Does not surprise me to be honest. Would you still buy the boots?
Remember we are looking for a bargain, RM Williams are generally not a bargain but based off quality of material….
RM Williams Dragged over Declining Quality of Boots
iNeed2Pee on 19/08/2024 - 11:06
Last edited 19/08/2024 - 13:20 by 2 other users
Last edited 19/08/2024 - 13:20 by 2 other users
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Synthetic. Might as well call it vegan leather.
Gross
Approx 550 grams
lol, did you ask ChatGPT or something? None of that is true.
It's owned by Tattarang, Twiggy Forrest's company, and he's transferring all production back to Australia after Louis Vuitton owned it and moved some overseas. The quality issues have nothing to do with China and all cost cutting by Tattarang.
Good.
same with other previously high quality footwear….its all crap now with an expensive brand name
I once lashed out on the most expensive shoes I'd ever bought - I think Lloyds - which I'd heard was a top brand of English dress shoes
within months the sole separated from the shoe - I went to a Melbourne Italian shoe repair guy - who looked at it and started shouting at me - that they were RUBBISH! and not repairable
I was WTF !? … I thought these were supposed to be top quality !?
He said 'used to be - now gone downhill - not worth even repairing'
That was an OW! moment about famous brand quality - just because it was excellent before - doesn't mean it's any good now - can be quite the opposite.
Not true at all. Crockett and Jones are as good as ever. Higher end English made shoes will also last a decade of regular wear, if not decades. "Lloyds", as per the comment here, were never in the same league. Then again, neither were RM Williams.
He is comparing 2 different designs; Comfort Craftsman against the Craftsman. Then says the quality/construction between the 2 are different…Well you don't say. That isn't a fair comparison.
Comfort Craftsman is designed for comfort so the materials are all designed towards comfort and range between $649 - $699.
The Craftsman ranges from $649 - $4,999.
He is comparing 2 different designs; Comfort Craftsman against the Craftsman. Then says the quality/construction between the 2 are different…Well you don't say. That isn't a fair comparison.
Yeah, that was my first pickup, they're two very different designs.
Admittedly the incorporation of fake leather and thinner leather liner doesn't bode well though.
It doesn't matter.
If you're making the boot out of cheaper materials, and your competition is making a very comparable boot with similar materials, you're ripping people off by charging that much money.
On top of that, the construction is simply not suited towards longevity OR repairability. The insole situation alone isn't great. So if you have a boot that's cheaper to make, won't last as long, can't be repaired properly, etc etc, then you should be charging less.
If you're making the boot out of cheaper materials, and your competition is making a very comparable boot with similar materials, you're ripping people off by charging that much money.
I feel they're moving away from a long lasting boot and trading off the brand name now. I mean you only get to sell 1 boot every 10 years at the moment.
You skimp on the quality and suddenly you're selling one every 3 years.Genius business move.
Then sales start to drop due to poor quality (unless people are stupid).
Then sales start to drop due to poor quality (unless people are stupid).
The brand name will continue to give them a boost for years to come until people cotton on.
Or not. I mean, look at Seiko in the watch world. There are better watches based on spec (hello, sapphire glass) for half the price but they still sell like hotcakes because "Seiko"
I feel they're moving away from a long lasting boot and trading off the brand name now. I mean you only get to sell 1 boot every 10 years at the moment.
You skimp on the quality and suddenly you're selling one every 3 years.This is how most good quality businesses go when they've been bought out by someone wanting to maximise profits. They take the brand name and try to ride off it for as long as possible (MG I'm looking at you).
There's not much room in capitalist societies for a large company that makes good quality products that last for decades. The system incentivises them to make poorer quality products, not better quality that last longer.
@smartazz104: Very true. MGs may have been fun, but quality or reliability was never a strength. Everyone one I know who's owned an MG (pre-resurrection) has had a love/hate relationship with their car.
The comfort craftsman boot on their website is $649.
The craftsman boot on their website is also $649.
Seems like a fair comparison
Comfort Craftsman is designed for comfort so the materials are all designed towards comfort and range between $649 - $699. The Craftsman ranges from $649 - $4,999.
Oddly enough the YT algorithm threw that video at me last week, and I watched it. Last time I watched that guy's videos was 3+ years ago.
My takeaway was the the Comfort Craftsman is… terrible. A glued foam innersole is just shite- there's no excuse for it in a pair of boots that costs over $500. I've owned a couple pairs of RMs, as well as Euro-made hiking boots that cost in the same ballpark. None of them used glued foam innersoles because they were designed last for a decade or thereabouts.
If I buy a model with the same name and "comfort" tacked on I expect the same quality but to pay a little more for more comfort. not the same for less quality.
I wouldn't be buying that particular model. Before considering purchase, I'd want some assurance that what i'm buying is repairable, quality materials, and sufficiently durable.
I've been half tempted by a pair of RM Williams for years but I think I would be very unlikely to use them enough to justify purchase.
Forget wearing them, I’d be so worried I scuffed them then be forever salty.
The people usually I see wearing them always have pairs that look literally showroom new.. then I have a client who wears the hell out of them and it’s just scuffed to hell all over… probably the way it was intended I guess
If I bought them, they would be mostly for low-risk situations. I don't think i'd really care that much about minor scuffs or at least didn't last time I wore leather shoes on a regular basis.
As for the way it was intended, I can't help but think about some criticisms i've read of office workers wearing them.
If I bought them, they would be mostly for low-risk situations.
I have never figured out what RMs were designed for… they are terrible in the countryside, especially if it's wet. They're really best on city streets- concrete and asphalt, so ironically they work best as officewear.
@ihfree: They used to have a wedge heel (maybe still do?) that was for horse riding. This was in the 70s.. Then they got trendy for city hobby farmers then office types.
@ihfree: 'designed for horse riding'
maybe - my childhood recollection was they were really hard to pull on - needing to grab both front and back strap loops above the opening and then pull with all my might to get the heel to slide down past the tight opening
I'll guess that was to prevent the boot from coming off in the stirrups of a horse
@rumblytangara: Horse riding and general farm hand work.
If it’s wet or muddy the wellies would come out.
This is based on my wife’s family who have stud farms near port Macquarie and crop farms southwestern NSW.
I’d never buy RM’s for my office job.@ColtNoir: I can get behind the horse riding idea, but I find RMs to be inferior to even sneakers for walking up a simple grassy slope. Especially if there's dew on the ground (I'm not going to change shoes for a light drizzle).
I've had both the leather and the synthetic soled versions.
@rumblytangara: If you need to walk up a small grassy hill, you’re taking your quad.
The family farms are largely flat, being that they’re for horses or crops. If they’re going between paddocks they’re using horses or quads. I guess it’s something they’re used to as you can’t have grippy shoes while riding, so they just deal with it when they’re not on a horse.
@ColtNoir: That… actually explains a lot about their design. I've been wondering about this for a while- two decades of ownership, but the shoes are grossly inferior than sneakers or hiking boots once you're off the footpath. They're like trying to walk in, well, office shoes.
Especially with the leather soles, which don't deal well with getting wet.
as you can’t have grippy shoes while riding
I know nothing about riding but why is this the case? I would imagine you'd want to grip to the stirrups and not the opposite?
@Smol Cat: I thought that too when my wife taught me to ride. You balance your foot in the stirrup using the balls of your feet, not the arch which most people try to do the first time, so a bit of practice and you don’t notice it.
To your question, you don’t want grip in case you get bucked/fall off your horse. You want your foot to come out, not get stuck and dragged along, trampled, or twist and break an ankle.
@ColtNoir: 'you can’t have grippy shoes while riding'
ah - that makes sense - a grippy shoe could be precipitous trying to get your foot back into a swinging stirrup with a fractious horse in motion …
thus the smooth leather sole that I remember from my childhood
Try Gina Rinehart Boots. Excellent, top stitched so they're repairable.
(PS Used to be Rossi ;-))
Still are Rossi, just owned by Gina.
A bit of my piss poor sarcasm. But you knew that, right? ;-)
Actually Gina’s boots would be too thin skinned to be of any use.
I'm waiting for the new "kick your kids" range.
Apparently she is going into partnership with Murdoch to create the “Parent knows best” and “Rule from beyond the grave” colours.
I have old heavy cotton double stitched shirts from Rivers, bought 20-25 years ago. Still very wearable.
My favourite schlepping about boots are Rivers, bought at their Tamworth store during a road trip. $15.00!! some fire damage to the boots in 2018, but otherwise still giving good wear,
We have to ask "what went wrong for Rivers?".
I bought some RMWilliams-similar pull-on leather boots from KMart that I wore for 25 years until they gave up the ghost - not sure if they cost $25, but it was a small fraction of the RMWilliams price at the time.
They were shit 10 years ago. I guess they've gone even more downhill now. What a shame.
This. RM Williams decline in quality is not news
Cheers
No company is immune to becoming shit over time.
Unfortunately some brands are held to such a high standard by fans and people needing to justify spending stupid money that their supporters will end up attacking others for pointing out that the quality of the company is getting worse.
R.M. Williams is just going down that route - they haven't been worth $500 or even $300 for a long time now. As others point out, you are paying a premium for the brand, not the quality.
Its not limited to the boots. Was in Adelaide locale recently (wont say which, just makes life hard for staff) and they were commenting that the expectations that everyone had that the brand would dump this fashion luxury push just hasnt materialised.
Theyre still losing core Aussie clients because even though they are technically sizing up to 56 and XB for men, the cuts and fits are all wrong. Staff know it, customers know it but apparently big bosses arent paying attention.
Anyone have any recommendations for similar "Corporate Cowboy" boots which are good quality/resoleable/long lasting etc?
I would have a look around the Herring Shoes UK Website. Their shipping is fast. I suppose the only issue is if they don't fit you would be up for return shipping https://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&s…
I've been burned before, taking a punt by buying shoes online can be fraught with danger.
Yeah fair enough. I'm fortunate enough that their sizes are reliable enough for me to order with confidence.
Herring is very good and they have a good returns (make sure you get yhe $15 return option)
That being said they’ve become very expensive in recent years and the quality has dropped of their cheap in house stuff
The UK made herring shoes are still excellent (even if they have shot up in price)
Not sure what you mean by "Corporate Cowboy" boots, but I've been wearing Rossi boots since the 70s. They are diminished since losing the Army contract a few years ago. I fear they'll go the way of Rivers. But for the moment quality boots, AU made, can still be had. There are often bargains if you can accept "seconds".
I'm reluctant to buy footwear on line. Rossi have a Melbourne shop front. I use their Churchill Road shop in ADL.
Is the store called Slatters or is it a Rossi store? I can't find it on Google Maps.
There is a list of resellers here https://rossiboots.com.au/stockist-locator/ but it looks like the Factory Outlet I last bought from is no more. Bummer.
Another one bites the dust.
Thank you going to check these guys out
note that they're no longer made there / in Australia, such that their signature boot, Henry Baxter, is discontinued :(
@tonester: At $399 I’m pretty disappointed they are made overseas. I would buy in a heartbeat if made in AU
@tonester: Oh no. I just went thought the website picked what I want and I read this. Thanks for the heads up
Any other options good something I can buy made in Australia? I was looking at the Clydesdale version since I need a wide fit.
@MrBr0: If you've got the cash to spend look at Wootten's.
https://wootten.com.au/shop/#.product-category-boots
Not cheap but Australian made.
@shutuptakemymoney101: that's bespoke/custom-made - a different kettle of fish, and new can of worms :)
I've had a pair of Baxter Patrol boots for about 2 years now. Don't wear them super often, but they've been good so far
Can't help with a specific brand, but my sister buys "corporate cowboy" boots from the States. They're a very common item especially in states like Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, etc. Lots of manufacturers. Quality is very good. Pricing is expensive, but not ridiculously so.
Do you know any particular brands they recommend?
what a billionaire buying an iconic brand and turning it budget but still charging a premium
nup, never, never heard of a billionaire doing such a thing
Why give this "social influencer" more credit ???
As already pointed out …
1.) YouTube article (which news article references) … Tries to draw comparisons/differences between "comfort craftsman" + "craftsman" … But they are not the same type of boot - 100% designed for different types of markets !!!
2.) ulterior motives … If look deeper into their background, will find that he has a vested interest… Into not giving a proper unbiased story
Just saying.
Personally - never bought RM, even back in the day of horseriding +++ shows … It was always Blundstone boots.
But feel this hate towards RM is unjustified, then hyped by a MINOR news site.
I think there might be some merit to your argument. It'd be more interesting to compare a 4+ year old Comfort Craftsman to a current Comfort Craftsman. In this video he's comparing apples to oranges…
1.) YouTube article (which news article references) … Tries to draw comparisons/differences between "comfort craftsman" + "craftsman" … But they are not the same type of boot - 100% designed for different types of markets !!!
So ignore the comparison then. Just look at the Comfort Craftsman using substandard materials that guarantee that it can't be repaired. Does that change anything?
2.) ulterior motives … If look deeper into their background, will find that he has a vested interest… Into not giving a proper unbiased story
What ulterior motives- how are they relevant to cutting a boot apart and looking at the raw materials? How do ulterior motives change anything?
The only other video I remember from that guy are for an older pair of RMs where he is incredibly complimentary about them. How did ulterior motives influence this?
So now they're just like a fancy European car. Expensive, yet crap. Mostly for impressing people.
Will these expensive boots complement my high yield investment Mercedes AMG G63?
Sadly no. You’re trying to blend entry level Finance Bro with Drug dealer chic
I thought RMW being exclusively for yuppies was common knowledge now
More reason to look after my 12 years old boot !!!
they are ugly anyway. Typical aussie fashion
Wouldn't want to be seen wearing these anyway.
Much prefer well built shoes from UK boot makers.UK customers have the exact same issues as we have here in Australia, look at Doc Martens as an example.
With Doc Martens you either buy the overseas made shoes or mortgage your house and kids to purchase from the very limited range of Made in England collection.
How to say that you don't actually know anything about footwear but want to be a snob about it:
they are ugly anyway. Typical aussie fashion
and
Wouldn't want to be seen wearing these anyway.
Much prefer well built shoes from UK boot makers.Like what?
RMs are just Chelsea boots. Which, as the name might suggest to anyone who has been outside of the country, a style of boot developed in England.
Like Loake, Barker, Cheaney?
RM Williams is becoming a chavvy brand unless you haven't noticed.
It was a rhetorical question- I'm already familiar with those brands having considered them whilst in I was in the UK. Still ended up with RMs though because the fancy Nottingham-based companies use two-piece construction for their boot uppers.
Severely doubt that RMs have made it into the chav fashion scene- they're still pretty obscure in the UK and they just look like any other boringly middle-class Chelsea boot. RMs are just JAFA boots in the UK.
@rumblytangara: I used to work at the RMs store on Regent st London (since moved to Soho) . Fun place to work, except the inhouse music would play on repeat every 35 minutes so I'd here the same songs 15 times a day.
Found them UK boots saggy.
LOL…
Hope the poor guy won't get drowned in a defamation lawsuit… (Such as what happened to this fellow )
RM Williams still make very high quality 'comfort' boots, but you have to pay extra for the limited run variants like: Rigger Commando, Gardener Commando and Kingscote which all have the thick, storm-welted, leather midsole. Storm-welting by the way, is superior welting to the one used on their mainline… If you are worried for comfort, these aforementioned variants come with added foam on the insoles and a grippy rubber traction outsole either stitched and/or cemented onto the leather midsole. Which makes these boots highly resoleable and very long lasting just like the RM pairs of old.
And these are some of the least RM-like boots you can buy despite being far higher quality than their mainline.
https://nungar.com.au/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=14
waiting for these to Re-Stock, so far heard good things
That's why I've swapped over to these…