Anyone Hired a Bike or Kayak before or Interested in Hire One?

• 

  MS Paint on 05/10/2024 - 09:17

  +7

  Do you have to own a RAV4 with roof racks to hire a kayak?

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:29

    +1

    No. It is easier with roof racks but there are a few options if you don't have.
    1. There are modular kayaks which can be dissembled and put into a car
    2. There are inflatable kayas, take some effort to setup but can be easy transferred.
    3. There are also foam roof racks, which can be tied on temporarily

    • 

      MS Paint on 05/10/2024 - 12:05

      That makes sense. Cheers

      • 

        bloom on 05/10/2024 - 14:54

        +1

        SHAME TOYOTA SHAME

    • 

      HeWhoKnows on 06/10/2024 - 08:54

      -3

      And the same applies to bikes ????

      Maybe not

• 

  fantombloo on 05/10/2024 - 09:24

  +4

  I have, but almost always right on location. (I did hire a kayak once off location but only to test for a potential buy). Apart from removing the transport / storage rigmarole it also means there is immediate support if something goes wrong. To hire otherwise I'd want a pretty steep discount or other sweetener.

  • 

    apsilon on 05/10/2024 - 09:30

    Same. I've hired kayaks before but they were right on the water where we wanted to go. Never hired a bike before. I own several bikes and a kayak now so would have no interest in hiring unless it was for a particular spur of the moment use while on holiday and they were right there.

    • 

      Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:38

      Thanks! Would you be interested in renting out your bike?

      • 

        apsilon on 05/10/2024 - 19:18

        +2

        Not a chance. I've seen how hired stuff is treated.

        • 

          Ryan2008 on 07/10/2024 - 13:02

          @apsilon: Thanks for sharing.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:37

    Thanks for your response! What do you think would be a good price for hiring a kayak off location?

    When I was on holiday in Cairns, I wanted to rent a kayak for a few days, but the local hire shops charged by the hour, and the daily rate wasn’t much cheaper. It got me thinking—if someone owns a spare kayak, the cost of renting it out for a day versus a few days probably isn’t that different. So, they might be open to offering a big discount for longer hires.

• 

  mapax on 05/10/2024 - 09:34

  I hired a bike once, it was $5 for the day.

  • 

    DashCam AKA Rolts on 05/10/2024 - 10:17

    Free bikes from the Bali hotels for me.

    • 

      Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:40

      nice,

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:40

    that's a really good price. Was that in Australia?

    • 

      mapax on 05/10/2024 - 12:03

      Yes, at caravan/cabin rental park.

      • 

        Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 19:40

        That's very handy

• 

  FoxJump on 05/10/2024 - 09:48

  +3

  pretty sure bike hire business exist and used to litter the city with bikes

  kayak hire is great on location. otherwise … it would have to be a good kayak at a great price

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:44

    -1

    Most bike hire businesses I know are run by shops, but I’m hoping there’s room for a marketplace.

    As for kayak hire, the feedback I’ve received so far is similar to yours—people are much more interested if the kayaks are available on location.

    What would you consider as a great price ?

• 

  FoxJump on 05/10/2024 - 09:49

  +1

  don't be specific. implement a hire-a-thing where i can lease out anything i own. but you provide insurance

  thing next door?

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:47

    Yeah, we actually thought about that, but if all kinds of items were listed, it’d be tricky to figure out how to value them and provide insurance.

• 

  holdenmg on 05/10/2024 - 10:02

  +3

  What is your Business plan?

  What Insurance will you have if/when someone:
  gets injured
  bike/kayak is defective
  bike/kayak gets stolen

  Public Liability… nuh…

  • 

    djones145 on 05/10/2024 - 10:31

    +2

    business plan is

    get idea up
    create app
    get a catchy brand name
    give freebies and sign up on ozbargain
    gain customer base
    sell to uber - kayak/bike
    $$$$

    • 

      Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 17:41

      Exactly, that's the dream! 😂 But honestly, it's more than just the money—we really want to create something that brings real value to people.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 11:51

    That’s a great question for my insurance broker! 😊 Honestly, we haven’t chatted with them yet, but at the end of the day, it’s not too different from how Airbnb or other similar marketplaces handle it.

• 

  djsweet on 05/10/2024 - 10:06

  I would probably only be interested in hiring a high end road bike. But they are $$$ and require specific setups for specific m people and come in different size frames. There might be a market, but not sure if it would be worth it.

  • 

    Downvoter on 05/10/2024 - 10:42

    +2

    Exxy bike = need proper bike fit to make the most of it.

    • 

      Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 17:47

      Thanks for the feedback.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 17:46

    Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, we’re not totally sure about the market size either. One idea we’ve been thinking about is a "Try and Buy" option, where people can rent a high-end bike to test it out before buying. If they decide to go for it, the rental cost would count as credit towards the purchase. If not, they just pay the rental fee, which is way cheaper than buying the bike outright.

    • 

      holdenmg on 05/10/2024 - 18:09

      https://www.sportcorp.com.au/bikes/ is already being done.

      Your idea isn't backed by market research or analysis of demand.

      Why wouldn't people prefer the 99 Bikes Perfect Ride Guarantee on bikes where you have 30 days to ride your bike purchase and if you don't completely love it, you can swap it free.

    • 

      djsweet on 05/10/2024 - 18:12

      Could work. Obviously question is what happens to the returned bikies? You can’t really pull the rent and buy game on the next person since it’s now a used bike they are renting.

• 

  rumblytangara on 05/10/2024 - 10:46

  +2

  Trying out different types of bikes
  Testing out different types of kayaks

  Any specialist sports gear that is worth 'testing out' is probably not the sort of thing you'd rent to some total random noob.

  Higher end bikes and fast paddlecraft go well north of 5K and are made of materials that need some degree of care.

• 

  EFC94 on 05/10/2024 - 12:26

  +1

  I think it would be easier to just stop planning this idea out now, it's not going to go very far.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 17:48

    yes, that's easier, but just don't want to give up too early.

• 

  Euphemistic on 05/10/2024 - 13:38

  Maybe itll work, but i suspect not.

  Bikes are cheap and easy to store so hiring is only really going to work for people away from home not having acess to their own bike. How would you manage punctures on hire bikes.

  Kayaks are difficult to transport unless you are set up for it. Kayak hire is best 'on location'.

  Kayaks and bikes are ususally stored in garages or backyards. How do you manage pixkup and return without ua ing to hand over the item, or leave it outside unsecured.

  I have several bikes and would probably not hire them out. I like them looked after to my standards. I have a couple of kayaks, not sure id want randoms coming to my house and into my backyard to take them out. Then theyd probably drop them from the roof and ending up cracked before i use them again.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:03

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts—I totally get where you're coming from. But on the flip side, what if hiring out your bike or kayak could actually help you upgrade to a newer model? It could turn your gear into an asset that earns you some extra cash, so your hobby doesn't end up costing you anything. And of course, this would only work if we can make the process super smooth and safe for both the owner and the renter.

• 

  Cheaplikethebird on 05/10/2024 - 14:19

  +1

  How many hire business pitches are we at now, is it 5?

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:04

    Was there any ? good to know :)

• 

  freefall101 on 05/10/2024 - 16:21

  +1

  The reason this hasn't been done is because the value of the asset is too low. Trying to make money as a middleman doing none of the real worth simply isn't worth it and there's no way to create value there.

  The requirements to setup the website, cash collection/making payments, security, insurance and issue resolution makes it a horrible idea. It can be done with cars because the cost is so high. Doing it with bikes? You're going to be talking people renting out $500 bikes for $5 a day and you'll make 50c a transaction. You'd need volume in the hundreds of thousands of rentals for it to be remotely worthwhile and that's simply not going to happen. Whereas for a kayak/bike store renting them out, they own the asset, they can mitigate the risk (review every bike that is returned, check for damage, hold credit card details)

  I'd work on a business case on how the numbers work before asking whether anyone would use it.

  • 

    Euphemistic on 05/10/2024 - 18:01

    they can mitigate the risk (review every bike that is returned)

    This is a big thing. Bikes can get knocked around and need semi regular maintnance. How is a re.ote app going to ensure the bike is ready for next time. Plus, who is going to get the blame for damage after three riders have used the bike, the owner hasnt checked it and the next hirer refuses to take it because xxxxx has happened and they dont want to get blamed.

    • 

      Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:27

      You’re right—this is definitely the biggest risk we’re facing. It’s frustrating how one bad experience can mess things up for everyone. Reviews can help a bit, but like you said, if damage isn’t caught right away, it’s tough to figure out who’s responsible. And at that point, the damage is already done.
      We’re trying to think of ways to reduce this risk, but it’s definitely a challenge. I don't know the answer to it.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:20

    -2

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You’ve raised some really valid points about margins, risk, and maintenance. We’ve definitely considered these, and while we don’t have a perfect solution yet, our thinking is that if a shop can make it profitable, bike owners should be able to as well. Maintaining a bike isn’t rocket science, and the costs aren’t huge for individual owners.

    Plus, a solid platform could streamline things like payments, insurance, and logistics—maybe even more efficiently than a shop can. Combining these factors could help make bike rentals more viable for individual owners.

    • 

      freefall101 on 05/10/2024 - 18:26

      +1

      I think you missed my point, it’s not how it’s profitable for them, it’s how it is profitable for you.

      Although it’s likely not going to be that useful for them either. Every man and their dog will put a bike up on there. With a car you can verify ownership, make, model and value to a fair degree. A bike you can’t. A stolen bike becomes very difficult to track. A rental store it’s easy, bike doesn’t come back they charge the credit card.

      What happens the first time someone says “my bike was stolen!” on your platform?

      • 

        Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:42

        Thanks for the feedback! If a bike gets stolen, that part is actually pretty straightforward. Just like how rental shops charge credit cards for unreturned items, a sharing platform could do the same—similar to how Airbnb handles damage claims. The real challenge is when a bike gets returned damaged, and it’s hard to pin down who’s responsible. That’s definitely tricky.

        As for profitability, it’s all about keeping the platform’s running costs low. If we can hit the volume of, say, 50 bike shops but operate with lower overhead, then the profit could be similar. Plus, for many bike shops, rentals aren’t their main income, and that might be the case here too.

        Lastly, we’re not trying to build a unicorn startup—just something local, profitable, and useful for the community.

        • 

          freefall101 on 05/10/2024 - 21:29

          @Ryan2008: Scenario for you. Person renting out the bike says it was never returned. Person who rented it says it was returned. How do you deal with that?

          A rental shop that's easy, they can tell if the person comes back with the bike or doesn't. But you don't have that knowledge, you're the middleman between two individuals.

          Your profit scenario doesn't make sense either, you're not earning money off renting out the bike like a bike shop is, you're just earning a cut as a middleman for running the platform, while dealing with all the legal issues and insurance. For airbnb and turo, taking a 20% cut of a $300 a day/night event means decent revenue. You're talking $20-50 a day revenue that you get a cut from for each bike hired. There's a lot of work involved and not exactly a huge market of people wanting to do this. Have you actually figured out a pathway to profitability? Because it sounds like you like the idea and how it'll ever be anything besides a massive time and money sink is secondary to that.

          Bike shops do it on the side for some extra cash, with little overheads because they're already bike shops. I don't know how your overheads get lower than that while building a platform.

• 

  simplystu on 05/10/2024 - 18:33

  +1

  what is wrong with the bike/kayak hire places down along the river of your town ???
  +++ have captured soo much of the market.

  obviously, they have a good business model - as soo many have been operating for 15+ years.

  as to PRIVATE hire of said items … meh.
  unless proper business + INSURANCE/etc == 100% no go.

  I guess one could put up an AD on FB - but nah - 100% opening yourself up to all sorts of potential issues.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 05/10/2024 - 18:51

    Nothing wrong with those places at all—kind of like how there’s nothing wrong with Hilton or Hyatt, but we still have Airbnb, right? They just cater to different types of customers.

    The idea behind a platform like this is to make things easier for individuals by offering stuff that's usually too hard or expensive to manage on your own, like insurance and risk checks. It’s really about giving people more options.

• 

  brendanm on 06/10/2024 - 20:44

  +2

  Hmmm, it's very tempting to make $5 by renting out my $2000 item that will then get trashed leaving me with $500 of repairs, but I will have to pass this time.

  • 

    Ryan2008 on 06/10/2024 - 22:15

    I see your point! Just for comparison, the median house price in Mount Masa is around $1.5M, and the daily rate on Airbnb is about $200. If you do the math, (200/1,500,000) x 2,000 = $ 0.26.

    I’m not saying bike hiring is necessarily a better deal, but it’s interesting how the numbers compare :)

    • 

      rumblytangara on 06/10/2024 - 22:54

      +3

      Yes, because homes are made of paper thin carbon fibre sheeting, transported on the roof racks, or ridden through at speed through forests or traffic.

      Have you really run any more numbers on this? Because earlier you claim that an owner could reduce their costs of ownership to zero and fund upgrades to their equipment.

      Seems unlikely to me, and our family has owned both high-ish end bikes and kayaks (well, more accurately, surf skis which are more specialised). If anything, it was noteworthy that in both communities, lending gear is only done to close, trusted and known-competent friends. Only shitty spare gear is lent to relative newcomers.

      • 

        Euphemistic on 07/10/2024 - 07:56

        lending gear is only done to close, trusted and known-competent friends.

        And then, the good gear is usually loaned innthe presence of the owner. Not often just handed out without some form of supervision.

      • 

        Ryan2008 on 09/10/2024 - 21:59

        Thanks for your comment! I don’t have exact numbers, but let me walk you through my rough thoughts on the lifecycle of a bike (or kayak). Say you buy a quality bike for $5,000 with a lifespan of about six years. In the first two years, you might ride it regularly and not feel the need to hire it out. By the third year, though, the bike's value drops to around $3,000, and you're not riding as much. At this point, you start hiring it out occasionally.

        Let’s say over the third and fourth years, you rent it for about 100 days total at a daily rate of $30, earning you $3,000. In the fifth year, you decide to sell it for $2,000. At the end of the cycle, you’ve essentially recovered the full $5,000—so in this example, the bike costs you nothing to own over those years. Of course, not every case will work out this way, and there could be scenarios where someone loses money, but there are also cases where people could come out ahead.

        Hope this clarifies my earlier point!

        • 

          rumblytangara on 09/10/2024 - 22:37

          @Ryan2008: Using mountain bikes as an example.

          Let’s say over the third and fourth years, you rent it for about 100 days total at a daily rate of $30, earning you $3,000. In the fifth year, you decide to sell it for $2,000.

          That $2000 seems around the right ballpark for a ~5 year old bike that's been ridden by the owner and well maintained- no major dings to the frame, fairly minor scratching to suspension.

          After you've rented a bike out for 100 days to complete strangers, it's going to be trashed and worth scrap value for parts.

          You are also not factoring the hours upon hours of maintenance required to keep the bike rideable- you're going to have to replace parts on a regular basis. The most fragile and exposed component on a bike is the rear derailleur, which is a $130 part + the time to source and install. This is a part that can get damaged simply by some clueless noob putting it in the boot of his car the wrong way up. Or scratch up the fork stanchions and nobody is buying the bike for more than spare change.

          I know someone who owned a bike store who branched out to rentals. He ended up having to bin that part of the business because people kept wrecking his bikes (and this was with very low costs of labour) or literally leaving them in the middle of the trail when they had a flat tyre.

          I've also seen the other end of the market, where bike parks rent out high end bikes and have a team of mechanics running constant maintenance. Difference here is the bikes cost about $150 a day, which seems an unlikely price to pay on a random Uber Bikeshare platform.

          Do you own high end sporting gear yourself? You seem to have a very different attitude towards it than most owners I've known.

          The number of riders I've known who would be prepared to rent out their decent bikes for $30 a day is literally zero. I've known one guy who has a rental fleet, but he only rents them to clients that he is guiding for the day.

          • 

            Euphemistic on 10/10/2024 - 12:49

            @rumblytangara: Totally agree. You cant rent out a bike for $30/day and expect to not spend $100 in servicing costs every few hires, or soend your time maintaining a bike you dont ride, or you could leave it in the shed not ridden and spend $0 on maintenance.

            I've known one guy who has a rental fleet, but he only rents them to clients that he is guiding for the day.

            Under supervision is the only way to do it. We all know the "its only a rental" attitude.

• 

  foodsnob on 11/10/2024 - 09:52

  the bike hire marketplace business exists, not in Australia but overseas. I think in the USA or Europe. Can't recall the name. It may or may not work as others have said. The people who might be willing to let one out probably have a shitbox gathering webs in the garage (or an expensive one gathering dust) or the people who actually ride bikes would care way too much to let some random use it (me). I like the kayak idea though but transporting it to the water is a big barrier to using the service.