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Is the difference between 5G and 4G perceivable? If it does, in what scenario?
I can't speak for others but i notice the difference
Is the difference between 5G and 4G perceivable?
Yes, with Australia's implementation of it.
In Australia, 5G is on higher frequencies than 4G. So 4G vs 5G is quite similar to the difference between 2.4GHz WiFi and 5GHz WiFi:
And, at the moment, relatively fewer people are using 5G, so it appears even faster. That will decrease as more people get 5G capable phones, but given the larger bandwidth available and the increased number of transmitters, it looks like 5G will always be significantly faster than 4G if you're close to one of those transmitters. In sparsely-populated areas, I doubt they will get upgraded to 5G, not unless the 4G network is shut down - which I doubt will happen for many years, if ever.
I should add that if you're only using a mobile for actual phone calls and messaging, you won't be able to tell the difference between 4G and 5G, except for the poorer indoors coverage of 5G. It's when you want fast data transfers that you'll notice - but again, if you're deep inside a building and/or not near a transmitter, 4G could still give you better speeds than 5G.
This is incorrect - telcos also use lowband for 5G.
For example Vodafone's n28 network. Lower frequency then their b5 (700mhz vs 850mhz) and generally provides a good experience. Telstra and Optus are also rolling out n5/n26 and n8 respectively which are all lowband.
Telcos are putting up lots more transmitters . You've probably already seen some on power poles, or announcements on power poles that they will be getting a transmitter.
Are you referring to mmwave because this is what typically is installed (for Telstra) the user experience will probably be the same because on most ue, mmwave isn't supported on the Aussie models. Optus use small cell tongyu passive antennas to provide n40/n78/n1 in some areas, think northern beaches or Lindfield.
Lower frequency then their b5 (700mhz vs 850mhz) and generally provides a good experience.
Ehh questionable. Personal experience around Sydney CBD and Parramatta switching between Telstra and Vodafone was that while I was getting full bars more often with Vodafone the speed was far lower and less stable than Telstra where I rarely got more than 3 bars. Wasn't surprising given like you said Vodafone uses lower frequencies but often times 5G was not much better than 4G.
Telstra's higher frequency 5G on the other hand, it was night and day.
@YuMaNuMa: It's difficult to say the reception is good at lower frequencies because many factors affect it, like your distance from the signal tower, the number of buildings around you, interference from other signals, and the number of people (mobile phones) nearby. Also, the transmitter tries to adapt the best quality frequencies between mobile and the transmitter. I can say if your reception is good and speed is good, then you are likely close to the transmitter which also has a good beam forming to your location.
Ehh questionable. Personal experience around Sydney CBD and Parramatta switching between Telstra and Vodafone was that while I was getting full bars more often with Vodafone the speed was far lower and less stable than Telstra where I rarely got more than 3 bars.
In high load areas their n28 seems to take a hit - 15mhz of NR isn’t going to do much apart from maybe better upload because n78 is TDD.
For example Vodafone's n28 network.
That's interesting, sounds like VF aren't buying extra spectrum for their 5G network, just cannibalizing their existing frequencies.
Do you know if those frequencies were previously allocated to their 3G network? That might be the reason, sounds like they're trying to do a "me too" claim for having 5G, without buying more spectrum.
If a 5G network has the same bandwidth as a 4G network, as they would be in the lower bands, they're both the same speed from what I have been able to find out. So putting 5G on a lower band rather than 4G, while also moving the 3G users to 4G, will make the 4G band slower. Perhaps they're hoping that congestion will let them sell more new 5G handsets with lock-in contracts?
Are you referring to mmwave because this is what typically is installed (for Telstra)
The local ones I'm seeing are a mixture of Telstra and Vodafone, possibly as my area has poor coverage due to the topography. Right now on Optus, I'm getting 2 out of 5 bars in inner-city Brisbane.
That's interesting, sounds like VF aren't buying extra spectrum for their 5G network, just cannibalizing their existing frequencies.
Wrong, they have bought extra spectrum in the n78 range but atleast in sydney the extra 20mhz isnt being utilised yet.
Do you know if those frequencies were previously allocated to their 3G network? That might be the reason, sounds like they're trying to do a "me too" claim for having 5G, without buying more spectrum.
When telstra’s 3G network closes, they will run 10mhz of n5, and 10mhz of n26 in metro areas. Regional areas get 15mhz of n5 and 10mhz n/b26. The b8 spectrum that optus has now was previously used to run u900 on Vodafone and Optus, however that licence expired in july and optus bought 25mhz paired of b8 spectrum.
5G has efficiency gains spectrum wise, so faster speed is possible.
If a 5G network has the same bandwidth as a 4G network, as they would be in the lower bands, they're both the same speed from what I have been able to find out. So putting 5G on a lower band rather than 4G, while also moving the 3G users to 4G, will make the 4G band slower. Perhaps they're hoping that congestion will let them sell more new 5G handsets with lock-in contracts?
5G has efficiency gains, so you can get faster speeds with the same spectrum. Unless the operator is running it as DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing) which utilises the spectrum for both LTE and NR at the same time. It adjusts spectrum via load on each technology. Yes, bringing more users from 3G to 4G might bring additional congestion.
The local ones I'm seeing are a mixture of Telstra and Vodafone, possibly as my area has poor coverage due to the topography. Right now on Optus, I'm getting 2 out of 5 bars in inner-city Brisbane.
Interesting, i’ve never seen a vodafone 5G street cell before. Might have a look around on RFNSA
5G has efficiency gains
I've not seen that claimed before, can you point me to your source of information?
4G runs pretty close to the Shannon-Hartley limit for spectral efficiency, so the only way it could be improved is by going to a higher-order QAM constellation, and there normally isn't enough SNR for that to be practical. The data overhead for LTE (packetization, addressing etc) is pretty low, so I can't see any significant gains there.
The main advantages of 5G that I have uncovered are a different form of error correction that is less computationally intensive, and tweaks so the system stays efficient when being used by IOT devices with a very low data rate. All of the claimed speed advantages that I have seen come from the increased bandwidth available at 6GHz and above, and the ability to aggregate more channels/carriers into one data stream.
Interesting, i’ve never seen a vodafone 5G street cell before
It might just be an ambit claim, lots of similar notices went up just before the TPG/VF merger was quashed, and nothing eventuated on those poles. It might also be a 4G mini-cell, the public announcements don't give technical info.
@Russ: https://www.5g-networks.net/5g-technology/spectral-efficienc…
In my real world testing, and from friends i've seen a 20mhz carrier perform better on NR.
@Quarter Pounder: Never trust figures given by somebody selling network equipment. That webpage is calculating based on QAM64 (6 bits per symbol) for LTE, and 4:4 MIMO, which are incorrect for Australia.
Telstra uses LTE-A, I haven't checked the other carriers. LTE-A uses 256QAM (8 bits per symbol), so their figures are wrong for Australia, and using their figures, should be 20bits per second per Hz. Also, LTE-A uses 8:8 MIMO, so using their assumptions, LTE-A increases to 40bits per second per Hz.
Their estimate of how useful MIMO is, is unrealistic (it's not nearly as high as that), and they're not giving any working for how they arrived at their "2.31Gbps" rate, other than to say "The values shown here are just theoretical value".
i've seen a 20mhz carrier perform better on NR
Given that carriers are shared between multiple users, and there are far fewer 5G users than 4G users, would account for that.
Also, LTE-A uses 8:8 MIMO, so using their assumptions, LTE-A increases to 40bits per second per Hz.
Carriers here are only using 4T4R for their LTE. Apart from a few Huawei b3 AAS on Vodafone that were trialed.
Carriers here are only using 4T4R for their LTE.
Thanks for that info, such info isn't readily available to the general public.
It makes sense, as the extra data you get from each additional MIMO spatial stream gets lower and lower. The chance of any location having more than three strongly-reflecting RF surfaces nearby is vanishingly small.
three strongly-reflecting RF surfaces nearby is vanishingly small.
It is, but NR does provide better efficiency. Telstra can utilize all their b7 holdings on sites with capable RRUS, they can run 30mhz n7 + 20mhz 3148 b7 like what is currently being deployed in Sydney and Melbourne.
but NR does provide better efficiency.
I believe you got better speeds with your comparison tests, but I'd like to know WHY. If LTE-A isn't using 8:8 MIMO in Australia, is 5G using it?
Proper comparisons, with facts and figures, don't seem to exist. And the figures that do exist, such as the hand-wavy "theoretical" 23 bits per second per Hz, are not significantly different to the 20 bits per second per Hz that I calculated for LTE-A using the hand-wavy figures from that same website.
I believe you got better speeds with your comparison tests, but I'd like to know WHY. If LTE-A isn't using 8:8 MIMO in Australia, is 5G using it?
some sites do use 8TR on midbands, optus dss 2100.
Depends on the AAS. Some passive sites are 8TR on n78, some are 4TR and some optus street cells are 2TR for NR.
https://www.zte.com.cn/global/about/news/china-mobile-qualco… looks like 1024qam is being tested in china via NR. Might be useful when interference can be better managed in the cbd.
Given that carriers are shared between multiple users, and there are far fewer 5G users than 4G users, would account for that.
These results were done on sites with very low load - one was basically a lab.
Never trust figures given by somebody selling network equipment.
What, so don't trust Ericsson/Nokia on what they advertise?
Also I don't believe that site sells network equipment
Also I don't believe that site sells network equipment
Well, they're selling something, from their invitations to "contact us", and look like they're pro-5G from their hand-wavy figures on comparative speeds, and their failure to compare with the proper competition to 5G, which is LTE-A.
Thank you for the very detailed explanation. So in short, if I simply use my mobile data to browse the internet like ozbargain or reddit, I shouldn't notice the difference right?
From the sounds of it, only downloading big files/apps would be noticable.
I shouldn't notice the difference right?
Web pages might load faster. But if you're not finding pages slow to load on 4G, you won't get an advantage from 5G.
Does Catch give existing customers discounts on their plans when they recharge the following years?
or are you stuck paying the standard price after the first year
Sometimes
I turned off auto-recharge and they emailed with a month to go for a discount for the following year: $112.50. I would have switched to a cheaper provider otherwise. I assume they would just let those who have auto-recharge on get hit with the $150.
Connection keep dropping at time
For first year theb renews at standard price
Turn off auto-renew?
Does it have to be activated in 30 days or can wait several months? Any experience?
Want to know this too
It looks like you get 24 months to activate, assuming there are not any special add-ons.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x6bc6q3sz14NC22c48z7xNHCwfP…
sweet! since I missed the last deal like 2 days ago, also how long do I have to active the sim? cheers
Catch take forever to post the sim out to you. Over a month. Be warned.
sounds like a shipping issue, surely not over a month for all
Yes it was over a month. Just search previous deals, very common.
Thanks OP
Looking at this for a teenager who only requires calls and data occasionally. I'd prefer something on one of the Telstra networks but happy to give Optus a go.
Is the the best value option out there at the moment? Any other suggestions?
Thanks
This is pretty good. I just need a cheap sim for similar reasons. Was looking at Aldi $5 sim, with $15 recharges… but this Catch connect deal has unlimited phone and text (unlike the Aldi one).
Jesooze Krist, 5 days and still processing, all the savings being eroded by paying $10 a week to Amaysim to extend while I wait for sim card.
Same here, 8 days, lol.
How do you view your order status? I ordered this morning and got an email this afternoon saying it's on the way.
I've been with Catch for about 3 years now.
My prepaid plan is due to expire in 3 weeks and I havent received a discounted renewal email yet.
I contacted CatchConnect and was told the discount renewals have ended.
Whats my best option now? Churn to Aldi and then utilise this CatchConnect offer?
Thoughts welcome.
This offer:
120GB for $109
= $90.83/100GB
Normal offer:
120GB +60GB bonus (180GB) for $150
= $83.33/100GB
So better value if you need more than 120GB data p.a.
I'm not a big user so 120GB is more than enough.
i'm looking for more of calls only while data can be 40GB…seems can't find any
Ordered mine on 21/9 and received today 26/9.
Ordered mine 12th still waiting apparently its been sent
Arrived today October 1st
An update with -$10, Just got it $99
OnePass member discount code ： 10OFF
must active"within 30days or by the date advertised in a promotion, whichever is earlier"
so,whats mean? if i buy on 22 oct, whats the deadline i must active it??
Not bad, but 4G puts me off
Good if you got someone in your family that just needs a cheap annual plan