Beware of Fake AMD CPUs

GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 08:45
Last edited 06/09/2024 - 08:52

I started another thread about ordering a new AMD CPU that was unavailable in Australia from an eBay seller in China. He has 3K+ sales and a 99.5% rating, and the price was fair, so it seemed reasonably safe. What arrived was an old used Intel CPU. He claimed it was a mistake, and given his good rating I accepted his offer to replace it with the correct item.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/145919678288

When the second package from him arrived I opened it at the police station in front of a police officer as a witness. What was in there looked right. It was clearly a Ryzen. And new. And it was labelled identifying it as the model I'd ordered. It all looked good. Simply a mistake.

But when I put it in a new ASUS AM5 motherboard it was dead. UMart checked the motherboard, and it was "no fault found". So it looked like the seller had sent me a dead CPU. Which was hard to understand because these things are quality checked ex-factory, so the only way to kill one is to mistreat it seriously negligently. Or deliberately. That was my first suspicion. That he was getting revenge for being caught out trying to scam me the first time.

The truth, after investigation, was worse than that.

Its an elaborately manufactured fake CPU. There's a substrate, with contacts on the bottom, and a lid on the top, and the lid has the apparently right writing on it. But there's nothing under the lid. No silicon.

https://community.amd.com/t5/general-discussions/have-i-got-…

The two clues it is a complete fake are that the writing on it is the correct style for a 7000 series Ryzen, but not an 8000 series, and there should be tiny components visible between the legs of the lid, and there aren't. A search around eBay shows heaps of sellers selling the, and lots of different AMD CPUs. They are easy to pick when you've been caught, and know what to look for.

I can return it. But he'll just palm it off to someone else.

I've reported it to eBay as a counterfeit/fake. That would mean it would be destroyed rather than returned. But who knows if eBay will take up the case. And I still have the problem of proving its a fake. Who do you go to to certify a fake computer chip?

I've tried to offer it to an Australian computer magazine as a story. They de-lid it and show there's nothing inside, and warn their readers. And certify it a fake. No takers so far.

Computing AMD Computer Component CPU

Comments

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 08:58

      Yes, the 7000 series fakes are even harder to pick because they have the correct style of labelling on them, and the counterfeiters have added what appears to be the right small components between the legs of the lid.

  • Ocker on 06/09/2024 - 09:03
    +25

    The moral of the story is, buy anything from China at your own peril.

      • Ocker on 06/09/2024 - 18:52
        +2

        The fact the only place globally where stock was available was China should have been a red flag.

        • Loopholio on 07/09/2024 - 11:10
          +3

          Chinese red flag. I see what you did there :p

    • fisherfriendman on 07/09/2024 - 16:18

      Buying anything off eBay requires caution, and for just about every other products in any market. Houses are one example in Australia where the expectation of a product sometimes does not meet the minimum required standard for living in.

  • scrimshaw on 06/09/2024 - 09:04
    +8

    Australian computer magazine as a story. And certify it a fake. No takers so far.

    der8auer covered this story 4 days ago, he delidded one and found that the IHS block was custom made to even fake the CPU die.

    It seems that someone has gone to great lengths to counterfeit these CPU's, since those IHS's appear to be CNC milled and was very close in dimensions to the real thing.

  • Wiadro on 06/09/2024 - 09:04
    +2

    with an listing description of

    Hello: you can consult me if you have any questions.

    why would you think its legit… lol

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 09:08

      Yes, yes, its easy to be wise to the smallest clues after you've been caught.

  • theguwithnoname on 06/09/2024 - 09:07
    +3

    Sorry, slightly unrelated, but

    opened it at the police station in front of a police officer as a witness

    I had no idea this was something that you can do. Is the reason to provide some authority when you complain to eBay that the seller scammed you? Are there any fees associated with this?

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 09:15
      +5

      There are helpful police, and there are unhelpful police. I got one of each. He just wanted me to go away, because with the seller in China there was nothing the police would be able to do anyway. She was totally helpful, and a detective stuck his head around the door when he heard the discussion. I did it there not because the police would be able to do anything, but so I had a unimpeachable independent witness and video surveillance footage to cite. If that was required.

      With the first package it arrived at the post office, was opened in front of the PO staff member and shown to the security camera, just in case the sender had argued that I was trying to scam him. Which the sender could have done if it'd been delivered to my home and I'd opened it there.

      • theguwithnoname on 06/09/2024 - 09:19
        +2

        Ah ok fair enough. Do you do this with all packages from china, or just the ones that have a suspicious listing and/or high price?

        I buy a ton of stuff from china, for high price items I just record myself opening the package, never thought to take it to the police station.

        • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 09:27
          +2

          No, it was just that by pure dumb luck I wasn't home when the first package arrived, so I collected it at the post office, and it turned out to be either a mistake or an attempted scam that I decided I needed to protect myself with the second package. Because it came by FedEx directly to my home I needed somewhere the opening of the package would be witnessed, and be on security camera. The local police station seemed the obvious one.

    • bdl on 06/09/2024 - 12:41
      +11

      Law & Order: SVU CPU

  • MS Paint on 06/09/2024 - 09:09
    +4

    So much recent effort to end up in this predictable position. FFS.

    • pharkurnell on 06/09/2024 - 10:30

      But he saved $2.43

      • MS Paint on 06/09/2024 - 10:34

        But wasted 5 minutes of a public servants time. Our taxes paid for his witness. FFS.

        I opened it at the police station in front of a police officer as a witness

        • pharkurnell on 06/09/2024 - 12:01

          That is not = to $2.43

        • Protractor on 06/09/2024 - 12:15
          +1

          Plod was paid whether he witnessed it or not. The plebs didn't pay any extra. So an unnecessary car chase may have been delayed. Meh.

          • MS Paint on 06/09/2024 - 12:21
            -1

            @Protractor: To be fair the cop eating a donut would have made better use of their time.

  • Sinnerator on 06/09/2024 - 09:28
    +1

    Whats the point of all the effort to make the cpu look legit when it will never work?
    It makes no difference if it looks real if it doesn't work
    All they are doing is wasting a bit of time confusing people, but in the end it does not work
    they may as well just send a rock in the packaging

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 09:31
      +4

      Judging by the number of other sellers of these things, it must work often enough to be worth it.

      Assisted by eBay's policy that if something doesn't work you return it, you get your money back, and the feedback that you got sold a crock gets deleted, and the seller can try it on again with the next sucker.

      eBay doesn't want to get rid of the frauds. It makes money from them.

    • EightImmortals on 06/09/2024 - 09:43

      Even a fake CPU is a CPU, a rock isn't. If the authorities get onto the seller he could get into trouble for selling rocks instead of CPU's, this way they have plausible deniability. Maybe?

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 10:06

      Damn, I just got the email from eBay say the return option was closed. It would have been nice to still have that available. It'd be nice if they'd warn you before they did that, instead of only telling you afterwards.

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 10:27

      And PayPal won't help me unless I contacted the seller and accepted his offer of a refund.

      Between them eBay and PayPal just encourage the scammers.

      • pharkurnell on 06/09/2024 - 10:29

        Between them eBay and PayPal just encourage the scammers.

        Thank you Captain Obvious..

      • Protractor on 06/09/2024 - 12:13

        I think you found the job description

    • smalltime0 on 07/09/2024 - 15:31

      People tried shipping bricks before, turns out it doesn't work too well.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniScribe#Fraud_and_failure

      Likely the gambit is that people will troubleshoot the problem, which will give them enough time to escape ebay's feedback and loss prevention deadlines. If they cotton on too quickly, accept the return and ship a genuine product -get a good review.

  • netjock on 06/09/2024 - 09:58
    +1

    I watched the youtube Aliexpress test of ram and SSDs. It was pretty funny how some of the SSDs were actually microSD cards in a reader put into SSD enclosure. Ram had different chips from different batches. I also like the motherboards with a combination of chipsets.

    I would only buy a cheap $50 second hand CPU from China. Even then if it was $60 here I'd buy it from a seller here.

    If there is enough margin they'll try anything.

  • JIMB0 on 06/09/2024 - 10:09
    +4

    What did you expect? eBay is full of fakes.

    • Loopholio on 07/09/2024 - 11:17

      Yes, but it shouldn't be.

  • brendanm on 06/09/2024 - 10:24
    +9

    Stop buying crap from china via eBay or AliExpress. Purchase them from a computer shop.

  • pharkurnell on 06/09/2024 - 10:27

    … seller in China.

    Found the problem….

    Fake cameras are also flowing freely from there

  • Cluster on 06/09/2024 - 11:42
    +1

    Mmm, that is pretty extraordinary. I've heard of modern fake/counterfeit ICs but this one takes the cake in terms of effort by the scammer.

    A long time ago I was stung by a scam where a local computer store built a PC for me with a faked CPU. The CPU's ceramic package was shaved down and new, higher Mhz details were inscribed on top. It worked, but ran very hot.

    I sell various items including coins and banknotes on eBay. All legitimate. It really irritates me when people sell clearly counterfeit Australian and American coins on there. As long as you put the word 'commemorative' somewhere in the listing eBay is 100% okay with you selling counterfeits.

    And I've received many packages over the years via eBay, and never thought to take it to a police station to open. I guess the buyer was already suspicious after getting the wrong CPU sent to them.

    • GordonD on 06/09/2024 - 11:59
      +1

      When you try to alert eBay to a fake/counterfeit product they say they have to make certain it really is. Because of an incident some years ago when a buyer complaint that the documentation on a violin was dodgy, they ruled that he be refunded by the seller, but required, in accordance with their policy on counterfeits, that the violin had to be destroyed. The documentation may well have dodgy, it may not have been made by the maker claimed, but it was still a damn good and very valuable violin. And it was destroyed. The seller didn't even get the chance to re-offer it minus the claim of who it was made by.

      • Cluster on 06/09/2024 - 12:05

        Hmm, interesting. I will have to look up that case. It doesn't make much sense to destroy the product based solely on the buyer's opinion. They could just smash another violin and pretend they destroyed the offending article.

        The problems I have are with people selling counterfeit silver dollar coins that are designed to deceive the buyer. The coin looks genuine and has no markings on it saying it's a copy. It's far cheaper than it should be. Silver is over AUD40 an ounce right now, but there are people selling fake ounce coins for $15. Yeah, right. I then see these coins turning up at local auctions. People were either scammed and are trying to dump the dodgy product onto others, or are actively trying to scam people.

        eBay has a rule that banknote copies have to be 50% too small or 150% too large, I forget the exact details. But coins? Make and sell as many counterfeits as you like.

  • Protractor on 06/09/2024 - 12:07
    +3

    ebay will do squat. It's a crooks playground, and they won't act because it thins out their profits in the end

    • Cluster on 06/09/2024 - 12:15

      The best thing the buyer can do is leave negative feedback for the sale, which the OP has done. If the seller gets enough strikes they'll close the account and move onto a new username. Rinse, repeat.

      • Protractor on 06/09/2024 - 12:39

        I've done that before with clearly false listings/items. And the neg feedback vanished after a short period. I'll bet his does too.
        I'm sure the go to position of ebay is look away or enable the fakes, as long as the punter gets his $$ back. Ethics doesn't come into it IMO.
        Feedback has lost it's sovereignty anyway. Imagine how many rellos could be recruited to dilute the bad ones.There's probs a lot of 'back scratching' going on given how many stores ppl are allowed and/or who sell the same dross.

        • Cluster on 06/09/2024 - 12:58
          +1

          Negative feedback disappears, but it takes a full year. Even if someone has hundreds of positive feedbacks, people tend to click straight to the negative one to find out what happened.

          • Protractor on 06/09/2024 - 13:10

            @Cluster: In my case way shorter than a year, and during the process involving seller and ebay, to rectify the listings false claims.
            ( I monitored regularly in the naive hope that the wording would at least change)

            And yes most ppl base pulling the trigger on what that neg feedback says. For good reason.But the reality is a lot of feedback % does not = anything tangible, any more, other than high sales levels.

            The fact that the same dodgy claims are still listed by the plethora of shops selling the same ebay fakery, shows where the moral goal posts for ebay are.

  • garetz on 06/09/2024 - 15:27

    eBay seller in China

    That's all i needed to read.

  • Italkdigital on 06/09/2024 - 18:24
    +1

    Big thanks for that OP, certainly something now myself to watch out for, so far so good buying 7000 series cpus through Aliexpress, though ive bought 2x recently i better test make sure they are legit, the 7500f and 7700 cpus

  • Windows7forever on 06/09/2024 - 18:59

    China fakes everything. I wasn't even aware of this.

    • fisherfriendman on 07/09/2024 - 16:25
      +1

      No, China makes products for all sectors of the market including those hoping to score a bargain. Some caution is necessary when purchasing products and when it is too good to be true, it very often is. Choosing a familiar onshore seller is probably much safer than an offshore seller. In fact, you get a very good deal when you visit China, in their electronics market and get a computer done just like Linus Tech Tips did in a youtube video.

  • GordonD on 07/09/2024 - 08:07
    +4

    I used the mechanism eBay provides to report counterfeits and fakes. You get one sentence to state your case. You don't get to argue it. You don't get to present any evidence. I assumed they'd get back to me to give me an opportunity to do that. They didn't.

    I got their answer back. Someone had looked at it and dismissed it. Case closed.

    That shows how serious eBay is about cracking down on fakes and counterfeits.

  • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 07/09/2024 - 17:41
    +1

    next time for significant purchases, go through a proper retailer with a proper reputation. only use third party sellers for commodity disposable items

  • DiscoJango on 07/09/2024 - 19:05
    -1

    How else are these scammers going to afford to buy up all our properties.

  • Oofy Doofy on 07/09/2024 - 19:18

    One time i bought a second hand cpu from an ebay seller in Australia.

    When i recieved it, i meticulously recorded myself unboxing, installing and doing everything properly… clear as day.

    It was DOA.

    I made a refund claim with the seller and he denied there was anything wrong with it, so it then became time for ebay to decide. I sent ebay the video and they approved my refund.

    After this happened i then started to receive death threats from the seller. An accountant, no less.

    Pretty funny.

    • wt860 on 07/09/2024 - 19:52

      That's crazy…who the hell will risk the rest of his life in prison for a few hundred bucks

  • Cave Fire on 07/09/2024 - 21:32

    This happened in first gen launch eg around 2015 - 2016. People didn't know what Ryzen looked like exactly or only had rough ideas from videos. Awareness about the fakes grew back then and it was mostly squashed. Surprising this still happens, guessing it could be same mob from hk or China. Did see someone post re Ryzen AliExpress deals (without issues) and thought i didn't need to bring up the old scam…

  • KaTst3R on 07/09/2024 - 21:44

    I thought it was gonna be an intel pentium or celeron chip underneath but having no chip at all is next level fake.

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