Do You Support A Cashless Society?

Gloria Jeans is starting to drop cash, I've noticed other shops have 'card only' signs.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/gloria-jeans-cafes-cashles…

As someone who pretty much exclusively pays card/PayPal/Bpay for stuff in 2024 I'm interested to hear on if OzBargain would support a 100% cashless society.

I'll try to be balanced. The three main argument against a cashless society are;

  1. Card surcharges the only way for businesses/consumers to 100% avoid this is via paying cash.
  2. Many 'businesses' (cough) tradies tend to do the side cash jobs giving a decent discount, anyone who has owned a house for longer then a few years would have experience with this.
  3. Some people mostly older generation just like paying in cash or do not trust the banks/government etc to use card.

The arguments for cashless are obvious it is quicker, more efficient, better for the environment, safer for businesses and consumers etc.

Do you support a cashless society?

My answer is 100% support but the government bank account guarantee needs to be set an unlimited level or much higher level (opposed to the 250k it is at now) as you essentially have no choice but to keep your money in the banks - for the record my bank account is sitting on $112 at time of posting but others might be richer then I.

Poll Options expired

  • 377
    Yes, I support a cashless society.
  • 920
    No, I do not support a cashless society.

Comments

          • @JimB: If you pay with card, there is card surcharge. The meal portion is the same for everyone whether paying with cash or card.

            • @neoleo: yeah I was just poking fun.

              "Huge portion of certain meals like for 2 people with the price of 1 meal (or 0.9 of a meal after cash discount)"

  • +12

    As long as my kids schools keep asking for gold coin donations then I still need to use cash.

    • +2

      My kids school has stopped. They now ask for donations via the schools app.

    • +1

      I love being able to say "sorry, no cash"

    • Dollarmites! I think almost everyone in Australia has a CBA account because of it.

  • +6

    All for cashless. That way all the ppl cheating the system taking cash in hand for stuff and paying no tax may finally have to pay their due without increasing the tax burden on others.

    • +33

      "Big corporate" dodges more tax than a dozen black cash economies.
      We need govts that have the gonads to end cartels like the fuel thieves long before we need to tinker around the edges. Removing cash will just assist the 'suited' thieves and money launderers.
      And what do you think the gimps in Canberra will do with all the extra taxed funds from the cash jobs? Hint, handball it to the big corporates in one form or another.

      • How does removing cash help money launderers?

        • You don't see the opportunities when the crooks head specifically and wholly to the electronic playground? Govts and corporations can't even stop pimply hackers. Optus hired the security guru their CEO recommended, and nek minnit?

          Money laundering will just change formats

          • @Protractor: Sorry, I'm just not seeing your point. I don't think you're saying that those things aren't possible now but that removing cash will make them possible??

            I also don't think you're saying that there is no cash money laundering now, and somehow going cashless increases those opportunities you mention?

            Money laundering will just change formats

            Your last statement makes sense, but I'm totally missing your point how going cashless helps money laundering??

            • -2

              @SlickMick: The focus will change. They'll be forced to get better at it (electronic laundering) That will include AI and any other upcoming tech to do it. They won't need to meet in the car ark after dark. They can cover their tracks. With yours, if they need to.

      • How does removing cash help money launderers?

        Edit: already asked by others

      • Don't worry, small business will still find a way to avoid taxes even without cash.

        • Removing cash will be a big boost to cryptocurrencies. good luck trying to stop that.

    • +2

      I know right, everyone should pay their fair share so that our already very responsible governments can fund proxy wars and subsidise billion dollar companies/big pharma companies etc. I couldn’t think of a more noble venture..

      • +12

        our already very responsible governments can

        Pay for infrastructure, health, schooling, support services including disability, aged and unemployment safety nets

        But yeah, it sounds better when you say it all just goes to "defence" and big pharma.
        :)

        • +4

          He thinks he's on USAbargain

          • @Jake D: What did I say exactly that only applies to the US and not AU?

          • -1

            @Jake D: USBargain only sells military grade weapons. Buy 1 ,get 6 free.And a list of high schools

          • +2

            @Gervais fanboy:

            you’d wanna say stuff that sounds good to the emotive mind.

            Your comments are literally textbook 'emotive mind' examples.

            • -5

              @SBOB:

              Your comments are literally textbook 'emotive mind' examples.

              Literally? lol
              And that’s all you had to say? Hmm. Nice chat.

          • -1

            @Gervais fanboy: and…Most of those sectors have (parasitic drains) cough cough companies set up by mates of the LNP to suck the life from any efficiency or humanity.
            People have discovered the pot of gold. Just migrate/lob here with a few $$$ in their back pocket, join the LNP fan club, and pump the $$ into the least work,fastest return, tax evading pseudo charities possible.
            (Or just real estate.)
            Both are troughs these days

        • -1

          @SBOB

          Pay for infrastructure, health, schooling, support services including disability

          Imagine being this much of an ivory tower, masochistic bootlicker.

          All of those services and industries are beyond repair and woefully inadequate precisely because they've been so hopelessly mismanaged and poorly-funded for decades.

          It must be nice never driving, using public transport, needing reliable energy/utilities, raising children, studying for a career, needing medical care of any kind or having much of a life to begin with outside of being OzBargain's self-appointed minister of combatting "wrongthink" but in the real-world, anyone who interacts with these facets of our government-provided services would beg to differ.

          Or do you just enjoy being bent over for the sheer vicarious thrill of it all?

        • +5

          Pay for infrastructure, health, schooling, support services including disability, aged and unemployment safety nets

          IMO those things are barely keeping up these days. There are suburbs that are relying on trucks to remove poo, bulk billing GPs are disappearing, teachers are burned out and "mega schools" are opening in Greater Western Sydney. I don't know what aged care is like but I don't think I'd want to go into an aged care home.

        • +1

          This conversation degenerated to "we shouldn't worry about collecting taxes because they get wasted anyway". There's a positive attitude to move Australia forward.

      • +4

        Not sure if you've submitted a tax return recently but you get a nice little breakdown of what it's spent on. On mine welfare (majority pensions) was 40%, health 20% and defence 8% there abouts. I'd say that's fairly reasonable.

        • +2

          On mine welfare (majority pensions) was 40%

          There are people out there who are happy to attack welfare recipients though (as they slave away at their 9-5 being KPI'd all day just so the CEO can pay themselves a multimillion dollar paycheck).

          Last I heard welfare recipients live on $40 a day or something, I mean, I don't know why that is so bothersome to people especially if people on welfare have a legitimate reason for being unable to work.

          • +2

            @Ghost47: "The forest was shrinking but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them"

          • @Ghost47: Unpopular opinion, I think anyone should be allowed to stay on welfare as long as they want. It's not like they asked to be born. and suicide is illegal.

        • "mine welfare"
          Yest Gina is the number 1 recipient. Then there's the other "mine welfare". Weapons manufacturers.Thank you Marles. Australia's new pimp is the US/ Israeli weapons industry. We are the nuclear dumping ground.And yay! We get to have fully loaded and primed B52's.

      • -1

        Russia has hypersonic nukes that can wipe all our major city in 30 minutes or less, or your nuclear apocalypse is free. If proxy war will help keep them in check then we probably should be chipping in for it. If we let Russia take Ukraine then what's next? Suppose it emboldens Russia and in the future Russia becomes a huge pain in our butts.

        • then what's next?

          We should have been asking NATO this and about their reckless expansion into the Eastern bloc for decades now.

          Russia becomes a huge pain in our butts.

          Buttpains shall only flow one way, how dare the other side ever dare retaliate.

    • There was news about 66 millionaires in Australia didn't pay income tax … They use expensive tax agent/accountant.

      https://www.9news.com.au/finance/australia-millionaires-ato-…

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-09/australian-taxation-o…

      • +1

        Well they at least spent money on managing their tax. So still some money out of pocket. And 66 vs thousands who dont pay anything for undeclared income? And not paying tax just because richer folk dont pay anything due to loopholes somehow justifies/ vilifies everybody? Lets all not pay any tax cuz these guys dont!

        Some kids rob stores and face no jail time, lets all teach our kids to rob!

        What more lifehacks can we adopt from such clever people?

    • +2

      Rubbish, what a stupid statement, do you really think that the majority of cash based transactions involve some sort of tax fraud? some does and that is the cost of doing business right? if you have any feeling about keeping your personal information personal, then going cashless means the banks, the government (if they request) and any third parties that the bank sells too, know your purchase history and where you spend all your money. Awesome for the health insurer who decides that because you go to "Daniels Donuts" every three days - your dental and hospital cover is going to sky rocket, or you car insurer decides that you fill up at the servo every 3 days therefore your mileage is too high for them to insure you.

      Cashless is not about tax take, cashless is about knowing what you do and when you do it that information is priceless - how did Facebook build one of the most valuable shit heap (I mean Social media) enterprises on the planet? how did Google? its your information that provides them the revenue, also won't it be great when the internet fails in an area and no one can trade.

      • -2

        do you really think that the majority of cash based transactions involve some sort of tax fraud?

        Of course they do, do you really think that when you pay a tradie cash he is reporting this income? Or when you pay at your local fish and chip shop with cash that this is going into the bank and being reported as income? Heck I knew someone who ran a busy CBD cafe and cash was simply not reported, it was just split among the owners, how nice of them to just make all this extra tax free income while their staff presumably had to pay tax like everyone else.

        Honestly, comments like yours that 'omg insurance will deny you insurance because you bought donuts' is just so deep down a conspiracy theory hole it is ridiculous. Do you really think a bank will sell your identifiable information and purchase history? How to lose customers fast 101 if you ask me.

        • As an avid Facebook marketplace purchaser would you rather a PAYID payment or cash? I will only accept cash and I pay cash to others because I have seen way too many people try and scam with PayID.

          I pay tax on my income, having cash in my wallet is my prerogative….. I will never be stuck paying for something unless change is an issue and I will have a track of the money I spent easily because it is in my wallet. On top of this how much additional cost does an electronic payment incur? somewhere between 0.5 - 5% (taxi drivers!)

          It is not my job to monitor whether the government gets their 'share' of a tradie who does a job cheaper for cash either, yes this is tax avoidance but I might hire 1 tradie per year vs the above which I do all the time.

          To be a conspiracy theorist would require some form of authoritarian interference, these are banks not authorities, they make money, you don't know what they do and neither do I.

          What stops them selling/sharing data with orgs like Dun and Bradstreet - it has happened before and it equals $$$ to their bottom line - not a conspiracy just a way to make money. One slap on the wrist and they will back off after the fact, did they sell insurance to people who didn't need or ask for it? oh thats a YES! did they slap people with fees that were unreasonable - oh thats a YES too ….. why would you trust a bank?

          • @mikekiwimike: Everyone will eventually be using cryptocurrencies. you won't have a choice unless you want to use gold and silver for barter.

        • you don't need a bank to sell your identifiable information and purchase history.
          It might be some clerk or as simple as someone hack the bank. I'm getting messages "sorry we were hacked , but don't worry …" quite often

        • @Nebargains - I think this speaks more about you, you certainly have trust issues in general and look down on people in those professions for you have that view of them. If people that work in those jobs and professions have more money than you do they must be doing something illegal, right?

          My father is a retired tradesman, he was a carpenter/builder for his entire adult life, he was very successful at it because he worked hard, harder than the majority of people, and he is quite wealthy because of it, and the smart decisions he has made with his money. He retired at 58 when he was diagnosed with cancer, he is now 69. He is a self funded retiree who isn’t and has never been entitled to a cent from the Government/Services Australia despite still having cancer and surviving quite well with it for over a decade. He was often paid in cash by his clients, and he declared every cent.

          Our family is from New Zealand, dad and I were talking recently about fish and chip shops in Australia in 2024 and how many of them are now owned and run by Asians, and how their work ethic is second to none. You assume they’re dodgy and have committed tax fraud to gain their wealth, when the truth is more likely that they’re just extremely hard workers who work long hours, and are much harder workers than you are.

  • +4

    Cash for the win! I used to love using card so I didn't have to deal with loose coins… but the final straw for me was finding out that basically all the fuel stations that I use slap on a card surcharge (whether you insert and go through Eftpos or tap and go through Mastercard/Visa).

    • -1

      You know, there is a solution to your problem that would have allowed you to keep using the card and not dealing with loose coins and not paying a surcharge.

      I avoid businesses that don't accept cards, and I avoid businesses that charge a fee for using card.
      I do have 3 cards though: one to maximise reward points, one that doesn't attract as many points but more often doesn't attract a surcharge, and a debit card as a last resort.
      I'll never pay to use a debitcard.

  • +3

    In 20 years, the concept of little pieces of plastic to trade for goods and services will seem very antiquated.

    • +2

      Because it will be a device or implanted chip or biometric interface, or because we'll be back to bartering and using weighed precious metals?

      • +1

        In 20 years? It will be biometric for sure, like an eye scan.

        That or exchanging pelts in a nuclear wasteland.

  • +1

    Had my car PPF'd, $5500 for eft, $4200 for Cash lol, and we all know why!!! Avoid tax!! haha

  • +2

    Will the homeless start accepting PayPass?
    And how will I ever keep my windscreen clean?

    • QR codes like china.
      I don't know what percent the banks charge when I bought a beer for under $1 but I wasn't charged a fee from a mum and pop convenient store.

      • Wonder what happen when there is network problem that people cannot pay with QR codes … What will you do when you want to pay for a beer or anything but there is a network problem that you cannot pay with QR codes or even Visa/MasterCard network is down etc.? Cash as backup …

  • For businesses, allowing cash comes at a cost for them, just like cards do. They should be able to charge a fee for cash as they can for cards to recover the costs

    • +5

      They should at least recognise that there are costs to the business either way (albeit one being somewhat more indirect), not charge any surcharges, and price accordingly.

    • -1

      Oh really?

      So the business charging a surcharge on Eftpos payments whilst offering little discounts on cash payments must be completely insane then.

      • +1

        All I’m saying is the RBA should allow businesses the option to surcharge for cash. It’s up to each business to decide if they do or not.

      • Not necessarily completely insane, just not considering thier true cost of doing business.
        If they knew what they were losing to staff theft, lost time due to picking up diseases from handling cash, having to reconcile the cash drawer and organise the float, it turns out eftpos costs are a bargain.

    • Another reason preferring cash over card is the business can use the cash received straight away on the same day if needed especially small business. With card payments, it takes days to receive the money, not same day in company's bank account … Cashflow is important for businesses. Time value of money if you understand.

      • -1

        Most businesses get the funds within 24hrs.

  • +2

    Already being forced into it. I can't deposit cash into my Macquarie account. There's no ATM's within 15km of me to deposit into my NAB or Westpac accounts. Luckily, I've just discovered that I can deposit cash into my accounts at AusPost stores.

    • The "big 4" banks signed a deal to allow fee-free withdrawls and balance checks on their ATMs for all "big 4" customers.

      Many banks (although notably not ANZ) signed up with Auspost for withdrawls (and I think deposits).

      Some non-bank ATMs (atmx for example) also have fee-free withdrawls and balance checks for some banks.

  • +8

    I'm all for going cashless as soon as all businesses stop charging surcharges!

    Going away from cash = they have less discrepancies and not needing to handle cash, and tallying up at the end of the day… everything is done via software… so why are consumers paying for additional convenience?

  • +5

    Cashless all the way.

    Cash is a pain in the ass. It's easy to lose, requires dealing with change and finding uses for the change, if you want to earn interest you have to then find a bank/ATM somewhere to deposit it, it's slow/inefficient compared to paying by card, you don't earn any rewards points or anything for it, it presents a security risk for businesses, it presents an operational challenge for businesses (having to deposit excess cash, having to have small notes on hand for larger cash payments), and lastly it's an easy way to avoid paying tax (which might be a benefit for some).

    Honestly besides avoiding some CC surchages (pay by EFTPOS solves this), for trying to avoid the government/wanting to not be traceable as you're a conspiracy nut, or for tax evasion, there's not much going for cash. And most of the pros aren't exactly amazing pros.

    • +1

      Another reason certain businesses especially small businesses prefer cash over card is the business can use the cash received straight away on the same day if needed. With card payments, it takes days to receive the money, not same day in company's bank account … Cashflow is important for businesses. Time value of money if you understand.

      • +2

        We used to run a convenience store and dealing with cash every day was a massive pain in the ass.

        Daily trips to the banks for drop off's, and always worried about storing it and the threat of being robbed (and we did lose about $30,000 over a few robberies, this was over 20 years ago now as well so worth more than $30,000 now).

        Cashflow is important for sure, but if your business is so on the line of failing because it can't last a few days without money in then it's likely going to fail anyway. I'm sure in a low % of cases it's enough to save the business/keep it running, but most of the time your business is already dead there.

  • +3

    Gift cards are my main form of payment.

    • +2

      Easiest way to pay your taxes, too

  • +20

    The hypocrisy of small businesses claiming that taking card costs them money because of bank fees while completely ignoring the costs of cash really irritates me.

    It completely fails to account for the cost of wages for staff that have to count the till and float at the start and end of the day and the time it takes an employee to take that cash to the bank; not to mention the risks with cash of theft, human error giving incorrect change or counter fitting.

    I’m not saying these two costs are necessarily equal but the belief that it costs nothing to accept cash and 1.5% to take card is bullshit.

    • +2

      There's a cafe near my work that has signs up about preferring cash. They fail to acknowledge that they EFT their staffs wages, EFT their suppliers bills, and have to deposit the cash they receive at a bank to be able to pay their staff and suppliers.

      • No, they don't want all cash, they want enough eftpos to run the business. The cash is for the tax-free profits. Paying cash is like giving the owners a tip, though the staff are probably helping themselves to a tip first.

    • There's a different perspective in that the cost of handling cash is fixed and sunk. It costs the same to accept 5 cents in cash as it does to accept $500 or $5000. The moment cash is accepted the cost to handle cash is in most cases fixed unless dealing with extremely large sums everyday preferring and/or requiring armoured transfer but that's also another fixed and sunk cost that is triggered when cash flow is over a certain amount. Whereas the cost of accepting card is incremental, every additional $ accepted has an additional cost on top of fixed costs such as terminal hire and thermal paper.

      If a business chooses to accept cash then it's easy for them to incorporate the cost of accepting cash into their operating costs, and every dollar accepted via card is an additional cost that they have to recoup.

      Yes I am aware with cash there is a theft and loss risk but for easiness sake that's ignored. And yes there are merchants that offer free terminal hire and paper, also ignoring that for easiness sake.

      • +2

        I’d argue it’s easier to factor an incremental cost into setting prices, eg if I know that I will pay 1.5% on every coffee I sell then I’ll increase the prices of everything by 1.5% and I’m covered regardless of sales volume
        But I see your point

        • -1

          In which case you just disclose what the percentage is and charge it at the till, ala CC surcharging.

          • +1

            @Trance N Dance: exactly, I don't understand the mentality of people wanting to hide the costs. no surcharge doesn't mean they will eat the cost, they will just raise prices and you will no longer know if they are overcharging you surcharge wise. people seem to like living in ignorant bliss.

            • +1

              @gromit: There was a recent law passed that airlines cannot show a silly ticket price like $1 and tack on various fees at the very last step.

              This cafe nonsense is the same situation but in a smaller scale but happens more often and everyday. Show the price with the surcharge when I tap, so I know what is being deducted. What instead happens is that the POS terminal shows $10 and the CC statement shows a larger amount. How is that legal?

              • @soan papdi: generally most of the terminals actually show the surcharge as well, the cafes I use it shows up. usually flashes up $6 then updates to $6.06

            • @gromit: The point is cash costs a business more than cashless, so why should eftpos customers pay more than cash customers.

              I get that cash handling is a fixed cost. But eftpos customers are doing thier part to allow the business avoid that cost, so shouldn't have to contribute to covering the cost. Let cash customers pay thier share of the costs of doing cash business, and let eftpos customers pay the cost of doing cashless transactions. Prices would be cheaper for eftpos.

              If businesses want to avoid the cost of accepting cash, they should go cashless.

              • @SlickMick: generally it is because cash has a fixed cost so they can build it into their price if they are a cash accepting business, eftpos et al is a cost on top of that and is variable by card type, so even though you are paying by card you are also paying the cash cost of the business. cashless in theory should allow lower prices, reality is though it would just be more profit.

      • The advantages of eftpos kick in when you go cashless and avoid all of the costs you mentioned, including the ones you ignored for easiness sake.

    • Another reason preferring cash over card is the business can use the cash received straight away on the same day if needed. With card payments, it takes days to receive the money, not same day in company's bank account … Cashflow is important for businesses. Time value of money if you understand.

      • +2

        this really isn't true anymore and is provider dependent. Many providers now give the business the cash in bank account the same day.

        • -3

          For restaurants that open until night, that means they will receive the payment from customers next day at least …

          • +2

            @neoleo: for restaurants open until night they are better off without cash as it is expensive to secure and keep cash overnight and it isn't like they need the cash when closed.

  • +20

    No I do not want a Cashless society.

    There are many legitimate reasons for needing to handle money in physical form, some are :

    1) Paying for Strippers.
    2) Paying for Hookers.
    3) Hiding money outside of a marriage.
    4) Sales and purchases on Gumtree and FBMP.

    • +1

      5) rolling a note to assist with snorting some coke

    • 6) Playing poker or other games at the casino while trying to hide your gambling habit

    • 7) Hiding purchases from your abusive partner (e.g DV)

    • 8) Washing dirty money through Pokies. It was in the news …

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