Can anybody help with info or links? My neighbour just bought something online by CC and it is obviously not the right size for her. She rang them and they say "Sorry, no returns on sale items. You can't get your money back."
Is this legal when the item is obviously unfit for the purpose it was bought? Or is there any other legality I can use to help her out?
TIA.
Thanks for reply. If you order a XL size which normally fits and it arrives looking more like a M and fits like an M it's probably an M and so is unfit for the purpose, no?
That would be misleading labeling I would think. Give it a go.
Unfortunately I cannot look at the site due to restrictions here at work but if they have a sizing chart with actual measurements of the garments on their website the only way that you would able to return the goods is if they do not meet these.
They can claim that a garment is any size and have measurements that reflect another but the onus is always on the customer to ensure that the item is fit for purpose. They wear no liability if all sizing information is available on their site.
I thought the law had recently changed on that, and retailers were now obliged to offer refunds on sale items, when previously they could get away with telling you to take a hike.
http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/shops-obliged-to-…
Found this, but any real life experience or information is welcome :
From here : http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/1023610
Since 1 January 2011, you have the right to ask for a repair, replacement or refund if goods and services you buy are not right.
Goods : You have these rights if goods you buy are: faulty, unsafe, look unacceptable, and do not do what they are supposed to do.
In each case this is according to what someone would normally expect for the type and cost of the particular goods.
You also have these rights if goods do not: fit the purpose, match the description provided, match the sample or demonstration model provided, have the extra qualities or performance that the seller promised before the sale.
From here : http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/961809#toc…
Sale items : The consumer guarantees apply whether you paid full price or bought goods on sale.
The point being is the communication here.
When they come back and say there is no refund on sale its that is correct, EXCEPT where it doesn't match the description or what was ordered.
Considering its hard for us to determine what the real issue is maybe the retailer misunderstands the complaint, and isnt replying to you or her correctly. That is they think you want to return it for change of mind or mistake on Her part, not theirs.
The ACCC site covers this pretty clearly in the links you refer to.
Sale items : The consumer guarantees apply whether you paid full price or bought goods on sale.
The point here is the Consumer Guarantee. It applies regardless of being on Sale.
But likewise being on Sale doesnt overide it for YOU or the Store. So it cant be taken on its own. However added to this is that if the supplier identifies an issue (declaration) with the product. Say its missing a headphone or what ever, then you cant return it saying that it's not acceptable because the headphone is missing.
At least, thats the way I read it.
Thanks Pete. The point is the label says one thing, XL, that usually fits her. But the item is just far too small. So I'm calling it unfit for the purpose and proceeding accordingly.
They http://www.deshabille.com.au actually said to her "Too bad, you've lost your money." I don't think so and I am advising her to pursue the matter. First by insisting on her legal rights with the company, they have 24hrs to respond, then either by ACCC or CC charge-back.
We'll see soon enough how it goes and I'll update here, at least …
EDIT : They actually say it on their site - "Please note there is no exchange or returns on sale items." - http://www.deshabille.com.au/returns--exchanges.html - Which may be policy but certainly is not law, according to the ACCC, linked above.
Mention that you will be reporting them to your state's Fair Trading body.
I disagree.
Take shirts for example, sometimes I can fit medium, sometimes large, sometimes extra large.
It depends on the brand and type of fit.
You never rely on sizes unless they are in measurements.
I don't think you will be able to return it
What did you buy? Was it overseas? Different countries have different measurements, eg. shoes.
Sounds like you bought some clothes. For example, a M sized shirt from the USA is probably XL in South Korea
My neighbour bought a XL which she normally does and it is more like an M. Bought in Aus online, but made in China as it turns out.
The matter may be settled now but I never count my chickens before the money has changed hands …
Will update thread.
The fact that they are selling the item at a sale price does not negate a person's consumer rights. You're best off talking directly to the dept fair trading. Explain to them that the item is significantly different to the size it should be, and they will probably advise you on what to tell the retailer regarding your rights.
Measure the garment and check the sizing measurements info page and see if they match.
If they do, I doubt your neighbour will get a refund. If not, then you have a case.
Measure against http://www.deshabille.com.au/size-charts.html
If its a different than these measurements you can ask for a refund.
If not then you are not entitled to a refund unless it's actually faulty in some way.
Saying "no refunds" means nothing.
However "change of mind" refunds are at the discretion of the seller.
Thanks all, appreciated.
The item is a bath robe and they 'don't actually have a sizing guide for robes in their size charts' - from the owner.
The owner has agreed to a refund but like I said, no chicken counting …
Will update thread …
Possibly a better outcome, thanks for sharing the progress.
Actually looking at the site's rules for refunds, they are in breech of the ACCC rules. In that while they state no refunds/exchange on Sale items, they should, the way I read and understand it, indicate that this does not apply where it contravenes the law.
Always lots of misunderstandings regarding the wording of refund/exchange policies. I think many stores presume you realise they are not talking about faulty items because they are covered by law. Stores that have a return/exchange policy are actually saying "this is what our policy is if you change your mind about a product". The thinking for most stores is "well of course if it's broken… we don't need a policy for that because it's enshrined in law". In other words people confuse refund/exchange for warranty purpose and return/exchange for change of mind. That's my take on it anyway.
Good points, and I agree with commonsense, problem like all communications is that we assume certain things.
The ACCC says stores must make sure that it can't be misunderstood, as it may deprive some people of their rights.
Plus sometimes the person who misunderstands the policy is the store staff, who apply it too literally based on these signs
I totally agree. If ignorance is no excuse then customers (and staff) need clear and full policy to avoid confusion because let's face it … ignorance is rife :D
The cynical side of me sometimes thinks the poor wording, non-specific or down-right misleading language used might be an attempt to obfuscate the consumers rights. On the other hand, as lawyers write many of these policies for the larger retailers it's little wonder the policies don't say what they mean.
I generally agree with your perspective bigpallooka. My impression from looking at their conditions are that they are generally offering refunds or exchanges for items that you have purchased, even if you "just don't like it" or "change your mind". This is above and beyond the requirements of current Australian Law. I believe that when they say that they do not accept refund of exchanges on sale items, they are referring to scenarios such as this.
I think that the lack of specific reference to faulty items or statutory warranty is potentially misleading, and certainly should be more explicit.
On the other hand, by hounding retailers who generously offer no question ask exchanges, we may find that they just stop doing this and I don't think that would necessarily be a good outcome…… ?
I think the important thing to remember is that many stores use return and exchange policies to differentiate themselves from their competitors. It's a bonus that says "We want your business and are willing to go further than our competitors". Maybe other stores that accept returns and exchanges grudgingly or word their public policy poorly have undertaken the policy simply to keep up with their competitors. I don't fear a change in policy from the big retailers because they would find it detrimental to their bottom line but it must be a pain in the behind for small retailers. On the other hand as you say a clearly worded simple policy would be to their and our advantage.
The problem with statutory warranties is that sometimes the retailer won't just do the right thing - sometimes you actually need to enforce them
That is when it gets painful.
I think it is unlikely that you will succeed on a sizing issue but you never know.
I don't understand online retailers who make it difficult for people to return goods for refund. Far out.. what poor customer service. When I started my online business I just accepted the fact that people will want to return goods for exchange/refund as it may not suit them. Regardless of size, shape, description and pictures sometimes people change their mind or aren't happy with the product. You build this into your margin and business planning because it will happen.
When you get a customer who isn't happy (for whatever reason) you are given a golden opportunity to interact with them and really impress them with your customer service skills and swift resolution. Online shops out here have to stop looking at these types of businesses as purely a numbers game and really go back to old school customer service from the 50's that involved a smile and hand shake.
The shop here really missed out on the chance to impress the OP with some 'wow' factor…
That's the right attitude but too many count pennies and miss the pounds, or good-will, which is invaluable. Now that business has not only lost me and my neighbour's future business, she has lost any recommendation we might have made. And I am always making recommendations, even on OzBargain, because I think good business should be rewarded.
So, Third_Gear, what do you sell? I like your attitude and if you have anything I need I'll be checking you out for sure …
Haven't ridden in a while, though might again, these Oz roads are for dyin on but I know people who still risk it. Will pass it on. Best … M
Update : My neighbour got her refund of $50, losing $20 to postage, both ways. An expensive lesson for her, a pensioner.
On the whole the business owner's attitude and standard procedures was very poor, even accusing my neighbour of being manipulative and low behaviour after someone commented on her FB page their refund policy was out of date - someone from here I suspect. :)
Unlike Third_Gear above, some just don't have a clue how to treat people …
The problem I see with your argument is that it is fit for the purpose, just not for her purpose. :( Did they however supply a different size from what she ordered?