiculous.
        
        It does make sense that compact cameras are compact… There is no tradeoff, you're getting what you're buying.
        
        The tradeoff is irrelevant if the camera doesn't do what you bought it to do. Compact but can't track fast moving action means you shouldn't buy the camera to shoot fast moving action.
        
        It's like buying an EV then complaining it has no engine noise. Yes, you knew that when you bought a car without an engine. That's a feature, not a bug.
        
        And yet they're legislating to put noise makers in the EVs to warn pedestrians of oncoming traffic, aren't they? Perhaps the issue is that the car you bought wasn't fit for the purpose you bought it for. Plenty of reviews of EV cars where the reviewer tried to prove it was good for long trips and got stuck or nearly so.
        
        Actually, you were the one who started this comment thread and brought up the 600D on this deal for the R50.
        
        Yes I said that you got a much more versatile and capable entry level camera back then and I stand by that. The R50 isn't taking significantly better images for sports and fast-moving wildlife. So you shouldn't be telling everyone to go buy an R50, cheerleading while having no idea what their needs are, and pretending that because the camera is newer the R50 does everything better, when clearly it doesn't.
        
        But that's the whole point! The 600D is obsolete!
        
        Wait, I thought earlier you were arguing that skill mattered much more than the equipment. Backflips as well as moving the goal posts huh? The 600D and DSLRs in general are cheaper and in some cases even are the better tool against newer mirrorless cameras. They can be had cheaply, and we have a decade of proof in the case of the 600D that it's capable in skilled hands.
        
        Battery chemistry has come a long way in the past decade, even within the same types of batteries (li-ion in this case). Just ask anyone who cares about EV's.
        
        No, I'm not going around asking strangers for pointless opinions. You made the assertion. Back it up. Prove that in cameras, the battery chemistry has significantly improved. If you can "ask anyone" you should be able to provide proof.
        
        Yes, the 600D wished it could even complain about rolling shutter in 4K. It can't, because it can't do 4K.
        
        Most hobbyists don't have a need for 4K. They don't have the storage space, and don't want to spend to buy it. They don't have the fast PC to edit 4K. But in any case, you never bought a Canon DSLR as a movie camera. That's a secondary function. If you want to shoot primarily 4K video you buy a video camera.
        
        First of all, focus bracketing in the R50 is not unusable by any stretch, it's just not great in A+. It can still do it.
        
        And I can buy a camera lens that will shoot at 800mm for $90. That doesn't mean it's a good choice. Nor does it mean that buying a quality long zoom lens for thousands of dollars is a waste. There is a difference between not great and "oh looks like you were shooting through a WW2 submarine porthole.
        
        Either way, you're nitpicking lame (or simply incorrect) reasons for the R50
        
        Such dishonest argument. It's not nitpicking when you're talking about poor image quality or out of focus images. It just suits you to minimize any issue you don't want to address.
        
        How is "The R50 sometimes overheats when it performs in a way the 600D can't, thus the 600D is better!" at all a logical argument at all?
        
        Well let's see. If your camera isn't operating because it's overheated, you can't take any kind of picture and you're going to miss what you're trying to shoot. Not very hard to understand, champ.
        
        I've addressed every point you've made down to nuances in the argument you had to rely on AI to make for you.
        
        No you haven't. You've minimized them, ignored them, called them nitpicking. But you haven't addressed them.
        
        But, if I have comprehended you correctly again, and yet you really want to continue, just reply and we can keep the conversation going.
        
        Yes. Congratulations on managing to misrepresent what I said and make so many straw men that you're difficult to ignore. Do you want a cookie?
        
        I also pointed out some things (CLOG, lens availability, et cetera) for you to look back over.
        
        Canon DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are primarily still picture cameras with a side capability of shooting video. It's like pointing out that I can't tow a caravan with a car I'm choosing, when I've told you I'm buying the car almost solely to commute to work. Bringing CLOG into this conversation as a reason for a beginner to choose a camera is beyond ridiculous.
        
        There are places other than the Canon Collective that will help you make the most out of your 600D and can guide you to better understanding the improvements of mirrorless over DSLR, such as Focus Photography Australia(facebook.com). if you're in Sydney or Melbourne.
        
        The arrogance is amazing. Pretending you want me to join a group so I can understand. While knowing nothing about my background in photography and clearly not having any interest in me learning. I'm guessing I've been on camera boards since before you could read. I understand the improvements and tradeoffs mirrorless cameras make. You are the one that doesn't seem to understand it's not all roses. You aren't the first self-aggrandizing know-it-all I've come across. You remind me of Ken Rockwell in the prime of his nonsense.
        
        I see your report has resulted in your own comment being flagged as off-topic.
        
        If that is off topic so is every reply you've made, so that's very clever.
        
        This board has a history of allowing this kind of thing to go on. It doesn't mean you're not being intentionally antagonistic.
        
        But you know what, if you're going to be like this, as I said, I'm going to change tack and not ask you to stop. In fact I'd say you should expect to dedicate a bit of time to harassing me each day because I'm not going away. Lets see who's got more stamina. You want to bully me into not responding? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

dukeGR4 on 16/11/2024 - 18:32

Professionals would notice, but we're talking about beginners. Beginners would only notice on their tiny 3" screen (600D) if it's completely missed focus, or if they're reviewing photos and zooming in. If they're reviewing photos, that valuable times takes away from the moment and reduces your opportunities when shooting dynamic scenes, such as wildlife.

a. they need to go to spec savers

/discussion

besttechadvisor on 16/11/2024 - 20:31

You might want to reply to my comment the next time you quote me then announce the discussion is over…

"Focus and recompose" is literally a method of focusing created to overcome the shortfalls of DSLRs, and it's infamous for making eyes out of focus as the plane of focus changes during recomposition.

https://digital-photography-school.com/the-problem-with-the-…

You're telling me that you can see on a 3" screen whether that dart board was in focus without zooming in to 100% like they had to in that article?

/discussion /s

dukeGR4 on 17/11/2024 - 08:41

i actually typed a lengthy reply, but figured it has the potential to go back and forth considering you shifted the goal post numerous times. what i'm trying to say is DSLRs do not have "ancient AF" as you have suggested.

firstly, you went from comparing ALL DSLR (saying they all have "ancient AF") to an entry level mirrorless to comparing a 600D with R50. but
you also completely ignored the fact that i mentioned USM is the superior technology for stills in terms of accurate AF. idk why you brought up the fact that RF has USM still when the point i was clearly making is that USM equipped DSLR lenses will beat any cheapo RF STM lenses (which most beginners will be stuck with). USM is not an "ancient tech". if it was an "Ancient tech" Canon would have stopped making lenses with USM.
Pick the right DSLR with the right lens for the right type of job. And surely as a photog you know that is true. USM/SSMs are bloody brilliant for stills. if you pick up say a 5Diii with a 35mm F1.4 L USM, it will destroy any bloody entry level mirrorless in terms of outright AF speed. And to beat that (but only in terms of optical quality), you will have to pick up an R5 or R6 with the latest RF 35L.
Another point about stepper motor tech, they vary a lot between individual lenses. Fujifilm for example is capable of making quiet and quick XF 23mm and 35mm F2 WR, but at the same time they also make l the Fuji XF 56mm F1.2. On Nikon side i have experience with the 50mm F1.8S and 24-70 F2.8S. The latter is near silent even tho the lens weighs almost 1kg with tons of elements but the former "clicks" when it hunts.

You're telling me that you can see on a 3" screen whether that dart board was in focus without zooming in to 100% like they had to in that article?

and thank god there's a zoom function on the 3'' screen. funnily enough i trusted my DSLRs fully as they never disappointed me in AF. Can't say the same for my 3 mirrorless bodies. no need to get so technical, missing focus is part of the process and could very well happen to any mirrorless. if you could miss focus on a cassowary on a DSLR you will damn well miss it on mirrorless as well.
and may i remind you - mirrorless AF is extremely finnicky to use. for all of my bodies I mapped the AF-point selection and mode mapped to 2 custom buttons. Whereas on the old 7D i had it's permanently stuck in auto mode lol, and it managed with only 19 AF points. i recently went through 2 years worth of photos (about 2k?), non of them were OOF. non. zero. bad composition yes, but all were in focus.

besttechadvisor on 17/11/2024 - 09:36

i actually typed a lengthy reply, but figured it has the potential to go back and forth considering you shifted the goal post numerous times.

I never shifted the goalposts even once, but at least you admit you avoided replying to me because you didn't want a back-and-forth.

what i'm trying to say is DSLRs do not have "ancient AF" as you have suggested.

DSLRs have severely outdated autofocus. No professional would disagree with me.

firstly, you went from comparing ALL DSLR (saying they all have "ancient AF") to an entry level mirrorless to comparing a 600D with R50. but

I'm still comparing all DSLRs to all mirrorless cameras when discussing AF in general, but I'm also addressing WasBargain's original comment:

"Would this be alright for someone who hasn't updated their camera from a 600D from over a decade ago? 😅"
- WasBargain

So, no, I didn't go from comparing all DSLRs to comparing entry-level models. We were comparing entry-level from the very first comment.

you also completely ignored the fact that i mentioned USM is the superior technology for stills in terms of accurate AF.

I didn't ignore it; I pointed out that it was irrelevant to the discussion: "USM vs STM seems irrelevant to DSLR vs Mirrorless. You can get USM and STM on both formats."

idk why you brought up the fact that RF has USM still when the point i was clearly making is that USM equipped DSLR lenses will beat any cheap RF STM lenses (which most beginners will be stuck with).

Because you're comparing crap DSLRs with the best glass to better mirrorless cameras hampered by crap glass to then claim, "See, DSLRs are better!" It's a nonsense comparison. Compare like for like. There's no reason a beginner with a mirrorless camera is unable to use USM any more than a beginner with a DSLR is able to use USM.

In fact, in addition to all the RF (mirrorless) lenses you have access to on an R50, you have access to all the EF (DSLR) lenses available to the 600D. The beginner with a mirrorless camera has more options, not fewer, than the DSLR user!

USM is not an "ancient tech". if it was an "Ancient tech" Canon would have stopped making lenses with USM.

I never said USM was ancient tech, so don't gaslight me. I said USM is available as RF, and you know that because you just said "idk why you brought up the fact that RF has USM."

If you pick up say a 5Diii with a 35mm F1.4 L USM, it will destroy any bloody entry level mirrorless in terms of outright AF speed. And to beat that (but only in terms of optical quality).

Again, you're comparing a top-of-the-line DSLR with top-of-the-line glass (also available to mirrorless, as I explained above) and pretending like it's a fair comparison.

you will have to pick up an R5 or R6 with the latest RF 35L.

For the 10th time, why would you need to pick up RF glass when you can just adapt EF? An R5 with a 35mm f/1.4 L USM will destroy a 5D III with the same lens. You don't need RF glass.

In fact, an EOS R (which you can now pick up cheaper than the R50, as the R50 is five years newer) will absolutely destroy the 5D III:
Canon EOS R vs Canon 5D Mark III - Camera Decision

Another point about stepper motor tech, they vary a lot between individual lenses.

I don't care about STM vs USM. It's an irrelevant debate. Horses for courses—you can have both on EF and RF mounts.

and thank god there's a zoom function on the 3'' screen.

Yes, but you don't want to have to use it constantly to check if your obsolescent 600D from 2011 has missed focus again.

no need to get so technical

There is a need to get technical because it's obvious that mirrorless cameras are better than DSLRs, especially when we're being technical.

There's no need to muddy the waters like you have been trying so hard to do.

missing focus is part of the process and could very well happen to any mirrorless.

Yes, you could miss focus on anything, but you're far more likely to miss focus on a DSLR. Let's look at that comparison between an entry-level EOS R and a professional 5D III DSLR:

Canon EOS R vs Canon 5D Mark III - Camera Decision

Feature	Canon EOS R	Canon 5D Mark III
Number of Focus Points	5,655	61
Continuous Shooting	8.0 fps	6.0 fps
Autofocus at f/8 Aperture	5,655 points	1 point
Eye Tracking Focus	Yes	No

And when dealing with the obvious limitations of a DSLR, as shown in the above table, you end up with problems such as this:
The Problem With the Focus and Recompose Method - Digital Photography School

and may i remind you - mirrorless AF is extremely finnicky to use

Sounds more and more like you're just an old-timer struggling with new tech…

Mirrorless autofocus is far more intuitive. Hand both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera to a complete newbie and get them to take a bunch of portraits and wildlife photos on each, and see which they miss focus on more often. After all, our discussion is focused on beginners.

i recently went through 2 years worth of photos (about 2k?), non of them were OOF. non. zero. bad composition yes, but all were in focus.

Focus-and-don't-recompose? 😂😂😂😂

WasBargain on 17/11/2024 - 22:42

@besttechadvisor: Damn, I only got around to reading all the replies of everyone just now. I have just over an hour to grab the R50. But half of today, I was hoping to find an EOS R for similar but the best I've found so far is $1,200.. 😪 Used with no glass, just the battery and body.

Edit: Because I realised there's not much time left, I had a quick look at other places selling the R50 and B&Hphoto have it for $749 at the moment without the need to finick with the $100 cashback.
- Edyolo on 17/11/2024 - 23:35
  
  +1
  
  @WasBargain: It’s $749 USD…
  - WasBargain on 18/11/2024 - 00:10
    
    @Edyolo: Ah, FML.. 😅
    
    Edit: Still available at this price but now no 10% back in HN gift cards so missed out on spare battery option or other bits. Ends up being $844 for me after Canon cashback.
    
    Still wondering if I should just get a near mint eos R for $1200 used and just use the glass from my 600D for now.. I'm a bit disappointed to hear the video isn't that great on the eos R's though. Sort of the same thing my 600D struggled with already at the time.
    
    Maybe I should just wait until BF sales?
    - besttechadvisor on 18/11/2024 - 09:30
      
      +1
      
      @WasBargain: There'll definitely be some sales for Canon on Black Friday. Is shooting video more important than stills? If so, most people would recommend Sony over Canon. If stills over video, then Canon. Both are good though, and you can adapt Canon EF to Sony E.
      
      What photography are you most interested in? The R50 is 5 years newer than the R, so it does have some benefits over the R (animal eye tracking, vehicle tracking, 15 vs 8fps, etc) that might make it better for specific situations (bird photography, motorsports photography, etc). The R is full-frame and will be better in low light, for portraits, etc.
      
      Keep a look out on the Polygon eBay store, there's often deals on there too.
      - WasBargain on 18/11/2024 - 14:01
        
        @besttechadvisor: Hey, thanks for your response and giving me things to consider.
        
        Ideally I'd love to have FF just for the low-light benefits whenever I'm just out anywhere I could just grab it and it be able to handle most situations without much noise. My issue is I don't splash out on glass so maybe there won't be as much of a difference considering the sensor size for my situation? The only glass I have is the original twin kit 18 - 55 and 55 - 250, I think) and a nifty 50 I got second hand.
        
        Also ideally is probably a camera that will handle video a lot better than my 600D atleast. So probably leaning more towards video, as I'd like to explore it more. I'd also had a Ronin SC sit for 4 years and not really had the inspiration to use it much with the 600D.
        
        Which Sony's can I also look at? I think about 5 years ago I saw some version of a A7 look really slick.
        
        Just to note aswell, the EOS R I had my eye on, turns out isn't in that great of a shape, slight scratch on screen, minor marks. Just a battery and what looks to be some peak design quick release loops but no strap, not even a lens cover for the body.. 😅 There's better condition ones (clear pictures) with the box and original accessories on eBay for about $100 more.
      - WasBargain on 19/11/2024 - 17:18
        
        @besttechadvisor: Bump @besttechadvisor! 😅 Appreciated your previous comment.
        
        besttechadvisor on 20/11/2024 - 07:58
        
        +1
        
        @WasBargain:
        
        Ideally I'd love to have FF just for the low-light benefits whenever I'm just out anywhere I could just grab it and it be able to handle most situations without much noise. My issue is I don't splash out on glass so maybe there won't be as much of a difference considering the sensor size for my situation? The only glass I have is the original twin kit 18 - 55 and 55 - 250, I think) and a nifty 50 I got second hand.
        
        People often forget that the cost of a full frame camera shows up much more in the lenses than in the camera body itself, so good job noticing that.
        
        If you're not wanting to splash out on lenses straight away, I recommend sticking with a crop for now. Remember, you can always fit full frame lenses (such as your 50mm) to your crop sensor and slowly add to your lens connection that way.
        
        Then, once you have a few good full frame lenses, sell all your crop gear and upgrade to a full frame body.
        
        Also ideally is probably a camera that will handle video a lot better than my 600D atleast. So probably leaning more towards video, as I'd like to explore it more. I'd also had a Ronin SC sit for 4 years and not really had the inspiration to use it much with the 600D.
        
        If you're wanting to use a gimbal, you want to get as lightweight as body as possible. The Canon M range of mirrorless cameras are very popular amongst videographers. They're also cheap as Canon have stopped making new ones, but you can still fit them with all of your EF and EF-S mount lenses with an adaptor.
        
        You can even get a 0.71x speed booster which gives you near full frame performance with your full frame lenses on your crop body.
        
        That will give somewhat of a "best of both worlds" experience.
        
        Which Sony's can I also look at? I think about 5 years ago I saw some version of a A7 look really slick.
        
        The A7 series are great. A7C's are crop while A7's are full frame. Obviously the IVs and Vs are newer than the IIIs, but they're all great cameras and are all a massive step up from a 600D.
        
        The best thing to do when buying a camera, in my opinion, is figure out what specs are your must-haves, then set a hard budget that you'll stick to, then buy the best camera you can within that budget and with those specs.
        
        WasBargain on 22/11/2024 - 18:37
        
        +1
        
        @besttechadvisor: Hey buddy, thanks again for your detailed reply.
        
        I only had time to reply now. And I only just saw the notification for your recommendation too.
        
        Waayyy outside my budget unfortunately..
        
        I will PM you in a few minutes though with the ones I have found to be of decent value.
        
        I was hoping you could quickly give your opinion on the top 2 or 3 to consider.
        
        Thanks mate!

Canon EOS R50 Camera with RF-S 18-45mm $944 + Delivery ($0 C&C/ In-Store) + $100 Cashback + 10% Back in HN GCs @ Harvey Norman

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