Anyone with Experience in Assisted Living / Retirement Village

coffeeinmyveins on 23/07/2024 - 23:15
Last edited 24/07/2024 - 10:20 by 1 other user

Our parents are in their 70s and the suggestion of assisted living facilities has come up because mum is going through chemo and things are tough

I've done a lot of research and I'm of the mind that they should stay in their home as long as possible until they need aged care which might not be for a decade

I've read about that horror stories of aveo and other providers doing a magic trick on entry fees and reducing $800k into practically nothing and I don't want that for them

They are interested in Baptist Care in Kellyville. Does anyone have experience with this particular facility or assisted living in general?

IMO the benefits offered by these retirement village are mostly laughable and don't justify the insane costs at all

Home & Garden

Comments

  • MS Paint on 23/07/2024 - 23:22
    -4

    I've read about that horror stories of aveo and other providers doing a magic trick on entry fees and reducing $800k into practically nothing and I don't want that for them

    I've read about that horror stories of aveo and other providers doing a magic trick on entry fees and reducing $800k into practically nothing and I don't want to lose my inheritance that way

    FTFY

    • Some Human on 24/07/2024 - 00:16

      Ngl i read it like that, too

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 08:15
      +12

      Is not having any inheritence part of it? Yes
      Is that a problem? No

      Trying to retain family wealth and not having it go to a billion dollar predatory industry is not a bad thing.

      Don't know why you're trying to paint me like a money grubbing person when you don't know anything about our situation beyond this post.

      The issues with aveo are also well beyond any financial things, if you even care to look into it.

      But hey, I'm the (profanity) right?

      • MS Paint on 24/07/2024 - 09:24
        +1

        I was just having a lend. Sorry to offend you.

        Also I have looked into it. My parents are an aveo village and I've never seen them happier and more social. Good for them I reckon. RIP to my inheritance.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 09:33

          I was just having a lend. Sorry to offend you.

          Thanks, sorry, I may have over-reacted there. It's a difficult time, as I'm sure you know having gone through it yourself.

          My parents are an aveo village

          Are they caught up in what's been going on with Aveo?

          never seen them happier and more social

          That's the ultimate goal regardless of the situation. I can't imagine having them in a nursing home where they just look at a wall.

          • MS Paint on 24/07/2024 - 09:45

            @coffeeinmyveins: What's the latest aveo news?

            My old man is an ex financial controller and been investing his whole life. They moved in expected to be shafted financially but the lifestyle benefits were enormous plus plus if either partner dies they are all setup. They still travel a lot (further rip to my inheritance 😉) and the security aspects of leaving a home vacant for months at a time is one less stress for them.

            • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 09:48

              @MS Paint: I think there was a settlement last year with the class action that went on. Reading some of the stories from the residents involved was pretty sad. One guy fell and was left for 5 days until a cleaner found him even though the front staff were called by a friend, they never checked up on him.

              but the lifestyle benefits were enormous

              Are you referring to access to things like tours, other residents etc? Our parents aren't really social at the best of times, so I'm trying to work out what actually benefits them.

              • MS Paint on 24/07/2024 - 09:58

                @coffeeinmyveins: They moved in about 5 years ago. The class action settlement was about 12 months ago.

                My parents are still pretty fit and healthy (touch wood). They have made a heap of new friends/social acquaintances and old man is on the social committee as treasurer. The residents seem to look out for each other better than the managers. They do have fobs they can use in an emergency but while there is two of them still alive they don't wear them.

                They are yet to use any higher care/assisted living services there yet so I can't genuinely comment on that aspect.

            • Baysew on 24/07/2024 - 10:23

              @MS Paint:

              What's the latest aveo news?

              Some old Aveo news

  • Benoffie on 23/07/2024 - 23:27
    +1

    Honestly they are all geared tgat way unless you qualify for a Commonwealth Supported Place. Currently MIL has just gone into a home due to dementia (early 70s) and the cost was $550k plus entitlements plus $3500 a month. We're not likely to see much of that $550k at the end of it.

    If possible, try Dom Care and similar services. Your Mums hospital respite team should be able to organise an assessment and then connect with in home support. In SA, this even includes at home hospital treatments.

  • screensaver on 24/07/2024 - 03:10

    There are serviced apartments that are cheaper, its a smallish buy in price and fee covers services inc meals etc

    • screensaver on 24/07/2024 - 03:24

      This is from one that cost 125000 (its been taken)
      Rent Assistance Eligibility:
      Do you receive the Age Pension? If so, you may be eligible for rent assistance to cover some of the monthly services fees from Services Australia (previously Centrelink) if you purchase this property as it is under the threshold of $242,000. Visit https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/rent-assistance for more information.
      Glad to find this out, I didnt know that

  • morse on 24/07/2024 - 04:21
    +3

    I have no experience with that particular place but as you would have seen in the media a lot of people get burnt with maintenance fees, exit fees and the line with these kind of places. That said there are some good ones and it can be good to move younger to make friends and get settled.

    In the meantime: Get your mum (and possibly dad also) an ACAT assessment ASAP and look for services that can come into the home. You can get subsidised cleaning, shopping, transport, gardening assistance through My Aged Care https://www.myagedcare.gov.au/ the ACAT assessment will work out whether a package or just paying per service via CHSP is better. Sometimes there’s a waiting time for a package so CHSP can be used whilst waiting. You might also be able to do some tidying and rearranging around the house to make it easier to clean and get around. An occupational therapist could have a look and provide advice re this, which can also be organised through MAC. Since she’s receiving cancer care you might also be able to get an occupational therapist through your local health district - ask your oncologist, cancer care nurse or GP what is available in your area. If you live nearby help out by doing meal prep for them, so they have healthy meals on hand in the freezer to just to heat in the microwave (my dad protested this but then loved the meals). You could also look at a meal delivery service if you can’t help. Make sure they have their EPOA sorted so if they can no longer make decisions it’s not super difficult https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/planning-for… However if they make you and or your siblings EPOA do not screw them over by withholding residential or other aged care that would be better for them to save your inheritance or subsidised rent. Sorry but I have to say this as it is so common that adult children have a vested interest in keeping parents at home and elders end up having falls, incontinent, malnourished etc which could have been avoided with good aged care when appropriate. Also make sure they have a good GP. Look into exercise programs for both parents, this will help with their mobility and keeping them at home, some cancer services will have a physiotherapist that can advise on exercises, there’s also often community exercise classes or they can access a subsided exercise physiologist via a chronic disease management plan (set up with GP) to prescribe a program.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 08:42
      +3

      Thanks for the reply.

      Yep we're going through the process of getting an ACAT assessment at the moment. It's long and painful, and shouldn't be like this for elderly people but we're helping as much as we can.

      All your other points are valid and we're doing that.

      We do a load of cooking, mow their lawn, do their washing and we recently had a stairlift installed (two story house) to mitigate the stairs being an issue.

      Make sure they have their EPOA sorted

      Thank you! I'll read into this.

      do not screw them over by withholding residential or other aged care that would be better for them to save your inheritance or subsidised rent

      yeah nah, we're not like that. We're well off enough ourselves and don't need the money at all. For us (contrary to another reply from someone here) it's about getting them the best care based on their needs. At the moment their needs can be subsidised by our time (which we're doing) and looking into these inhome care package things.

      At the moment aged care isn't suitable, but it very well may be one day soon. if that's in 6 months, a year or 5 years I don't know, but it's not suitable right now .

      At the end of the day it's their money and their choice, we just want them to have the best end of life experience they can, whatever that means.

      They worked hard for their money, left a country that was in the midst of a war and lost relatives themselves, so they've come a long way and now's the time they get taken care of.

      • JohnSy on 24/07/2024 - 12:10

        From memory, this podcast episode on Aged Care from Retire Right touched on some of the government subsidised services available.

        https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/retire-right/id1588980…

      • morse on 25/07/2024 - 00:56

        Good to hear. Sounds like you’re doing all the right things. Definitely look into EPOA. It makes things a whole lot easier if either or both parents lose their capacity to make decisions due to dementia or something else. They can control the circumstances in which it comes into effect and what it includes (eg financial, medical etc). It has to be set up before the person is impaired so now sounds like the time. My mum had dementia and didn’t set one up prior so when dad passed away it was extremely difficult to do basic things done for her until we got guardianship in place which involved a tribunal, fees etc. Even just getting access to bills to find out how much was owing or talk to council about their property etc. EPOA in advance is the way to go. Everyone should have one, even young people, as long as you have people you can trust to act in your interest.

  • mapax on 24/07/2024 - 06:32

    Have you checked if their council offers discounted help in the home services?

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 08:43

      I had a brief look but couldn't find anything. I'll look again, thanks.

  • AngoraFish on 24/07/2024 - 08:46

    Stay at home as long as possible. Investigate this program before you do anything else https://www.seniorsonline.vic.gov.au/services-information/he…

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 09:49

      Yeah that's the general consensus I'm seeing from everyone but there's a lot to read into about the "as long as possible" and when it's time.

      • AngoraFish on 24/07/2024 - 13:51

        As someone who just put a 92 year old into a nursing home, it's time was literally because she kept falling and not being able to get up again, had nobody there to call the ambulance, and refused to wear an emergency necklace. Even then, it's not been a pleasant experience. She keeps asking if she can go home and is probably going to die from depression. Nursing homes are the worst, they have pennies a day to spend on food and activities are limited to a couple of times a week, meaning that she's left with television, eating bad food and staring out the window all day.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 13:59
          +1

          This is my worst nightmare for them, I'm sorry you're going through that.

          We can do better as a society, but hey, profits. (look at who Aveo was/is ultimately owned by - a Chinese billionaire family).

  • freefall101 on 24/07/2024 - 12:50

    Having worked in the finance team at an aged care provider, the difference in profitability between aged care and RV is insane. Aged care makes nothing, strictly regulated, incredibly difficult to meet staffing levels. Retirement villages are just super expensive rentals with better access to services and make a killing.

    However while it's expensive, it's still often cheaper than getting all those same services in house with a funding model that works well, which is why they're so popular. It's hard to remortgage a house to provide cash flow for expensive carers and such.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 13:38

      it's still often cheaper than getting all those same services in house with a funding model that works well, which is why they're so popular. It's hard to remortgage a house to provide cash flow for expensive carers and such.

      I'm confused, I thought that with RVs you're still using the same government available schemes like home care and you're paying for them the same way?

      At the moment they don't need a huge amount of care with what we are able to provide but I'm sure that time will come.

  • ihbh on 24/07/2024 - 14:18

    Assisted Living / Retirement Village

    What services are your parents in need of specifically? Cooking, cleaning, bathing, etc.? 70s is still very young, unless there are other factors other than the chemo.

    There are also independent living facilities. All the property maintenance is provided but you cook and clean for yourself and enjoy your own and the communal space.

    We have a friend at the Rose in Wahroonga - a bit exy but there is plenty of communal space and and it's beautiful. The sad thing is hardly anyone makes use of the communal space. Our friend is early 80; the couple were going to move into a 3 bedroom apartment but the wife passed away so the husband managed to change (before moving in) to a 2 bedroom apartment with courtyard.

    They would have stayed at home for as long as possible if it wasn't for all the dropping gum branches (maintenance aspect).

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 14:22

      What services are your parents in need of specifically? Cooking, cleaning, bathing, etc.? 70s is still very young, unless there are other factors other than the chemo.

      The chemo is for a cancer that has come back after 10 years that has fun things like lesions and causing fractures in bones.

      Once a week someone comes to help shower, and we're doing all the big stuff (cooking, mowing, cleaning).

      There are also independent living facilities. All the property maintenance is provided but you cook and clean for yourself and enjoy your own and the communal space.

      I feel like with those facilities the benefits aren't more than what we are already providing, so the costs don't make sense (at the moment).

  • brad1-8tsi on 24/07/2024 - 14:43
    +1

    Based on Mum (aged care - dementia wing); Dad (independent living - a 1 bedroom apartment with onsite monitoring) and MIL (independent living with meals and onsite monitoring) the prices were very high and it would have been cheaper to put the latter two in a luxury furnished apartment and paid for meal deliveries and a cleaner.

    In each case we paid ~$600k bond plus monthly fees and in each case the refund was between $450k-$550k with the longest stay being 18 month and the shortest being 1 week short of the cooling off period.

    If there is no choice then spend the money and get somewhere nice AND CLOSE TO WHERE YOU LIVE.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 24/07/2024 - 14:59

      Thanks.

      Yeah, the prices are insane. I just don't understand how the next generation is going to fund themselves (ourselves) in these programs without properties etc. Crazy.

      • brad1-8tsi on 26/07/2024 - 07:20

        Apparently there is a safety net of some sorts but if you are on the aged pension without a PPOR then the asset limit of $566k will be eaten up and your pension eaten in monthly fees so I don't see how that works.

        I didn't have much to do with the setup of any of the family member's aged care.

        Dad organised the financial side of Mum's high care situation (after being her carer for 10+ years). He also organised his own situation, which if I'd known the finances of I would have suggested some alternatives (because he hated the place, not the cost).

        I didn't get involved in the MILs as the 3 sisters were fighting among themselves and I didn't need to be part of that (one was basing their choice on the quality of the prints on the wall despite getting a crap star rating on the government web site).

        I was involved in the wrap-up which is why I know the figures,

        • coffeeinmyveins on 26/07/2024 - 09:08

          I didn't get involved in the MILs as the 3 sisters were fighting among themselves and I didn't need to be part of that (one was basing their choice on the quality of the prints on the wall despite getting a crap star rating on the government web site).

          Ugh, why is it that this happens?! we're going through the same process where a family member likes a very expensive facility "because of the garden" and is ignoring costs

          • brad1-8tsi on 27/07/2024 - 09:32

            @coffeeinmyveins: Money wasn't the concern. Quality of care was paramount.

            When we analysed the star ratings our preferred provider (we had used it for respite care) got a much better rating for staff training, experience and turnover. I assume because the turnover was lower due to spending money on wages rather than a $200 flower arrangement in the foyer and nice prints on the wall.

            Unfortunately one of the sisters was very persuasive to the mother so there was no point bringing logic to the table and she ended up in a 3.5 star establishment instead of 4 stars with the difference being staffing and client experience.

    • ihbh on 24/07/2024 - 15:54

      with the longest stay being 18 month and the shortest being 1 week short of the cooling off period

      You mean they passed away in this period? Generally, that's the only way they leave aged care.

      I read the average stay was around 2 years or so, so worth bearing this in mind.

      • brad1-8tsi on 26/07/2024 - 07:08

        Yes, they all passed. :-(

        You are correct. The average stay is about 18 months

  • screensaver on 26/07/2024 - 17:04
    -1

    This particular facility has a respite cottage which you can get for 65 a night with aged care code, up to 6 weeks per year, or maybe longer

  • Euphemistic on 26/07/2024 - 17:27

    Theres several ways of looking at things. Just consider that making the change out of the family home is difficult, but leaving it until they absolutely have to move out is even more difficult.

    If you can move to downsize first, its an oppotunity to reduce stress about home maintenance - especially if a retirement village type place. Its also a great oppotunity to cull years of accumulated junk rather than dealing with it when your parents are too frail to assist.

    Taking several steps over a decade or more can be better than going straight from the family home to high care.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 05/08/2024 - 08:59

      Taking several steps over a decade or more can be better than going straight from the family home to high care.

      Very good point and is what we have said to them should be the plan.

      its an oppotunity to reduce stress about home maintenance

      We thought that this wouldn't be a concern because we'd be doing it or having people take care of it, but it seems like the mere existence of these things causes stress. eg: they have a lawn and even though we mow it, the fact that they have a lawn causes them cognitive load issues.

      Its also a great oppotunity to cull years of accumulated junk r

      Another good point. They aren't hoarders, but there's definitely traits of it and everything has "sentimental value" to them. "oh we can't get rid of that couch, it's the last thing that auntie susie sat on". Ok so how's it going to fit in a smaller place? haha

  • screensaver on 26/07/2024 - 17:46
    -1

    From time to time I see free respite care offers so I had a look foryou, there is one, looks like Camden is their only NSW offer atm. 14 days free, you need age care assessment and code number https://www.estiahealth.com.au/carers-offer/#11025. there is another company but their offer expires July 31, however they may repeat it

  • fozzie on 03/08/2024 - 21:59

    I wouldn’t keep your parents in their current home. I would look into getting perhaps a villa in a retirement village. Once they’ll need full looking after it will be less traumatic. My mother in law recently moved into aged care. It was quite sudden as her health deteriorated quickly and abruptly. She is settling in and doesn’t like being in her home. If she was already in a retirement village it would had been less traumatic. Perhaps she could had been helped while still in her home. Now it’s too late and it’s very sad for me and my husband seeing what she’s going through. And of course devastating to her, even though she gets washed, looked after and fed.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 05/08/2024 - 09:00
      +1

      Having looked at the costs involved in retirement villages, even they don't want to go into them. They would rather downsize to a smaller ground floor apartment with the levels of assistance they require, until such time they need to go into aged care.

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